Alexis Kennedy
Posts: 1374
12/9/2013
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(Meta thread! because I don't want to pollute the other one further, I'm hoping we may get a domesticated version of Mr Eaten live some day, and if so I'll delete all the shouty from the bottom of the thread and it can live on.)
I've been digging into the database and am confident in making the following statements.
FIrstly, the customer who issued (and then retracted) a legal threat has never played the content in question. I'm not clear if their message was malicious or fraudulent, but I am no longer taking them seriously.
Secondly, there are no customers who (a) have spent Nex while playing the (bugged) Mr Eaten Winking Isle content and (b) would like a refund. (Edit: Nitebrite is happy for me to add that he 'wouldn't dream of' asking for a refund, which I sincerely appreciate.)
I'm sufficiently confident to make a point of being public on this. If I'm mistaken and you spent Nex on the content in question and would like a refund, please post the request below: I won't delete any on-topic posts and I will honour all refund requests. Alternatively, if you'd like to keep it private, make the request to purchases@failbettergames.com.
edited by Alexis on 12/9/2013
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Alexander Feld
Posts: 348
12/9/2013
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Ewan C. wrote:
Halle-frarking-lujiah. I don't Seek and expect that I never will; but this would have been a crying shame. Watching SMEN from the sidelines is fascinating (not to mention heartening in its insights into humanity!)
[I had a brief impulse to fake-email a refund request and sign it Mr Eaten. But I couldn't create something sufficiently witty, alas.]
An accountant will not be postponed indefinitely. The customer is always right, when he is an eldritch being of unfathomable spite.
...He does seem to have eaten his receipt, however.
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I am a star-gazer, story-eater, and a smelter of words.
I filch hidden things from hidden places, to hide once more in my dark cabinet of curiosities
Alexander Feld, the mad, damned, lord of seekers.
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NiteBrite
Posts: 1019
12/11/2013
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Now that I’ve actually had some sleep and time to think I can see the big picture now, what happened, what was supposed to happen, and where it all went horribly wrong. And honestly? I can’t help but laugh.
This post is going to be a winking island spoilers heavy post so I am including spoiler tags and color text to hid spoilers within the spoiler, but hopefully it will be very informative to those who wish to know. Be warned, it discusses mechanics and can shred a lot of the mystery around the island. It’s my understanding that the way winking island was supposed to work is
[spoiler] 1. A player gains or loses a random amount of fasting and meditating (F&M) between 1 and 10 on a 10 action storylet. Win or lose, the player gains menace.
2. When menace hits 8, the island kicks the player off and removes all of their F&M. (this not happening properly was the bug).
3. There is no way while on the island to reduce ones menace. (this is where I and alexander went wrong. Alexander by exploiting Christmas cards. I by exploiting stored social actions.)
4. A player, having discovered that high menace destroys all progress will learn to make small trips to the island, gain a bit of menace, then leave to heal. A successful completion of winking island will have the player making several trips back … and forthigan (the candle name is a clever pun ahaha XD).
5. High value scraps items can boost progress making the journey faster and more assured. Uncapped items like veils-velvet give minor amounts of progress but no menace. Other items give more progress, but can only be used in specific ranges of F&M.
So that’s what –should- have happened. Where did it all go wrong. The first issue was a bug. A very minor bug that actually, if it had been known in advance would have been extremely beneficial to the player, but left unknown created a situation where
the player did not know the ill effects of menace gain on the island until after they had invested a substantial amount of turns. The bug that the menace kick did not activate when it should have had to do with the unique way linked storylets were set up on the island. Instead of the player learning their lesson right away after 2 to 3 actions, one could be several hundred actions into progressing F&M before it randomly kicked in and booted them. It’s a lot less of a wound to lose 7 or 10 progress learning how the place work than it is to lose 40 to 50.
But even still, there was a backup safety system that should have prevented players from investing too many actions without learning the dangers of menace:
The menace gaining F&M storylets lock at either nightmares 8 or wounds 8. Since there is no natural way to reduce either of these menaces while on the island, this in effect locks the player out of wasting actions in the event the menace kick fails to trigger. You can think of the nightmares and wounds locks as a sort of fail safe or last line of defense. If the player does get locked out of making actions, and the menace kick does not occur, they still are not trapped forever. Time the healer will eventually remove their menace and let them leave or keep playing. But since time the healer only comes once a week, it’s not a major break in the ‘rapidly learn the dangers of menace’ mechanic.
Haha, now here is the part where some of the blame for how this thing exploded comes back to me and alexander and other players, completely independent of the content design:
while on the island, Alexander actively encouraged players to send him christmas cards. Christmas cards are a temporary, seasonal item that reduce menace drastically, and raise stats a lot too. It’s an exploit that they work even on winking island. An exploit that disabled the menace/wounds lockout fail safe mentioned above. For Alexander, this was a great boon, for he never did accidentally trigger the nightmares kick. He never had need to learn of the dangers of menace. I don’t know if he used other menace reduction methods such as social actions, but I suspect so.
When I went to winking island, I did a similar thing. Not with christmas cards, I wasn’t there long enough for that, but with social actions. I used stored wounds heals and nightmares confessions to lower my menaces while on the island, when I shouldn’t have been able to reduce menace at all. In both my case and alexander’s this was a serious break in the mechanics. It meant we could go longer without ever learning the most basic lesson that menace is really bad. At most, it just seemed to be a minor nuisance/time delayer.
To compound the issue further nex was used. Not the smartest idea when it comes to eaten content. This is the part everyone here already knows. Actions were refreshed. There was a sense of desperate urgency. Rumors of time limits. Literal angry mobs frothing at the mouth every second that someone held the card just a little longer than needed, and the overall impression from alexander’s roaring success that the whole thing was fairly painless and easy. I can say with confidence now that all of those rumors, impressions, and perceived advantages were false. If anything christmas cards and extra actions were a grave danger. The danger being they prolonged a bad situation, a situation of ignorance of very real dangers. There was no time limit. No one should have been angry over people taking their time. Wasted, foolish energy and panic is all that was. Haha, I have to say I was under tremendous stress because of all of these things (especially the deadline rumor) and that, along with the high action limit, drove me to foolhardy nex expenditures and gifting. A pity, but totally understandable. I wasn’t the only person there to do this either. Probably 3 out of five people who went spent fate while there. More on the number of visitors will be discussed below.
I think, if the rumor of a time limit had been dispelled a little earlier, and if winking island mechanics had discouraged nex abuse (such as working of short timer living stories like in rat sending simulator 2k13) the volatile emotions that made this thing explode so grandly could have been greatly diffused. I think that’s the situation we are in now. Everything exploded, people are taking a step back now and heads are cooling now that we know better. There are good reasons, I am sure that this didn’t happen sooner. Perhaps to maintain an air of mystery. Perhaps to drive hype to a fever pitch. We’ll never know, but the lesson here is mania is a fire, and if it’s not controlled completely it’s only a matter of time until someone gets burned.
Compounding the issue further
when the menace kick finally did trigger, well into my journey on winking island, it looped on itself. This was a bug, perhaps even, the same bug with linked storylets that prevented it from triggering earlier. This looping made it feel wrong. Like it shouldn’t have happened. Since the text is similar to that of getting sent to the royal beth, I had assumed I accidentally triggered getting sent there and broke a thing. It’s terrible to lose progress. Its worse to lose progress to something that feels and looks wrong. That looks like a bug. It’s even worse when that happens long, long after it should have.
So I was blindsided. What should have been a light slap on the wrist became a death blow to the heart. And I went into meltdown. I couldn’t think straight, I couldn’t anything. Utter panic and chaos set in as my friends had to calm me down enough to remember that you can use a goldfish to lower nightmares. That was good enough to get me off the island. But it was too late for my materials. I had given up my profession as a midnighter to become a poet, for fear of needing to rapidly restats
no stats were lost on accepting the card
Because I had gotten to high levels of fasting and meditating with no problems, I expended my veils-velvet. An act I would not have done until after learning the dangers of menace if everything had worked as intended (and I hadn’t exploited social actions). I lost all the fate I spent attempting to rush because of the rumor mill and general hysteria of the masses about time limits. I had nothing and it left me reeling. So that’s why I posted such crazed and distressed messages to the boards. Friends and colleges who hold me in respect and high regard swooped in to console and defend me, but that just made things explode further.
And that’s the honest truth of what happened on winking island. You would think I would be mad about bugs and errors in gameplay, but honestly I am laughing now. I was as much the engineer of my own demise as the bug was haha.
It’s like having a gas stove with a broken auto-igniter. Gas slowly fills the room and it keeps trying to strike. Eventually it works and causes a large fireball. That’s what the
menace kick linked storylet failuire bug
Did. It took little fires and made them big.
The christmas cards and social action exploits were akin to turning up the gas flow the stove isn’t lighting. Using nex was like ripping the pipes out of the walls haha. Of course that was a bad idea. I didn’t know at the time, but stepping back it’s comically foolhardy.
Oh man, “stove won’t light, better rip the pipes out of the walls :v” –NiteBrite quote of the year. You can’t say I am not foolish. In fact, I was selected for receiving the card because I am extremely foolish. The most foolhardy fool of all the seekers. And that’s why I can say, yes, I was satisfied with the winking island content. Folks wanted a show, and I think I gave them their monies worth (not literal money, its a figure speech) by exploding into a fantastic firework. I can only imagine the look on Alexis’s face as the tiger see this massive gas cloud billowing out of NiteBrite’s house right before the big boom 
My apologies, Alexis, and the rest of my fellow seekers. I blew up the SMEN-ence lab by being too reckless. It’s a shame whoever saw this mess tried to swoop in and prey on it with unfounded legal threats. That was just the icing on the cake. While everything is exploded, director of the SMEN-ences, Alexis has wisely closed the lab for rebuilding. It makes sense. Everything is on fire still, give it a little time to heal. It can be rebuilt and safeties can be implemented to prevent this from happening again (I particularly like the short living story timer suggestion). I hope all shall be well again in my aftermath, and that SMEN opens once again. I may have blown up, but I still love it so <3
Oh, and I would be remiss to forget the others. I may have been the epicenter, of this explosion, but others were caught in my wake due to
the card duplication bug. When Alexander was giving up his card, he came up with a mad plan. He would send the card and have me accept after he landed on the island. He wanted to see what would happen.
Alexis had anticipated such a mad strategy. Being on the island without the card should have triggered an auto-kick story. But that didn’t happen to alexander. He landed safely, unawares that he now had two cards after sending it to me, rather than one. I in turn, returned home after exploding, to lick my wounds and heal. I was in a right state, and unfit to return to the island so I passed the card along to my chosen next in line, Dolan.
Dolan, was a controversial choice. Folks from the pact don’t like him much, but I know him well enough from K&C and chat that I knew I could trust him to stick to a plan. He was prepared, in a similar manner as me, and he had three of the high value items to cash in. The desire for rare text and the knowledge he could be trusted and that he was prepared to a similar level as I was were deciding factors in this choice. He legitimately received the card from me then went on to the island.
It was at this time I noticed I not only still had the card, but that I had two. I passed it on again, to see what would happen. It duplicated the card, confirming my suspicions. So I asked the person I sent the card to to wait. The card could have been a bug but with SMEN content, its hard to tell. Arguably, it could have been intended to duplicate all along, making the infighting and rage and popularity contests all comically unnecessary all along. Haha, that would have been great. A total troll on the part of Alexis. I sent a duplicated card to spacemarine (who was asleep) as a teasing joke since I knew he couldn’t accept for a week due to candle curious. Unfortunately, it turns out it was a bug. Words were misunderstood on forums posts between me and Alexis. This lead to people on the island, including dolan, who should have legitimately had the original card, getting booted, as what should have happened to alexander when he first attempted his silly card passing plan. I can understand dolan feeling cheated and asking for a refund. For all he knew, he had a legitimate card and was kicked for no reason. This was my fault! I am sorry to have caused this incident by not recognizing the duplication as a bug proper and not an intended act sooner. You were caught in my error, and that wasn’t right. Alexis, probably, at that point had no idea where the card legitimately belonged. This is my speculation as to why I kept the cards and no one else did. And that’s why others suffered in the aftermath of my explosion.
And so, that’s the entire story of everything, at least, from my perspective. I am really sorry to have caused so much trouble and chaos. I like to think of this as a hard earned lesson in being reckless with SMEN and content boundaries. I share my story, in hopes that others will learn from me not to be so foolhardy. Apologies to everyone again. [/spoiler]
edited by NiteBrite on 12/11/2013
--
I AM currently accepting calling cards.
Stats loss counter: reset, irrigo equivalent: none
[00:34] <@ortab> NiteBrite's laugh is that of a condemned soul gazing into the abyss.
Merciless Modiste avatar by Paul Arendt (based on an original image by Joe England)
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/TheBriteModiste
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NiteBrite
Posts: 1019
12/11/2013
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Repost per maskedgentleman's request:
Now that I’ve actually had some sleep and time to think I can see the big picture now, what happened, what was supposed to happen, and where it all went horribly wrong. And honestly? I can’t help but laugh.
This post is going to be a winking island spoilers heavy post so I am including spoiler tags and color text to hid spoilers within the spoiler, but hopefully it will be very informative to those who wish to know. Be warned, it discusses mechanics and can shred a lot of the mystery around the island. It’s my understanding that the way winking island was supposed to work is
[spoiler] 1. A player gains or loses a random amount of fasting and meditating (F&M) between 1 and 10 on a 10 action storylet. Win or lose, the player gains menace.
