Powered by Jitbit .Net Forum free trial version.

HomeFallen London » Off topic: The Surface

Discuss topics unrelated to our games here - as ever, be courteous and have fun!

Alexis Kennedy hit w/ multiple #MeToo allegations Messages in this topic - RSS

Televangelist
Televangelist
Posts: 108

8/28/2019
I feel sad and angry and sad again.



Mod edit: This thread is about a topic that's raw for a lot of people, but we feel it's important that people are able to discuss the issue within these forums. We don't think it's reasonable to ask Diptych to moderate it, so FBG are monitoring it during UK working hours, and it will be closed outside those hours.


Update: As things have slowed, we are going to stop locking the thread overnight for the time being. FBG are still moderating.
edited by h4nchan on 9/25/2019
edited by h4nchan on 9/30/2019
+2 link
Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1584

9/10/2019
Everyone in this forum liked Alexis or at least his work enough to be here. We were obviously touched by something he co-created. So nobody enjoyed hearing the allegations, not least because even if you are completely indifferent towards what happened, we don't want them to impact FBG and their other projects.


So no, nobody is gleefully waving a torch, happy for the entertainment a lynching provides. People are upset and they are expressing that. Should we wait for a courtroom or a work tribunal to opine on the cases, just to express the fact we find the situtation both believable and incredibly sad?

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
+19 link
Hannah Flynn
Hannah Flynn
Administrator
Posts: 424

9/17/2019
We retired this thread temporarily pending consideration of what to do with it, as we don't feel it's fair or reasonable under the circumstances to ask Diptych to moderate it, and we can't provide full moderation cover ourselves. However, we recognise the community's need to talk about the situation, and we don't want to push that discussion elsewhere.


We've decided to reinstate the thread, locking it when we can't adequately cover moderation duties: over the weekends, and outside of 0900 - 1800 BST.

Please keep all discussion of the matter to this thread, and please, remember that this matter is of considerable importance, impact and sensitivity to several of our staff.


--
Wields the news canon, aboard the hype train.
+14 link
Diptych
Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3426

9/8/2019
Drake Dynamo wrote:
Why not back in 2017, during the initial MeToo wave?


Because of the threats he made, and because those who have been abused and traumatised don't owe it to you to reveal that abuse and trauma at a time that suits your schedule.


Drake Dynamo wrote:
If Alexis was such an awful person, why was nearly everyone so amiable about him?



Because abusers are often good at hiding their bad behaviour and being charming, while those that did know the truth remained publicly silent out of respect for the wishes of the victims.

--
Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
+13 link
Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1584

9/11/2019
Nobody know what the victims wanted when they chose to disclose what happened. It is also possible that they didn't have any particular aim in mind.
Personally, I believe what they wanted was a) to not be silenced anymore regarding what happened to them, since this is a terrible burden to carry. If you had your purse stolen, if you crashed your car etc you would speak about your experience, share it and be comforted. Abuse tends to be hidden and turn into personal shame. Getting it out in the open, like any misfortune, is in itself an unburdening.
b) I am guessing they want to protect others. They might well be worrying that as long as the story remains hidden, those who kept silent are in a way responsible for the next person who gets used and threatened. Given that mentorship and help to new designers was such a big part of AK's public face, it must have made it even harder to keep silent.

I don't think they necessarily require a specific response from us as consumers. They added a fact to our pool of knowledge; we can decide whether we want to support any new games AK makes or not, given these new facts. After all, every person has different criteria regarding how they spend their money or what they do with art made by less than ideal people. But at least, new game designers are now more prepared to avoid coercive situations, and similar behaviors are at least stigmatized as unwanted.
edited by Jolanda Swan on 9/11/2019

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
+12 link
phryne
phryne
Posts: 1255

9/24/2019
Desirée wrote:
Failbetter CEO about the situation; his personal stance, not FB-s: https://medium.com/@wastebooks/alexis-kennedy-71044efc0ecf

Thanks for sharing. This is a shocking read. Contrasting it with AK's response blog post from last week, two things are becoming more and more obvious: that AK really is a notorious liar and that he really goes around habitually threatening people (and, as a third point, he seems to be really good at both).

I mean, just look at this:

  • I know several people who experience fear and anxiety when they attend industry events because of the possibility they’ll encounter him.
  • I know multiple people who ask friends or colleagues to go to their conference talks to support them in the event he attends.
  • Multiple people who’d had little direct contact with him in years have broken out in tears while telling me about his role in their lives.

