LouBlue
Posts: 53
12/11/2013
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@OPG Oh yeah, I'm not saying "don't be miffed." Your feelings are your own, and valid. So are mine. I'm sitting on Notability 7 now... woo. But best =/= perfect. We got unlucky. (I'm sorry you lost fate, that does stink.) Because of what happened, tempers of those who make and play this game were running pretty high, so... well, there are worse alternatives to pulling the plug, perhaps temporarily.
@NiteBrite: Thanks for the update. It's very informative to get the whole story, and I think that just establishing *what happened* benefits us all. Thanks again.
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My name is Joshua Temple. I first came to spy, I'll admit. I figured Fallen London was no harder than Canaan. But I stopped sending letters up some time ago. I'm a Londoner, and they can find other spies.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Joshua~Temple
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Kade Carrion (an_ocelot)
Posts: 1372
12/11/2013
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NiteBrite, thank you for the exhaustive discussion, especially of the bugs, and please be less hard on yourself.
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Social Actions: send them to Kade Carrion (she/her; no Tournament of Lilies, please). an_ocelot has gone NORTH and cannot benefit from social actions!
Possibly-Useful Things: Spreadsheets and hints and link collections, oh my.
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Kade Carrion (an_ocelot)
Posts: 1372
12/11/2013
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(Meanwhile, I was actually *gasp* talking to someone and absent-mindedly misclicked in the Fidgeting Writer and lost myself an Enigma. Drat it. It's the principle of the thing, now.)
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Social Actions: send them to Kade Carrion (she/her; no Tournament of Lilies, please). an_ocelot has gone NORTH and cannot benefit from social actions!
Possibly-Useful Things: Spreadsheets and hints and link collections, oh my.
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Saharan
Posts: 247
12/11/2013
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NiteBrite wrote:
Giant wall of text If that's indeed how the Island was supposed to work, that's actually kind of brilliant.
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My Saint - My Twitter - My Seeker
"To light one candle to God and another to the Devils is the principle of wisdom."
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MaskedGentleman
Posts: 339
12/11/2013
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NiteBrite, you might want to repost that. I would hate for anyone to miss such a detailed and intelligent post just because it is at the bottom of a page. I would also like to take a moment and state that if this debacle had occurred in another gaming community I imagine that rather than introspective discussions and, I personally feel rather unjustified, self blame there would be much more yelling, screaming, capslocked posts filled with words that would need to be quickly deleted by a moderator. I may not be a Seeker, but posts like this do make me glad to be part of this community.
edited by MaskedGentleman on 12/11/2013
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I would like to thank this community and game for the many years of joy you have brought me. May you find your Heart's Desire.
Daniel Redwood
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NiteBrite
Posts: 1019
12/11/2013
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Repost per maskedgentleman's request:
Now that I’ve actually had some sleep and time to think I can see the big picture now, what happened, what was supposed to happen, and where it all went horribly wrong. And honestly? I can’t help but laugh.
This post is going to be a winking island spoilers heavy post so I am including spoiler tags and color text to hid spoilers within the spoiler, but hopefully it will be very informative to those who wish to know. Be warned, it discusses mechanics and can shred a lot of the mystery around the island. It’s my understanding that the way winking island was supposed to work is
[spoiler] 1. A player gains or loses a random amount of fasting and meditating (F&M) between 1 and 10 on a 10 action storylet. Win or lose, the player gains menace.
2. When menace hits 8, the island kicks the player off and removes all of their F&M. (this not happening properly was the bug).
3. There is no way while on the island to reduce ones menace. (this is where I and alexander went wrong. Alexander by exploiting Christmas cards. I by exploiting stored social actions.)
4. A player, having discovered that high menace destroys all progress will learn to make small trips to the island, gain a bit of menace, then leave to heal. A successful completion of winking island will have the player making several trips back … and forthigan (the candle name is a clever pun ahaha XD).
5. High value scraps items can boost progress making the journey faster and more assured. Uncapped items like veils-velvet give minor amounts of progress but no menace. Other items give more progress, but can only be used in specific ranges of F&M.