2. When menace hits 8, the island kicks the player off and removes all of their F&M. (this not happening properly was the bug).
3. There is no way while on the island to reduce ones menace. (this is where I and alexander went wrong. Alexander by exploiting Christmas cards. I by exploiting stored social actions.)
4. A player, having discovered that high menace destroys all progress will learn to make small trips to the island, gain a bit of menace, then leave to heal. A successful completion of winking island will have the player making several trips back … and forthigan (the candle name is a clever pun ahaha XD).
5. High value scraps items can boost progress making the journey faster and more assured. Uncapped items like veils-velvet give minor amounts of progress but no menace. Other items give more progress, but can only be used in specific ranges of F&M.
So that’s what –should- have happened. Where did it all go wrong. The first issue was a bug. A very minor bug that actually, if it had been known in advance would have been extremely beneficial to the player, but left unknown created a situation where
the player did not know the ill effects of menace gain on the island until after they had invested a substantial amount of turns. The bug that the menace kick did not activate when it should have had to do with the unique way linked storylets were set up on the island. Instead of the player learning their lesson right away after 2 to 3 actions, one could be several hundred actions into progressing F&M before it randomly kicked in and booted them. It’s a lot less of a wound to lose 7 or 10 progress learning how the place work than it is to lose 40 to 50.
But even still, there was a backup safety system that should have prevented players from investing too many actions without learning the dangers of menace:
The menace gaining F&M storylets lock at either nightmares 8 or wounds 8. Since there is no natural way to reduce either of these menaces while on the island, this in effect locks the player out of wasting actions in the event the menace kick fails to trigger. You can think of the nightmares and wounds locks as a sort of fail safe or last line of defense. If the player does get locked out of making actions, and the menace kick does not occur, they still are not trapped forever. Time the healer will eventually remove their menace and let them leave or keep playing. But since time the healer only comes once a week, it’s not a major break in the ‘rapidly learn the dangers of menace’ mechanic.
Haha, now here is the part where some of the blame for how this thing exploded comes back to me and alexander and other players, completely independent of the content design:
while on the island, Alexander actively encouraged players to send him christmas cards. Christmas cards are a temporary, seasonal item that reduce menace drastically, and raise stats a lot too. It’s an exploit that they work even on winking island. An exploit that disabled the menace/wounds lockout fail safe mentioned above. For Alexander, this was a great boon, for he never did accidentally trigger the nightmares kick. He never had need to learn of the dangers of menace. I don’t know if he used other menace reduction methods such as social actions, but I suspect so.
When I went to winking island, I did a similar thing. Not with christmas cards, I wasn’t there long enough for that, but with social actions. I used stored wounds heals and nightmares confessions to lower my menaces while on the island, when I shouldn’t have been able to reduce menace at all. In both my case and alexander’s this was a serious break in the mechanics. It meant we could go longer without ever learning the most basic lesson that menace is really bad. At most, it just seemed to be a minor nuisance/time delayer.
To compound the issue further nex was used. Not the smartest idea when it comes to eaten content. This is the part everyone here already knows. Actions were refreshed. There was a sense of desperate urgency. Rumors of time limits. Literal angry mobs frothing at the mouth every second that someone held the card just a little longer than needed, and the overall impression from alexander’s roaring success that the whole thing was fairly painless and easy. I can say with confidence now that all of those rumors, impressions, and perceived advantages were false. If anything christmas cards and extra actions were a grave danger. The danger being they prolonged a bad situation, a situation of ignorance of very real dangers. There was no time limit. No one should have been angry over people taking their time. Wasted, foolish energy and panic is all that was. Haha, I have to say I was under tremendous stress because of all of these things (especially the deadline rumor) and that, along with the high action limit, drove me to foolhardy nex expenditures and gifting. A pity, but totally understandable. I wasn’t the only person there to do this either. Probably 3 out of five people who went spent fate while there. More on the number of visitors will be discussed below.
I think, if the rumor of a time limit had been dispelled a little earlier, and if winking island mechanics had discouraged nex abuse (such as working of short timer living stories like in rat sending simulator 2k13) the volatile emotions that made this thing explode so grandly could have been greatly diffused. I think that’s the situation we are in now. Everything exploded, people are taking a step back now and heads are cooling now that we know better. There are good reasons, I am sure that this didn’t happen sooner. Perhaps to maintain an air of mystery. Perhaps to drive hype to a fever pitch. We’ll never know, but the lesson here is mania is a fire, and if it’s not controlled completely it’s only a matter of time until someone gets burned.
Compounding the issue further
when the menace kick finally did trigger, well into my journey on winking island, it looped on itself. This was a bug, perhaps even, the same bug with linked storylets that prevented it from triggering earlier. This looping made it feel wrong. Like it shouldn’t have happened. Since the text is similar to that of getting sent to the royal beth, I had assumed I accidentally triggered getting sent there and broke a thing. It’s terrible to lose progress. Its worse to lose progress to something that feels and looks wrong. That looks like a bug. It’s even worse when that happens long, long after it should have.
So I was blindsided. What should have been a light slap on the wrist became a death blow to the heart. And I went into meltdown. I couldn’t think straight, I couldn’t anything. Utter panic and chaos set in as my friends had to calm me down enough to remember that you can use a goldfish to lower nightmares. That was good enough to get me off the island. But it was too late for my materials. I had given up my profession as a midnighter to become a poet, for fear of needing to rapidly restats
no stats were lost on accepting the card
Because I had gotten to high levels of fasting and meditating with no problems, I expended my veils-velvet. An act I would not have done until after learning the dangers of menace if everything had worked as intended (and I hadn’t exploited social actions). I lost all the fate I spent attempting to rush because of the rumor mill and general hysteria of the masses about time limits. I had nothing and it left me reeling. So that’s why I posted such crazed and distressed messages to the boards. Friends and colleges who hold me in respect and high regard swooped in to console and defend me, but that just made things explode further.
And that’s the honest truth of what happened on winking island. You would think I would be mad about bugs and errors in gameplay, but honestly I am laughing now. I was as much the engineer of my own demise as the bug was haha.
It’s like having a gas stove with a broken auto-igniter. Gas slowly fills the room and it keeps trying to strike. Eventually it works and causes a large fireball. That’s what the
menace kick linked storylet failuire bug
Did. It took little fires and made them big.
The christmas cards and social action exploits were akin to turning up the gas flow the stove isn’t lighting. Using nex was like ripping the pipes out of the walls haha. Of course that was a bad idea. I didn’t know at the time, but stepping back it’s comically foolhardy.
Oh man, “stove won’t light, better rip the pipes out of the walls :v” –NiteBrite quote of the year. You can’t say I am not foolish. In fact, I was selected for receiving the card because I am extremely foolish. The most foolhardy fool of all the seekers. And that’s why I can say, yes, I was satisfied with the winking island content. Folks wanted a show, and I think I gave them their monies worth (not literal money, its a figure speech) by exploding into a fantastic firework. I can only imagine the look on Alexis’s face as the tiger see this massive gas cloud billowing out of NiteBrite’s house right before the big boom
My apologies, Alexis, and the rest of my fellow seekers. I blew up the SMEN-ence lab by being too reckless. It’s a shame whoever saw this mess tried to swoop in and prey on it with unfounded legal threats. That was just the icing on the cake. While everything is exploded, director of the SMEN-ences, Alexis has wisely closed the lab for rebuilding. It makes sense. Everything is on fire still, give it a little time to heal. It can be rebuilt and safeties can be implemented to prevent this from happening again (I particularly like the short living story timer suggestion). I hope all shall be well again in my aftermath, and that SMEN opens once again. I may have blown up, but I still love it so <3
Oh, and I would be remiss to forget the others. I may have been the epicenter, of this explosion, but others were caught in my wake due to
the card duplication bug. When Alexander was giving up his card, he came up with a mad plan. He would send the card and have me accept after he landed on the island. He wanted to see what would happen.
Alexis had anticipated such a mad strategy. Being on the island without the card should have triggered an auto-kick story. But that didn’t happen to alexander. He landed safely, unawares that he now had two cards after sending it to me, rather than one. I in turn, returned home after exploding, to lick my wounds and heal. I was in a right state, and unfit to return to the island so I passed the card along to my chosen next in line, Dolan.
Dolan, was a controversial choice. Folks from the pact don’t like him much, but I know him well enough from K&C and chat that I knew I could trust him to stick to a plan. He was prepared, in a similar manner as me, and he had three of the high value items to cash in. The desire for rare text and the knowledge he could be trusted and that he was prepared to a similar level as I was were deciding factors in this choice. He legitimately received the card from me then went on to the island.
It was at this time I noticed I not only still had the card, but that I had two. I passed it on again, to see what would happen. It duplicated the card, confirming my suspicions. So I asked the person I sent the card to to wait. The card could have been a bug but with SMEN content, its hard to tell. Arguably, it could have been intended to duplicate all along, making the infighting and rage and popularity contests all comically unnecessary all along. Haha, that would have been great. A total troll on the part of Alexis. I sent a duplicated card to spacemarine (who was asleep) as a teasing joke since I knew he couldn’t accept for a week due to candle curious. Unfortunately, it turns out it was a bug. Words were misunderstood on forums posts between me and Alexis. This lead to people on the island, including dolan, who should have legitimately had the original card, getting booted, as what should have happened to alexander when he first attempted his silly card passing plan. I can understand dolan feeling cheated and asking for a refund. For all he knew, he had a legitimate card and was kicked for no reason. This was my fault! I am sorry to have caused this incident by not recognizing the duplication as a bug proper and not an intended act sooner. You were caught in my error, and that wasn’t right. Alexis, probably, at that point had no idea where the card legitimately belonged. This is my speculation as to why I kept the cards and no one else did. And that’s why others suffered in the aftermath of my explosion.
And so, that’s the entire story of everything, at least, from my perspective. I am really sorry to have caused so much trouble and chaos. I like to think of this as a hard earned lesson in being reckless with SMEN and content boundaries. I share my story, in hopes that others will learn from me not to be so foolhardy. Apologies to everyone again. [/spoiler]
edited by NiteBrite on 12/11/2013
--
I AM currently accepting calling cards.
Stats loss counter: reset, irrigo equivalent: none
[00:34] <@ortab> NiteBrite's laugh is that of a condemned soul gazing into the abyss.
Merciless Modiste avatar by Paul Arendt (based on an original image by Joe England)
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/TheBriteModiste
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NiteBrite
Posts: 1019
1/5/2014
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hahaha, ahahaha, yesss. I was able to poke rats of glory until they
[spoiler]ate my saint candles. Which was what I wanted them to do. Now, when all the new seeking content comes out I get to do it all again from scratch and relive all the fun times <3 [/spoiler]
--
I AM currently accepting calling cards.
Stats loss counter: reset, irrigo equivalent: none
[00:34] <@ortab> NiteBrite's laugh is that of a condemned soul gazing into the abyss.
Merciless Modiste avatar by Paul Arendt (based on an original image by Joe England)
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/TheBriteModiste
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Alexis Kennedy
Posts: 1374
12/9/2013
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Note: if you've just stumbled in here from the wider internet, I apologise for making you wonder what the hell is going on round here. It's normally much calmer.
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Alexis Kennedy
Posts: 1374
12/9/2013
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I'm not going to speculate on the motives of Legal Threat Person, besides suggesting that they're an idiot;
I'm only talking about Nex spent on the Winking Isle content yesterday and this morning.
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Lady Red
Posts: 517
12/10/2013
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I adored the carnival too. One of the things I've actually enjoyed most about the SMEN plotline has been the slow, atmospheric slide into depravity that your character goes on - the fact it's grindy only adds to the pleasure. I didn't mind losing all my lodgings and building them all up again, for example - it felt like a logical step in the game, and penance for the choices my character was taking.
I also really liked the idea of the Winking Isle, and all its nasty little tricks. But I'll admit that I haven't been talking much about SMEN on here lately, because - although everyone on here is very lovely - I was put off by the exclusivity of it, and the idea that I, the player, might have to take part in a RL popularity contest of sorts to get the card, rather than my character slowly working their way towards finding it themselves. I think those of us who are at a high level of SMEN are more likely to be very invested players, and therefore more overemotional towards the game, hence the upsets, and perhaps a certain level of hysteria - the idea that if you miss out, you miss out forever, is a pretty tough one to take.
I really, really hope that SMEN will return, because it is amazingly fabulous, but I wouldn't be sad to see it return to a more 'in game' feel rather than relying on interactions between players outside of the game. Either way though, I think Alexis should be proud of the storyline; it's the highlight of FL, as far as I'm concerned.
edited by Lady Red on 12/10/2013
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Lady~Red
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Alexis Kennedy
Posts: 1374
12/10/2013
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Ladies, gentlemen, others. I went off to do some work and came back to find that my 'Let me demonstrate publicly that I'm not a crook' thread has become an 'explain to Alexis exactly what he needs to do to fix SMEN' thread. As ever, I sincerely (<--no sarcasm!) appreciate the implied enthusiasm, but to repeat what I said in the other thread:
"I'm going to take a week or so to think this over. At the moment the most likely responses are that I'll end the storyline prematurely and as cleanly as possible, providing what closure I can, freeze existing content and leave it in indefinite hiatus, or look at ways to domesticate it into mainstream, [fully supported] content without changing the underlying fiction. I am going to think about other solutions."