I didn't really think AK could be painted in a worse light than in the original accusations, but this is a different league. I hoped that he had "only" occasionally misbehaved and was too stubborn to believe it (not an excuse, just so we understand each other) but this is the very definition of the kind of creep you never want to meet.

Also, remember how he (and Lottie) harped on about how he nearly killed himself after everything that happened? Well, this seems like another old trick of his:

We had the meeting. I told him my concerns. He told me it was none of my business, and that I’d damaged his mental health (he used the words ‘nervous breakdown’).

"Don't criticize me, it's bad for my mental health. Do it again and hey, I might kill myself! Do you want that?"


Seriously, AK: go **** yourself.
edited by phryne on 9/24/2019

--
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writerFavours & Renown GuideDestiny Guide
Go play StoryNexus games - while you still can!
+10 link
Passionario
Passionario
Posts: 776

8/28/2019
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the maker of Seeking Mr. Eaten's Name would find a new way for us to feel utterly betrayed.

"Tigers lie", indeed.

--
Passionario: Profile, Story, Ending
Passion: Profile, Appearance
+10 link
Lord Alexander Alderman
Lord Alexander Alderman
Posts: 62

8/28/2019
I guess absolutely nothing is ever safe from one person souring it for everyone, but if anything, we should play FB's games just the same, we can enjoy his works, but not allow him a cent of profit. Let Failbetter recover from this shock, and leave him behind as a memory, and a well spoken rule to not be like him. This kind of reporting will only help the industry grow and mature, growing wiser. Don't let the works of the kind people who had to deal with him also become deodands, further inconveniencing them.
edited by Lord Alexander Alderman on 8/28/2019
+10 link
MidnightVoyager
MidnightVoyager
Posts: 822

8/28/2019
https://twitter.com/failbettergames/status/1166824225778352129

See the thread. Information included: "We no longer have any ties with him personally, creatively or financially."
edited by MidnightVoyager on 8/28/2019

--
Midnight Voyager - A blood-cousin to predators. Collector of beasts. Affably mad.
+9 link
Waterpls
Waterpls
Posts: 256

9/17/2019
Justice is too broad term. Better to talk about crime prevention. Thare are two known ways.
1. Make punishment harsher. It works, but not very effective, that's why in modern societies we no longer have public tortures, executions, humiliations, etc.
2. Make punishment more certain. If its highly likely that you will be punished for you crime, then you will think twice before committing to it. Its effective. But not ideal, most criminals are not smart, educated or even have alternatives.

I do not see how call-outs can help "the millions who get abused and never get any justice". Because its weak in both ways. Hard punishment is reserved for courts (and its great). And public shaming is very unreliable. Today twitter crowd cares about women abuse at work, tomorrow it might be family violence, ecology, pedophilia, animal rights or Mr. Eaten knows what. And even if your case accidentally the same as the fashion of the season you have to be lucky or known in broad circles (or your abuser).

I believe that only institutional changes can provide good long-term solutions. So yeah, court practices and ethical committees for large enough companies / organizations.
edited by Waterpls on 9/17/2019

--
Long grinds: Heptagoat 1/7; Cider Done; Correspondence 21/21; Paramount 4/4.
+9 link
menaulon
menaulon
Posts: 98

9/24/2019
A very important read. The statement has a good summation of the situation and adds specific examples of Alexis's behavior, both elaborating on what has been revealed and a few new details. Provides specific evidence for people who are saying there wasn't any before. "Why talk about this?" section is especially good at explaining what is the goal of making information public and holding Alexis accountable for his actions, so it's a good counterpoint to Lottie's article.

Adam makes it very clear that Alexis lied in his PCGamesN article and still lying now about stepping down as Lottie's direct manager and about informing the whole firm (Failbetter had already stated most of this to RPShotgun here: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/09/04/alexis-kennedy-denies-allegations-of-abusive-or-coercive-behaviour/).

Alexis wrote:
I've booked in a meeting for us this afternoon, for an hour. Call it an enhanced 1-on-1.
We need to have a candid conversation about a cluster of related issues, including but very much not limited to the issue you raised with Paul before you went on holiday.

