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Fallen London Patch Notes Messages in this topic - RSS

Hannah Flynn
Hannah Flynn
Administrator
Posts: 491

11/29/2019
There is now a central place for Fallen London patch notes, in a dedicated channel on the new Official Discord.


The first batch of patch notes were posted today!


--
Wields the news canon, aboard the hype train.
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Siankan
Siankan
Posts: 1048

12/3/2019
Hannah Flynn wrote:
I suggest that I add a pinned thread for Fallen London patch notes, and I'll cross-post them when I can. That might sometimes be a while after they go up on Discord, depending on what else I have going that day. If you notice there are patch notes which haven't been shared here, it'd be a great help if you'd post them. How does that sound?

I appreciate this, and for patch notes it will probably do just fine. However, as community feedback has shown, this is connected to rather larger issues than patch notes. Thus I think, at this point, it might be valuable to summarize the general opinion of the forum community. (Let me first give the necessary caveat that this community is naturally less excited by Discord and similar options, on the grounds that, if we weren't, we would be over there already.)

1. We all love Fallen London, Failbetter, and the now-decade-old community of exceptionally friendly strangers that it has fostered. The old hands among us (do I count yet? not sure) have not only flipped thousands of cards, participated in dozens of events, and argued vociferously over solar politics and mayoral candidates, but have submitted bug reports, hunted down typos, and otherwise actively attempted to make both the game and the community better. London is home.

2. While we understand Failbetter's need to maintain a presence on various platforms, and that those needs shift over time, we feel a strong need for a guaranteed central clearing-house for announcements and information. We want to know that we can get all the important information in a central source and not have to scrounge different platforms and compare notes with friends in order to actually know what's going on. We want to both be and feel connected.

3. We also feel (some of us very strongly) that this central clearing-house should not be mediated by a third party, which has its own EULA and can impose its own conditions at will.

4. There is a general dislike among us of the Discord platform particularly, at least as an information clearing-house. Leaving off speculation that it is, in fact, a vehicle of the Liberation of Night, Discord is also difficult to navigate and rather unsuited for the great work of organizing and maintaining a body of literature on the game. If Failbetter thinks a presence on Discord will help them grow new players, more power to them--but that doesn't make it effective as a forum replacement.

5. We also desire a place for the community to, well, be a community, a place for serious discussions or even serious roleplay, where we can pound out thousand-word contemplations at need, where we can go back and see exactly who said what about which mayoral candidate three years ago. Fallen London, particularly, attracts thinkers and speculators, people who want something more than disposable communication. The game itself is, in a sense, at odds with the Age of Snapchat. Discord... is not.

Let me add as a personal observation that Discord works best for the sort of thing that works well on Twitch. If Failbetter's primary communications about Sunless Skies were all on Discord, I don't think anyone would complain; it's not like the Sunless Skies sub-forum is roaring hot anyway. However, Fallen London is not, and can never be, that sort of thing. It needs a different sort of space to breathe in.

6. The method of the change has exacerbated the problem. If, when the FB Discord server launched, the announcement had said that Discord was intended to become FB's primary presence on the internet and that future communications would originate there, well, there may have been Rubberies protesting in the streets, but at least we'd know the score. Instead, there has been a gradual, unannounced shift, which has led to the forum community being progressively confused, concerned, and alienated. It is rather like having a regular dinner with friends, but the friend in charge starts changing the location without telling you, and finally stops inviting you altogether, without ever explaining what's going on. This handling is not the best way to guarantee a positive reception.

7. That said, let us acknowledge what we all know: "Jitbit, umm... works." (Excepting the search function, of course; that was designed in the rose-scented pits of Hell.) It's not an ideal forum solution, and I for one am rather heartened that Failbetter's looking at other options. That presents its own challenges, of course, but sufficient for the day is the complaining thereof.

8. We can also acknowledge that Hannah is, in fact, one woman, howeverso amazingly talented, and quite possibly one without even a Peculiar Enhancement to help things along. There's only so much that one person can do (particularly if that person is determined to maintain sanity), and that increasing Failbetter's presence in one area necessitates taking that presence from other places. That's perfectly fair. Our concern is simply that the forum (and forum-goers with it) has lost too much to the effort to expand Failbetter's internet horizons.


