Laluzi
Posts: 456
1/8/2014
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Well, the rewards for the POSI 'Unfinished Business' actions have been randomized for a while now. That's fine - it does serve to make things more realistic. You're not going to come away with an even 100 rats every time you pilfer a stall; you're not going to find the exact same amount of prisoner's honey among abandoned stage props. But the ranges are so wide they warp back into unrealistic again, I'd argue. Your experienced thief, stealing one rat from a stall and then calling it a day? To say nothing of the effect it has on the player.
For instance, take this, from this morning;
A bit of a 'Well, then' moment. Sadly, not the first time this has happened to me. We've all been there.
I don't know about everyone else, but I'd personally be happier if the range for something - like the aforementioned - was 50-250, or even 100-200, than the apparent 1-300. Getting high values feels nice, certainly, but when you happen across the lowest possible values, you feel downright cheated for your actions. Even if the average comes out to be the same (or it should, generally speaking), you still get a pretty deep feeling of disappointment when you get a 1 PPA yield from something that used to be a flat 100. Note the following, which happened to NiteBrite (and keep in mind that this is a 5-action option);
I felt annoyed when I only got maybe 80 silk scraps and 10 surface silk out of this one. But this? Eesh.
Anyway... your thoughts? Agree, disagree? Suggestions?
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Mercer - an enigmatic and brutal individual. Frightfully strong. Has even more frightful manners.
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Roland Jones
Posts: 32
1/8/2014
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Theus wrote:
OPG wrote:
The problem with making it random, though, is that chance is the antithesis of long-term ... grinding.
This is incorrect. Over long time horizons, randomness doesn't matter. Buy-and-hold, etc.
If you take a look at the responses, it seems clear to me that the reliability of Unfinished Business has been intentionally diminished. The fitness for some purposes remains, but now people have incentive to look elsewhere for reliability. It's like Fidgeting Writer. It's very good over the long term, but some people choose to avoid it in exchange for a more consistent return over the short term.
Instead of saying "This is less desirable, we should inform the designers so they can change it back." we could be saying "This is less desirable, the developers made it that way intentionally, we should explore why and adjust as needed."
Several problems here. For one, you're either misapplying the Law of Large Numbers or mistaken as to the values involved in Unfinished Business; your earlier post suggests that you seem to think that in the long run these would be more profitable, but they aren't, as the mean (and what the Law of Large Numbers pushes towards) is actually an echo per action. That's below the short and long-term average for other places. Unless you need a small amount of something and get lucky, Unfinished Business (the randomized ones, at least) is not the way to go now.
Secondly, you're avoiding the main point; the main complaint isn't that there's a spread, it's that the spread is far too wide, with a low end so low that it can achieve results too terrible to get anywhere else. Unfinished Business isn't the only place this happens either; the Rooftop Shack's option for Making Waves can (and has, frustratingly) give a single point of MW in exchange for a moderately expensive item and quite a bit of Connected: Society, and unlike Unfinished Business you can't even trust in the LLN because you get the card infrequently and are unlikely to have many Favours in High Places unless you have the right Profession. The spread can be reduced to a point where it's still arguably worthwhile, and still have the same mean, without being scrapped entirely.
Thirdly, just because something's the developers' intention doesn't mean it's working that way. Notability, for example, was something you could try for whenever you got the Amanuensis to show up, resulting in someone abusing probability and making numerous attempts at extremely low chances and hitting the cap in less than a week; probability-wise, it was never favorable to grind towards higher percentages. The dev response to this was to institute a minimum MW requirement for Notability attempts, to prevent this kind of behavior. However, it did not address the problem; making minimum-MW attempts was still the most favorable course of action, it just required more grinding to attempt, and it still had the illusion that trying for higher percentages was better when in fact it would still likely require many, many more actions than the low-MW attempts. This ended up being changed to a flat MW requirement to advance Notability, addressing the problems and making a much less painful game experience, thanks in part to user feedback.
This is the same thing. Users are responding to a frustrating mechanic (the possibility of getting effectively nothing for what is given up, be it items or actions, on what is ostensibly a successful attempt at something). The devs may end up agreeing, as with the Notability incident, or they may not. Either way, this sort of discourse is valuable, and while you might disagree with the point saying "well the devs want it so it should be" is attempting to shut down important discussion.
edited by Roland Jones on 1/8/2014
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friendshipranger
Posts: 274
1/9/2014
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If the yield is going to be so low- 1 secret, for example, I'd at least appreciate tailored snippet. Like, if there were several success prompts, the last of which denoting some pyrrhic victory, it would be a lot easier to swallow. Because its weird when the text makes it seem like you won big, when you get a tiny tiny reward for a ostensibly good amount of time spent by your character.