So that’s what –should- have happened. Where did it all go wrong. The first issue was a bug. A very minor bug that actually, if it had been known in advance would have been extremely beneficial to the player, but left unknown created a situation where
the player did not know the ill effects of menace gain on the island until after they had invested a substantial amount of turns. The bug that the menace kick did not activate when it should have had to do with the unique way linked storylets were set up on the island. Instead of the player learning their lesson right away after 2 to 3 actions, one could be several hundred actions into progressing F&M before it randomly kicked in and booted them. It’s a lot less of a wound to lose 7 or 10 progress learning how the place work than it is to lose 40 to 50.
But even still, there was a backup safety system that should have prevented players from investing too many actions without learning the dangers of menace:
The menace gaining F&M storylets lock at either nightmares 8 or wounds 8. Since there is no natural way to reduce either of these menaces while on the island, this in effect locks the player out of wasting actions in the event the menace kick fails to trigger. You can think of the nightmares and wounds locks as a sort of fail safe or last line of defense. If the player does get locked out of making actions, and the menace kick does not occur, they still are not trapped forever. Time the healer will eventually remove their menace and let them leave or keep playing. But since time the healer only comes once a week, it’s not a major break in the ‘rapidly learn the dangers of menace’ mechanic.
Haha, now here is the part where some of the blame for how this thing exploded comes back to me and alexander and other players, completely independent of the content design:
while on the island, Alexander actively encouraged players to send him christmas cards. Christmas cards are a temporary, seasonal item that reduce menace drastically, and raise stats a lot too. It’s an exploit that they work even on winking island. An exploit that disabled the menace/wounds lockout fail safe mentioned above. For Alexander, this was a great boon, for he never did accidentally trigger the nightmares kick. He never had need to learn of the dangers of menace. I don’t know if he used other menace reduction methods such as social actions, but I suspect so.
When I went to winking island, I did a similar thing. Not with christmas cards, I wasn’t there long enough for that, but with social actions. I used stored wounds heals and nightmares confessions to lower my menaces while on the island, when I shouldn’t have been able to reduce menace at all. In both my case and alexander’s this was a serious break in the mechanics. It meant we could go longer without ever learning the most basic lesson that menace is really bad. At most, it just seemed to be a minor nuisance/time delayer.
To compound the issue further nex was used. Not the smartest idea when it comes to eaten content. This is the part everyone here already knows. Actions were refreshed. There was a sense of desperate urgency. Rumors of time limits. Literal angry mobs frothing at the mouth every second that someone held the card just a little longer than needed, and the overall impression from alexander’s roaring success that the whole thing was fairly painless and easy. I can say with confidence now that all of those rumors, impressions, and perceived advantages were false. If anything christmas cards and extra actions were a grave danger. The danger being they prolonged a bad situation, a situation of ignorance of very real dangers. There was no time limit. No one should have been angry over people taking their time. Wasted, foolish energy and panic is all that was. Haha, I have to say I was under tremendous stress because of all of these things (especially the deadline rumor) and that, along with the high action limit, drove me to foolhardy nex expenditures and gifting. A pity, but totally understandable. I wasn’t the only person there to do this either. Probably 3 out of five people who went spent fate while there. More on the number of visitors will be discussed below.
I think, if the rumor of a time limit had been dispelled a little earlier, and if winking island mechanics had discouraged nex abuse (such as working of short timer living stories like in rat sending simulator 2k13) the volatile emotions that made this thing explode so grandly could have been greatly diffused. I think that’s the situation we are in now. Everything exploded, people are taking a step back now and heads are cooling now that we know better. There are good reasons, I am sure that this didn’t happen sooner. Perhaps to maintain an air of mystery. Perhaps to drive hype to a fever pitch. We’ll never know, but the lesson here is mania is a fire, and if it’s not controlled completely it’s only a matter of time until someone gets burned.
Compounding the issue further
when the menace kick finally did trigger, well into my journey on winking island, it looped on itself. This was a bug, perhaps even, the same bug with linked storylets that prevented it from triggering earlier. This looping made it feel wrong. Like it shouldn’t have happened. Since the text is similar to that of getting sent to the royal beth, I had assumed I accidentally triggered getting sent there and broke a thing. It’s terrible to lose progress. Its worse to lose progress to something that feels and looks wrong. That looks like a bug. It’s even worse when that happens long, long after it should have.