It has, frankly, been an odd roller-coaster this year. At the election, most of us were in the dark, wondering why we weren't hearing anything about the candidates, confused when others told us that the information was being posted, but not here. As the year went on similar situations deepened this confusion into suspicion. Then Hallowmas came, with the quick responses from Surface London and the fan art comments, and there was a collective sigh of relief. Ah, we thought, the gods haven't abandoned us. They are listening. In that atmosphere, the announcements we've been discussing were felt particularly hard. It rather feels like the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark: we've been crated up and put in a warehouse, and are mostly waiting for the end credits to roll.

Now, I am adamantly certain that was not intended by anyone in Surface London. I've never had an interaction with anyone in Failbetter that has been less than delightful. Nevertheless, we are here. How do we leave? Well, the first thing I think we need is a clear statement from FB about its media plans, about exactly what role it sees the forums and Discord and Facebook and the blog and all of its other outlets playing going forward. If those plans took our concerns into account, that'd be lovely. Second, if they change in the future, we'd really love to hear up front how they're changing and what to expect. I'm not looking for perfection here, because we all know these things take on lives and directions of their own. However, I'd dearly love to be kept in the loop. (That is, in the end, what all of this is about.)
edited by Siankan on 12/3/2019

--
Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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Siankan
Siankan
Posts: 1048

11/29/2019
Does this make the forum the official Red-Headed Step-Child, then?

--
Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
+8 link
Hannah Flynn
Hannah Flynn
Administrator
Posts: 491

12/4/2019
Jolanda Swan wrote:
I'm sorry but I don't understand. You feel we need a better forum, so until then the old one is more or less abandoned even though the player base uses it?


To be as clear as possible: the point of replacing the forum software will be to make it better and more pleasant to use, to make it easier for people to find what they're looking for, and to explore whether it would be feasible to integrate the forums more closely with FL – for instance, by allowing people to use their FL login. This will be a good change, but it has nothing to do with how frequently we post on the forums.

xKiv wrote:
Oh, is that why the facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/fallenlondon /) has not been updated since ... march?


Facebook used to be a good way for us to communicate with players. Over time, though, Facebook made changes that made it less and less effective. It would hardly share any of our news to our players, even if they'd shown a lot of interest in our posts. The only way to overcome this was to pay them increasingly large sums of money to boost the posts. Since we only have one dedicated comms person and we can't fully cover every possible channel anyway, it no longer made sense for us to maintain the Facebook page.


It's pretty normal to give elevated attention to something while it's being launched, to help get it off the ground. (Like we've done with Sunless Sea and Sunless Skies, down the years, or like the in-character Twitter accounts from our early time on Twitter.) The forums are our most established space, and they're still important to us – as evidenced by the fact that we post Exceptional Stories, teasers and seasonal event news here, and that we're planning to spend time improving the software.
edited by h4nchan on 12/4/2019

--
Wields the news canon, aboard the hype train.
+7 link
Plynkes
Plynkes
Posts: 631

12/1/2019
I liked it when the forum was the main place to find out things about the game. The more you do this kind of thing, the less I feel connected to the game, and the less engaged with it I become (I couldn't be bothered with the election this year, mostly because you couldn't be bothered to tell us about the candidates here like you used to). Not interested in joining up to umpteen social media just because you guys have lost interest in the forum.

--
"Then tell Wind and Fire where to stop, but don't tell me."
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phryne
phryne
Posts: 1351

12/1/2019
Siankan wrote:
the old man wrote:
I would suggest you rage rage rage against the dying of the light

That seems to be the theme of the entire topic.

Instead of further rage ('tis not the time of year for rage!) let me propose an - at least temporary - solution:

We open a thread here called "Recently Shared on Discord" or something like that where those fine gentlepersons among you who follow the full gamut of FL-related communication channels (Forum, Reddit, Discord, Twitter, maybe even IRC if that still exists) keep us updated on things we would otherwise miss.

