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Quidam
Quidam
Posts: 34

9/12/2019
Reading the forums can sometimes be a bit of a cold shower for someone who doesn't know much about the lore of Fallen London. There's this sense that every secret has been discovered and everything has been done. It's nobody's fault, it's just an extension of the fact that most people who post on this forum have been playing for years. However, it can kill the excitement of understanding a part of the lore, or the pleasure of trying (and failing) to solve a mystery. I don't know much about the early history of the community, but I am guessing that it wasn't always like this.

So I was thinking, which for me is rare. What if we created a thread for newbie who want to speculate on the plot? We could talk about weird things we read and create wild crazy theories. Meanwhile, the veteran could give us clues, or just laugh at how wrong we are. I don't know if one topic would be enough, in that case we could indicate on the title of the threads that this is "for" newbie (again, the veterans could post in those topic, I just would be thankful if they try to not spoil too much). I am probably not the only neophyte here, and I think it would also encourage new people to post on the forums. Also, if we go on a while, we will become knowledgeable enough to be veteran, and then new players would post another topic for them to speculate, and I am all in favor of eternal recurrences.

So all start: After an expedition, I received as a reward a weird message about things that is and things that is-not (with the hyphen). I think it has to do with the fact that Parabola is the land of dream, and so is-not. The message then said that what is-not is destroyed by the sun, and corroded by the star. I am not quite sure what that means. If we wake up because of the sun, and therefore destroy the dream, then what does "corroded by the stars" means? Beside, the light of the sun doesn't reach the neath, right?

--
Just another face in the crowd
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Quidam
A hunger, a curse, a question
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Limos
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Catherine Raymond
Catherine Raymond
Posts: 2470

9/12/2019
The Forums were not even created until 2011, by which time the game had been available for about two years.

But yes, the Community has evolved, a lot, driven in part by the addition of stories by FBG and in part by changing approaches to play brought by the players. I think your idea for a newbie thread for speculation is great, and even if it doesn't happen, I'd suggest not digging into the Forums too deeply until you have explored quite a bit on your own.

Good luck, and welcome!

--
Cathy Raymond
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355

Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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Optimatum
Optimatum
Posts: 3627

9/12/2019
It's a great idea! The forums feel a bit empty these days now that all us lore-hounds don't have much to puzzle over, so I love the idea of newer users getting to experience something similar. (Plus us old-time users get to see things we'd completely forgotten about. I wonder what a corroded dream would be like...)

--
Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.

Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!

PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Tystefy
Tystefy
Posts: 445

9/13/2019
*snip* Begone, definitive answer.
edited by Tystefy on 9/13/2019

--
Will sometimes return to post absurdity.
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Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1727

9/13/2019
Testify, since this is a thread for newbie speculation, they probably don't want an answer. They need to speculate without us lore-ladden players telling them what is actually going on.
Or did I musunderstand the purpose of the thread?

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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Quidam
Quidam
Posts: 34

2/14/2020
I am bringing this old thread back because I recently went to saw a... interesting play with the Lady in Lilac. Now, my conversation with said Lady is interesting, but I want to focus on the actual play, specifically what seemed to be the climax. If you haven't seen the play, there's gonna be a link to my profile below with the text, but this content is definitely spoiler.