So I was blindsided. What should have been a light slap on the wrist became a death blow to the heart. And I went into meltdown. I couldn’t think straight, I couldn’t anything. Utter panic and chaos set in as my friends had to calm me down enough to remember that you can use a goldfish to lower nightmares. That was good enough to get me off the island. But it was too late for my materials. I had given up my profession as a midnighter to become a poet, for fear of needing to rapidly restats
no stats were lost on accepting the card
Because I had gotten to high levels of fasting and meditating with no problems, I expended my veils-velvet. An act I would not have done until after learning the dangers of menace if everything had worked as intended (and I hadn’t exploited social actions). I lost all the fate I spent attempting to rush because of the rumor mill and general hysteria of the masses about time limits. I had nothing and it left me reeling. So that’s why I posted such crazed and distressed messages to the boards. Friends and colleges who hold me in respect and high regard swooped in to console and defend me, but that just made things explode further.
And that’s the honest truth of what happened on winking island. You would think I would be mad about bugs and errors in gameplay, but honestly I am laughing now. I was as much the engineer of my own demise as the bug was haha.
It’s like having a gas stove with a broken auto-igniter. Gas slowly fills the room and it keeps trying to strike. Eventually it works and causes a large fireball. That’s what the
menace kick linked storylet failuire bug
Did. It took little fires and made them big.
The christmas cards and social action exploits were akin to turning up the gas flow the stove isn’t lighting. Using nex was like ripping the pipes out of the walls haha. Of course that was a bad idea. I didn’t know at the time, but stepping back it’s comically foolhardy.
Oh man, “stove won’t light, better rip the pipes out of the walls :v” –NiteBrite quote of the year. You can’t say I am not foolish. In fact, I was selected for receiving the card because I am extremely foolish. The most foolhardy fool of all the seekers. And that’s why I can say, yes, I was satisfied with the winking island content. Folks wanted a show, and I think I gave them their monies worth (not literal money, its a figure speech) by exploding into a fantastic firework. I can only imagine the look on Alexis’s face as the tiger see this massive gas cloud billowing out of NiteBrite’s house right before the big boom 
My apologies, Alexis, and the rest of my fellow seekers. I blew up the SMEN-ence lab by being too reckless. It’s a shame whoever saw this mess tried to swoop in and prey on it with unfounded legal threats. That was just the icing on the cake. While everything is exploded, director of the SMEN-ences, Alexis has wisely closed the lab for rebuilding. It makes sense. Everything is on fire still, give it a little time to heal. It can be rebuilt and safeties can be implemented to prevent this from happening again (I particularly like the short living story timer suggestion). I hope all shall be well again in my aftermath, and that SMEN opens once again. I may have blown up, but I still love it so <3
Oh, and I would be remiss to forget the others. I may have been the epicenter, of this explosion, but others were caught in my wake due to
the card duplication bug. When Alexander was giving up his card, he came up with a mad plan. He would send the card and have me accept after he landed on the island. He wanted to see what would happen.
Alexis had anticipated such a mad strategy. Being on the island without the card should have triggered an auto-kick story. But that didn’t happen to alexander. He landed safely, unawares that he now had two cards after sending it to me, rather than one. I in turn, returned home after exploding, to lick my wounds and heal. I was in a right state, and unfit to return to the island so I passed the card along to my chosen next in line, Dolan.
Dolan, was a controversial choice. Folks from the pact don’t like him much, but I know him well enough from K&C and chat that I knew I could trust him to stick to a plan. He was prepared, in a similar manner as me, and he had three of the high value items to cash in. The desire for rare text and the knowledge he could be trusted and that he was prepared to a similar level as I was were deciding factors in this choice. He legitimately received the card from me then went on to the island.