What do you think?
edited by phryne on 12/1/2019

--
Accounts: Bag a LegendLight FingersHeart's DesireNemesisno ambition
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writerFavours & Renown Guide
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Dudebro Pyro
Dudebro Pyro
Posts: 755

12/2/2019
Well, that's an interesting development. I was sceptical for a while of the seeming push towards reddit, but at least there you don't need to be logged in to an account to read things. Discord is a mess, and now apparently official content can't even be accessed at all without having to sign up - which, like others, I refuse to do for multiple reasons. (Honestly, if at least it was IRC, it would be bearable since at least that doesn't require you to sign up with an account, agree to T&Cs, etc. Still, for patch notes of all things, I fail to comprehend how a "chat message" model was deemed better than a "forum post" model.)

Many thanks to Azothi for the repost. I do find it rather ridiculous that users of FBG's official discussion platform have to resort to relying on fellow memebers copy-pasting things around to be able to read official announcements.

Siankan wrote:

This has made me wonder, somewhat to my surprise, whether I would stay in the Neath at that point. I love the game and still have things to do, but let's be honest: the Cider grind isn't terribly exciting on its own. The forum, with all its roleplay and debate and general friendliness, has been a chief force in keeping me engaged and involved in the Neath. The discordance that is Discord... isn't going to do it for me.

Sums up my feelings pretty well. Even though I may not have been the most active on the forums, and didn't participate in e.g. RP etc., I still lurked around and knowing the community made the game feel a lot more alive. I probably wouldn't still be here if there wasn't regular discussion of the game happening around the forums.

--
Dudebro Pyro, eccentric scholar

Spare Starveling Kitties always welcome. I collect them.
For that matter, send me your unwanted cat boxes too.
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SéamusFBG
SéamusFBG
Posts: 2

12/4/2019

Hey folks,

For those of you with a favourite login page portrait, it's possible to bookmark it like so:
https://www.fallenlondon.com/login?hero=boatman

You can replace "boatman" with (for the time being) "aunt", "edward", and "ambassador", according to your preferences.

I'll just note that this won't work without the "www" (the redirect to WWW removes the query string so you'll get a random image).



edited by SéamusFBG on 12/4/2019
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Hannah Flynn
Hannah Flynn
Administrator
Posts: 491

12/3/2019
We are indeed hoping to do this. Jitbit, umm... works, but it's not the best forum software out there, and I think we'd also prefer something that holds up a little better. When we have an idea of when and how we'll proceed with a revamp, we'll let you know.

It's worth mentioning that we only have one staff member on comms (me!), so it's hard for us to do a lot of things at once. It's also a tricky thing to try and reach new players while maintaining ongoing community spaces. You may have noticed that we've wound down our Facebook pages, and we post less on the Echo Bazaar twitter too. It is a balance, but I appreciate your feedback about patch notes, especially the point about needing an account or a work-around to even see them over there.

Discord is its own whole thing, with lots of hard thought and reasoning behind us starting a server of our own. Partly it will enable us to use its Verified channel features, like selling our games to new players, and running betas. I'm hopeful that it's going to be worth the effort, because we have really limited resources for growing our audience.

I suggest that I add a pinned thread for Fallen London patch notes, and I'll cross-post them when I can. That might sometimes be a while after they go up on Discord, depending on what else I have going that day. If you notice there are patch notes which haven't been shared here, it'd be a great help if you'd post them. How does that sound?

PS I'm glad you're excited about the playing cards! I am too! Big Grin


--
Wields the news canon, aboard the hype train.
+5 link
PSGarak
PSGarak
Posts: 834

12/2/2019
I am also going to voice my discontent with the current state of the forums, community, and communication. I'm going to consolidate my thoughts into a few separate chunks, for the sake of my criticism being constructive.