This was how Alexis responded the concerns about his relationship with Lottie (full quote in the article). To me, this is very much a "not a threat, but …" statement and a example of pressure and intimidation towards a subordinate. This fits the pattern of behavior described in the accusations and does not at all fit Alexis's claims that he is a harmless bumbler in over his head and a victim of unfounded rumors. This increases my doubt that Lottie was completely unaware of any allegations towards Alexis, since she would know that he was lying about stepping down as her manager immediately.

--
Menaulon
Open to social actions, but would prefer to be betrayed in the search for Photographer.
+8 link
Waterpls
Waterpls
Posts: 256

9/17/2019
@Diptych general public have enough power to ruin reputation, career and business. That power should not be used on "i belive even without proofs" basis.

As far as i know some members of Weather Factory left, some volunteers left, kickstarter campaign for new game is stopped (and probably would be stillborn if started).
edited by Waterpls on 9/17/2019

--
Long grinds: Heptagoat 1/7; Cider Done; Correspondence 21/21; Paramount 4/4.
+8 link
phryne
phryne
Posts: 1255

9/16/2019
(Really just ordering my thoughts here while writing this down...)

Of course whisper networks aren't a very viable way of protection for everyone. They do work for some people, but their usefulness is always limited. I don't think that's a very important point. There are many others, in both posts.

And of course this was never about rape. Cathyr19355 pointed out on the first page of this thread that the term "predator" was at least a tad too strong. All the accusations leveled at AK basically came down to this: A) that he is a "creep" who regularly makes women around him feel extremely uncomfortable. The most serious accusation B) was that he was not only fully aware of this, but actively working to silence people about this issue.

It would certainly be interesting to learn who ran the original "IndustryAbuse" twitter account who started spreading the accusations about AK and others, but I guess there's not much hope here. In any way, it was these tweets that sparked Meg Jayanth's tweets, which in turn were, almost immediately, backed up by a number of people, culminating even in an official FB statement that these accusations were quite credible.

I still find these accusations A) very credible. Do not forget that it was a games journalist, Leigh Alexander, who was among the first to make the "open secret everyone knew about for years" statement. As a journalist, she has to be really, really careful with statements like that. If her claim was proven to be false, it could be her career in tatters. And FB, too, are putting their company's name on the line by making such a clear statement. They could've been a lot foggier in their wording. When I look at the motivations of all these people who made these very clear statements, I can't see them backing up unfounded claims simply out of revenge, the heat of the moment, or whatever. All of them have too much to lose themselves.

I was never sure about part B) and must say that AK's defense about that part sounds credible, too. Otherwise, we would have to imagine him as a James-Bond-villain-like devilish mastermind - rather unlikely.

In the end, it boils (and always boiled) down to this: AK acted "creepy" towards an undefined number of women. Whether he did this "habitually" we do not know. He himself is probably in complete denial about it. (I don't think I need to point out how totally, depressingly common this sort of thing is.)

Is that a problem? Sure.

Should that ruin his career? Probably not. His life? Definitely not.

Is it understandable that the emotions of the accusers boiled over when it seemed that something which they had suppressed for so long was finally being talked about? Absolutely.

Does that mean that online call-outs are generally great and totally unproblematic? Absolutely not.

Do you have a better idea? Tell me about it.


The baseline is that both Lottie's and AK's statements contain a lot of important truths, without actually refuting the accusations A) (even though they probably believe they do). As is not unusual, everyone is speaking the truth on some level. Undoubtedly, this whole thing is incredibly hurtful to everyone involved. Undoubtedly, we - bystanders and third parties - should all back up a step. Unless more, especially more dreadful, things come to light, I consider this file closed.

--
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writerFavours & Renown GuideDestiny Guide
Go play StoryNexus games - while you still can!
+8 link
Televangelist
Televangelist
Posts: 108

9/8/2019
Drake Dynamo wrote:
I know this will be quite the unpopular opinion, but I remain highly skeptical that these accusations only come now, when the eye of the outrage machine is turned towards the gaming community.


The fact that you derisively refer to it as the 'outrage machine' suggests you're not calibrated well on this topic.
+8 link
Diptych
Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3426

8/28/2019
I believe Meg and Olivia and they have my full support, and I'm very grateful Failbetter is standing with them.

--
Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
+8 link
Diptych
Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3426

9/8/2019
This is not a court of law; there is no requirement that all evidence be presented, or that anyone's judgment be heard, and other cases don't come into it. Now be respectful.