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Locrian
Posts: 31
1/8/2014
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I have to say I agree that this change has been an unpleasant one. Granted I'm never a fan of combining luck checks with grinding, and preferred the consistent (save rare successes) results anyway. Perhaps that is an uncommonly curmudgeonly view, but in any case I do think the breadth of the range of results is unnecessarily painful, especially for the multiple-action options.
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Snowskeeper
Posts: 575
1/8/2014
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Theus wrote:
I guess I have the opposing viewpoint. Highly variable results allow math-savvy people to exploit the law of large numbers, while driving people to also explore other pathways or stories. If the most optimal path was always the easiest and most attractive, no one would do anything but.
There's a reason Unfinished Business is only available to PoSI; it's intended for high-level grinding. It serves no other purpose. The fact that it's extremely unpredictable is counter-productive.
You might also want to look up optimal, because by its definition the most optimal path should be the easiest and most attractive--otherwise it's not the optimal path.
To suggest a fix rather than poke holes in someone else's: maybe the chances should be based on the value of the item in question, rather than your level. More valuable items should net you more cash if you get lucky, but the chances should be higher of getting screwed over; lower-value items could be a more stable source of income, but less potentially lucrative in the short run. The range for, say, rats could be 100-300; souls could be 1-200. You're making more on average with Souls, (Snowskeeper's A Nice Guy Math Corner: 1/3 chance of netting 200 pence for rats, 1/2 chance of netting 200 pence for Souls) but there's a bigger chance of getting screwed over.
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S.F., a midnight midnighter and invisible eminence. Impossible to locate them, personally, but there are dead drops and agents.
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Laluzi
Posts: 456
1/8/2014
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Well, I like the randomness of Seeking Curios because it's thematic. You're scrounging for treasure in a ruined part of the city - getting consistent rewards doesn't make an awful lot of sense. The airs-changing options also help lend that air of authenticity to your trawls.
Having said that, coming out of 'Explore the darker corners' with one Whispered Secret was always a bit of a downer. :x But at least I wasn't losing an Appalling Secret for it. Or when you spend three actions to talk to the Dean, and you get single digits of everything as a return. I don't think anyone particularly likes getting the worst end of the RNG. It's just that the worst end is much more severe when your ranges span from 0(median) to 2(median), as opposed to maybe .5(median) to 1.5(median), or even .3(median) to 1.7(median). And the wider the range is (1-20 versus 1-300), the more cheated you feel when you get a very low result.
I think a good example of random results is the Primordial Shriek bundle of oddities. The range there is 20-80. The median here is, of course, 50. Even when you hit 20, though, it's not too bad; it's the lowest result, sure, and you're quite aware you could have done better, but you still got 40 pence worth of Shrieks, and you can do something with that. And you're very happy when you get 80 Shrieks of out if, of course, because whoo, 80 Shrieks! Now, this range is .4(median) to 1.6(median). If it was ~0(median) to 2(median), or 1-100 Shrieks - well, I'd be annoyed if I got a single Shriek fron a bundle. I think getting 100 would really have the same impact on the player as getting 80; maybe a little better, but not as stark as the difference between getting 1 and 20.
Also, I'm going to repeat what Snowskeeper said and point out that Unfinished Business was created for POSI item grinding. Seeking Curios is not.
edited by Laluzi on 1/8/2014
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Mercer - an enigmatic and brutal individual. Frightfully strong. Has even more frightful manners.
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OPG
Posts: 387
1/8/2014
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Theus wrote:
I guess I have the opposing viewpoint. Highly variable results allow math-savvy people to exploit the law of large numbers, while driving people to also explore other pathways or stories. If the most optimal path was always the easiest and most attractive, no one would do anything but. The problem with this is that Unfinished Business was rarely the optimal path, instead the most reliable. The only thing it was really good for was expansive grinds of particular materials. The problem with making it random, though, is that chance is the antithesis of long-term or high-stakes grinding. This is why high-tier Relicker items are weighed beyond their echo value, why Yachts/Clippers/Zubmarines are so prized, and why Tears of the Bazaar/Master's Blood is so infuriatingly hard to obtain. UB isn't even that good for echo grinding, either, because at that level you could just go with Pygmalion or Boxfuls of Intrigue for a better E/A profit.