  • Communication that is meant to be openly available should be posted on a venue that is openly available. Something like patch notes should not be restricted to a platform like Discord, which requires another sign-up, and I think maybe an app install as well. It's ok for some discussion to be gated or not widely broadcast, but announcements like seasonal events, upcoming content changes, and patch notes really need to be at least as available as the game itself. (I can't comment on Discord itself because I haven't used it.)
  • I would like more clarity from FBG on what are the "preferred" communication channels. There used to be a lot of direct engagement on the Forums, then for a while it felt like there wasn't. I understand that some changes in direction were probably reactionary or organic, and thinking about the forest from the trees is harder when the comms person is out (<3 Hannah, hope the injury is getting better). While I would not like to see an official announcement "The forums are dead, long live Discord!" having that be actually announced would be better than just seeing forum involvement taper off and wondering where the party is.
  • I think it would be better to have fewer official channels rather than more. I feel like the community is currently being fractured between different platforms (forums, reddit, discord), and some of those sub-communities are not large enough to sustain themselves. It also just naturally means that discussions won't have as many participants as they could. (Obviously there's nothing FBG could or should to to prevent unofficial platforms, which reddit might be one.)
  • All else being equal, I think that FBG would be doing a better service to its players to use its own platforms (Blog for announcements, forums for discussion) rather than relying on third-party platforms (reddit, discord, twitter, facebook). A third-party platform means that as a player, I have to have a relationship with some other company in order to have a relationship with FBG. I don't always want to do that, and I hear a lot of other players saying they don't want to do that either. It also puts both FBG and players at the mercy of that platforms content and moderation policies, which can also have downsides. (I understand that it is not always equal. E.g. spam goes up on the forums outside of FBG's working hours, and no one's around to deal with it. Managing your own platform is a headache. I'm just trying to tell you, as a player, what the impacts are to me.)

I like Fallen London, and I like FBG, and I want y'all to succeed. I'm not writing this all down to vent, I'm doing it because I know you listen to players and I think it's worth my time to give you this feedback. I hope that community engagement is a point of emphasis for FBG in 2020.

--
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/PSGarak
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Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1789

12/1/2019
Seriously? Why not post them here, too?
The Discord format is beyond messy and having to follow it to get info on time, seems coercive. Especially after so many complaints.

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1789

12/1/2019
I am sure it's busy. I am not sure if it can generate the same long-term commitment, for a variety of reasons.

Phryne's suggestion is great, of course, but one thing FL always had going, was that player feedback in the forums was always read and taken into consideration by the dev team. Getting the news is one thing; knowing your experience counts is another. Having to add another app/account for that... is a bit much, when there is a dedicated forum with active participants. Plus I doubt the organized, easily-available-for-years convos here can be replicated anywhere. I am using guides and playing old ES according to help given in the forums.

I am not sure why oficially posting info here, when it has been requested so many times, is frowned upon. To give an example, the elections, which for many of us just suddenly happened without the teasing and discussions and official candidate threads of previous years, suffered for it. Hence the disconnect which again, is a very fitting word.
edited by Jolanda Swan on 12/1/2019

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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Azothi
Azothi
Posts: 586

11/30/2019
Ulysses Kingfisher wrote:
Jermaine Vendredi wrote:
But maybe I can mention that there are goodies to be had? Coffee and other stuff...

How in the Neath would one find them in all that mess?
The Darkdrop Coffee (x3) and future important information can be found in the #announcements channel. Patch notes can be found in the appropriately named #patch-notes channel. Most of the other channels are purely for discussion purposes.

Not posting the patch notes here makes sense as a marketing push, but in the interest of those who would prefer not to be on Discord:

[spoiler]- A new look landing page in honour of Fallen London's upcoming 10th birthday on 11th January 2020. This is just the beginning of the celebrations!

- Removal of SuperRewards as a payment option. SuperRewards is mostly used by players who need to pay in less common currencies. (97% of you use our other payment system, Braintree, which will be unaffected, and this won't affect subscriptions at all.) We’re sorry we couldn't provide more notice: we were only informed a few days ago. Given the short notice, we can't say yet when and if we'll add support for another payment provider or other payment methods: we expect to investigate in the next few weeks. If there were any payment methods that were particularly useful to you, though, please let us know in #fallen-london so we have a clearer sense of which ones it would be most helpful for us to support.

