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Nemesis Conclusion part 1 Messages in this topic - RSS

Azothi
Azothi
Posts: 561

1/16/2020
Skinnyman wrote:
You're comparing something that requires, on average, 40 cards with something that requires 800+ or 128 Flit cards favouring the Urchins.

Extreme card flipping (very exhausting) can yield a bat in 4-5 days, but we all know how cruel can RNG be sometimes! upset
I am. I'm more interested in the mechanism for obtaining the item than the scope of it. I presented two previous cases: the Location in Heart's Desire and the Ray-Drenched Cinder for the Cave of the Nadir. The mechanism for both is luck-based, and the former, like the Bat with Attitude, is based entirely on opportunity cards. Is this on the same scope as a Location? Of course not. But it's obtained through the same gameplay mechanic: opportunity cards.

I'm fine with Flash resets. It's my typical gameplay loop anyway, so this is a fun variation on that. I'm reasonably confident I can catch up by next Tuesday, and I'm reasonably certain of it within two or three weeks. It's also let me raise a particular dream quality to 15, which will come in handy in the near future (and which is handled nicely by being strictly optional).

Skinnyman wrote:
Only because it has been done and we know how to do it. Any new player pursuing this ambition can plan and start drawing the card for this Bat since day 1 or 2.
That's the issue, though. Are we to tell future Nemesis players, "You're going to want to buy a Sulky Bat; you'll need it later" straight out of New Newgate? That strikes me as needlessly artificial.


Skinnyman wrote:
And besides, I'm guessing that it will take few more months before the 3rd part of the conclusion. During this time, I bet one third of London will be scandalous! smile For Flash Lays, of course.
The next update of Nemesis has been teased as "Very soon" in-game. One may observe on the announcement that the Ambition updates that there is a very reasonable potential timetable potentially hidden under the redactions: 3 weeks of Nemesis, 1 week break, 3 weeks of Feast of the Rose, 3 weeks of Bag a Legend, 1 week break, 3 weeks of Light Fingers, and 3 weeks of Heart's Desire.

Furthermore, Ambitions have been treated as "written": from the AMA, "I've written the Nemesis conclusion and I imagine we'll be announcing who wrote the other 3 soon enough." There's a case to be made for Nemesis finishing on a timescale of weeks rather than months.

And I hesitate to treat Flash resets as the standard for judging how easily an item can be obtained. It's a niche strategy, and one I suspect is not widely disseminated outside of the community. Even on Reddit, it still has to be periodically advertised to newcomers. It's become the norm for us, but the need to reinvent the wheel decreases the likelihood of its use among all the players who aren't part of the community.

Skinnyman wrote:
Now to add that Portfolio of Souls (excluding the "manufacture" which cost 75 E) and Judgements' Egg were not that accessible and were seen as trophies. After some updates, they were reduced to Echo junk.

My Bats are more valuable than 12.5 E! Big Grin
I'm afraid I don't see the relevance of this idea. No one's suggesting that we have a permanent source for manufacturing Bats with Attitude. The suggestions I've seen largely follow the precedent of Heart's Desire and the Cave of the Nadir: a one-time manufacturing option at a steep cost to avoid luck-based or opportunity-card-based grinding. That would turn Bats with Attitude into "Echo junk" as much as the Nadir storyline converted Ray-Drenched Cinders into Echo junk.

(But yeah, these bats are valuable. They've already cost me somewhere in the range of 600 Echoes in opportunity cost, and that's only going to grow. smile )

Skinnyman wrote:
Kharsirr Lynx wrote:
Just adding my agreement for suggestion of additional, expensive? way-around to get a Bat of Attitude. I have 7, and was lucky to get the first literally in the days of that Hallowmas when it was needed, but... not all players dedicate themselves to choose the option on the card, and not all players are collectors.
I couldn't agree more!
Wouldn't the value/proportion/impact of the story be diminished if everything will be easily accessible?
edited by Skinnyman on 1/16/2020
Not sure if we interpreted the suggestion the same way, but I'd argue that the immediate impact (but not the long-term impact!) of the story is diminished by the need to wait on RNG's blessing. Hype decreases with time. The problem is visible progress. When you're grinding for a material, those values increase over time; you can set checkpoints and keep track of your progress to that point. When you're waiting for a rare success on a 50% luck check on an opportunity card, you're just waiting for it to fall into your lap.

I'm not particularly convinced by the argument that the story will be diminished if an alternative option is available, or that accessibility necessarily runs contrary to the value/impact of a story. You can go from breaking out of New Newgate to the Heart's Desire content barrier in around a month nowadays if you know what you're doing (and start at the right time). That doesn't devalue the story to that point, in my opinion.

I'll look back at this rather fondly when all's said and done. It'll be the story of the __ days/weeks and the thousands of cards drawn waiting for a Bat with Attitude. I've already memorialized it in the name of my Utterly Livid Bat! The way I see it, the grind is like Winking Isle. It's like a whole different game: Echoes, Making Waves, Favours, pets, scraps, social actions - they're all meaningless. There's only one thing to do, again and again, like the breaking of waves on the shore.