When I get 2 foxfire candles from Veilgarden I strangle one of my housepets. When I get 187 candles from Veilgarden I don't care because I'm only making up for a loss I either have or will suffer.
edited by OPG on 1/8/2014
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overpoweredginger, an irresistible, magnificent, midnight and sagacious gentleman.
A Fallen London Roleplay Community exists. Contrary to popular belief, Richard Nixon is not involved.
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Snowskeeper
Posts: 575
1/9/2014
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friendshipranger wrote:
If the yield is going to be so low- 1 secret, for example, I'd at least appreciate tailored snippet. Like, if there were several success prompts, the last of which denoting some pyrrhic victory, it would be a lot easier to swallow. Because its weird when the text makes it seem like you won big, when you get a tiny tiny reward for a ostensibly good amount of time spent by your character.
"You contacted one of your less reliable sources for help in deciphering the secret. Twelve hours later, after hearing about his two-year-old child for the seventeenth time, you finally manage to excuse yourself--the only thing of value you've learned is his wife's 'secret' recipe for beef stew, and at the rate he gossips you doubt that will be of value for much longer. Your appalling secret certainly won't be."
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Laluzi
Posts: 456
1/8/2014
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Theus wrote:
Instead of saying "This is less desirable, we should inform the designers so they can change it back." we could be saying "This is less desirable, the developers made it that way intentionally, we should explore why and adjust as needed."
If users are unhappy with something, there's no harm in telling the developers that, as long as it's done politely and rationally. If they come to us and say 'yeah, we did this on purpose, here's why', then that's that. But there's also a chance that they didn't mean for it to turn out quite like this - and Failbetter Games has always shown a very courteous reception to player opinion in the past.
Besides, I'm not saying things should be changed back - my beef is that the ranges are a little too wide. If they were narrower, I personally would be less frustrated. I made this thread to see if other people agreed or not, or what they'd like to see out of it. I see absolutely no harm in this; I'm rather puzzled why you think that we have no reason to bring it up.
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Mercer - an enigmatic and brutal individual. Frightfully strong. Has even more frightful manners.
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Roland Jones
Posts: 32
1/9/2014
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Well, with few exceptions I don't think people grind Unfinished Business for money. It's because they need specific items to create advanced PoSI stuff, and Unfinished Business is the best source. Sometimes effectively the only source, given how other storylets tend to get get locked off, either because your stats are too high now or because you advanced the plot (and in some cases have been kicked out of the area entirely).
There's no practical or effective alternative to UB in many cases, and making UB worse doesn't push people elsewhere, it just makes it hard for people to get what they need. As with the minimum Making Waves requirement for Notability (the old one I mean, not the new way; as established I am a fan of how it is now, generally speaking), it doesn't alter anyone's behavior because it does not address the issue causing people to behave that way.
edited by Roland Jones on 1/9/2014
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Polybius
Posts: 33
1/8/2014
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Agreed, When I get two souls for 5 actions in unfinished business in spite i feel like breaking the monitor.
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RandomWalker
Posts: 948
1/8/2014
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I have to agree that it does seem like too broad a range. Getting such a pitiful return on an investment feels like being cheated, and pulls you out of the game.
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Inky Petrel
Posts: 370
1/8/2014
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Just chiming in here to agree that the range is far too wide now. I don't bother with the "unfinished business" storylets anymore.
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Re: Fallen London, please don't invite me to things or send me things, I'm only on occasionally, so you will waste your candle  Thank you.
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Richard
Posts: 304
1/8/2014
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MidnightVoyager wrote:
Catherine Raymond wrote:
I don't think the non-power users will care that much about how reliable the random rewards are, because they are less likely to be interested in grinding large quantities of commodities for particular rewards any way. They will check in periodically for new content when they run out of storylets they haven't seen, and that's about it. (Of course, I could be wrong....)
But what about when their ambition updates and they end up having to grind for some sort of POSI item and now all the ways of getting things have changed? That's gonna be a hell of a kick to the head when they get there. Hello! Non-power-user here.
And, honestly, we're fine. I think I'm up to date with my ambition, and I've never ground anything to progress it, except perhaps in the very early days. My character is hilariously impoverished by the standards of this forum - he doesn't even have a four-card lodging - but you don't actually need much expensive stuff to get on with the principal storylines.