It was at this time I noticed I not only still had the card, but that I had two. I passed it on again, to see what would happen. It duplicated the card, confirming my suspicions. So I asked the person I sent the card to to wait. The card could have been a bug but with SMEN content, its hard to tell. Arguably, it could have been intended to duplicate all along, making the infighting and rage and popularity contests all comically unnecessary all along. Haha, that would have been great. A total troll on the part of Alexis. I sent a duplicated card to spacemarine (who was asleep) as a teasing joke since I knew he couldn’t accept for a week due to candle curious. Unfortunately, it turns out it was a bug. Words were misunderstood on forums posts between me and Alexis. This lead to people on the island, including dolan, who should have legitimately had the original card, getting booted, as what should have happened to alexander when he first attempted his silly card passing plan. I can understand dolan feeling cheated and asking for a refund. For all he knew, he had a legitimate card and was kicked for no reason. This was my fault! I am sorry to have caused this incident by not recognizing the duplication as a bug proper and not an intended act sooner. You were caught in my error, and that wasn’t right. Alexis, probably, at that point had no idea where the card legitimately belonged. This is my speculation as to why I kept the cards and no one else did. And that’s why others suffered in the aftermath of my explosion.
And so, that’s the entire story of everything, at least, from my perspective. I am really sorry to have caused so much trouble and chaos. I like to think of this as a hard earned lesson in being reckless with SMEN and content boundaries. I share my story, in hopes that others will learn from me not to be so foolhardy. Apologies to everyone again. [/spoiler]
edited by NiteBrite on 12/11/2013
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I AM currently accepting calling cards.
Stats loss counter: reset, irrigo equivalent: none
[00:34] <@ortab> NiteBrite's laugh is that of a condemned soul gazing into the abyss.
Merciless Modiste avatar by Paul Arendt (based on an original image by Joe England)
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/TheBriteModiste
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reedybeanz
Posts: 10
12/11/2013
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thank you NiteBrite for the explanation at least. i've been over here mildly ticked off for two days because posts had been deleted so i had no idea what had happened and why things that *other people did* should take away the only thing besides Ambition that keeps me playing.
i am of the opinion that making SMEN more and more heavily dependent on social interactions and heretofore entirely optional game mechanics has been it's biggest flaw. starveling cat exchanges were mostly innocuous; forcing players to play K&C or raise Notability or virally expand the Search to obtain enough items to progress the narrative is, imho, a marked disadvantage and disservice to less social players who just want to play a game that has always prided itself on its "civilized social media policy." remember when Unaccountably Peckish could only be gained by stealing the Handsome Lad with a Healthy Appetite? it's the same bottleneck, only now with 4+ years worth of time and money behind it. the natural progression of increasing social interactions and passing off unique items established a pecking order with far more at stake and far lower ignition points. with our opportunistic and PARTICULARLY delicious "friend" waving the Loaded Gun of Legal Action around, i can understand Alexis's actions. but I am still miserable about it.
i see no reason why the content couldn't be reworked eventually to most peoples' more-or-less satisfaction (such as it is for Seeking), but i'm sure it will take lots of time, if Alexis is doing this in his off-hours (which i did not know until this thread, which makes me even more grateful for the content we've seen so far). i would be willing to wait even quite a lot of time for Alexis to be able to make a continuation and mechanics that make him happy, as long as i know that the storyline i have been dedicated to following for so long *is* going to continue at some point. to me, the words "indefinite hiatus" are ALWAYS code for "cancelled," and faced with the possibility of losing SMEN for good, i think a lot of us could deal with it being on the back burner for a time so it can be done right.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/reedybeanz
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/grab_bag
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Blackleaf
Posts: 552
12/11/2013
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Well. So much for jumping down wells. Can we please leave the search or something if its going to be paused?
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No cats or investigations of photographers please.
Same goes for Sparring,Loitering,Suppers and Games of chess! Sure I'll accept them occasionaly but I wont help you grind them most of the time.
But calling cards are highly welcome! (Got too much influence for cards at the moment. Sorry!)
Character profile can be found here: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Blackleaf
Ware serpents and know spires.
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neongrey
Posts: 29
12/11/2013
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Just wait a week, then we'll know where everything's at.
