NiteBrite
Posts: 1019
10/5/2013
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I'd say getting into nadir as soon as possible is definitely worth it. At about watchful 60 you can gear up and make the slowest option on expedition progression straightforward. Its not great ppa, in fact you probably lose a couple hundred echos in effort going slowly like that. But even if you lost 1000 echos, you can make it back so quickly in the nadir its not even funny. I've made over 1000 echos in a single expedition there once or twice. Although you really need to know what you are doing and to be a little lucky on the card draw to make that kind of profit. But its not -that- hard or rare to make good cash in nadir. Also once inside stats are irrelevant. There are barely any stat based challenges in there. Shoot, its actually good to have low stats because then you can put on a TRF, drop your stats below 50 and take no stat damage when you leave. I.E. you make mad profit for no menace. In fact, you can perhaps not on the leaving option to repeat it over and over again, and, assuming you aren't losing stats because you have a TRF pet on, its a free and good way to be rid of all your levels of night mare menace.
The only difficult thing might be getting skulls for the expedition. But there are a few different ways to get skulls that aren't crazy expensive and are open to low stats players. Shoot, I have even have a few skulls available if you want them (send me a PM to discuss if interested). tl;dr: I highly recommend getting to nadir as soon as possible. Its a good steady, weekly income that is better for low level players than it is for people who take a stat hit every time they venture inside.
--
I AM currently accepting calling cards.
Stats loss counter: reset, irrigo equivalent: none
[00:34] <@ortab> NiteBrite's laugh is that of a condemned soul gazing into the abyss.
Merciless Modiste avatar by Paul Arendt (based on an original image by Joe England)
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/TheBriteModiste
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Riley37
Posts: 125
10/7/2013
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I started expeditions around Watchful 60-70, and it's viable. There are a few actions around that level which pay off directly in Whispered Secrets, and which build various stats. It can be rather grindy, but then you get some decent story out of the expedition itself. However - keeping a skull in inventory can be a pain, so if you are looking for a skull, I recommend FIRST stocking up 90+ Supplies, so that you're supplied for a Nadir expedition. (You may also need to build up Archeology skill before you can do the actual Nadir expedition, but in either case, being stocked is gonna be necessary sooner or later.) If you stumble across a Skull early, then you can use up that Skull in other ways, and hope that it won't be too hard (or tedious) to get another one later.
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Gillsing
Posts: 1203
10/7/2013
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So, we get to keep expedition supplies that aren't used in a given expedition? After three weeks as an Enquirer my Watchful has entered that 60-70 range, but I don't have a lot of gear to boost it above 70, so I doubt that I'd be able to handle an expedition right now. Perhaps I should get gear first, and then go for expedition supplies? I haven't found any skulls yet, but with higher Watchful I ought to be able to last longer among the ruins before I have to flee in terror.
I'm a bit wary of throwing huge amounts of resources on something I know nothing of. I remember first time I did the Pickpocket's Promenade with Shadowy 20 or so, and it was just a huge waste of time that resulted in no trophies. Wouldn't want that to happen with an expedition that I spent 100+ Echos on. Perhaps this is a much better option for someone who's replaying with a new character, and who already knows how that part of the game works?
EDIT: I just found an eyeless skull while 'seeing the sights'. I guess that puts me one step closer to an expedition? I then wandered the quarter some more before going to the Parlour to celebrate. (Which was the plan before I even set out. Well, the plan was to recover at the Parlour, since I didn't know I'd have something to celebrate.)
edited by Gillsing on 10/7/2013
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OPG
Posts: 387
10/8/2013
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You'll want to get rid of that Skull soon, otherwise it will mess you up, trust me.
--
overpoweredginger, an irresistible, magnificent, midnight and sagacious gentleman.
A Fallen London Roleplay Community exists. Contrary to popular belief, Richard Nixon is not involved.