Also, bling gets more affordable at a startling rate. Fallen London has a weird kind of runaway inflation, where rewards spiral upwards but the price of anything that already exists stays exactly the same. So if you want to be among the first to have something, you need to grind for it - but if you're not that fussed, you can just bumble around and it falls into your lap after a while.
Cheers
Richard
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Rhoanna
Posts: 13
1/9/2014
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Theus wrote:
Unfinished Business has been changed (intentionally) by the developers to add a wide spread for rewards without lowering the average reward value. From this we can infer the reason is not based on economic balance, but rather to alter player behavior. Ewan C. gave a good explanation above.
I am saying that the intention of the developers was to lower the number of people grinding on this set of storylets.
Except changing it to more random doesn't affect its utility for grinding (either items or money); you're playing the storylet enough that an individual repetition doesn't matter. It might affect its perceived utility, but no one other than the developers has any data on whether it does that. It does, however, affect the storylet's utility if you need, say, 50 souls and want to get it done in as reliably few actions as possible.
What people are saying is that the small rewards are unsatisfying, both narratively and player experience-wise. I do agree that it's odd when the text makes it sound like you made out well, but you in fact only got 1 item. And the player frustration... there's no final reward as there is normally when you succeed after failing. The text is the same next time, as you already "succeeded", you're not advancing any story, you've probably played the storylet plenty of times before, and just want the items.
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Fhoenix
Posts: 602
1/10/2014
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Laluzi wrote:
I do agree with somebody else's suggestion here - it would be nice if there was a 'failure' storylet of sorts that happened when you got a very low result.
That would be overdesigned, I think. There is a failure text already. It is shown when you actually fail. The reward generator should simply work in a way that does not make you feel like you failed, when you have succeeded (at your check).
For example, off the top of my head, the reward for Unfinished Business could be between 100 pence per action and 100 + Quality/10
This way it's random, scales with your Quality and you will never feel cheated.
There are rare successes. There should not be no rare failures, or at least those should not play, when you pass your check.
Of course Alexis probably has thought about the solution, I proposed just now. And as he says, there is a Reason it works like it works. It's a pity, he is not going to disclose it, I have enjoyed reading his explanations before and learned some things from them. Though of course, I understand, why he is not engaging anymore.
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Laluzi
Posts: 456
1/11/2014
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I wouldn't call this thread vicious or anarchic? I've seen much worse, certainly. I mean, we got off topic with the nomen, but people here have been reasonably civil and expressed their thoughts without trying to step on toes.
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Mercer - an enigmatic and brutal individual. Frightfully strong. Has even more frightful manners.
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Ewan C.
Posts: 675
1/8/2014
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As a footnote, the psychological effect of a wide range is well-understood, and I don't doubt known to the devs: humans are loss-averse, and in this context that means that the cost of a below-average reward is greater than the benefit of an above-average one. It's easy to demonstrate that people will, on average, choose a lower-mean reward if it has increased reliability (i.e. smaller variance). So what's being reported is (my guess) very likely an intended consequence, whether or not it's one that you enjoy.
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MidnightVoyager
Posts: 858
1/8/2014
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Catherine Raymond wrote:
RandomWalker wrote:
Without developer input we have no idea why they changed the UB rewards. We can feedback and say 'we don't like it because low rewards are more likely to cause aggravation than high rewards exhilaration' but in the end, it's up to them.
I presume that the devs have access to the number of times people use the UB options and can tell if the number has changed. Presumably they don't want it to be too popular, but want it to be considered a viable option. Their call.
The danger, as I see it, is that it will cause frustration in the non-power users. The people who don't read the forum or scour the wikis. They want something to achieve a goal and will go to UB rather than try and find another source. They could well get frustrated by a short series of bad rolls and look elsewhere for entertainment. No idea how valid that worry is.
I don't think the non-power users will care that much about how reliable the random rewards are, because they are less likely to be interested in grinding large quantities of commodities for particular rewards any way. They will check in periodically for new content when they run out of storylets they haven't seen, and that's about it. (Of course, I could be wrong....)
But what about when their ambition updates and they end up having to grind for some sort of POSI item and now all the ways of getting things have changed? That's gonna be a hell of a kick to the head when they get there.