In the meantime, Mr Eaten is a personal project in hiatus, so I can, with some relief, step away from the conversation.
People seem to be having fun in here, so I'll change the title and leave y'all to it. Someone hit the report link if anyone gets homophobic. Anyone who's still looking for a refund, mail purchases@failbettergames.com .
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Ewan C.
Posts: 675
12/9/2013
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Halle-frarking-lujiah. I don't Seek and expect that I never will; but this would have been a crying shame. Watching SMEN from the sidelines is fascinating (not to mention heartening in its insights into humanity!)
[I had a brief impulse to fake-email a refund request and sign it Mr Eaten. But I couldn't create something sufficiently witty, alas.]
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Alexis Kennedy
Posts: 1374
12/10/2013
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I've withdrawn the entire storyline for now, pending review. I've annotated the Mr Eaten quality accordingly. If you see any Eaten content still playable in the wild, please let me know so I can freeze it.
This doesn't yet mean it's all over - we hope to bring it back soon in a modified form - but we can't afford the time and risk involved in managing potential complaints when it was designed and created as unsupported content.
Thanks, as ever, for your enthusiasm.
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airshipmedic
Posts: 50
12/30/2013
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I am a former seeker, eagerly awaiting its return, because apparently I enjoy seeing my character suffer. And I've been processing the Alexis blog and any forum mentions of how things fell apart on Winking Isle. I've come to the conclusion that I LIKE Alexis, and I LIKE Nitebrite, which is strange because I haven't met or interacted with them online. There's something about the honesty of raw emotion that touches my soul & makes me want to shower the digital universe in hugs. Reading Alexis's blog, I was struck by how his suffering seemed like an Eaten quest in the real world, which is unfair because seekers in the game are thoroughly warned. He offered up his art, then got stomped on. I'm not accusing anyone here of doing the stomping. One of the things that has impressed me with these Eaten forum threads is the outpouring love, both for the storyline and the creator of it. And I wanted to add my little piece of affection as well.
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Urthdigger
Posts: 939
12/9/2013
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I must say I'm quite relieved to hear this. I got the impression the SMEN was something you did for the enjoyment of it, and I would hate to see that tarnished by lawsuits.
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Looking for second chances to maximize your loot output from those troublesome storylets? Check out our handy gang of volunteers in this thread, or even volunteer yourself!
@Urthdigger on twitter
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neongrey
Posts: 29
12/10/2013
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Honestly I think the best thing for everything to do right now -- especially the people who are panicking-- is to sit down, take a deep breath, and do your best to chill. Nothing's going to happen while Alexis takes the time and space to decide how to proceed from here, and staying worked up over it isn't going to help anyone feel better. It sucks, and I'm not going to tell anyone not to care about what happens with the story and content, but don't let it turn into some bizarre meta-ARG. 
Just take a breath, have a hot bath, a nice cup of tea, pet a cat. If you do not have a cat to pet, a cat will be petted for you. We do have transitive cats standing by ready to be petted via the magic of the internet.
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My Profile
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Spacemarine9
Posts: 2234
12/10/2013
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Alexis Kennedy wrote:
If you see any Eaten content still playable in the wild, please let me know so I can freeze it.
Well er there is this. please don't take it away from me. also Sackville is right about the saturday show option still being there
Alexis Kennedy wrote:
we hope to bring it back soon in a modified form
something something accounting postponing i think you get the idea
Really though I'm probably going to end up being eaten by curiosity now because I won't know if I was right about the amount of Proscribed Materials for God's Editors. Fair warning though; If you end up defanging SMEN I may end up doing something absurd, like playing Dark Souls with one hand while juggling hot coals with the other and operating FL using only eye movements, just to maintain the difficulty.
edited by Spacemarine9 on 12/10/2013
--
my rats will blot out the sun
Ratgames
FL lore/mechanics questions and answers
#FallenLondon IRC (irc.synirc.net) Channel! Click to join via Mibbit.
#SunlessSea IRC channel! Like the above, but zee-ier.
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Laluzi
Posts: 456
12/10/2013
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Well, I'm glad that the reckoning won't be postponed indefinitely, but I have to express some sadness and doubt at the current turn things have taken.
Mr Eaten content is supposed to be dangerous. It's supposed to be damaging. It's supposed to be frustrating. It's supposed to be a costly spiral down into hell that the player pursues entirely on their own volition, gaining nothing but knowledge. It's not supposed to be undertaken by a casual player. It's not supposed to be taken by anyone, really, but god bless those dedicated idiots who do.
Now, I can see people complaining about Fate they've spent on the island. Or in the quest at all, really, which is why I think that the options at the midnight carnival are potentially dangerous (especially the 'sacrifice your destiny' one, as it's a viable option, and people may have things to say about it if they choose to leave the quest later on). People complaining about real-world money are dangerous, especially to such a small company, and I understand that. But SMEN doesn't do this, for the most part. I think Winking Isle needs work in its design, but everything else, I have nothing to complain about. It's punishing, it's difficult, it's slow, and it's glorious, because your character is struggling through a mire of insanity and betrayal and pain to an end they are not guaranteed to reach.
And I feel sad for you, Alexis, because from what I understand, SMEN is your own brainchild and thought experiment, and things aren't turning out like you'd envisioned.
edited by Laluzi on 12/10/2013
--
Feel free to ask if you need something! Uninterested in Trailing the Affluent Photographer.
Mercer - an enigmatic and brutal individual. Frightfully strong. Has even more frightful manners.
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Shadowhand
Posts: 197
12/10/2013
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I don't know...I most certainly would not want the Eaten story to be contained to the carnival. I think the candle mechanics were brilliant, especially how each one seemed to signify another terrible deed.
I think my favourite is still St. Arthur. That repeated bashing-your-skull into the wall for seemingly no gain, that slow spiral into insanity that so many people already mentioned, the beautiful prose, I adored every minute of it. Not to say Beau's wasn't an equal masterpiece; it definitely was.
Even Cerise was perfect, in my humble opinion. Like a way of saying "Yeah you've destroyed yourself, now how about your friends?" And the fact that the token thievery was only open to other seekers made it perfectly fair. I mean, hey, you were warned from the start.
Destin's, as scattered as it was, also had a great path going there with eating your reputation. I'm not even sure if that was painful enough, but still good.
All in all, I would miss any part of SMEN if it was taken away. I even thought the idea of Winking Isle was awesome (I was waiting for the day I'd be able to sacrifice my 8th-tier goods; I was hungering for it!) and perhaps the only thing "wrong" with it was the insane action-eating rate. Aside from this, the leery Carnival option I mentioned, and recently the Fate/Enigma trade on the Rat of Glory, there's been practically no other part of SMEN that has called for the devouring of Fate (which, as far as I'm concerned, is the only thing any player has the smallest smidgen of justification to complain about).
How might Winking Isle be improved in the future? Maybe the player can be cursed with a living story that has to be waited away, similar to Irrigo, so that actions and Fate are of no concern. I can see the calling card causing some trouble, so perhaps the Isle can be left as the Seeker's ultimate destination (it's what I sort of expected, really, travelling NORTH with the Dilmun Club or summat).
So, pardon my long blab, but I feel that SMEN simply derailed a bit at the end there, and the mechanics otherwise require very little modification. I rant this with such passion because SMEN has been my favourite part of this incredible game thus far, for all the reasons just stated, and to see any inch of it hacked off would be a very harsh blow indeed to my already-stained soul.
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Twitter: @mortshadow - Fallen London: Shadowhand
Benjamin Gabbay, a silly and crafty individual of mysterious and indistinct intentions
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Alexander Feld
Posts: 348
12/11/2013
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Urthdigger wrote:
Now that I've seen NiteBrite's explanation, I really wish nothing had changed. That this whole drama hadn't unfolded, that I could be able to experience the island in its natural state. Oh well.
It often comes back to me that I could have changed the course of history. None of this would have happened if I'd just kept silent about the card. Was there anything I could have done differently? The right word here or there, perhaps? I suppose we will never know. The world turns, time goes on.
As things seem to be cooling down, I think I can now post the full story of my time on the island without inciting a riot, hm?
http://nightmarethrenody.tumblr.com/post/69675861656/when-mr-eaten-comes-a-calling
And an epilogue which most people here will find unnecessary, but does have a lament I sang in honor of these events.
http://nightmarethrenody.tumblr.com/post/69675864926/when-mr-eaten-goes-away-an-epilogue-of-deeper
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I am a star-gazer, story-eater, and a smelter of words.
I filch hidden things from hidden places, to hide once more in my dark cabinet of curiosities
Alexander Feld, the mad, damned, lord of seekers.
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Alexis Kennedy
Posts: 1374
12/13/2013
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Lady Red wrote:
I presumed he just meant that a). he wouldn't be taking on the Mr Eaten persona in the forums (that must have taken up so much time...) and b). he wouldn't be creating exclusive content for particular players, like Spacemarine, any more (again, that must have taken up a fair amount of time...), rather than that he wouldn't come on the forums at all any more.
Yup, that's it. I do need to step back from friendly non-public conversations, too, to avoid playing favourites with customers. And we are (see other thread) hiring for a role which includes 'community manager'. But I'll still be around.
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Spacemarine9
Posts: 2234
4/15/2014
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Hello! This thread hasn't been terribly active lately, but I don't really think this deserves its own thread. I wrote some words about what happened to Mr Eaten and its importance to Neathy history and the Fallen Cities. While its maybe not technically absolutely related to SMEN, I figure it'd probably be of interest to the posters + readers of this thread here.
If you want to discuss the information here or anything related to it, maybe give the IRC a visit! We don't bite! Usually!
--
my rats will blot out the sun
Ratgames
FL lore/mechanics questions and answers
#FallenLondon IRC (irc.synirc.net) Channel! Click to join via Mibbit.
#SunlessSea IRC channel! Like the above, but zee-ier.
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Kade Carrion (an_ocelot)
Posts: 1372
12/10/2013
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I like the points about the exclusivity and potential time-limitedness making things emotionally fraught; if the stakes need to be lowered a smaller amount to make SMEN not a risk for Failbetter, then addressing those mechanisms strikes me as potentially useful. I was talking about if a much larger scaleback is envisioned.
But we, of course, are extremely niche players and already have shown ourselves to be somewhat unbalanced by doing this in the first place, so I have every confidence that Alexis will take this with the proper amount of salt--no pressure or presumption is intended.
--
Social Actions: send them to Kade Carrion (she/her; no Tournament of Lilies, please). an_ocelot has gone NORTH and cannot benefit from social actions!
Possibly-Useful Things: Spreadsheets and hints and link collections, oh my.
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
12/10/2013
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Can we please just let Alexis do what he's planning to do? We don't even know what these changes are going to be! It seems a bit silly to me to post so much negativity when we don't even know what the "damage" is going to be.
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro
Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.
Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
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Laluzi
Posts: 456
12/10/2013
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What I'm most worried about is that parts of the story are going to be excised. To me, that's a purely horrifying idea and I couldn't stand it. Having the danger mitigated - I'm not fond of the idea, but I could live with it, whereas having SMEN overhauled and changed into something else terrifies me. I really don't like the idea of any existing content being retconned, and if it could be clarified that this isn't going to be the case, I'd rest much easier.
I agree with the general observation that when SMEN becomes social, it incites panic; when players are pitted against each other, everyone gets frenzied over being first, lest some resource (people to betray, silver prize tokens, the calling card) run out. This isn't helped by the quest's underlying 'there can only be one' that's been more and more emphasized as of late. Because the players have no assurance that that content will ever be made easier to get, or renewed, period, they start to view these events as the inevitable bottleneck of 'not everyone will be able to complete this step'. Which leads to tensions and tempers and general nastiness.
The calling card was possibly the worst of them because it introduced a new candle, there was only one, and rumors started spreading that it was time-limited. This caused people to get angry at a.) Alexander Feld for trying to get things on the island, which frankly anyone would have done in his position, b.) the quest, and c.) each other, as potential competition and jostling for the front of the line. So when the duplication glitch appeared, everyone leapt for it with all the panic they'd worked themselves up into. I'm unsurprised it all blew up like this. Legal Threat Guy was just the mayonaisse on the burnt cake.
If anything needs to be changed about SMEN at all - and I personally don't believe it does, but apparently not everyone shares this opinion - it seems to me like the biggest problem is the looming threat of 'you're not going to be able to complete this because somebody else is going to beat you to it'. Because when that mixes with player-to-player actions and requirements, it brings out the worst in everyone.
Eh. You've probably thought about all of this already. I'm going to trust you, Alexis, but the fact that Mr Eaten's being 'defanged' at all really shook me, and I just feel a lot better for having voiced my concerns.
edited by Laluzi on 12/10/2013
--
Feel free to ask if you need something! Uninterested in Trailing the Affluent Photographer.
Mercer - an enigmatic and brutal individual. Frightfully strong. Has even more frightful manners.
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Scarlet Fenwick
Posts: 56
12/10/2013
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So, I adore Eaten content. My current character does not play it after narrowly extracting herself from becoming the Number. It's part of Her Story, and the story of lots of people who play in the online RP I'm involved in. It's one of the few menaces that remains just that: a menace. I've been recently contemplating getting an alt that plays SMEN because I love the content so much, and too many people no longer play it in our group - it's part of their history, but not of their present. But the scenes we've had! The horrid interactions! The battling with propriety vs sanity vs survival vs obsession. SMEN has contributed so much to the atmosphere of Fallen London. You die, you come back. You go mad, you get better. You are too scandalous, you wait it out. Even Hell is something less threatening.