--
Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
+8 link
Diptych
Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3426

9/10/2019
Well, I can't speak for the victims, but from what I've read, I imagine some of the practical effect will be less about what consumers do than what developers do. As in "if you're a young woman trying to get started in game development, or working in a studio trying to offer such opportunities, please keep this information in mind when choosing mentors".

--
Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
+7 link
Reshemin
Reshemin
Posts: 226

9/10/2019
I'd probably just wait for the so far non-existant post to be up, before jumping at the content. Or any presumptions thereof. Just sayin'.
+7 link
Waterpls
Waterpls
Posts: 256

9/17/2019
Yes, but this is still better than online shaming, where most do not have access to the facts and proofs and act mostly on emotion, fashion of the season, or some sort of solidarity. What about Blackstone's ratio? It's hard to belive for me that twitter people concerned about false positives as much as they should.
edited by Waterpls on 9/17/2019

--
Long grinds: Heptagoat 1/7; Cider Done; Correspondence 21/21; Paramount 4/4.
+7 link
Waterpls
Waterpls
Posts: 256

9/16/2019
http://weatherfactory.biz/what-actually-happened/

--
Long grinds: Heptagoat 1/7; Cider Done; Correspondence 21/21; Paramount 4/4.
+6 link
MidnightVoyager
MidnightVoyager
Posts: 822

9/8/2019
Drake Dynamo wrote:
Regardless, I think it best if we wait to hear all sides of the story before rendering judgement- a process of judgement which has worked, I might add, since the days of the Ancient Greeks. This whole situation reminds me of the debacle with ProJared- someone who was accused of a lot of scummy, & some illegal, behaviors, and was promptly crucified by the internet at large. Then, after a number of months passed, ProJared returned with evidence to refute the claims made against him, and a number of people had to apologize for rushing to judge him (I will admit, I was one of those people who judged him, and I have learned from the experience).


I understand these are tense and emotional times, but I think we'd all benefit from some forbearance, and consideration of all parties.

Don't be that guy.

--
Midnight Voyager - A blood-cousin to predators. Collector of beasts. Affably mad.
+6 link
Catherine Raymond
Catherine Raymond
Posts: 2372

8/29/2019
From what Olivia and others said on that Twitter thread, I would not call Alexis a "predator". What he has been accused of doing is getting in relationships with co-workers, including those he supervised, behaving badly, dumping women he was in relationships with callously, and threatening "retaliation" if they spoke about his behavior. His conduct as Olivia described it is what we in the U.S. call "sexual harassment"--using one's position in a company to get or keep sexual favors, to hide one's own improper sexual conduct, or to silence an employee who has been used in a sexual manner.

That said, I'm sad to learn of this conduct and I think Failbetter has done what it could to protect itself going forward.
edited by cathyr19355 on 8/29/2019
edited by cathyr19355 on 8/30/2019

--
Cathy Raymond
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355

Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
+6 link
Desirée
Desirée
Posts: 50

9/4/2019
Thank you for posting this here for us who don't use Twitter. It was a heartbreaking read.
+5 link
Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1584

9/16/2019
I honestly suggest that everyone, who felt hurt either way (whether they believe the accusations or believes them to be false) give this a read.

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
+5 link
Vega
Vega
Posts: 144

9/10/2019
phryne wrote:
So, I'm still on the Weather Factory mailing list... and about two hours ago I received an email about a new blog post...



Reshemin wrote:

Also, I'm on that mailing list too - and didn't get any mail.