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Flyte
Administrator
Posts: 671
1/8/2014
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I've given this some thought. I'll try to post something substantive tomorrow, when (I devoutly hope) I won't be stuck in an airport. Just two things for now. First, going by past experience, suggestions which require significant modifications to the underlying tech, particularly in the direction of mathematical complexity, are unlikely to be enthusiastically received. So I don't think proposing that rewards should be normally distributed (or weighted in some more ad hoc way) will do much good. Second, I think some of the existing mechanics which generate random rewards are much more successful than others: Seeking Curios, for instance. Given that randomised rewards have become pretty much standard in new content, it might be worth talking about the ones we like as well, and why.
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RandomWalker
Posts: 948
1/8/2014
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Without developer input we have no idea why they changed the UB rewards. We can feedback and say 'we don't like it because low rewards are more likely to cause aggravation than high rewards exhilaration' but in the end, it's up to them.
I presume that the devs have access to the number of times people use the UB options and can tell if the number has changed. Presumably they don't want it to be too popular, but want it to be considered a viable option. Their call.
The danger, as I see it, is that it will cause frustration in the non-power users. The people who don't read the forum or scour the wikis. They want something to achieve a goal and will go to UB rather than try and find another source. They could well get frustrated by a short series of bad rolls and look elsewhere for entertainment. No idea how valid that worry is.
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Kade Carrion (an_ocelot)
Posts: 1372
1/8/2014
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I don't mind variable, but it literally makes no sense to break an Appalling Secret down into a _single_ Whispered Secret (and so forth).
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Suitov
Posts: 89
1/11/2014
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Yes, I was taken aback a little to find one of the creators interpreted it as a "rant thread" when I, and I suspect many of the other contributors, certainly didn't intend it as such.
Mostly the long posts were debates about how people would alter the mechanics, really.
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Snowskeeper
Posts: 575
1/12/2014
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OPG wrote:
Laluzi wrote:
I wouldn't call this thread vicious or anarchic? I've seen much worse, certainly. I mean, we got off topic with the nomen, but people here have been reasonably civil and expressed their thoughts without trying to step on toes. Suitov wrote:
Yes, I was taken aback a little to find one of the creators interpreted it as a "rant thread" when I, and I suspect many of the other contributors, certainly didn't intend it as such.
Mostly the long posts were debates about how people would alter the mechanics, really. Snowskeeper wrote:
We didn't interpret it that way either. We certainly didn't mean our post that way. My comment was intentionally hyperbolic. I was merely pointing out the irony of comparing the title (A Minor Complaint) to the relatively major posts.
In any case, my post has been edited appropriately.
When you call something vicious and anarchic and don't leave any indication that you're not being serious, people are going to take it seriously.
We understand what you were saying, and we would probably have said something similar under different circumstances; we just wish you'd been a little more careful with it. The Internet is a notoriously difficult place to get sarcasm across; that's why the =P face was invented.
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S.F., a midnight midnighter and invisible eminence. Impossible to locate them, personally, but there are dead drops and agents.
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Suitov
Posts: 89
1/10/2014
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Roland Jones wrote:
Well, with few exceptions I don't think people grind Unfinished Business for money. It's because they need specific items to create advanced PoSI stuff, and Unfinished Business is the best source. Sometimes effectively the only source, given how other storylets tend to get get locked off, either because your stats are too high now or because you advanced the plot (and in some cases have been kicked out of the area entirely).
That's precisely what I'm doing and it's maddening, quite honestly. I feel like I'm being penalised because I need to grind these particular items (Cryptic Clues at the moment; I can't find a steadier source than eavesdropping in Spite), and I can't plan around using a particular number of actions because it so often happens I need about 40 more and my last try nets 3.
A smaller range would dull the pain significantly, though if FBG want to include more storylets with randomised rewards (as seems to be the trend), the various Unfinished Businesses seem a strange choice since they're themed around being very good at things.
If I succeed at a challenge, I should get a worthwhile reward, otherwise that's what I'd call a failure. And the challenge is straightforward. I shouldn't be failing.
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Alexis Kennedy
Posts: 1374
1/10/2014
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1/ Feedback on randomised rewards: we hear your feelings, we'll feed it back into our thinking, I'd rather not engage with rant threads so I won't comment further.