- An updated Help page, including links to this very Discord. Please watch out for lost new players, and give them any advice you can in #beginner-advice. We were all fresh from New Newgate once!

- A fix for a rare Bazaar interface bug.

- Also, we’d like to confirm that the card frequency bug which bothered your decks has been fixed.
[/spoiler]
edited by Azothi on 11/30/2019

--
Azoth I, the Emissary of Cardinals - A Paramount Presence (not currently accepting new Proteges)
Away to where the Chain cannot bind us.
Hesperidean.
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Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1789

12/1/2019
Disconnect is exactly what I felt. I loved the new ES, I loved the new Hallowmass to the point I spent Fate again on small things like the plant... and now this. Not being able to find the new codes in the mess that is Discord didn't help either.

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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Siankan
Siankan
Posts: 1048

12/1/2019
I noticed that the official Advent Calendar announcement pointed everyone to the FB Discord, and Discord only. It makes one wonder whether the forum is slated to go the way of StoryNexus (which, let us remember, they once said they would always maintain).

This has made me wonder, somewhat to my surprise, whether I would stay in the Neath at that point. I love the game and still have things to do, but let's be honest: the Cider grind isn't terribly exciting on its own. The forum, with all its roleplay and debate and general friendliness, has been a chief force in keeping me engaged and involved in the Neath. The discordance that is Discord... isn't going to do it for me.
edited by Siankan on 12/1/2019

--
Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1789

12/1/2019
Eh, to think it could have been avoided easily. At Hallowmass, everyone was delighted the thread was posted in the forum, clarifications were made about why the forum was left out for so long, and there was even a comment on a player's artwork. I do not doubt that every little bit counts as work for FB, but the reactions make it clear that players feel the neglect of the forums accutely, no matter how popular Discord might become (and given the format, I doubt it can generate the same amount of devotion even if it gets busy.

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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silurica
silurica
Posts: 210

11/30/2019
Well, that's certainly not what I expected when I clicked on the thread title.

--
Meika Osborne, the Reckless Researcher
Leonard West, the Scarlet Informant
Chizuru Nishiooji, the Rueful Ex-Diplomat
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Tyrconnell
Tyrconnell
Posts: 271

11/30/2019
Is it really too much to ask that the notes be put here, too, where they are more accessible and don't require another app?

--
Tyrconnell, a gentleman and doctor of diverse interests and multifarious proclivities
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Optimatum
Optimatum
Posts: 3666

12/2/2019
On a related note, we got a teaser on the discord of the upcoming merchandise: Fallen London playing cards, featuring the Topsy King as the King of Bats!

--
Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.

Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!

PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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phryne
phryne
Posts: 1351

12/2/2019
Optimatum wrote:
On a related note, we got a teaser on the discord of the upcoming merchandise: Fallen London playing cards, featuring the Topsy King as the King of Bats!

I assume the four suits will be Bats, Cats, Hats and Rats? smile

--
Accounts: Bag a LegendLight FingersHeart's DesireNemesisno ambition
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writerFavours & Renown Guide
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Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1789

12/3/2019
I'm sorry but I don't understand. You feel we need a better forum, so until then the old one is more or less abandoned even though the player base uses it? It's loaded with guides and years of lore speculation available to everyone.

As someone already said, for long-term players the forums are what keeps them tethered to the game. And Discord might attract new players (which of course is necessary for a company) but for many of those already playing, it's unusable. Being forced to use this mess to connect to the game is... Not nice. I don't mind not getting Twitter or blog posts, but having to sit through Discord to get necessary news for the game (patch notes, info for upcoming events etc) is slowly but certainly pushing me away from Fallen London.
Apologies if the tone sounds combative. I love the world you create and the community, which is why this feels like a loss.

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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Siankan
Siankan
Posts: 1048

12/2/2019
Well, we all know who the Queen of Cats will be. Also, someone please tell me the Queen of Bats is Mme Shoshana.

--
Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1789

12/4/2019
This is somehow comforting to hear - and so is the fact that the new small changes were posted here too, today.