[spoiler] Okay, here's the link: [url=] https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Quidam/17743133
The play depicted the trial and the execution the messenger, the messenger's daughter and of the sun. Indeed, the seventh dragon recite the crimes of both the messenger and the sun. It's not clear if "the Chained Sun" is a name, as indicated by the upper case, or if it is a literal description. The ending says that the dragon ate the prisoners, plural, which seems to indicate the latter but then, why the upper case? Anyway, it seems like the messenger and the sun (the Chained Sun?) had a relationship and gave birth to the messengers daughter. Indeed, two of the crimes recited by the dragon is Vile breeding and Unlicensed love. What license, where they supposed to be married or is this just an other way of saying that it's unlawful? An other crime cited is Conspiracy in Darkness. Now, I am playing Sunless Sea (I know, I'm late) and I happen to know that darkness in the neath is a thing in itself, has in it's not just the absence of light. Is it that kind of darkness they are talking about? If not, why are they adding that bit? As for the rest of the charges, it seems to be postal fraud. More seriously, what does Betrayal of Messages means?
The Lady kept referring to the bazaar has the Courrier, so I am guessing that the Messenger is the bazaar again (in fact, Maybe's Daughter and the Cladery Heir said something similar) However, what are the dragons? One has Truth on is horn. Is Truth a person? Who is the Hunter? What is the blood of the world. Where is the wound of the world? Are the two linked? It is said that the place represent the wound of the world, so it is not exactly it. Does that mean that it's a theater prop, or do the dragons can give their judgement only in a representation of the wound of the world?
Also, at the end, there's a bit that mentions "red sounds". Obviously, this is a literary device and I am not gonna say "Sounds can't have a color" like a pedant (though I am definitely one), and we do say white noise, however I do not understand the meaning of this quote. What type of sound Would be described as red? This is the scene of a carnage so there's probably a lot of chewing and screaming. Are those red sounds? Again, this is not a critique, I just want to understand. [/spoiler]

So as you can see, I really enjoyed the discussion and the play.

Edit: Okay, so the link does not work. No matter, if you want to read it, you can go in my profile and search for an entry named "Not yet enough. Not yet enough." At the time of this writing, it should be on the second page (for posterity: the 13 February 1898).

Second Edit: https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Quidam/17743133
edited by Quidam on 2/14/2020
edited by Quidam on 2/14/2020

--
Just another face in the crowd
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Quidam
A hunger, a curse, a question
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Limos
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Miss Verity Green
Miss Verity Green
Posts: 21

2/14/2020
The link doesn't work because of the spoiler tag. If you move it outside its bounds, all will be well.

Now, as for your questions, I think poking about in the lore wiki will help answer most of them.

Spoilers abound there, of course:

https://thefifthcity.fandom.com/wiki/The_Seventh_Letter

https://thefifthcity.fandom.com/wiki/Judgements

https://thefifthcity.fandom.com/wiki/The_Echo_Bazaar

https://thefifthcity.fandom.com/wiki/The_Masters_of_the_Bazaar
edited by Miss Verity Green on 2/14/2020
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Quidam
Quidam
Posts: 34

2/14/2020
Thank you for your response. However, with all due respect, this does not answer all the questions I have.

[spoiler] If the bazaar serve the Sun, then why said Sun still get executed by the dragons? I thought it was the Sun who will kill the bazaar once it delivers its message, but it dies too. The messengers daughter seems to be Stone, so I'll play more of Sunless seas to understand how that work. However, I still don't know who or what are the Dragons, Truth, The Blood of the World, the Wound in the World, etc. [/spoiler]

--
Just another face in the crowd
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Quidam
A hunger, a curse, a question
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Limos
+1 link
Miss Verity Green
Miss Verity Green
Posts: 21

2/14/2020
I would have been surprised if all your questions were answered, but I will try to clear up the remaining ones. smile This all every dense business.


[spoiler] The Bazaar is a delivery messenger (or courier) for the Judgements, so it serves the Sun, but not exclusively. The Sun doesn't want to kill the Bazaar, the Dragons do (along with the Sun and their Daughter), for the crimes you saw listed in the play. The Dragons are "enforcement-emanations of Law", sort of cosmic police-beings, if you will, and they are hunting for the Bazaar and its Daughter, who are hiding out in the Neath, which is shielded from the Dragons by the whim-wham of Irrigo (at least; there may be other reasons why the Neath is so weird, but that's surely one of them). Truth (with a capital T) is a little fuzzier to me. The lore wiki has the quote "Time is (as Aulus Gellius knew) the father of Truth, but is also of course in turn the child of Law," but I'm not sure where that came from. But one of the Dragons has Time gored on its horn, so maybe it's saying that time has run out and law will now be applied? The Wound in the World seems to be the place the trial is being held, but I don't know if we can say more about it from context (I mean, what is "The World" when you're speaking on a universal scale?) Presumably, the Blood comes from the Wound. Maybe the Dragons had to tear open a rift in Space and Time to be able to hold this trial at all? [/spoiler]

I'd love to hear if anyone else has opinions on this stuff. And if you've further questions I didn't get to, Quidam, please post again!
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