2/ Noman: can you guys move to a separate thread to talk about this? There is an Arty Point behind the Noman content; there are interesting things to be said, I think, about whether I succeeded or failed in that effect. (I probably won't weigh in on that, either, because I think the author belongs behind the curtain (EDIT: in this case), but I will say that I didn't write it as a 'nice little earner' or there'd be, you know, Fate branches on Noman's Progress.)
edited by Alexis on 1/10/2014
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salirsalisco
Posts: 38
1/9/2014
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OPG wrote:
When I get 2 foxfire candles from Veilgarden I strangle one of my housepets. When I get 187 candles from Veilgarden I don't care because I'm only making up for a loss I either have or will suffer.
edited by OPG on 1/8/2014
This is also my feeling about randomized rewards in some storylets.
Also, it seems to me that, especially at high stats, the return in terms of PPA flattens out quite dramatically; up to maybe 120 in each stat it was possible to get roughly one penny's worth per stat point, with each action. Above that level, there's no consistently profitable option for grinding; I'm still at the same PPA that I had months ago. Right now I'm grinding secrets (for expeditions in the Quarter and for Searing Enigmas) and I'm stuck with the frustrating Seeking Curious - whose challenges have been straightforward for me for a long time now, and whose returns don't really seem to be worth all the actions I'm spending.
edited by salirsalisco on 1/9/2014
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OPG
Posts: 387
1/12/2014
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Yeah, that's a problem of mine. As far as I can tell, I'm the only person I know capable of detecting sarcasm over the internet. As a result, I assume others do the same, and then I usually get banned from forums. (Also I avoid using emote-faces because when I do I feel like I lost part of my soul)
I'll try and be better, everybody.
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overpoweredginger, an irresistible, magnificent, midnight and sagacious gentleman.
A Fallen London Roleplay Community exists. Contrary to popular belief, Richard Nixon is not involved.
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Gillsing
Posts: 1203
1/12/2014
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Snowskeeper wrote:
... that's why the =P face was invented. I always interpreted that one as "exasperated", what with the tongue hanging out at the side of the mouth in some kind of bleh expression. But apparently it's supposed to be a raspberry?
And just to throw something in that is at least connected to the thread topic, I have kept record over the last 53 times I've played The mechanics of progress, and here are the results:
First 33 times, with Watchful ranging from 161 to 240 (avg 204.5): 3 – 204 Cryptic Clues (avg 95.4)
Total: 3148 Cryptic Clues with an accumulated Watchful of 6747
Last 20 times, with Watchful 241: 16 – 230 Cryptic Clues (avg 128.6)
Total: 2572 Cryptic Clues with an accumulated Watchful of 4820
Together: 5720 Cryptic Clues in 53 attempts with accumulated Watchful 11567 -> 0,4945 Cryptic Clues per level of Watchful
So it really does seem as if there is an even distribution between 1 and Watchful, much like I surmised when at first I never got the 200+ that others were reporting.
As for the randomness, I am fine with it as long as I can trust that it's a good deal on average. Though it would be sweet if the game could just be open with these things so I wouldn't have to jot down every CP lost or gained, or in these case, do my own statistical analysis. It's so old-school, and takes time that I should have spent reading webcomics. But when I have ten minutes between every new action and card, I have time to do these things. Apparently. =Þ
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deadcrystal
Posts: 125
1/12/2014
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:P is sticking your tongue out of your mouth. Which encompasses a surprising range of feeling.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Alice~Darkmoor
A determined Dolphin - Alexis
Great Grind Empress, and Knife and Candle Queen
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Gillsing
Posts: 1203
1/9/2014
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Good one! Except that does actually sound like the kind of text you'd get when failing, not when succeeding. As pointed out earlier in the thread: "ostensibly a success"
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Fhoenix
Posts: 602
1/9/2014
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The random result is kind of almost okay for actions with a cost of one, because the law of big numbers will ensure you get around 1 echo per action when grinding (there is still this annoying situation when you are short of 1 echo of items for the conversion, and you only have one action left, and this action gives you less then 1 echo, because screw you player, so you have to sit at the Unfinished Business screen waiting for more actions).
It becomes worse as the cost of action increases. Even at two actions it sucks to get 20-50 Jade several times in a row. Sure later RNG will give you 400 several times later, but that later is not now. For now you are in the red and can't afford to go on an expedition for several more hours. At five actions per result you can waste your whole pool and gain virtually nothing for it.
Still, you know, it could be worse. It could be much worse. *remembers the Burning Enigma conversion RNG and shudders*
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My Character
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