I hope that if a new space is found for the forums, the old content will move wholesale there. Again, they are like an encyclopedia, much more precious than the wiki IMHO.

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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Jeremiah Oathes
Jeremiah Oathes
Posts: 73

12/3/2019
Yes, thank you very much!

I may be posting only so much in the forums, but I read them very regularly.

For me too the forums are the life line that keeps me connected to the game. I am mostly grinding at the moment and have a huge backlog of ES to play. But reading the forums, seeing old and new faces, gets me in the mood for coming back every so often.

Anyways, thank you everyone for making this place so cozy. I really like being here, almost as much as playing the game itself.

--
Dr Jeremiah Oathes - Natural Philosopher, Alchemist and Anatomist (part-time). Occasionally in Service to the Crown and the Bazaar. Would like to dissect a Master (for science and mad laughter).
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phryne
phryne
Posts: 1351

12/3/2019
Basically agree with everything Sian Kan said, especially statement No. 5. Thank you!

--
Accounts: Bag a LegendLight FingersHeart's DesireNemesisno ambition
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writerFavours & Renown Guide
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silurica
silurica
Posts: 210

12/4/2019
I've been following this thread quietly, but I won't lie, I feel there is a degree of unnecessary negativity toward Discord and/or its community here. Yes, Discord's format isn't for everyone. Yes, even I still prefer forum format to some degree, even if I'm not terribly active here (The Bazaar is the only subforum I frequent semi-regularly). Yes, perhaps all these matters about patch notes and update could've been done better.

Siankan wrote:
5. We also desire a place for the community to, well, be a community, a place for serious discussions or even serious roleplay, where we can pound out thousand-word contemplations at need, where we can go back and see exactly who said what about which mayoral candidate three years ago. Fallen London, particularly, attracts thinkers and speculators, people who want something more than disposable communication. The game itself is, in a sense, at odds with the Age of Snapchat. Discord... is not.


However, seeing posts like this really disheartens me. I've had a good time discussing the world and lore of Fallen London and roleplaying my characters in Discord, doing so with many people. These posts read like it's impossible to have ~serious~ conversation in Discord, so much that instead they make me wonder, "Have you really given Discord a chance...?"

--
Meika Osborne, the Reckless Researcher
Leonard West, the Scarlet Informant
Chizuru Nishiooji, the Rueful Ex-Diplomat
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Siankan
Siankan
Posts: 1048

12/4/2019
silurica wrote:
However, seeing posts like this really disheartens me. I've had a good time discussing the world and lore of Fallen London and roleplaying my characters in Discord, doing so with many people. These posts read like it's impossible to have ~serious~ conversation in Discord, so much that instead they make me wonder, "Have you really given Discord a chance...?"

That is entirely fair. I don't want to paint Discord (or anything else) as the Big Bad Wolf, and I don't mean to suggest that it's impossible to have serious conversations or serious roleplay there. (I know people who've used Discord for full D&D campaigns, which says something itself.)

The problem is not so much with the platform itself; rather, it is that

1) Failbetter's gravitational center is shifting toward Discord and away from the forum, and
2) this change has been mostly unheralded and uncommunicated.

The first is concerning, because Discord is not as conducive for maintaining a sizable body of literature in a navigable form. (Indeed, the commonest complaints I've heard about Discord generally or the FB server specifically is the difficulty of navigating anything.) The second is concerning because it makes those who haven't (for whichever reasons) decided to engage on Discord feel unceremoniously dropped. This feels particularly unfair because 1) the official forum is generally supposed to be, well, official, and 2) forum-goers represent the oldest and most established Fallen London community, with people who have been here longer than my children have been alive.