But SMEN is always out there, always watching. It's a threat that cannot be mitigated or gotten use to. It doesn't become part of the grey of London existence - it is vivid splash of red at every turn. It's a part of you, insidiously subtle in making you wonder if you are making your own choices, or something is pushing you. You must go further to retreat. To some degree, many of the characters wonder if SMEN is what would save them all in the end...are they being negligent in not sacrificing themselves? Or are they being wise? How can you know?
...all of that wandering thought is to say, I really hope SMEN stays and I cannot wait to see where it goes. It's fantastically written, layered with symbolism and depth that I rarely find in anywhere, let alone a game. SMEN makes you FEEL the desperation and uncertainty and madness. That's brilliance, right there.
edited by OScarletO on 12/10/2013
--
Scarlet O. Fenwick, The Crimson Coquette and Scarlet Saint of London
https://twitter.com/#!/OScarletO<---Twitter
http://crimsoncoquette.wordpress.com----The Gallery of the Bazaarine
http://folkfusionista.wordpress.com----The Crimson Ring
Community
http://fallen-london.livejournal.com----LJ Community for RPers (Scenes, Logs of Twitter and AIM scenes, etc)
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CameoAppearance
Posts: 146
12/10/2013
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I've had difficulty gathering my thoughts because the thought of SMEN disappearing makes my brain seize up and then run around in panicked circles. (I'm also quite irritated because I was intending to have my main account temporarily take up Seeking again for story purposes as soon as I could swing a betrayal, and my seeking alt/secondary character was Seeking but took what was supposed to be a brief break from it -- using the advent calendar's code to remove Free of the Name -- so I could get double betrayed and help out my seeker friends. But the freeze came in before I could get betrayed on either account, so now I'm locked out indefinitely.)
I've barely even played the content, I just think the idea of it is a unique and shining gem of sadistic brilliance, and I really enjoy the lore knotted around and through it. I also find the ridiculously punishing game mechanics hilarious. (My sense of humour is peculiar and a bit mean, yes.) My main character is the Seeking equivalent of a recovering alcoholic, or something of the kind; I picture the search for the Name as having addictive properties above and beyond a normal obsession, but in addition to that, it's the one secret that was truly too dangerous to pursue, the one time they were forced to admit that hunting down this mystery would destroy them, which is maddening for a Watchful-centric character who sees the 'forbidden' in 'forbidden knowledge' as somewhere between a challenge and a personal insult. So they're tormented with intermittent thoughts of returning to the Search, thoughts which are not entirely their own; the same forces that carry the word NORTH to the rest of the Fifth City whisper in my character's ear like everyone else's, bolstered by familiarity, and my PC is torn between succumbing to temptation and the vow they swore to never again go down that road.
And then there's my Seeking alt, who's just doomed. That was one of the first things I knew about them, since I created that secondary account for the purpose of playing through things my main character would never do, and 'actually trying to finish SMEN' was chief among them. (Although it's also nice to just have a second playthrough, since I've hit most of the content boundaries on my main.)
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Dr Cameo “Scary Teeth” Thurlow, that toothy androgyne with the wickedly sharp curly quotes
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Malgorath
Posts: 124
12/10/2013
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Another thing I was hoping to figure out. I went to the forums a few hours after the panic, legal threat, and lock down so I played catch up to get the situation figured out. I'm not trying to say Alexis is wrong with his ideas for what to do from here, but I don't understand why the options are end it prematurely, freeze it, or try to integrate it (which seems like it'd be difficult). I mean, the panic of the Isle is over, the bugs have been found and can be fixed up, and the legal threat has been found to be fake. Why can't we just have a bit of a break to cool off, then continue like nothing ever happened? Why do things need to drastically change?
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Phil - TRAVELLER RETURNING
Malgorath - A new member of the Neath.
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OPG
Posts: 387
12/11/2013
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I'm honestly surprised that in ~24 hours of collectively freaking out that nobody has remembered that all shall be well and all manner of thing shall be well.
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overpoweredginger, an irresistible, magnificent, midnight and sagacious gentleman.
A Fallen London Roleplay Community exists. Contrary to popular belief, Richard Nixon is not involved.
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Asclepius Unbound
Posts: 389
12/10/2013
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Alexis, I would have also interpreted your original post the same way Dolan did. Maybe it's an artifact of how long I've been around, but I've never made a 'Fate is free but Nex is real' distinction: the vast majority of the Fate I've ever had was paid for (by me or by a friend as a gift), and I've, for example, bought Fate/Nex to gift a Box of 100 Wonders as a birthday present in the past.
So I'd hope you're not upset on that score. Reading Dolan's original request I thought it must have been hard for him to go out on a limb. I certainly don't think there was any intention to take advantage.
--
Alas, Asclepius Unbound is now forever beyond the reach of invitations. A successful Seeker.
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NiteBrite
Posts: 1019
12/10/2013
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I want to publicly apologize for my involvement in this whole affair. I want it to be known, that I was and am satisfied with my experience on winking island. It was distressing, and full of unique sufferings that I had not expected or anticipated and it did cause me a brief episode of panic. But that's the beauty of eaten content, it affects you just so. The bug was unfortunate, but ultimately did not impact my overall experience negatively.
edited by NiteBrite on 12/10/2013
--
I AM currently accepting calling cards.
Stats loss counter: reset, irrigo equivalent: none
[00:34] <@ortab> NiteBrite's laugh is that of a condemned soul gazing into the abyss.
Merciless Modiste avatar by Paul Arendt (based on an original image by Joe England)
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/TheBriteModiste
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Alexander Feld
Posts: 348
12/31/2013
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airshipmedic wrote:
I am a former seeker, eagerly awaiting its return, because apparently I enjoy seeing my character suffer. And I've been processing the Alexis blog and any forum mentions of how things fell apart on Winking Isle. I've come to the conclusion that I LIKE Alexis, and I LIKE Nitebrite, which is strange because I haven't met or interacted with them online. There's something about the honesty of raw emotion that touches my soul & makes me want to shower the digital universe in hugs. Reading Alexis's blog, I was struck by how his suffering seemed like an Eaten quest in the real world, which is unfair because seekers in the game are thoroughly warned. He offered up his art, then got stomped on. I'm not accusing anyone here of doing the stomping. One of the things that has impressed me with these Eaten forum threads is the outpouring love, both for the storyline and the creator of it. And I wanted to add my little piece of affection as well.
In all matters of the Bazaar, always look to love. Even in the real world.
--
I am a star-gazer, story-eater, and a smelter of words.
I filch hidden things from hidden places, to hide once more in my dark cabinet of curiosities
Alexander Feld, the mad, damned, lord of seekers.
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Inky Petrel
Posts: 370
1/5/2014
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Nitebrite is pretty terrifying (and wonderful) ♥ I have a mental image of them cackling gleefully while stroking a pet rat (which is hissing) and muttering "soon! SOON!" :p
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Re: Fallen London, please don't invite me to things or send me things, I'm only on occasionally, so you will waste your candle Thank you.
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Laluzi
Posts: 456
12/12/2013
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Well, if I'm allowed to speculate... (and this is most rampant speculation, far-flung from fact)
Also; here there be spoilers. Massive spoilers. You have been warned.
[spoiler] We know Mr Eaten was betrayed in the Third City, but some things hint that Mr Eaten had a connection to the Second City as well. The Masters hate the Second City, for reasons unknown; Mr Eaten is singular in the fact that he does not. Specifically, he said;
'I think the place is charming; the weather, delightful; the Pharaoh’s daughters, most hospitable.'
So Mr Eaten enjoyed the Second City while the rest of the Masters loathed it. It's curious that he'd mention the Pharaoh's daughters in particular. Combine this with the fact that the Duchess - who was most certainly one of the Pharaoh's daughters - approves of you speaking of Mr Eaten in her parlor, when she approves of little else, and it's possible that Mr Eaten was a close friend of the royal family. This is also supported by a bit of text from the now-destroyed Winking Isle (the Duchess that the Masters loathe; he does not loathe her…).
In exchanging certifiable scraps for highest-tier items, there are often scraps of the stories behind said items. In particular, the Breath of the Void references an incantation in the Correspondence made to the Bazaar, by the Pharaoh of the Second City. I unfortunately can't cite the following, because I can't find it (I will if I do), but I have been told that the Pharaoh spoke an incantation to the Bazaar in an attempt to 'chain' it.
That’s also supported by scraps of doggerel. The second was the one that betrayed, the third taught us hunger… so it may have been that the Pharaoh attempted to betray the Bazaar using the Correspondence. Where did he learn it? There are other ways, if not many, but knowing a Master might be a bit of a shortcut. Perhaps Mr Eaten taught it to one of his daughters, perhaps he didn't. It doesn't particularly matter if he did or didn't, or if he was in on the deal or not. He's already guilty by association. If the other Masters thought that Mr Eaten had anything to do with the royal family's plot... well, that would explain why they turned on him in the next city. Mr Eaten's viewpoint suggests he was innocent, but, well. You could say he's biased.
On the other hand, it’s heavily implied that Mr Veils singularly betrayed Mr Eaten. He's ticked with Wines and Spices for stealing the domain he vacated, and he's mad at the Bazaar for not holding its promise, but he absolutely loathes Mr Veils. The Bazaar and the rest of the Masters went along with it, and none have displayed any sort of uncertainty about what happened, but there are numerous times during the quest where Mr Eaten calls out Mr Veils specifically for selling him out to the God-Eaters, the third-city priests. There was some sort of ceremony – Mr Eaten was told that they ‘would only take a little’ – and it looks like it was done to appease… something? There's also something that suggests it was done to break the chains the pharaoh placed on the Bazaar. Mr Eaten might have been selected for it over some slight, such as the aforementioned possible second city fiasco, but it’s ambiguous whether or not the rest of the Masters knew what was going to happen, or if the priests really were only supposed to take a little and something went wrong/the process was sabotaged. In the end, well. We know that much. Mr Eaten was consumed, drowned, and destroyed. The God-Eaters live forever. His kin have forgotten him. He has not been avenged. The Bazaar promised him all would be well. All is most certainly not well. And a reckoning will not be postponed indefinitely.
Again; this is all theory and conjecture, pieced together from fragments of fact. I do not have the complete picture. There are doubtless many things wrong with my guesses.[/spoiler]
edited by Laluzi on 12/12/2013
--
Feel free to ask if you need something! Uninterested in Trailing the Affluent Photographer.
Mercer - an enigmatic and brutal individual. Frightfully strong. Has even more frightful manners.
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Alexis Kennedy
Posts: 1374
12/10/2013
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Dolan: I have credited your character with 30 Fate, at a nominal value of 5.15 USD.
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gulbanana
Posts: 4
12/10/2013
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frankly the whole drama makes the SMEN storyline *more* compelling. i just wish it didn't affect alexis either personally or financially.
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Dolan
Posts: 296
12/10/2013
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I feel kind of shitty asking, and I wasn't going to before, but given your generous offer, it would be nice if I could get the 30 Fate back I spent on the Winking Island itself. I simply don't have oodles of money to spend on Fate, and after all I'm just going to reinvest it in more great Fallen London content anyway.
I also bought Exceptional Friendship for the purpose of having extra actions for my island trip, but I'm enjoying the House of Chimes content anyway, so I'm fine with that purchase.
Please note that I don't mean this as any kind of indictment of the content itself - if the content hadn't been bugged, I wouldn't dream of asking for a refund either. I think I may be the only person who was actually kicked off of the Winking Island due to the accidentally duplicated cards vanishing from inventories. Makes me wonder if I saw some content no one else has or ever will see, what with the little storylets that involved being teleported directly to the Mirror-Marches.
Anyway, thank you Alexis for your generous offer, and for not getting fed up and just summarily smiting all of us crazy Seekers!
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KatarinaNavane
Posts: 462
12/10/2013
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Oh please don't remove Seeking entirely! I missed this recent winking isle thing, but overall it has been one of the most entertaining aspects of this game. If winking isle wasn't working by all means remove or change it, but everything else so far has been quite fun, and making it easy would take away the point of it.
I would be fine if it were updated less often and more focus were given to other reocurring stories, but don't remove what's already been done please!
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Storynexus sn Katarina Navane.
My art page (much of which is dark, Victorian, and/or full of tentacles): http://www.facebook.com/demonkittydesigns
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babelfishwars
Administrator
Posts: 1152
12/10/2013
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an_ocelot wrote:
make it a single trip for people to learn the Name, with some medium-onerous entrance and exit requirements.
I HORSE HEAD YOUR PILLOW.
Not enough pain, not enough paaaain.
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Mars, God of Fish; Leaning Tower of Fish
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babelfishwars
Administrator
Posts: 1152
12/10/2013
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Sara Hysaro wrote:
babelfishwars wrote:
I am sorrow.
Well, obviously I am joy that it's not gone for good (I'm taking your 'hope' as certainty) - but I liked the risk of being in an experimental sometimes bugged sometimes buggering part of the game.
In a masochistic way, it felt special to be going against the game and taking on in game and out of game risks.
I want to be special, dammit. :-(
You're still special. Everyone who's gotten this far will be able to claim to have done all this back when it wasn't supported. We can be like the stereotypical elderly person! XD
Edit: Seriously though, I hear ya. That's part of why I participated in the content. We may never know what tricks Alexis had in store for us, and that is a shame. However, the content is excellent and I look forward to seeing it come back when it's ready. ^^
edited by Sara Hysaro on 12/10/2013
I hope I get a stick I can trip youngans with. I DEMAND I get such a stick.