Phryne's screenshot is from a "subscription" to the Weather Factory blog (which is built on Wordpress): Wordpress sends an automatic email notification to subscribers when a new post appears on the blog. Presumably someone hit PUBLISH prematurely (and still had a password lock on the post) and then retracted, but Wordpress had sent the automated notification already. This is completely separate from the official mailing list from which Lottie/AK send their updates.

~~~

I guess it's been a couple weeks since the allegations appeared, so here are some thoughts.

I believe Meg Jayanth, Olivia Wood et al. There's a pattern of corroborating evidence.

I'm reserving judgment and my future responses to AK for now. AK's original Tweet of siccing lawyers on Meg et al, seemed like a knee-jerk reaction of someone who is nevertheless deeply fearful and flailing to protect himself. Heck, if someone sprang accusations on me like that, my own immediate reaction would be to get defensive and protect myself! His response is understandable, if petulant, so I'm willing to overlook that Twitter behaviour for now. But now that AK's camp has had some radio silence and processing time, his next responses will be very telling. How he is going to respond to Meg et al, and what kinds of outcomes he wants, is going to influence how I will view his future speech and actions, and how much I'll support his future games or recommend his game-development advice. I won't be so lenient then.

I've read Meg's Tweets several times, and the question that keeps springing to mind is: OK, we know about this issue now... to what end? By disclosing these issues, what do Meg, Olivia, et al, want from AK/Weather Factory and from the wider community; what concrete response do they want from us? Stop buying AK's games? Ostracize him? Ban him from gamedev conventions? Support them in (future?) legal action? As tough as it may be, reconciliation with AK if he's repentant?

Ultimately, I'm a third party. I haven't been directly impacted by AK's behaviour as Meg and Olivia were. To be honest, knowing my own personality and character, it'd be easy for me to shrug and turn a blind eye because "It's not directly affecting my life" apart from putting a new spin on my experiences in FL and Cultist Simulator. But that would dishonour the courage and effort taken by Meg et al, to disclose these matters.

On the other hand, they were the agents (by that I mean "character agency") disclosing these matters. To put it bluntly, they opened the bottle, and now there's an aroma in the air now that wasn't here previously (or if it was, it was very stifled), and it's affecting everyone. So what are we going to do about the smell now? The people who opened the bottle clearly know there will be consequences to releasing this aroma on the rest of us; a disclosure made to the collective demands a response from the same collective. So what kind of outcomes do they want from us? I'm talking about practical outcomes, not mere attitudes. AK's responses to the allegations will influence how I treat Weather Factory specifically, but beyond this, something has to be done to help both current and future victims and stop this kind of systemic problem. For example, if Meg et al, want me to boycott Weather Factory games as a way of addressing systemic exploitation in the gamedev world, I will take that seriously into account in my future consumption of video games.

So far, I haven't seen an indication of what kinds of resolution Meg et al, want, and this also affects my response to the situation. If the victims don't specify a concrete outcome for their cause, it's easy for me to shrug, pay lip service to the tragedy, and move on with my life remaining unchanged. I'd rather not shrug.





--
edited by Vega on 9/11/2019

--
The Jaunty Mystic, Taranlei, roams the streets of London, interviewing fellow citizens. Member of the Sanguine Ribbon Society and the Temple Club (happy to send invites). Accepting all Acquaintances, lethal duels, social interactions, and opportunities for casual roleplay.

The Shifty Spectre has departed on the final voyage. "I have gone down, down, my love..."
+5 link
Catherine Raymond
Catherine Raymond
Posts: 2372

9/16/2019
Diptych wrote:
I've noticed in the past that, when criticised, Alexis will portray himself as a lovable duffer who could never knowingly do wrong, while exaggerating the criticisms until they're made ridiculous and churlish, and he seems beneficent for even hearing them out.


But on the other hand, Alexis has not been accused by anyone of rape. The allegations of his misbehavior are of an entirely different kind. And Lottie makes a point toward the end of her post that I think needs to be discussed, not just here, but in general by anyone who wants "me too" to make lasting and useful changes in our culture:

"Does it want abusive men to just disappear? If so, where do they go once they’re outed? It doesn’t feel terribly feminist to say we’re cool with abusive people leaving games and going to work in other industries, preying on the women there. So does call-out culture want men to never work again? In which case, are we cool with that economic shock affecting their spouses and children? Do we want them to starve? Do we want them to live on the street? Do we want them to actually die? For all the noise it makes at the start, call-out culture is strangely silent at the end."

--
Cathy Raymond
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355

Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
+5 link
Drake Dynamo
Drake Dynamo
Posts: 500