I think, in the end, communication is really the key, as it always has been. What is the difference between this year's Hallowmas (which had very little in the way of complaint) and the two before (which were marked by noticeable grumbling)? There were many, of course, too many to simplify down to, but one of the biggest was improved communication. We all knew exactly what we needed and what we were supposed to do from the first day, and consequently we skipped over the confession angst that had marked prior Hallowmasses. So here. If Failbetter's plan was always to move Discord to chief place and relegate the forums to an auxiliary role, it were best that we had been told that from day one. That way people, if they chose not to move over to Discord, would at least know what they were rejecting. As is, the general impression was that Discord was the new auxiliary endeavour, and those who didn't want to add another account on another website could expect the forum to continue its traditional role as the chief organ for Failbetter to connect with the community. That this assumption seems to have been proven wrong, without any communication to that effect, sets up the sort of feel-bad bait-and-switch moment one got last year from talking to the mayor and losing Hallowmas progress, but on a much greater scale.

Thus my reason why, whatever I think of Discord or Failbetter's announcement practices, the chief thing I really want is clear communication. You can handle most anything if you know the lay of the land, and little to nothing if you don't.

--
Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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Skinnyman
Skinnyman
Posts: 2133

12/4/2019
phryne wrote:
We open a thread here called "Recently Shared on Discord" or something like that where those fine gentlepersons among you who follow the full gamut of FL-related communication channels (Forum, Reddit, Discord, Twitter, maybe even IRC if that still exists) keep us updated on things we would otherwise miss.
What do you think?
Sounds more than deli... great!


Jolanda Swan wrote:
Plus I doubt the organized, easily-available-for-years convos here can be replicated anywhere. I am using guides and playing old ES according to help given in the forums.
I feel you here! Even with the limited search engine on the forum, it does provide great knowledge!
From the Court of Cats thread I saw that there's a card to that story and it seems it wasn't well known at all! All of this because the forum's are a great way to archive things and have condensed messages in one post.

--
ESs items and quality requirements sheet. Please check if there are errors or if something is missing
Achievement list if you're feeling bored!
I am accepting Plant battles, Neath's Mysteries card, Starveling Cats and boxed cats.
No suppers, no second chances gain and no need to cure my menaces!
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Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1789

12/4/2019
Imagine buying an old ES and needing some guidance. Or wanting to embark on any grind and needing guidance. Or wondering about the lore and needing pointers. Can you visit Discord without an account, quietly read a guide to get the info and return to the game?

Until now you could visit the forum, even without logging in, and read condensed, well thought-out guides, without the "superfluous" chat that is going on and on in newest platforms. It's like a book, (and this is a bookish game for people who like to read quietly). People often lurk without participating, or read it without logging in. All this is impossible in Discord. The flashiness and speed isn't for everyone - I assume you can do everything you can do here, but you have to be able to tolerate everything else going on, too.



Please note that nobody is saying drop Discord. Obviously, it serves a purpose for the company and lots of people like it. What we are saying is that the forums are equally necessary, and that, unfortunately, doesn't change because FB finds it hard to maintain them.
I wish I had a magic solution to the very understandable and relatable problem of being understaffed. None of our resentment means we don't know realize maintaining an online presence is hard. But I imagine FB wants to know when its oldest customers/playerbase has issues with their decisions, and why.
edited by Jolanda Swan on 12/4/2019

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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Winthropx
Winthropx
Posts: 166

12/3/2019
I’ve come to rely on the forums for my questions and connections for Fallen London. I don’t want to create another account to follow information about. I recently joined Reddit, and I really don’t feel like joining another platform. Fallen London is also the only game I’ve spent real money on and have a continuing subscription with. The writing and the community on the forums are what drew me to that decision. I don’t want the community to be spread across more platforms.

--
Bishop Winthrop, a kind-hearted soul
A Paramount Presence
I accept all social actions
His Appearance
http://community.failbettergames.com/topic9363-your-characters-appearances.aspx?messageid=229809&Page=10#post#post229809
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Azothi
Azothi
Posts: 586

12/2/2019
phryne wrote:
Optimatum wrote:
On a related note, we got a teaser on the discord of the upcoming merchandise: Fallen London playing cards, featuring the Topsy King as the King of Bats!

I assume the four suits will be Bats, Cats, Hats and Rats? smile
Yep.

They will also be featuring the Traitor Empress - I mean, Her Enduring Majesty - and each of the face cards will be a named character.