--
Azoth I, the Emissary of Cardinals - A Paramount Presence (not currently accepting new Proteges)
Away to where the Chain cannot bind us.
Hesperidean.
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Tom Davidson
Tom Davidson
Posts: 101

1/16/2020
To be fair, if forced to choose patience over the Courier's Footprint grind, I'll choose patience with the RNG every time.

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Jason5237
Jason5237
Posts: 291

1/16/2020
Kharsirr Lynx wrote:
It had been visited, yes.


Thank you for confirming!

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Catherine Raymond
Catherine Raymond
Posts: 2442

1/16/2020
Waterpls wrote:
How many bats do you need? If only one its seems okay. Standard freq card, rare success looks like 5%. 2 weeks of fishing for it, one month if RNG is cruel.


You need only one.

--
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silurica
silurica
Posts: 191

1/17/2020
Azothi wrote:
Skinnyman wrote:
And besides, I'm guessing that it will take few more months before the 3rd part of the conclusion. During this time, I bet one third of London will be scandalous! smile For Flash Lays, of course.
The next update of Nemesis has been teased as "Very soon" in-game. One may observe on the announcement that the Ambition updates that there is a very reasonable potential timetable potentially hidden under the redactions: 3 weeks of Nemesis, 1 week break, 3 weeks of Feast of the Rose, 3 weeks of Bag a Legend, 1 week break, 3 weeks of Light Fingers, and 3 weeks of Heart's Desire.

Furthermore, Ambitions have been treated as "written": from the AMA, "I've written the Nemesis conclusion and I imagine we'll be announcing who wrote the other 3 soon enough." There's a case to be made for Nemesis finishing on a timescale of weeks rather than months.


To add to Azothi's point, we actually have a tangible date for the next Nemesis update teased in the new content boundary:
[spoiler]January 21, exactly a week after the first update.[/spoiler]

--
Meika Osborne, the Reckless Researcher
Leonard West, the Scarlet Informant
Chizuru Nishiooji, the Rueful Ex-Diplomat
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The Curious Watcher
The Curious Watcher
Posts: 169

1/17/2020
My saltiness about being batless aside, one detail in the recap mentions that Mr Wines intervened to save the Purveyor of Names and the Mute from Mr Cups, but I looked through my echoes and see no instance of that happening. Is there anyone that can verify this detail, because it would mean that Wines is starting feuds with multiple Masters instead of the typical Spices.

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phryne
phryne
Posts: 1329

1/17/2020
The Curious Watcher wrote:
My saltiness about being batless aside, one detail in the recap mentions that Mr Wines intervened to save the Purveyor of Names and the Mute from Mr Cups, but I looked through my echoes and see no instance of that happening. Is there anyone that can verify this detail, because it would mean that Wines is starting feuds with multiple Masters instead of the typical Spices.
I just came here to post the exact same thing! From the moment I first read the recap on Tuesday, I thought, "Wines? In this Ambition?" I couldn't recall it either and, like you, can't find anything in my records. But I was too busy this week to bring it up earlier.

It's almost as if they've mixed it up with Bag a Legend or Heart's Desire.

Another thing about the recap: it says about Scathewick that "you claimed his blade" which isn't necessarily true: the PC had the choice to do so or not. I noticed that because my Nemesis char has no Blooded Knife (I checked, just to be sure) and still got the same text.

--
Ambition summaries project (work in progress)
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writerFavours & Renown GuideDestiny Guide
Go play StoryNexus games - while you still can!
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Kharsirr Lynx
Kharsirr Lynx
Posts: 317

1/17/2020
phryne wrote:
The Curious Watcher wrote:
My saltiness about being batless aside, one detail in the recap mentions that Mr Wines intervened to save the Purveyor of Names and the Mute from Mr Cups, but I looked through my echoes and see no instance of that happening. Is there anyone that can verify this detail, because it would mean that Wines is starting feuds with multiple Masters instead of the typical Spices.
I just came here to post the exact same thing! From the moment I first read the recap on Tuesday, I thought, "Wines? In this Ambition?" I couldn't recall it either and, like you, can't find anything in my records. But I was too busy this week to bring it up earlier.

It's almost as if they've mixed it up with Bag a Legend or Heart's Desire.

Another thing about the recap: it says about Scathewick that "you claimed his blade" which isn't necessarily true: the PC had the choice to do so or not. I noticed that because my Nemesis char has no Blooded Knife (I checked, just to be sure) and still got the same text.


Could you bring it up to Failbetter folks' attention? I am interested in their answer.

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Shadowcthuhlu
Shadowcthuhlu
Posts: 1536

1/17/2020
Also, well Mind of a Thunder god is the hardest of the tree areas to get there, the flavor text and additional reward is worth it

--
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Dirae%20Erinyes. Closed to calling cards, but open for all other social action. I also love to roleplay.
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silurica
silurica
Posts: 191

1/18/2020
phryne wrote:
Another thing about the recap: it says about Scathewick that "you claimed his blade" which isn't necessarily true: the PC had the choice to do so or not. I noticed that because my Nemesis char has no Blooded Knife (I checked, just to be sure) and still got the same text.