Edit: Also, I want to hug NiteBrite. And Alexis. But NiteBrite. HUGS.
edited by babelfishwars on 12/10/2013
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Mars, God of Fish; Leaning Tower of Fish
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MaskedGentleman
Posts: 339
12/11/2013
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NiteBrite, you might want to repost that. I would hate for anyone to miss such a detailed and intelligent post just because it is at the bottom of a page. I would also like to take a moment and state that if this debacle had occurred in another gaming community I imagine that rather than introspective discussions and, I personally feel rather unjustified, self blame there would be much more yelling, screaming, capslocked posts filled with words that would need to be quickly deleted by a moderator. I may not be a Seeker, but posts like this do make me glad to be part of this community.
edited by MaskedGentleman on 12/11/2013
--
I would like to thank this community and game for the many years of joy you have brought me. May you find your Heart's Desire.
Daniel Redwood
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Kade Carrion (an_ocelot)
Posts: 1372
12/10/2013
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Karaeir wrote:
an_ocelot wrote:
I love the new thread title.
...but where are all the drinks?
In today's Advent Calendar, of course!
edited by an_ocelot on 12/10/2013
--
Social Actions: send them to Kade Carrion (she/her; no Tournament of Lilies, please). an_ocelot has gone NORTH and cannot benefit from social actions!
Possibly-Useful Things: Spreadsheets and hints and link collections, oh my.
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Laluzi
Posts: 456
12/10/2013
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Karaeir wrote:
an_ocelot wrote:
I love the new thread title.
...but where are all the drinks?
Well, I imagine we had a nice little table with punch and snacks, but it probably only lasted one Seeker. Maybe two on a good day.
--
Feel free to ask if you need something! Uninterested in Trailing the Affluent Photographer.
Mercer - an enigmatic and brutal individual. Frightfully strong. Has even more frightful manners.
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mayexist
Posts: 132
12/10/2013
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I'm pretty sure Alexis loves SMEN more than any of us do, and making suggestions that he'll be unable to meet won't make anyone happier.
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[1].png)
Emain Ablach
Posts: 348
12/10/2013
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Lady Red wrote:
(...) But I'll admit that I haven't been talking much about SMEN on here lately, because - although everyone on here is very lovely - I was put off by the exclusivity of it, and the idea that I, the player, might have to take part in a RL popularity contest of sorts to get the card, rather than my character slowly working their way towards finding it themselves(...)
Same feeling here. The social part has its good and bad parts. This is the one I didn't appreciate.
--
Went NORTH. Got salted. Never came back. We won't remember him.
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Emain%20Ablach
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Spacemarine9
Posts: 2234
12/13/2013
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Alexis Kennedy wrote:
I do need to step back from friendly non-public conversations, too,
Does twitter count as friendly non-public conversations, because "yelling at Alexis on twitter" is one of my favourite hobbies, just behind "yelling at everyone else on twitter".
look forward to my new game, twitter yelling simulator 2k17
--
my rats will blot out the sun
Ratgames
FL lore/mechanics questions and answers
#FallenLondon IRC (irc.synirc.net) Channel! Click to join via Mibbit.
#SunlessSea IRC channel! Like the above, but zee-ier.
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Playersideblog
Posts: 397
12/13/2013
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Alexis Kennedy wrote:
Lady Red wrote:
I presumed he just meant that a). he wouldn't be taking on the Mr Eaten persona in the forums (that must have taken up so much time...) and b). he wouldn't be creating exclusive content for particular players, like Spacemarine, any more (again, that must have taken up a fair amount of time...), rather than that he wouldn't come on the forums at all any more.
Yup, that's it. I do need to step back from friendly non-public conversations, too, to avoid playing favourites with customers. And we are (see other thread) hiring for a role which includes 'community manager'. But I'll still be around.
I'm picturing the Want Ad.
"Wanted: Mr. Eaten"
The rest of the poster has been devoured.
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My profile
I am now a Correspondent, and no longer able to accept invitations as an Author. (Or so I believe.)
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lady ciel
Posts: 2548
12/13/2013
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The strange thing is that SMEN is part of FL. All those mentions of North in the dreams, you meet a few NPC's who are North Driven; then there is something about a well and also it affects how you can interact with the devils. Then it also got entwined with the social actions - you had to recruit other players; play K&C or steal from other Seekers to progress.
And I also don't understand how people can say there is more new Eaten content than other FL content. It feels like there are always enough new things being introduced, I've been playing a while but Professions, Notability, Heists, Pickpockets Promenade, Writing Short Stories, Expeditions in the Forgotten Quarter, Destinies and I'm sure other things did not exist when I started playing.
Then the start of the game has been changed and Seasonal content is written as well.
But then Seekers are, on the whole, dedicated players so I suppose that it can seem like there is more content for them than other players.
--
ciel
Sorry RL means I am not a very active player at the moment. No social actions unless you are prepared to wait and definitely no sparring or other mult-action things.
No Calling Cards or boxed cats please. Will take dupes on the affluent photographers. Other social invitations welcome. Parabolan Kittens usually available, send me an in-game social action saying you want one and I will get one to you as soon as possible.
storynexus name - reveurciel
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Guy Scrum
Posts: 197
1/5/2014
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NiteBrite, you're scaring me.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Guy%20Scrum
Interactive fidgeting writer simulation
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Aspeon
Posts: 311
1/11/2014
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Speaking of candles, the [content retired] bit has disappeared from all of them except Cerise, and SMEN itself now says [This content will return soon.]
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A raccooning will not be postponed indefinitely.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Aspeon
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OPG
Posts: 387
3/2/2014
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Nope. There will probably be an announcement, followed by mass rejoicing, followed by the mysterious disappearance of half the posters here.
--
overpoweredginger, an irresistible, magnificent, midnight and sagacious gentleman.
A Fallen London Roleplay Community exists. Contrary to popular belief, Richard Nixon is not involved.
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NiteBrite
Posts: 1019
1/5/2014
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Guy Scrum wrote:
NiteBrite, you're scaring me.
A natural response to seeking of this level
Inky Petrel wrote:
Nitebrite is pretty terrifying (and wonderful) ♥ I have a mental image of them cackling gleefully while stroking a pet rat (which is hissing) and muttering "soon! SOON!" :p
Yesss, SOON! ♥
an_ocelot wrote:
NiteBrite, that's hilarious (but you realize you're counting on there still *being* candles . . . )
Haha, don't even tease. That would be the worst :P
Laluzi wrote:
NiteBrite, I don't understand you. You're still amazing. But I don't understand you at all.
Its very simple, I want to go to the carnival again and feed it all the delicious new five card lodgings. All of them. All the lodgings in the game must be fed to the well. It hungers so haha. Granted I still need to grind materials to get the other two lodgings, but its only a matter of time
--
I AM currently accepting calling cards.
Stats loss counter: reset, irrigo equivalent: none
[00:34] <@ortab> NiteBrite's laugh is that of a condemned soul gazing into the abyss.
Merciless Modiste avatar by Paul Arendt (based on an original image by Joe England)
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/TheBriteModiste
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NiteBrite
Posts: 1019
12/13/2013
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I'm looking forward to starting SMEN again, possibly from scratch if that becomes an opportunity. With all these new lodgings coming out, I would feel bad not throwing them down a well. I fondly remember grinding all of the lodgings available just to destroy them. That included my salon too. I didn't even have many connections to lose. Just wanted to go for the biggest sacrifice available. Fun times.
--
I AM currently accepting calling cards.
Stats loss counter: reset, irrigo equivalent: none
[00:34] <@ortab> NiteBrite's laugh is that of a condemned soul gazing into the abyss.
Merciless Modiste avatar by Paul Arendt (based on an original image by Joe England)
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/TheBriteModiste
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NiteBrite
Posts: 1019
12/11/2013
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I dunno. Maybe he intended to betray 7 matriarchs each time. That sounds like the sort of thing I would do, if I ever had that many echos haha. #reasons I don't have an overgoat
--
I AM currently accepting calling cards.
Stats loss counter: reset, irrigo equivalent: none
[00:34] <@ortab> NiteBrite's laugh is that of a condemned soul gazing into the abyss.
Merciless Modiste avatar by Paul Arendt (based on an original image by Joe England)
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/TheBriteModiste
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MaskedGentleman
Posts: 339
12/12/2013
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[spoiler]
The order of nuns that hunt the Vake did something to defeat the Masters, and this something was undone by the "feather-wearing heathens" of the third city. We know Veils betrayed Eaten. We know Eaten hates "Vake-the-betrayer". We know the Bazaar owes it to one of its servants the joy of its hunt and the sound of its voice. I propose the Veils, the Vake, lost its freedom to hunt due to the second city and regained that power by betraying Eaten. Perhaps the Vake was something else before it was a Master and that is why it alone hunts. Perhaps all the Masters lost the power to hunt and only Veils can because of the betrayal.
Remember how you drown yourself with beer? And Wines tells you of the sour beer of the second city? How Mutton Islanders decorate the well with jugs of sour beer? How Eaten rose to the top of the well where the priest would "only take a little"? I think Eaten was drowned in the second city and eaten in the third.
We also know that Candles had some power over dreams and perhaps Parabola.
I also think there might be a connection between the Wax wind that rends flesh and consumes and Mr. Candles. Especially after all the times you end up stuffing your mouth full of wax during the Eaten quest. [/spoiler]
edited by MaskedGentleman on 12/12/2013
--
I would like to thank this community and game for the many years of joy you have brought me. May you find your Heart's Desire.
Daniel Redwood
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deadcrystal
Posts: 125
12/10/2013
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My character retired from the Search some time ago, but Beaus' was pitch-perfect content. The perfect accompaniment at that point to all the warnings as to the dangers and consequences of what you were doing was the systematic destruction of any reason for doing it. Having someone point out that all your reasons, whatever they were, boiled down to nothing much at all was superb.
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Alice~Darkmoor
A determined Dolphin - Alexis
Great Grind Empress, and Knife and Candle Queen
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Swinter
Posts: 66
12/10/2013
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Sara Hysaro wrote:
Can we please just let Alexis do what he's planning to do? We don't even know what these changes are going to be! It seems a bit silly to me to post so much negativity when we don't even know what the "damage" is going to be.
Honestly?
No, we can't. Ever since the internet was created there's been a proud tradition of second guessing content creators intentions. Why would we be the ones to stop?
It kinda comes with the territory of having a vested interest in the game. For some, because we've spent money on buying Nex, and for others because they've spent a lot of time on it.
In the end, we're all aware that the Tiger will decide. But until then, we will always try to sway the decision to the position we think are the most favourable to us. As long as it's done with calm discussion, I see nothing wrong with it, even when just based on conjecture.
Edit: Oh and Lazuli is correct. Making the Mr. Eaten content social is asking for trouble. You're pitting your already most loyal and fervent customers against each other. That's going to turn ugly really quickly.
edited by Swinter on 12/10/2013
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Swinter
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Corran
Posts: 401
12/11/2013
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Many people have said many things on here, and I agree with quite a few of the sentiments but I wanted to post a little myself as well.
I liked the Seeking content for a few reasons:
The whole collaborative effort on the forums and even beyond gave an extra dimension to the discovery.
Losing/grinding made for a (good) reason to keep playing and as someone else said, it did seem like most new content was Seeker content lately. I think Seeking is one of the major reason why so many people stick around after hitting the level/content barrier but that's obviously speculation on my part.
I was actually quite prepared to use the next candle to bring all my stats back to 1. I made yet another alt a short time back and I am really enjoying going back over the low level stuff (which goes by too quick these days if you don't watch out); so doing it again at my leisure with my main seemed quite fun.
The whole adversarial part of Seeking is what I liked the least. I never stole any tokens, not even from people who stole from me; it just seemed pointless. I did really like the agreement but it never really worked and never could 100% just cause not everyone reads the forums.
I just like to take my time and was in no rush to do the island (or spend fate/nex on refreshes). I can imagine though how others were quite excited by it, certainly after speculation that it was time limited.
In closing; as I'm sure most people know: you can't please everyone. I hope Seeking will continue in one form or other but Alexis' and Failbetter's well-being are paramount.
--
My Fallen London profile
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reedybeanz
Posts: 10
12/11/2013
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thank you NiteBrite for the explanation at least. i've been over here mildly ticked off for two days because posts had been deleted so i had no idea what had happened and why things that *other people did* should take away the only thing besides Ambition that keeps me playing.
i am of the opinion that making SMEN more and more heavily dependent on social interactions and heretofore entirely optional game mechanics has been it's biggest flaw. starveling cat exchanges were mostly innocuous; forcing players to play K&C or raise Notability or virally expand the Search to obtain enough items to progress the narrative is, imho, a marked disadvantage and disservice to less social players who just want to play a game that has always prided itself on its "civilized social media policy." remember when Unaccountably Peckish could only be gained by stealing the Handsome Lad with a Healthy Appetite? it's the same bottleneck, only now with 4+ years worth of time and money behind it. the natural progression of increasing social interactions and passing off unique items established a pecking order with far more at stake and far lower ignition points. with our opportunistic and PARTICULARLY delicious "friend" waving the Loaded Gun of Legal Action around, i can understand Alexis's actions. but I am still miserable about it.
i see no reason why the content couldn't be reworked eventually to most peoples' more-or-less satisfaction (such as it is for Seeking), but i'm sure it will take lots of time, if Alexis is doing this in his off-hours (which i did not know until this thread, which makes me even more grateful for the content we've seen so far). i would be willing to wait even quite a lot of time for Alexis to be able to make a continuation and mechanics that make him happy, as long as i know that the storyline i have been dedicated to following for so long *is* going to continue at some point. to me, the words "indefinite hiatus" are ALWAYS code for "cancelled," and faced with the possibility of losing SMEN for good, i think a lot of us could deal with it being on the back burner for a time so it can be done right.