--
Azoth I, the Emissary of Cardinals - A Paramount Presence (not currently accepting new Proteges)
Away to where the Chain cannot bind us.
Hesperidean.
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phryne
phryne
Posts: 1351

11/30/2019
I guess I'll continue to stay away from Discord out of sheer obstinacy now, if nothing else. wink

And after all, I don't need to know everything beforehand. The new landing page yesterday was a pleasant surprise and I'm looking forward to many more surprises coming my way over the next months!

--
Accounts: Bag a LegendLight FingersHeart's DesireNemesisno ambition
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writerFavours & Renown Guide
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Optimatum
Optimatum
Posts: 3666

12/1/2019
Siankan wrote:
I noticed that the official Advent Calendar announcement pointed everyone to the FB Discord, and Discord only. It makes one wonder whether the forum is slated to go the way of StoryNexus (which, let us remember, they once said they would always maintain).


I have to wonder how much of it is related to the age and relative unpolish of the forum software — although I heard a reputable rumor that FBG may revamp the forums next year wink

--
Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.

Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!

PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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c-schroed
c-schroed
Posts: 19

12/2/2019
Dudebro Pyro wrote:
Discord is a mess, and now apparently official content can't even be accessed at all without having to sign up - which, like others, I refuse to do for multiple reasons.



I definitely agree with the first part, it is quite a mess there. However, it is not neccessary to sign up. You just need to pick a username for your session, and yes, afterwards you will be asked for an E-Mail address and password - but if you click somewhere outside of this dialogue box, it will go away, and you can read the announcements without having made an account. You can't comment without an account, though.

So, although I too would prefer the announcements to be made here in the forums, at least this seems to be pretty fair to me.



edited by c-schroed on 12/2/2019 (just corrected a spelling error)
edited by c-schroed on 12/2/2019

--
Cattus Schroedingeris, the Consulting Explorer, scientist and author, at your service!

Kitty Schroedingeris, the Plot-weaving Minx, his Cousin, who is always plotting something.

"Always look to love. Always."
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Jermaine Vendredi
Jermaine Vendredi
Posts: 588

11/30/2019
I set up an account on the Discord when it first appeared, but the format is frankly awful. Chaotic and without any through line. But maybe I can mention that there are goodies to be had? Coffee and other stuff...

--
No plant battles, please.
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Jermion
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c-schroed
c-schroed
Posts: 19

12/2/2019
PSGarak wrote:
  • All else being equal, I think that FBG would be doing a better service to its players to use its own platforms (Blog for announcements, forums for discussion) rather than relying on third-party platforms (reddit, discord, twitter, facebook). A third-party platform means that as a player, I have to have a relationship with some other company in order to have a relationship with FBG. I don't always want to do that, and I hear a lot of other players saying they don't want to do that either. It also puts both FBG and players at the mercy of that platforms content and moderation policies, which can also have downsides. (I understand that it is not always equal. E.g. spam goes up on the forums outside of FBG's working hours, and no one's around to deal with it. Managing your own platform is a headache. I'm just trying to tell you, as a player, what the impacts are to me.)

I absolutely agree with that! Personally, I think Discord and Reddit are great additional channels (although I myself don't use either of them regularly), and FBG does these communities an excellent service by supporting them. But I still see their blog and forums as the first and foremost source of game-related information.

And although Discord can be read without signing up, I would clearly prefer to get my information from the forums and/or the blog, as previously.

--
Cattus Schroedingeris, the Consulting Explorer, scientist and author, at your service!

Kitty Schroedingeris, the Plot-weaving Minx, his Cousin, who is always plotting something.

"Always look to love. Always."
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Lady Karnstein
Lady Karnstein
Posts: 278

12/5/2019
Yes Thanks so much for the feedback!

--
Lady Caroline Karnstein, The Moral Hedonist (Description)
Infamous writer, artist, and courtesan. Unrepentant Invert. Hesperidean.
Paramount Presence, Correspondent, Nocturnal. Poet Laureate of the Neath, Ambassador to Arbor
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