jcarbon06
Posts: 4
10/28/2013
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I'm kind of new to the forums, so I have no idea if this is the right place for this, but I think it would be good if there was a place for people to post the bits of story you get from receiving Hallowmass visitors, and also the "glimpses of a possible future" when they come out.
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Laluzi
Posts: 456
10/30/2013
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I find the constraint on the wiki sad. It was browsing the wiki and saying 'Wow, this stuff is pretty amazing' that convinced me to join. I mean, some online friends had told me about the site, but your friends tell you about all sorts of things they play. I personally gauge interest by browsing whatever online information I can find about the game, and then deciding whether or not I'm intrigued. Without storylets to follow... well, there's no comprehensive wiki about the site, about the factions and races and such. There's nothing else to find but the storylets. Remove that, and where's the interest hook?
I mean, not everyone works like me, but if I hadn't found the wiki, I probably would have just gone about my way.
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Feel free to ask if you need something! Uninterested in Trailing the Affluent Photographer.
Mercer - an enigmatic and brutal individual. Frightfully strong. Has even more frightful manners.
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Saharan
Posts: 247
10/30/2013
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Yeah, it's a crying shame. The whole of Fallen London is about solving mysteries, and if you can't go look back at things you've already done, that's working against the very essence of the game. If the Journals actually worked in a decent manner, gutting the wiki wouldn't be so terrible, but as it is, it's a horrible move.
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My Saint - My Twitter - My Seeker
"To light one candle to God and another to the Devils is the principle of wisdom."
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
10/30/2013
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It's a shame, but I am sympathetic about the pressures a small studio faces in protecting its legal rights to its content. Upgrading the journal system would be the logical step to take alongside restricting the wiki - but it's also one of those changes that's going to take a lot of work and will only be noticed and appreciated by a limited percentage of players. Plus, I expect they're flat out with Sunless Sea plus regular Fallen London content, which is going to be their bread and butter. So, we must compromise and try to make the best of it. And now I want some bread and butter.
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Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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Flyte
Administrator
Posts: 671
10/30/2013
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While I understand why this has happened, I expect it to seriously diminish my enjoyment of the game. People play Fallen London for different reasons. Like some others, I'm mostly in this for the mysteries. For those who mostly use the wiki for advice on gameplay or grinding, the quotations don't much matter. But for the sort of speculation which has kept me engaged, they're basically indispensable.
As Saharan said, this wouldn't be an issue if our journals were a viable way of organising information. Unfortunately they aren't, and it doesn't look like that will change any time soon.
I don't really have any suggestions, but wanted to express my sincere regret.
edited by Flyte on 10/30/2013
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Master Polarimini
Posts: 310
11/2/2013
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In the wake of the discussion on the Wiki constraints, I was wondering, why don't we (or at least people versed in FL mysteries) use the Wiki not just to put the outcomes of the storylets but to create real entries Wikipedia-style (description, facts -with references-, eventually conjectures...) on the various topics (places, characters, concepts, etc.) reuniting the knowledge of the many Neath experts here?
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Devices workshop opening soon...
Follow my story at http://www.fallenlondon.com/Profile/Master~Polarimini
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Laluzi
Posts: 456
10/30/2013
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babelfishwars wrote:
Flyte wrote:
While I understand why this has happened ...
Given people jiggled free fate to back Sunless Sea, and most of us were surprised someone would do that, I think we can assume we'd be being naive to think people wouldn't just read the wiki, were it to fully replicate the game content.
I'm surprised there's any wiki at all, but I guess they're doing the best they can to balance allowing it vs going out of business.
Reading something on the wiki and actually doing it with your character isn't the same thing, though. If anything, it gives me experiences and things to look forward to - or it lets me see stories that my choices have eclipsed and made impossible to obtain.
But what's done is done, I guess. This was hardly a snap decision - they've thought about all of the angles, I'd imagine.
One thing I would love to see is a separate wiki - one that didn't have storylets and in-game text, but just compiled basic information about Fallen London. The races, the factions, the areas. Common knowledge only - I imagine they wouldn't want more spoilered things up, if at all. Just something you could go and look at - like 'hey, what's the deal with spirifers', and find a page on them. Or something. I'd happily write for such a thing if it existed, especially when I'm on a break from college. But at this rate, I'm honestly not sure how much information Failbetter wants out there, at all.
edited by Laluzi on 10/30/2013
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Feel free to ask if you need something! Uninterested in Trailing the Affluent Photographer.
Mercer - an enigmatic and brutal individual. Frightfully strong. Has even more frightful manners.
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babelfishwars
Administrator
Posts: 1152
10/30/2013
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Flyte wrote:
While I understand why this has happened ...
Given people jiggled free fate to back Sunless Sea, and most of us were surprised someone would do that, I think we can assume we'd be being naive to think people wouldn't just read the wiki, were it to fully replicate the game content.
I'm surprised there's any wiki at all, but I guess they're doing the best they can to balance allowing it vs going out of business.
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Mars, God of Fish; Leaning Tower of Fish
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Flyte
Administrator
Posts: 671
10/30/2013
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Given people jiggled free fate to back Sunless Sea, and most of us were surprised someone would do that, I think we can assume we'd be being naive to think people wouldn't just read the wiki, were it to fully replicate the game content. If that were the reason for the change we could solicit analytics from the wiki admins and debate the relevance of Fate farming and argue about whether Fallen London's art and interface and gameplay are really so uncompelling that people would rather read a wiki -- but it isn't, so that probably wouldn't be a good use of time.
As I said, I understand. I don't know what else Failbetter could or should have done; if I did, I'd have said so. But for me, the best part of Fallen London is taking time now and then to think about its mysteries, test my ideas against the text, and then discuss them with others. This game grows slowly, like coral; I forget things. The wiki helped with that. Without it I couldn't have written some of my posts on this forum, some of which some others seem to have enjoyed. This seemed to me worth saying, even if, as it appears, there's nothing to be done.
I can imagine a journal system which supported and encouraged my style of play. But right now, Failbetter has other commitments, and when those are met I suspect that, reasonably enough, they'll spend their time on something with surer prospects of increased revenue.
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