9/16/2019
I appreciate hearing from both Alexis and Lottie, and I think the most important point either of them make is this: if Alexis really was an abuser, why did no one ever reach out to Lottie?
In her words:
"But the allegations leveled at Alexis are from 2015, when he was CEO of Failbetter Games. I was the most junior woman at the studio then, one year into games and working side by side with the people who’ve recently come out against him. When I was just starting to date him, that information would have been useful. When I moved in with him, that information would have been useful. When I left Failbetter to co-found a studio with him, that information would have been useful. In this instance, I have been the one woman in the direct firing line of a so-called abuser for nearly five years. I have never heard a single thing about him, but apparently, hundreds of other people have. If whisper networks are so ineffective that they can’t warn the one person most likely to be harmed, they aren’t a viable system of protection."

--
Oh no. Another post from that goon who goes on about statistics.

Drake Dynamo -Correspondent, Hesperidean Cider Drinker , Matchmaker, and Paramount Presence
The Antioch - The Coffee God (I do not check this account often)
Mr. Mauvais - A ghostly skullduggerous fellow, chopped up for the time being (Only active during seasonal events)

Guide to becoming a Poet-Laureate
If you need to discuss RP matters, I can typically be found on the IRC in #Argo.
+4 link
Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1584

9/17/2019
Thank you, Failbetter, for doing that. It must be hard.

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
+4 link
Quidam
Quidam
Posts: 14

8/29/2019
I am glad that these numerous accounts of sexual harassment are taken seriously. It is a good thing that some women, though probably not all unfortunately, now feel safe enough to report his behavior (I am not saying that any victim of harassment should report, but rather that those who want to report now feel that they can do it).

I am saying all this because I recently bought Sunless Sea (which I think he said was 1/3 written by him) and Cultist Simulator (which was almost entirely written by him, the exceptions being the multiples romance endings) and was enjoying them both. Not only that, but I was listening to multiple podcasts, streams and interviews with him and I was interest in his insight as recently as yesterday. I know that you can enjoy the good bit and separate it from the bad bit, that the author is dead anyway, and it would not be the first time I read a text and enjoy art from an author that is a "doofus" (to avoid stronger words), but if writing is supposed to reflect in some way the ideas of the writer, then are there subtle ways in which harmful idea are being communicated through his work? If so, I would hate to say to those that are harmed by the writing "yeah, but I liked those bits, so it doesn't matter what you say." That would be really awful, and hurtful. I know that this isn't what these women are talking about, but I have been told that these small things can be toxic.

Anyway, this whole post is very, very egoistic and I have no idea what am talking about. The important thing (I guess) is that I support those who have been hurt by Alexis Kennedy.

P.S.: As usual, you can correct my grammar if you want to. English is not my first language and I am happy to learn more.

--
Just another face in the crowd
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Quidam
+4 link
Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1584

8/29/2019
This is shocking. I was about to kick-start his upcoming library game though I didn't even like CS. Glad Failbetter is no longer involved with him - and I really hope Sunless Skies won't be hurt.
edited by Jolanda Swan on 8/29/2019

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
+4 link
Televangelist
Televangelist
Posts: 108

8/28/2019
Olivia Wood from Failbetter giving her account of Alexis' wrongdoing, with additional Failbetter people backing her up in the thread: https://twitter.com/babelfishwars/status/1166788762392829953
+4 link
Televangelist
Televangelist
Posts: 108

8/28/2019
As for the accused, Alexis' response to being accused of threatening women with retaliation to win their silence has been to, well, threaten women with retaliation: https://twitter.com/alexiskennedy/status/1166762265892311042
+4 link
Televangelist
Televangelist
Posts: 108

8/28/2019
Meg Jayanth is a writer of multiple Sunless Sea islands and winner of a gajillion words for her work elsewhere, for those who haven't heard of her. Leigh Alexander is a gaming journalist, games writer, and general advocate for women in gaming spaces.
+3 link
Lord Alexander Alderman
Lord Alexander Alderman
Posts: 62

8/29/2019
I agree with a lot of this, but to state that because Alexis authored a lot of the things in the FL universe, means we should be suspicious of all his works, some, like H.P. Lovecraft, can be glaringly obvious in hindsight. But we shouldn't assume that, despite Alexis' undeniably high quality artistic writing, that he fits this definition of what writing is supposed to be, with his works relating to women being quite progressive despite what we now know his attitudes are. If we do see any of his works supporting his idea of what ''romance'' should be in the real world, then by all means try remove that influence. But we shouldn't get rid of the works that don't, just because they now have an air of suspicion. We should look carefully at parts that could be interpreted as being supportive of those behaviors when we see them, and make a verdict about what it really means, or decide if a somewhat more ambiguous case leans too far towards this bent of his. As I stated about deodands. (A rather useful word to know, when many people are discomforted by things when they are casually related to a negative event.)