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/reedybeanz
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/grab_bag
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David
Posts: 79
12/11/2013
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Inky Petrel wrote:
CAKE! *throws confetti* I would like to take a moment to celebrate the wonderful and engaging content I HAVE experienced, and to remember that (as OPG mentioned just now) ALL SHALL BE WELL AND ALL MANNER OF THINGS SHALL BE WELL. ♥
...now, who wants punch? And where did I put that anachronistic music playlist. Watch your step, there's a well in the middle of the dancefloor for some reason *side-eyes it*
edited by Inky Petrel on 12/11/2013
I'm sorry, there is no more cake. I seem to have eaten it. I do apologize, but I seem to be so damnably hungry these days. Let's move onto music. I know an excellent little ditty about weasels...
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Guy Scrum
Posts: 197
12/10/2013
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How many people actually made it to the Winking Isle? I'm a little confused about how all hell broke loose so quickly --- I logged out on Saturday, and by the time I came back on Sunday Alexander Feld got St. F's candle, NiteBrite was catatonic (or recovering from being catatonic), and some jerk was threatening a law suit. I'm a bit sad to have missed the mayhem, really.
I'll echo everyone else and say that SMEN content has, so far, been amazing. It's the main reason I still play the game. It's the only game that I've ever played that makes genuine (and good!) art out of long-term social interactions, and it'd be a real shame to see it go or be significantly de-fanged. But, you have to do what you have to do to keep bread on the table.
It does seem like a lot of the recent anxiety was due to a perceived acceleration in the storyline. Given all of the warnings about players not being able to finish the story despite their best (worst) intentions, and given the time-sensitive nature of St. Destin's Candle, there was a sense that players needed to act immediately or get left behind. I think it made us all a little crazy, possibly including Alexis.
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Guy%20Scrum
Interactive fidgeting writer simulation
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Malgorath
Posts: 124
12/10/2013
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merusdraconis wrote:
I'd be quite pleased if the candle phase was pulled out and turned into a more sedate, high-level Watchful storyline, and Seeking the Name came back simpler and more direct when going for the throat.
an_ocelot wrote:
...put all the lore there and make it a single trip for people to learn the Name, with some medium-onerous entrance and exit requirements.
I greatly prefer this drawn-out process of gathering the candles, each one more painful than the last, and each one giving more of the story. I've enjoyed all of the SMEN more than anything else in the game, and after stopping playing for a while, the developments in SMEN are what drew me back in. I'd like things to go as close to Alexis's original plans as possible, but maybe have the Winking Isle tinkered a bit. I think the story would lose some of its mystery and power if we cut it short or made it simpler. Even as things hit the fan, they've stayed interesting. We still don't even know what Cyriac's option was, and we were speculating to figure out the proscribed material quantity. We all had ideas, and we supported different verses, and it would be painful to mess up a few times as we test our ideas, but we would persevere, as we Seekers tend to do. I enjoy the dedicated "hardcore" players we've become through Seeking and I'd hate to see that go.
EDIT:
Guy Scrum wrote:
It does seem like a lot of the recent anxiety was due to a perceived acceleration in the storyline. Given all of the warnings about players not being able to finish the story despite their best (worst) intentions, and given the time-sensitive nature of St. Destin's Candle, there was a sense that players needed to act immediately or get left behind. I think it made us all a little crazy, possibly including Alexis.
I agree with Scrum on this. I've been meaning to grind stats and work towards an Overgoat for a while, but I've felt like I'd get too far behind in Seeking. I've just now popped away to Hunter's Keep to work on Watchful while everything's on lock down. With how often new content has been coming out and the fear of the Isle being temporary (kind of like Hallowmas and a few Destin options), we all were too worried we'd miss something if we worked on anything else or hit any snags.
edited by Malgorath on 12/10/2013
--
Phil - TRAVELLER RETURNING
Malgorath - A new member of the Neath.
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Illessa
Posts: 1
12/10/2013
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+1 to all the talk of Beaus' - I'm something of a lapsed player but came back recently because I've been lurking the Mr Eaten threads and got curious. I was hoping to start on Beaus' this week so it was a real shame to see the card suddenly lock today.
It's understandable if you think SMEN is too much of a risk, especially for a side-project, and it does sound like Winking Isle is harsh to the point of sucking some of the appeal out of it but really, it's not like you haven't gone out of your way to warn us what we're getting into .
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
12/10/2013
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Agreed - while I don't Seek, and I'm not exactly going to -enjoy- Seekers having a hard time of it, it's certainly atmospheric (and entirely within the stated bounds of the story, mechanically and narratively.) But, SMEN has been something Alexis and the players have clearly massively enjoyed, and it sorrows me to see either distressed by it!
--
Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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Dolan
Posts: 296
12/10/2013
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Thanks! However, I get the impression that I've somehow caused offense - if so, I apologize. I thought my circumstances placed me within the category of affected individuals you outlined in the OP, so I spoke up, but maybe the process of checking database records and such is more involved and irritating than I thought. Sorry for being a pain in the ass, I know this whole debacle has probably eaten (ha ha) up much more of your time than you'd like. Shutting up now!
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
12/10/2013
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babelfishwars wrote:
I am sorrow.
Well, obviously I am joy that it's not gone for good (I'm taking your 'hope' as certainty) - but I liked the risk of being in an experimental sometimes bugged sometimes buggering part of the game.
In a masochistic way, it felt special to be going against the game and taking on in game and out of game risks.
I want to be special, dammit. :-(
You're still special. Everyone who's gotten this far will be able to claim to have done all this back when it wasn't supported. We can be like the stereotypical elderly person! XD
Edit: Seriously though, I hear ya. That's part of why I participated in the content. We may never know what tricks Alexis had in store for us, and that is a shame. However, the content is excellent and I look forward to seeing it come back when it's ready. ^^
edited by Sara Hysaro on 12/10/2013
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro
Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.
Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
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merusdraconis
Posts: 52
12/10/2013
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I do rather like the idea of storylines that are absolutely terrible choices - there are a few of these in Fallen London, and Mr Eaten was the big one. I liked the idea of it.
That said, the vast majority of the love in recent months appeared to be going into the Mr Eaten content. (This is probably because Failbetter are working on Sunless Sea, but Alexis is updating Seeking on his own time.) Basically every new update added a grind with a smattering of new storyline for the regular players, and for the Seekers they got some new and bizarre development on top of that. It was ridiculously punishing, yes, but there's really not a lot to do at the upper levels of the game, other than wait for the opportunity card that lets you advance the few storylines you haven't done yet. The Eaten stuff gives you a long-term goal and intriguing locations like the subverted carnival and the Winking Isle. It delves into a mystery that we've been held at arm's length from, so it's not like the Jack storyline where you could investigate Jack from the outside or, very unwisely, become Jack. There's no outside to what happened to Mr Eaten - if you want to know about how a Master could be killed, you have no choice. It's the storyline with the cleverest new mechanics - having an object that you have to pass between players! - and the ridiculously convoluted goals just so happen to give you several goals to be working on at once, instead of just grinding the same storyline over and over again to get the one resource that's still relevant to you.
I'd be quite pleased if the candle phase was pulled out and turned into a more sedate, high-level Watchful storyline, and Seeking the Name came back simpler and more direct when going for the throat.
edited by merusdraconis on 12/10/2013
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Kade Carrion (an_ocelot)
Posts: 1372
12/10/2013
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Alexis, FWIW re: Dolan's request, I would have understood your offer to be a refund of any Fate or Nex expended on Winking Isle, no matter the source.
NiteBrite, I really don't think you need to apologize . . .
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Possibly-Useful Things: Spreadsheets and hints and link collections, oh my.
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Laluzi
Posts: 456
12/10/2013
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The problem with Winking Isle in design was that it encouraged people to refresh actions with Fate, and then often gave them nothing to show for it. That will upset even the most level-headed of players, like NiteBrite, although they'll have the good grace to admit that it was their own choice to do it. But people don't like spending Fate on nothing. It could send less calm ones on the legal warpath, even though Legal Threat Guy was actually just a (insert choice word[s] of your liking here). I think the action cost, combined with the heavy factors of things that could go wrong, were a little too much, unless there was some way to prevent people from using Fate there. Because no matter what you say, people are still going to do it, and they're still going to complain no matter how much they were warned, apparently.
It's neither here nor there now, I suppose. But while it was gloriously punishing, and very, very much an experience of starving yourself on a blasted speck of rock for no purpose other than your own insane pilgrimage, the way it was built was rather dangerous, as it turned out.
edited by Laluzi on 12/10/2013
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Feel free to ask if you need something! Uninterested in Trailing the Affluent Photographer.
Mercer - an enigmatic and brutal individual. Frightfully strong. Has even more frightful manners.
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Kade Carrion (an_ocelot)
Posts: 1372
12/11/2013
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Calming cat for those without actual cat available:
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Social Actions: send them to Kade Carrion (she/her; no Tournament of Lilies, please). an_ocelot has gone NORTH and cannot benefit from social actions!
Possibly-Useful Things: Spreadsheets and hints and link collections, oh my.
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Laluzi
Posts: 456
12/10/2013
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Neon, get on that cat petting. I am suffering from severe cat withdrawal already. It's getting critical over here.
Having said that, I'm still panicking, now that I've noticed candles are 'retired'. Retired has a rather permanent ring to it. e_e
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Feel free to ask if you need something! Uninterested in Trailing the Affluent Photographer.
Mercer - an enigmatic and brutal individual. Frightfully strong. Has even more frightful manners.
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Swinter
Posts: 66
12/10/2013
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Hmm. Lots have been said here, but I think I might just write something of my own too.
I'm not a seeker. I did the first tiny bits of it, before abandoning the content quickly. Not because I thought it wasn't worth the effort, but because I had already decided that my character isn't allowed to die.
The thing is... I got talked into joining this game by lurker friends. They don't participate much in the community at all, but the most talked about content was SMEN. In fact, I'd say that this is one of the most exciting content in the whole game, even for me who's on the sidelines.
It is, therefore, my opinion that removing or defanging this content seriously damages the draw of the game.
On the other hand: I would be all in favour of making it actually fully supported, if rarely updated, content. Especially since you seemed to have so much fun punishing your masochistic player base.
And finally, in regards to Dolans request:
It was perfectly reasonable. Unless someone is cheating their way into Fate, you're doing the game a disservice by treating it any differently compared to Nex. At least in regards to issues of refunds.
Heck, if a bug in the game made me loose an Overgoat, I'd darn well ask to have it given back to me, and that one would have had even less "value" than the Fate. (Actually, in this case it'd have even more value to me personally. I wouldn't bat an eyelid at loosing 10-20 Nex. But loosing my Overgoat to a bug? Oh heck no! If I didn't get it back, I'd quit the game so quickly you'd hardly see the tentacled end of my rubbery companion! xD)
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Swinter
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Laluzi
Posts: 456
12/10/2013
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All right. Thanks for giving us a place to run around in circles in instead of locking the thread for derailing its original purpose.
I'm just panicking. I think a lot of us are. Hence the 'here's what I think could be changed', in hopes that you won't change anything else, or just people going 'aaaaahhhhh noo don't close it nooo what can we do to appease you'. Bottom line, I like Seeking Mr Eaten's Name, a lot. More than any other content on this site. I don't want to see it go.
I guess, on the other hand, that that's pretentious of me? You're the one getting all the complaints, after all. You know what people are complaining about and I don't. I guess I'm just going to have to go a week without screaming out windows and eating my pets and generally acting like a lunatic. Alas! I'd just gotten to that point, and I was having such fun with it.
Flyte pointed out something that I'd really been neglecting, though, and I apologize. It has to hurt, having your own story get pushed around like this so much. It's kind of easy to forget that this sucks more for you than it does for any of us.
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Feel free to ask if you need something! Uninterested in Trailing the Affluent Photographer.
Mercer - an enigmatic and brutal individual. Frightfully strong. Has even more frightful manners.
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David Lombard
Posts: 79
12/11/2013
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Ain't no party like an S MEN party cuz, um, everyone is wretched and despondent.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/David~Lombard
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Inky Petrel
Posts: 370
12/13/2013
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Much happiness that SMEN will continue in the future AND be part of FL proper. This is exactly what I had hoped for. Much sadness that Alexis will no longer be interacting as much on the forums, I shall miss the Tiger greatly  (at least that's how I interpret his post)
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Re: Fallen London, please don't invite me to things or send me things, I'm only on occasionally, so you will waste your candle Thank you.
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Theus
Posts: 311
12/12/2013
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Trenloco wrote:
Seems worthless though , the prospect of having endured the Quest for nothing seems just daunting
Two things:
First, this was always going to be the case. The warnings are genuine and plentiful.