Interesting! I've been wondering about this since I first read that paragraph, but I picked the knife myself. If you ever crosscheck this with FBG via outside of forums method, could you share the result with us? I'm interested in recording all changes or variations of the text.

Also on the topic of Wines, the whole paragraph struck me as odd. Calling the Mute/Cumberbold and the Purveyor of Names "servants of Mr Mirrors and Mr Cups respectively" speaks of a specificity that I can't find in my records (they were only in contact with Scathewick, and even Scathewick claimed he didn't know who he worked for beside the sigil on the payment). And the latter half of the paragraph... just didn't exist in my records.

It's plenty odd. I've sent them feedback e-mail just yesterday to ask about/bring attention to this.
edited by silurica on 1/18/2020

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Meika Osborne, the Reckless Researcher
Leonard West, the Scarlet Informant
Chizuru Nishiooji, the Rueful Ex-Diplomat
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Deathjack999
Deathjack999
Posts: 91

1/18/2020
Hopefully we'll get similar for the others, like for example:

Previously on Light Fingers
Ambitoneer: "THIS WAS THE WORST IDEA I'VE EVER FUCKING HAD!"
And it still is.
edited by Deathjack999 on 1/18/2020

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phryne
phryne
Posts: 1329

1/18/2020
silurica wrote:
Also on the topic of Wines, the whole paragraph struck me as odd. Calling the Mute/Cumberbold and the Purveyor of Names "servants of Mr Mirrors and Mr Cups respectively" speaks of a specificity that I can't find in my records (they were only in contact with Scathewick, and even Scathewick claimed he didn't know who he worked for beside the sigil on the payment). And the latter half of the paragraph... just didn't exist in my records.
I agree about the whole paragraph seeming a bit odd. But reading it after I had just written down my own synopsis of this Ambition a day previously, I was bound to notice things. I guess they wanted to go for extreme brevity. And I guess from a certain point of view lots of Londoners are "servants of the Masters" without knowing anything about it wink

I'll definitely share it here if I get an answer from FBG. It's also possible they'll clarify things themselves here if they get lots of emails about this.

--
Ambition summaries project (work in progress)
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writerFavours & Renown GuideDestiny Guide
Go play StoryNexus games - while you still can!
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Kharsirr Lynx
Kharsirr Lynx
Posts: 317

1/18/2020
Shadowcthuhlu wrote:
Also, well Mind of a Thunder god is the hardest of the tree areas to get there, the flavor text and additional reward is worth it


But which reward?

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Kharsirr Lynx
Kharsirr Lynx
Posts: 317

1/18/2020
erased, got the answer.

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Ultirian Yggnarsial
Ultirian Yggnarsial
Posts: 9

1/19/2020
Is this link still working? I tried to use it, but it says, "A regret!
The access code 'nemesisearlylaunch438768295782' has been used up and was not applied."

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silurica
silurica
Posts: 191

1/19/2020
The access code doesn't work anymore, the update is now available for everyone.

--
Meika Osborne, the Reckless Researcher
Leonard West, the Scarlet Informant
Chizuru Nishiooji, the Rueful Ex-Diplomat
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Ultirian Yggnarsial
Ultirian Yggnarsial
Posts: 9

1/19/2020
silurica wrote:
The access code doesn't work anymore, the update is now available for everyone.




Thank you!!!

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Always a delicious friend. Accepting Cats in Boxes, and whatever else you'd wish to send. <3
Ultirian Yggnarsial
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silurica
silurica
Posts: 191

1/20/2020
Today I received a reply to my inquiry regarding the odd paragraph in the in-game summary. Now the paragraph has been changed to the following:
[spoiler]Returning to London, you chased this new pair, discovering them to be servants of the Masters. Both had been expected to die by their former Masters, cast off.[/spoiler]
The change should be reflected in all journal echoes already.

--
Meika Osborne, the Reckless Researcher
Leonard West, the Scarlet Informant
Chizuru Nishiooji, the Rueful Ex-Diplomat
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phryne
phryne
Posts: 1329

1/20/2020
silurica wrote:
Today I received a reply to my inquiry regarding the odd paragraph in the in-game summary. Now the paragraph has been changed to the following:
[spoiler]Returning to London, you chased this new pair, discovering them to be servants of the Masters. Both had been expected to die by their former Masters, cast off.[/spoiler]
The change should be reflected in all journal echoes already.

... and the part about Scathewick's knife was completely taken out. Here's the answer I got from FB:

James Chew wrote:
I've elided both bits from the text - after consultation, we're not entirely certain where either reference came from enough to be certain of their inclusion here (Possibly a victim of over-writing here) - to make things more legible for the recap.


--
Ambition summaries project (work in progress)
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writerFavours & Renown GuideDestiny Guide
Go play StoryNexus games - while you still can!
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Tom Davidson
Tom Davidson
Posts: 101

1/23/2020
Just an update: still no Battitude.

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