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lady ciel
Posts: 2548
10/8/2013
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No you don't need to get rid of it, They are very hard to find and you will need at least 1 plus an item that costs 5 of the things (or lot of echoes or revolutionary connections or Fate) to get access to the Cave of the Nadir.
Just go to an area that removes opportunity cards anytime you get a handful of the skull related opportunity cards.
--
ciel
Sorry RL means I am not a very active player at the moment. No social actions unless you are prepared to wait and definitely no sparring or other mult-action things.
No Calling Cards or boxed cats please. Will take dupes on the affluent photographers. Other social invitations welcome. Parabolan Kittens usually available, send me an in-game social action saying you want one and I will get one to you as soon as possible.
storynexus name - reveurciel
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Riley37
Posts: 125
10/8/2013
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Perhaps whether eyeless skull is a keeper or not, when one is far from being able to use them for Nadir, is one of those questions of personal style and preference. Some people love the hand-maintenance side of the game, others find it an impediment to other parts which they enjoy more.
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Gillsing
Posts: 1203
10/8/2013
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Riley37 wrote:
However - keeping a skull in inventory can be a pain ...
Heh, I did notice that thing about it being "a pain" to keep a skull around, so I consulted the wiki. And after a while I did get two skull cards in a row. I figured I'd wait for a third before walking the Pickpocket's Promenade, but then one of the skull cards just disappeared. While maximising Persuasive, my Dangerous had slipped beneath 50, and the corresponding skull card wasn't there any more. So I brought up my Talkative Rattus Faber to make the Watchful card go away as well. Then both cards mysteriously reappeared when I entered the Forgotten Quarter, so I had to bring in the rat again to make them disappear. Just as mysteriously, but to my benefit! 
And given how rarely I seem to get skull cards, it seems like a good idea to keep the skull around. Looks like I'll have to rob a lot of drunks to get money to buy enough gear to push Watchful up to expedition standard, while at the same time keep it low enough that it can be brought down below 50. So that's what I'm doing while recovering from the nightmares I get from the Forgotten Quarter. Back and forth, while also jumping on opportunities that come up.
And just to make sure, do we get to keep expedition supplies that go unused in a given expedition? Or are supplies reduced to zero after an expedition either succeeds or fails?
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Spacemarine9
Posts: 2234
10/8/2013
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Supplies carry over between expeditions! Stock up as much as you like.
--
my rats will blot out the sun
Ratgames
FL lore/mechanics questions and answers
#FallenLondon IRC (irc.synirc.net) Channel! Click to join via Mibbit.
#SunlessSea IRC channel! Like the above, but zee-ier.
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Aximillio
Posts: 1251
10/8/2013
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Not quite - there's a hard cap at 100 you can't get beyond.
--
Possibly returned after a long hiatus. Please do not send live rats or tournament requests.
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OPG
Posts: 387
10/8/2013
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Aximillio wrote:
Not quite - there's a hard cap at 100 you can't get beyond.
Still, if you're decently Watchful (for a PoSI), then you shouldn't have a problem.
--
overpoweredginger, an irresistible, magnificent, midnight and sagacious gentleman.
A Fallen London Roleplay Community exists. Contrary to popular belief, Richard Nixon is not involved.
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Gillsing
Posts: 1203
10/8/2013
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OPG wrote:
Still, if you're decently Watchful (for a PoSI), then you shouldn't have a problem. Since I was the one who asked, and I'm far from being of any significance, that 100 limit might actually matter, at least if going for the Cave of Nadir. According to the plan I'm supposed to go take "a cautious approach", since that's the only difficulty I could hope to succeed with when my Watchful is in the 60-70 range before being boosted by gear.
That seems to pose a problem though, at least as far as I can tell from studying the wiki: If it takes at least 60 supplies to reach the cave, that indicates to me that it would take 60 actions while going slowly. And every action would increase the rival's progress, and whenever that hits 10, I'd need to spend 10 supplies to confront that rival. 100 - 60 = 40 supplies left to confront rivals who get 60 points of progress during my cautious approach? That does not add up in my favour, so I guess that things might not work that way.