Second, intrinsic value is a thing, and a great one. The case could be made that the entire story is a paradigm of intrinsic motivation.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Hefty~Harrison
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Laluzi
Posts: 456
1/11/2014
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The 'this content will return soon' has been there for a while, but I hadn't noticed the 'content retired' was gone. Woohoo!
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Feel free to ask if you need something! Uninterested in Trailing the Affluent Photographer.
Mercer - an enigmatic and brutal individual. Frightfully strong. Has even more frightful manners.
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Laluzi
Posts: 456
1/5/2014
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NiteBrite, I don't understand you. You're still amazing. But I don't understand you at all.
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Feel free to ask if you need something! Uninterested in Trailing the Affluent Photographer.
Mercer - an enigmatic and brutal individual. Frightfully strong. Has even more frightful manners.
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Suitov
Posts: 89
1/9/2014
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When all this went down, I'd just created an alt for the specific purpose of forcing him to seek the Name, because I found I'd grown too attached to my main character to destroy them. While awaiting Death by Water dreams, I took advantage of the advent calendar link and had my main turn back at the brink, then un-free themself of the Name, ready to help the alt later if needed.
So I got caught right at an inopportune time when neither of my characters has any Seeking. Hard luck, and I can't deny I'm somewhat resentful that legal-threaty-person spoiled the fun at the worst moment for me. (Well, could have been worse still if I'd been much deeper into the content, but then at least I'd have seen some of the juicy text!)
edited by Suitov on 1/9/2014
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Hello, savoury persons. Shall we become acquainted?
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Kade Carrion (an_ocelot)
Posts: 1372
1/5/2014
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NiteBrite, that's hilarious (but you realize you're counting on there still *being* candles . . . )
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Possibly-Useful Things: Spreadsheets and hints and link collections, oh my.
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Leraika
Posts: 56
12/12/2013
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All truly will be well, it seems.
Pity about Alexis, though; I quite liked seeing him on the forums.
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Leraika - Smoldering Academic and occasional woman-about-town
Feel free to send me requests!
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Emain Ablach
Posts: 348
12/13/2013
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Same, I liked seeing him around here talking and messing with us.
Even if I did never benefit of some "special gifts" like the card of winking isle or some messages, it was very funny to see players getting them and everyone being excited
I'm truly happy that the story will continue. A little bit sad that it will be "domesticated", cause the danger was thrilling, but if it's the cost for seeing the SMEN story continues, I feel ok.
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Went NORTH. Got salted. Never came back. We won't remember him.
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Emain%20Ablach
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Dharlome
Posts: 51
12/24/2013
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Unaccountably Peckish isn't strictly SMEN content. You can easily have fairly high UP without ever being in the quest. It's just atmospheric and creepy.
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Lady Red
Posts: 517
12/13/2013
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No, no, Spacemarine, please funnel all your time and energy into the rat sending simulator. If I can't send millions of rats in santa hats to unsuspecting victims, in the spirit of yuletide glory, I will be severely disappointed.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Lady~Red
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LouBlue
Posts: 53
12/13/2013
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Wonderful news! Ever since I learned that SMEN was a "side project" of Alexis, which was after he locked the content, I admit that I was confused by it, mostly for the reasons he put up in the blog post. Now looking at the entire history of it, I can understand the decision to make it a pet project, but I think that he and the staff have made the right decision to bring the search for the name back into the fold of the game. Even if it means that we'll be waiting longer for content. Thank you and a happy holiday season to Alexis, everyone at FBG, and Mr Eaten!
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My name is Joshua Temple. I first came to spy, I'll admit. I figured Fallen London was no harder than Canaan. But I stopped sending letters up some time ago. I'm a Londoner, and they can find other spies.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Joshua~Temple
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Playersideblog
Posts: 397
12/11/2013
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Blackleaf wrote:
Is it just me or is Nitebrite's post sorta... half not there? theres giant spaces of various size in it that seem like they should have text.
Although you could highlight it, I prefer to think that it has been...devoured.
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My profile
I am now a Correspondent, and no longer able to accept invitations as an Author. (Or so I believe.)
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KatarinaNavane
Posts: 462
12/11/2013
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Karaeir wrote:
an_ocelot wrote:
I love the new thread title.
...but where are all the drinks?
You can't have drinks at a SMEN party, we'll all try to drown ourselves with them.
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Storynexus sn Katarina Navane.
My art page (much of which is dark, Victorian, and/or full of tentacles): http://www.facebook.com/demonkittydesigns
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Laluzi
Posts: 456
12/11/2013
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Er, yes, that was what I meant; thank you, Dawson. Sometimes it is difficult to keep a clear mind with all the secrets I know. The whispers, the waters. The drowning. Sometimes one forgets.
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Feel free to ask if you need something! Uninterested in Trailing the Affluent Photographer.
Mercer - an enigmatic and brutal individual. Frightfully strong. Has even more frightful manners.
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theodor_gylden
Posts: 117
12/12/2013
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Laluzi wrote:
Well, if I'm allowed to speculate... (and this is most rampant speculation, far-flung from fact)
Also; here there be spoilers. Massive spoilers. You have been warned.
...
Excellent speculation, rampant or no!
[spoiler]I'd never made the connection between speaking of Mr Eaten and gaining the Duchess's favor! But it makes sense that they'd share some history. They are both none too keen on the Bazaar, and the Bazaar is none too keen on either of them. And I'm intrigued by the Breath of the Void text -- my theory about the Pharaoh being Akhenaten is just that, a theory, but he did establish his city as the seat of the sun-god Aten. And considering that there have been attempts to communicate with the Sun using the Correspondence, and Neathy Mysteries for the Advanced Student abounds with theories about a tragic love affair between the Bazaar and the Sun ... Hm. I'm slipping into crackpot territory here. But let's just say speaking to the Sun would be in Akhenaten's interest, and there's lots of room therein for him to betray the Bazaar and the Masters.
To bring in further Neathlore, I suspect What the Thunder Said has .... something to do with all of this. In later dreams, you learn the Correspondence from the Thunder, which could be another way for the Pharaoh or his daughters to learn it, if not from Mr Eaten. And there's a sacrifice reminiscent of the sacrifice you'll find practiced on Mutton Island if you poke around a bit, and the whole place seems to be home to a sort of Mr Eaten cult. What, oh what, does it mean.
Also I was about to ask whether these God-Eaters have anything to do with the vision I saw through the black lens, looked it up, and realized oh. Cat, Serpent, Bird. The God-Eaters consumed Mr Eaten and now they rule a tomb-colony across the Unterzee. Or at least that's what I'm going with.
ETA: If you ask the Northbond Parliamentarian about the tomb-colony, she says They fear those who seek the name. Perhaps we can undo everything they've built. So there's that.[/spoiler]
edited by theodor_gylden on 12/12/2013
--
Journal: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/echo_theodor
Annotations & Epistles: http://theodor-gylden.dreamwidth.org/
Storylet: http://theodor-gylden.dreamwidth.org/11160.html
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Krayven
Posts: 110
12/12/2013
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Whoops...
I only just came across this thread, after a break from the forum due to my typically insane irl job.
Here's one more voice/vote to the 'less likely option, that it comes back - and also, isn't de-fanged in any way.
FWIW, getting as far as St. Destins Candle, (SMEN 8 and Marsh Mired, with 4/7 candles earned - can be done without any permanent loss or negative effects that can't be recouped or life that can't be rebuilt. Even Scarred, Stained and Chained effects can be lost at the 'nightmare carnival', if you want to truly 'free of the name'. This to me is very fair, and makes you stay at the SMEN effort that much harder like a bad gambler tbh).
I can't speak for 'E', no-one figured out Cyriacs code, Forthigans.. well we all know, and Gawain never unlocked. But still.
The lore offsetting the unbridled brutality of it, is so compelling, and even with SMEN, you can prepare yourself accordingly, (and even within characters).
For all the 'irreversibly damned' stuff - my character never was. Got to SMEN 8, and 3/7 candles, (so close to 4/7, was literally about to devour my slowcakes entry, when the lock came in). And so far no permanent losses I couldn't re-earn, and still on 180 stats across the board.
Whatever happens, SMEN has been an absolute riot. Literally.. my eating habits have caused a couple of riots in veilgarden 
Thanks very much for making it - especially seeing as it was a side-project.
edited by Kravan on 12/12/2013
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MY PROFILE: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Howard~John~Abrahall
- A dreamer is one who can only find his way by moonlight, and his punishment is that he sees the dawn before the rest of the world.
- Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future.
- Oscar Wilde
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theodor_gylden
Posts: 117
12/12/2013
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Sackville wrote:
Aspeon wrote:
The text on the Saint Forthigan's acquisition mirrors the mouseover for the Violet Amber. (http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/Violet_Amber) Interesting.
Also, the text read by the Special Constable when he visited at Hallowmass.
Now the bit about being sold for freedom from chains forged in a horizon-place and from the treachery of daughters is new. Is it worth speculating over what it could mean? (Isn't it always? If my theory about the Second City is correct, Akhetaten literally means 'the horizon of Aten,' and there are multiple references throughout the game to the Pharoah's daughters -- on Corpsecage Island, at Polythreme, in Mr Sacks's sack in 2010, inside the well. Outside the game, when Mr Eaten still spoke to players in DMs, he said the Pharoah's daughters were 'most hospitable.' Was he involved in their treachery or a victim of it? Who is the 'I' in the aforementioned text -- Mr Eaten? The Second City itself? That would explain what 'you sold me' means. When will we find out.)
(Suffice to say I love the Mr Eaten storyline because it makes me think. I'm sure it still will when it comes back again, and who knows! Perhaps I'll stick with it this time.)
--
Journal: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/echo_theodor
Annotations & Epistles: http://theodor-gylden.dreamwidth.org/
Storylet: http://theodor-gylden.dreamwidth.org/11160.html
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Kade Carrion (an_ocelot)
Posts: 1372
12/10/2013
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I love the new thread title.
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Social Actions: send them to Kade Carrion (she/her; no Tournament of Lilies, please). an_ocelot has gone NORTH and cannot benefit from social actions!
Possibly-Useful Things: Spreadsheets and hints and link collections, oh my.
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Karaeir
Posts: 90
12/10/2013
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an_ocelot wrote:
I love the new thread title.
...but where are all the drinks?
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Karaeir, an inescapable, sagacious, midnight and sinister lady
Social actions welcome, except for SMEN and Affluent Photographer.
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neongrey
Posts: 29
12/11/2013
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Aw yeah, this cat purrs so loud and she is so cuddly. :3
... nobody eat the cats.
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My Profile
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Shadowhand
Posts: 197
12/10/2013
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Laluzi wrote:
I think Winking Isle needs work in its design, but everything else, I have nothing to complain about. It's punishing, it's difficult, it's slow, and it's glorious, because your character is struggling through a mire of insanity and betrayal and pain to an end they are not guaranteed to reach.
Definitely, I wouldn't backtrack on any other Eaten content. The Carnival may have had a few leery options, but the balance of punishment and reward has been about just perfect till now. Like a succulent serving of poisoned meat with just the right amount of spice.
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Twitter: @mortshadow - Fallen London: Shadowhand
Benjamin Gabbay, a silly and crafty individual of mysterious and indistinct intentions
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babelfishwars
Administrator
Posts: 1152
12/10/2013
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I am sorrow.
Well, obviously I am joy that it's not gone for good (I'm taking your 'hope' as certainty) - but I liked the risk of being in an experimental sometimes bugged sometimes buggering part of the game.
In a masochistic way, it felt special to be going against the game and taking on in game and out of game risks.
I want to be special, dammit. :-(
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Mars, God of Fish; Leaning Tower of Fish
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Alexis Kennedy
Posts: 1374
12/10/2013
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Yes, it would make a difference. I offered a Nex refund because I understood players were making claims against me in respect of money they had spent on the content I created in my personal time. It didn't even cross my mind that someone would make a refund request in respect of virtual currency they had not purchased, and I hadn't checked that.
I'm going to take a few minutes to calm down and collect my thoughts before I post further.
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Dolan
Posts: 296
12/10/2013
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Well I *did* purchase Nex fairly recently, but since the Nex I purchased was Nex and in-game gifted Nex becomes Fate, the Fate was necessarily spent first.
EDIT: just to make clear, I don't expect to get a Nex refund of the Fate I used. A Fate refund would be fine.
edited by Dolan on 12/10/2013
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Laluzi
Posts: 456
12/10/2013
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Not to mention, all new SMEN content, including Winking Isle, is locked for now. It's also impossible to join the search at the moment, so if you're currently doing Marsh-Mired, like me, don't betray other players! There's a good chance it could be messed up. Stick with Matriarchs or stockpile your enigmas for now.
I'm very disappointed and disgusted that somebody would try to take advantage of the situation and cheese Alexis out of free Fate. Tensions were high enough before they leaped in and made matters expontentially worse. Pushing legal matters is very, very serious, especially when you're just pulling it out of nowhere for coercion. Normally, I'm very, very impressed by the maturity of this community, and I've been proud to be among the ranks of Seekers, but I guess they're everywhere.
edited by Laluzi on 12/10/2013
--
Feel free to ask if you need something! Uninterested in Trailing the Affluent Photographer.
Mercer - an enigmatic and brutal individual. Frightfully strong. Has even more frightful manners.