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My Profile
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Urthdigger
Posts: 939
12/11/2013
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Now that I've seen NiteBrite's explanation, I really wish nothing had changed. That this whole drama hadn't unfolded, that I could be able to experience the island in its natural state. Oh well.
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Looking for second chances to maximize your loot output from those troublesome storylets? Check out our handy gang of volunteers in this thread, or even volunteer yourself!
@Urthdigger on twitter
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Alexander Feld
Posts: 348
12/11/2013
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Urthdigger wrote:
Now that I've seen NiteBrite's explanation, I really wish nothing had changed. That this whole drama hadn't unfolded, that I could be able to experience the island in its natural state. Oh well.
It often comes back to me that I could have changed the course of history. None of this would have happened if I'd just kept silent about the card. Was there anything I could have done differently? The right word here or there, perhaps? I suppose we will never know. The world turns, time goes on.
As things seem to be cooling down, I think I can now post the full story of my time on the island without inciting a riot, hm?
http://nightmarethrenody.tumblr.com/post/69675861656/when-mr-eaten-comes-a-calling
And an epilogue which most people here will find unnecessary, but does have a lament I sang in honor of these events.
http://nightmarethrenody.tumblr.com/post/69675864926/when-mr-eaten-goes-away-an-epilogue-of-deeper
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I am a star-gazer, story-eater, and a smelter of words.
I filch hidden things from hidden places, to hide once more in my dark cabinet of curiosities
Alexander Feld, the mad, damned, lord of seekers.
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scuffles
Posts: 12
12/11/2013
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I imagine Alexis now has a splendid understanding of how Lady Gaga feels about her Little Monsters.
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Blackleaf
Posts: 552
12/11/2013
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Is it just me or is Nitebrite's post sorta... half not there? theres giant spaces of various size in it that seem like they should have text.
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No cats or investigations of photographers please.
Same goes for Sparring,Loitering,Suppers and Games of chess! Sure I'll accept them occasionaly but I wont help you grind them most of the time.
But calling cards are highly welcome! (Got too much influence for cards at the moment. Sorry!)
Character profile can be found here: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Blackleaf
Ware serpents and know spires.
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
12/11/2013
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Highlight it.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro
Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.
Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
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KatarinaNavane
Posts: 462
12/11/2013
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Karaeir wrote:
an_ocelot wrote:
I love the new thread title.
...but where are all the drinks?
You can't have drinks at a SMEN party, we'll all try to drown ourselves with them.
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Storynexus sn Katarina Navane.
My art page (much of which is dark, Victorian, and/or full of tentacles): http://www.facebook.com/demonkittydesigns
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David Lombard
Posts: 79
12/11/2013
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Ain't no party like an S MEN party cuz, um, everyone is wretched and despondent.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/David~Lombard
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Aspeon
Posts: 311
12/11/2013
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The text on the Saint Forthigan's acquisition mirrors the mouseover for the Violet Amber. (http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/Violet_Amber) Interesting.
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A raccooning will not be postponed indefinitely.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Aspeon
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Playersideblog
Posts: 397
12/11/2013
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Blackleaf wrote:
Is it just me or is Nitebrite's post sorta... half not there? theres giant spaces of various size in it that seem like they should have text.
Although you could highlight it, I prefer to think that it has been...devoured.
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My profile
I am now a Correspondent, and no longer able to accept invitations as an Author. (Or so I believe.)
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Sackville
Posts: 295
12/11/2013
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Aspeon wrote:
The text on the Saint Forthigan's acquisition mirrors the mouseover for the Violet Amber. (http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/Violet_Amber) Interesting.
Also, the text read by the Special Constable when he visited at Hallowmass.
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Spacemarine9
Posts: 2234
12/11/2013
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Also one of the Marsh Mired betrayals. And the Bazaar tweeted most of it once. One of the Lorn Fluke destinies quotes it as well.
edited by Spacemarine9 on 12/11/2013
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my rats will blot out the sun
Ratgames
FL lore/mechanics questions and answers
#FallenLondon IRC (irc.synirc.net) Channel! Click to join via Mibbit.
#SunlessSea IRC channel! Like the above, but zee-ier.
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