On the wiki it does say that a rival might not get any progress, or only get progress if it's already 1 or more. So maybe that's what I would have to rely upon. I will no doubt find out when I go on an actual expedition to learn some Archaeology 101. Looks like I might be able to get my Watchful to 82 with some affordable items, and I'm bound to raise Watchful before I've gathered enough supplies. Will probably raise it a lot while doing expeditions to get Archaeology 5, which will take enough time that my profession reward will kick in at least once.
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OPG
Posts: 387
10/8/2013
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My advice: Don't go after the Nadir until you can at least get 100% reliable successes on the 1 supply/action option. Also, always play it safe on the Nadir, as it's too long an expedition to risk anything.
--
overpoweredginger, an irresistible, magnificent, midnight and sagacious gentleman.
A Fallen London Roleplay Community exists. Contrary to popular belief, Richard Nixon is not involved.
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Lady Red
Posts: 517
10/8/2013
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As far as I can tell, your rivals progress only increases when you fail an action. I spent 60 or so supplies to get the cave, at any rate, and didn't have to spend any on confronting a rival.
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Lady~Red
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OPG
Posts: 387
10/8/2013
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Lady Red wrote:
As far as I can tell, your rivals progress only increases when you fail an action. I spent 60 or so supplies to get the cave, at any rate, and didn't have to spend any on confronting a rival. No, I never failed an action and got my Rival's Progress about halfway by the end. There is an option to use some supplies to screw with their progress that's dependent on Airs, but there is a slight chance for Rival's Progress to increase on a success.
--
overpoweredginger, an irresistible, magnificent, midnight and sagacious gentleman.
A Fallen London Roleplay Community exists. Contrary to popular belief, Richard Nixon is not involved.
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xKiv
Posts: 846
10/8/2013
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FWIW, I seem to get roughly 50% chance of rival progress on successful buccaneering, so 10 rival progress would be expected around 60 my progress at that rate.
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https://www.fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xKiv - a witchful, percussive, dangermous and shadowry scholar of coexplodence, hopsidirean, and walker of fallen kitties.
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Aximillio
Posts: 1251
10/9/2013
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Yep, I also expect around 50% chance of it increasing. Due to the sign you can expect getting some free progress, so it's definitely doable with the first option.
--
Possibly returned after a long hiatus. Please do not send live rats or tournament requests.
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Elnara
Posts: 137
10/9/2013
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The Rival's Progress reaching 10 is actually not a huge problem, as the rival can be confronted fairly easily.
You might want to think about stocking up on second chances, then trying the 2 or 3 supply options and backing out of the challenge if you fail on the first try. It uses up a fair amount of second chances, but it will get you the progress at probably about the same rate as doing the 1 supply challenge, and it will lessen the Rival's Progress.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Elnara
No photographer invitations please!
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Lady Red
Posts: 517
10/9/2013
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I stand corrected then Maybe the odds are less for the 3-supply option, which is what I use? I just know that in the expeditions I've been on I've never been bothered by the rivals. Maybe I've just been lucky!
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Lady~Red
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Gillsing
Posts: 1203
10/11/2013
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Curses! I thought I'd be able to exchange Appalling Secrets for expedition supplies, but somehow I'M the one getting nightmares from sharing those secrets. That won't work. Nightmares is the one menace I'm waiting to get rid of after all the time spent in the Forgotten Quarter. Seems like Whispered Secrets is the way to go then. My Watchful will probably be well over 100 when I have enough for the first expedition.
But hey, I found a second eyeless skull without too much looking.
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Catherine Raymond
Posts: 2518
10/12/2013
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Gillsing wrote:
So, we get to keep expedition supplies that aren't used in a given expedition?
edited by Gillsing on 10/7/2013
Yes, that's right. You keep Expedition Supplies you don't use in a given expedition, but I think you can't have more than 100 Expedition Supplies at any one time.
--
Cathy Raymond
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355
Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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