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Alexander Feld
Posts: 348
12/10/2013
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NiteBrite wrote:
I want to publicly apologize for my involvement in this whole affair. I want it to be known, that I was and am satisfied with my experience on winking island. It was distressing, and full of unique sufferings that I had not expected or anticipated and it did cause me a brief episode of panic. But that's the beauty of eaten content, it affects you just so. The bug was unfortunate, but ultimately did not impact my overall experience negatively.
edited by NiteBrite on 12/10/2013
I commend you on your remarkably optimistic/masochistic attitude.
--
I am a star-gazer, story-eater, and a smelter of words.
I filch hidden things from hidden places, to hide once more in my dark cabinet of curiosities
Alexander Feld, the mad, damned, lord of seekers.
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Emain Ablach
Posts: 348
12/10/2013
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Thank you for all your efforts. Hope you will find a suitable solution.
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Went NORTH. Got salted. Never came back. We won't remember him.
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Emain%20Ablach
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babelfishwars
Administrator
Posts: 1152
12/10/2013
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Spacemarine9 wrote:
If you end up defanging SMEN I may end up doing something absurd, like playing Dark Souls with one hand while juggling hot coals with the other and operating FL using only eye movements, just to maintain the difficulty.
... ... You bring me happy.
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Mars, God of Fish; Leaning Tower of Fish
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EmilyAriel
Posts: 124
12/11/2013
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neongrey wrote:
Aw yeah, this cat purrs so loud and she is so cuddly. :3
... nobody eat the cats.
Even for seekers, some things are just beyond the pale. Thousands of rats? A mere trifle. But not a cat.
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MidnightVoyager
Posts: 858
12/10/2013
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I am no longer a Seeker, but I do carry the marks from it. I wonder now... if Seeking is locked down, will things like the card to sell your soul still be affected by the stains on my soul? or will I just have to discard them or pick the "go away" option?
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Midnight Voyager - A blood-cousin to predators. Collector of beasts. Affably mad.
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Saharan
Posts: 247
12/10/2013
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MidnightVoyager wrote:
I am no longer a Seeker, but I do carry the marks from it. I wonder now... if Seeking is locked down, will things like the card to sell your soul still be affected by the stains on my soul? or will I just have to discard them or pick the "go away" option?
It's a good question, certainly. If Seeking does stay, even in some form deemed "more palatable for the unwashed masses", I suspect the Stains will stick around. If it's wiped from the map completely... well, personally, I think a storylet that lets each user decide whether to keep them as mementos, or wash their hands of SMEN entirely would probably be the best course of action.
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My Saint - My Twitter - My Seeker
"To light one candle to God and another to the Devils is the principle of wisdom."
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Urthdigger
Posts: 939
12/11/2013
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Now that I've seen NiteBrite's explanation, I really wish nothing had changed. That this whole drama hadn't unfolded, that I could be able to experience the island in its natural state. Oh well.
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Looking for second chances to maximize your loot output from those troublesome storylets? Check out our handy gang of volunteers in this thread, or even volunteer yourself!
@Urthdigger on twitter
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Aspeon
Posts: 311
12/11/2013
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I gave my cat a good pet on behalf of anyone who's still freaking out.
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A raccooning will not be postponed indefinitely.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Aspeon
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Kade Carrion (an_ocelot)
Posts: 1372
12/11/2013
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NiteBrite, thank you for the exhaustive discussion, especially of the bugs, and please be less hard on yourself.
--
Social Actions: send them to Kade Carrion (she/her; no Tournament of Lilies, please). an_ocelot has gone NORTH and cannot benefit from social actions!
Possibly-Useful Things: Spreadsheets and hints and link collections, oh my.
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Saharan
Posts: 247
12/11/2013
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NiteBrite wrote:
Giant wall of text If that's indeed how the Island was supposed to work, that's actually kind of brilliant.
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My Saint - My Twitter - My Seeker
"To light one candle to God and another to the Devils is the principle of wisdom."
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LouBlue
Posts: 53
12/10/2013
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I understand the impulse to curtail the storyline based on the (ridiculous) complaints leveled at the game. However, I now feel like the last few weeks of my time in game have been kind of for nothing. I have been grinding notoriety, a part of the game I HATE because you're constantly working against the clock of Time, to get it up to higher levels. And after all that work, I'm at 6 notability, almost ready to convert MW to my seventh, and what I was working for is gone. The problem I have is that I can't convert the Notability to anything else--there's nothing to spend it on--and both it and my Making Waves are going to just vanish into the aether. That sucks, and I'm wrestling with some pretty negative emotions right now.
I appreciate all the hard work that's been put into all aspects of this game, particularly Mr Eaten's name, but this event has left a real sour taste in my mouth. I've been spending the first week of the action-saturated December essentially just burning up those actions (and double, since I became an Exceptional Friend!) on a wild goose chase. Wow.
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My name is Joshua Temple. I first came to spy, I'll admit. I figured Fallen London was no harder than Canaan. But I stopped sending letters up some time ago. I'm a Londoner, and they can find other spies.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Joshua~Temple
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Inky Petrel
Posts: 370
12/12/2013
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I was at SMEN 7 (or was it 8? Whichever one it is that starts giving you the "Soul/Mind/Body and the number" cards) ...and then JUST before all the drama, like a day before, I opted out of the quest via the "number of candles" card...and INSTANTLY regretted it (I may have had a beer or two and was feeling impulsive, whoops!) and now that things are on hold I'm even sadder that I don't have the "seeking the Name" quality anymore to keep as a reminder. I had already resolved to play the whole thing through again from the start since that Advent code kindly removed my "free of the Name" quality (THAT was a lucky piece of timing, because I really did regret giving it up)
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Re: Fallen London, please don't invite me to things or send me things, I'm only on occasionally, so you will waste your candle Thank you.
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Alexander Feld
Posts: 348
12/12/2013
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Regarding the speculation...
[spoiler]Since reading the Veils-Velvet text, I've had a bit of a theory forming. Remember Halloween, with all the Masters flying to Judgement? It proves two very important things. One, other creatures can become Masters. Two, Mr Veils was of 'lowly origin*.'
So, I wonder, was Mr Veils the Pharaoh? Did he betray Candles so he could replace him?
*This does, of course, raise the question of whether any of the Masters started out how they are, but that's beside the point.[/spoiler]
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I am a star-gazer, story-eater, and a smelter of words.
I filch hidden things from hidden places, to hide once more in my dark cabinet of curiosities
Alexander Feld, the mad, damned, lord of seekers.
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Elene
Posts: 184
12/12/2013
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I must say, being away for a few days to study for finals, I seem to have missed quite the kerfulffle. Its a pity it ended as it did with regards to SMEN, even though I've only ever been a spectator to the whole thing.
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Elene: Generally open for invitations. No cats or Photographers though.
May or may not actually be Mr Wines.
Associates: Grey Colors, Elene2
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Spacemarine9
Posts: 2234
12/11/2013
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Also one of the Marsh Mired betrayals. And the Bazaar tweeted most of it once. One of the Lorn Fluke destinies quotes it as well.
edited by Spacemarine9 on 12/11/2013
--
my rats will blot out the sun
Ratgames
FL lore/mechanics questions and answers
#FallenLondon IRC (irc.synirc.net) Channel! Click to join via Mibbit.
#SunlessSea IRC channel! Like the above, but zee-ier.
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
12/11/2013
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Wait, did you go and buy all your Matriarchs at once? Man. You were gonna be in for a nasty surprise.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro
Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.
Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
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Aspeon
Posts: 311
12/11/2013
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The text on the Saint Forthigan's acquisition mirrors the mouseover for the Violet Amber. (http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/Violet_Amber) Interesting.
--
A raccooning will not be postponed indefinitely.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Aspeon
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
12/11/2013
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Highlight it.
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro
Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.
Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
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Loon
Posts: 379
12/13/2013
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I'm not actively Seeking yet, but I intend on doing this at some point, and I'm glad it will be possible!
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My main character Krawald can be found at http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Krawald and welcomes all social actions bar photographers.
My alt Loogan Cuthoat can be found at http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Loogan~Cuthoat and welcomes all social actions bar cats and photographers.
My alt Ally Mooney can be found at http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Ally~Mooney and welcomes all social actions including patronage, though they are a bit confused by cats in boxes.
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Mordaine Barimen
Posts: 670
12/17/2013
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I haven't done any Seeking (I'm just now gathering some three-card lodgings!) but its reputation was part of the reason I decided to play this game (and buy a few Nex.)
I'm a little disappointed to hear that it's on indefinite hiatus as of now. Hopefully it will return at some point and I can resume pondering if this character or an alt would decide to throw everything they've done and cared about away in a fruitless quest for knowledge...
--
I'm sorry, but due to policy clarifications, I will no longer be giving detailed mechanics advice on the forums.
If you still need help, try the IRC channel.
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OPG
Posts: 387
12/17/2013
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The hiatus is not indefinite. Our favorite Mr. will return next year, as detailed by this fascinating blog post detailing the background of and events that occured when the excrement flew into the fan.
--
overpoweredginger, an irresistible, magnificent, midnight and sagacious gentleman.
A Fallen London Roleplay Community exists. Contrary to popular belief, Richard Nixon is not involved.
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Malgorath
Posts: 124
12/12/2013
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A reckoning will not be postponed!
http://www.failbettergames.com/?p=1331
I am very happy that SMEN will continue. And it seems like it won't be changed too much, and what does change probably won't be as bad as we'd think. But it appears that Winking Isle might be gone for good given "And the chunk of content which kicked off this particular drama is already gone." But this is still something to celebrate and I'm looking forward to 2014 even more now.
--
Phil - TRAVELLER RETURNING
Malgorath - A new member of the Neath.
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lady ciel
Posts: 2548
12/12/2013
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Sorry to hear that about Winking Isle. It sounds like it was the same sort of bug that hit the first people to get into the Cave of the Nadir mixed with the rumour that it was ephemeral content that created such a big problem for Alexis.
I'm sure that whatever he decides to do next year will be for the best. Of course all this hit at the same time as the Seasonal content and I am sure that there is also a lot of time being spent on Sunless Sea as well.
So the last thing that was needed was all this ... oh well time for us all to cool down and build up resources and stats for any future content.
--
ciel
Sorry RL means I am not a very active player at the moment. No social actions unless you are prepared to wait and definitely no sparring or other mult-action things.
No Calling Cards or boxed cats please. Will take dupes on the affluent photographers. Other social invitations welcome. Parabolan Kittens usually available, send me an in-game social action saying you want one and I will get one to you as soon as possible.
storynexus name - reveurciel
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EmilyAriel
Posts: 124
12/12/2013
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Scarlet Fenwick wrote:
Some of the Sun theories make me even more contemplative of the destinies contained in "Liberation of Night".
Somewhat tangentially, while I know the revolutionaries aren't particularly popular around these parts, my alignment with them definitely comes from a similarly nihilistic and self-destructive place as my Seeking does. Of course, my destiny is to realize what horrors I've helped to bring about, so maybe I'll come to my senses regarding the Name as well.
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Lady Red
Posts: 517
12/12/2013
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Many hurrahs indeed for SMEN continuing in the new year!
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Lady~Red
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
1/8/2014
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You are wrong in thinking that Ambition: Enigma is only for Clay Men.
Edit: You also seem to be wrong about the Watchful check. I just checked, and higher Watchful gives you a higher chance at succeeding at the check.
edited by Sara Hysaro on 1/8/2014
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro
Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.
Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
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Kermitron
Posts: 29
1/2/2014
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I only just recently discovered this was a thing, I'd been hoarding enigmas awaiting my chance to increase my MArsh-mired. I will continue to do so! I have put my character through a lot of pain and turmoil and I had no idea there was any new content because I'd been stalled by the need to gather tokens via K&C.
Onwards into misery!
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Asclepius Unbound
Posts: 389
1/11/2014
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I've remained quiet throughout all the shenanigans, partly because I wasn't well at the time, and partly because Christmas, but I'm very much looking forward to the Seeking Road continuing. And I still have my three candles as badges of honour.
We will find it, you know. We will. We must.
--
Alas, Asclepius Unbound is now forever beyond the reach of invitations. A successful Seeker.
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Zeel
Posts: 257
3/24/2014
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I think it will, since they promised it would and there are new options showing for it. It's just not high priority at the moment due to all the other things going on. (Believe me, when it comes out I will squeal with glee then die a few more times).
--
http://www.fallenlondon.com/Profile/Zeel - Zeel, also known as the Hollow Hellion. A soulless, heartless, empty individual who will only deal with those who are advantageous to him.
http://www.fallenlondon.com/Profile/Jass The Sly Socialite, or the Devious Rogue, depending where you see her. Jass lives a double life, alternating between the God-fearing, popular socialite and one of the many crime-lords of London.
IF YOU WANT A PARABOLAN KITTEN please send me a social engagement or menace reduction to either account, preferably not Coffee at Caligula's.
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babelfishwars
Administrator
Posts: 1152
3/24/2014
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Zeek wrote:
I think it will, since they promised it would and there are new options showing for it. It's just not high priority at the moment due to all the other things going on. (Believe me, when it comes out I will squeal with glee then die a few more times).
They've recently announced the beta date for Sunless Sea. I suspect that hitting that will be priority at the moment, and once that's done, perhaps they'll glance back at us to make us suffer blissfully once more.
--
Mars, God of Fish; Leaning Tower of Fish
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Trenloco
Posts: 59
9/19/2014
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SMEN is on hiatus , and I guess Alexis is too preoccupied with sunless sea to resume it atm . Now lets stop necroing this thread so he doesnt get mad
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Trenloco
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