edited by Lord Alexander Alderman on 8/29/2019
+3 link
Lord Alexander Alderman
Lord Alexander Alderman
Posts: 62

8/29/2019
Suspicion is rising...

(too soon?)
edited by Lord Alexander Alderman on 8/29/2019
+3 link
The Elfin Cannibal
The Elfin Cannibal
Posts: 190

8/31/2019
May a reckoning not be postponed indefinitely.

--
DO you recall how the Hunger began?
I'm sorry, my darling, I don't think I can!
OUT past the High Wilderness and beyond
I fear I've gone Seeking, for of Him I'm fond.
--The Elfin Cannibal

Seven scars, seven chains, a soul too stained for Hell, and seven sainted candles burning at the well.

Gone to Grieve on the 17th day of the 7th month, 1897.
+3 link
Skinnyman
Skinnyman
Posts: 1942

9/8/2019
Many other are out of the loop, so I'll reference the Reddit discussion here for more information, debates, questions and opinions.

--
ESs items and quality requirements sheet. Please check if there are errors or if something is missing
Achievement list if you're feeling bored!
I am accepting Plant battles, Neath's Mysteries card, Starveling Cats and boxed cats.
No suppers, no second chances gain and no need to cure my menaces!
+3 link
Drake Dynamo
Drake Dynamo
Posts: 500

9/9/2019
Lottie was talking on the Cultist Sim discord and mentioned that they have some posts coming in the upcoming future explaining the matter, and something accidentally got published ahead of time.

--
Oh no. Another post from that goon who goes on about statistics.

Drake Dynamo -Correspondent, Hesperidean Cider Drinker , Matchmaker, and Paramount Presence
The Antioch - The Coffee God (I do not check this account often)
Mr. Mauvais - A ghostly skullduggerous fellow, chopped up for the time being (Only active during seasonal events)

Guide to becoming a Poet-Laureate
If you need to discuss RP matters, I can typically be found on the IRC in #Argo.
+3 link
Diptych
Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3426

9/17/2019
That's not "the general public" acting as a single unit - that's several individual people becoming aware of information and choosing to act on that information according to their own interests and inclinations. I'm not saying it's a perfect system, but that's more or less how business has operated since time immemorial.

What's the alternative? Either we punish victims for speaking out even more than we already do (and the UK has some of the most punitive libel laws in the world), which would give abusers even greater license to abuse, or we forbid businesses from choosing who they want to work with and consumers from choosing what they want to purchase, which sounds, well, costly to enforce, at the very least.
edited by Diptych on 9/17/2019

--
Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
+3 link
Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1584

9/26/2019
Well that was shocking, but needed.

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
+3 link
Catherine Raymond
Catherine Raymond
Posts: 2372

9/26/2019
Alexis's self-serving statements to one side, he seems to have real psychological problems with women and relationships. I think he needs professional psychological help, and he's not going to get any, at the rate he's going.

--
Cathy Raymond
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355

Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
+3 link
Emain Ablach
Emain Ablach
Posts: 341

9/16/2019
I find Lottie's post very interesting.

--
Went NORTH. Got salted. Never came back. We won't remember him.

http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Emain%20Ablach
+3 link
Diptych
Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3426

9/16/2019
Personally, I found Lottie's post rather offensive - including the suggestion that Alec Holowka's victims bore moral responsibility for his death, particularly after it was revealed that he had used the threat of suicide to further isolate and traumatise them.


Catherine Raymond wrote:
Do we want them to starve? Do we want them to live on the street? Do we want them to actually die? For all the noise it makes at the start, call-out culture is strangely silent at the end."



There is middle ground between being an acclaimed indie CEO and dying in poverty. For instance, he could continue to work, but not in a position in which he can use his power and status to abuse others.

--
Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
+3 link
Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1584

9/17/2019
Just an aside: I doubt that not warning someone else should be held against you, or should be used to belittle your claim. People who have been abused do not rush to disclose it, they even rationalize it away sometimes. And yes, they often feel guilt about that - so I didn't like the insinuation that the claimants were either liars or bad victims for not warning another.

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
+3 link
Drake Dynamo
Drake Dynamo
Posts: 500

9/10/2019
Lord Alexander Alderman wrote:
The thought that post could tie back into FL somehow is honestly more irritating than the real BS content of the post, because if he DID try to insinuate that he's still tied to FB, then that might be an attempt to shut them down with more people leaving ship to try and ''punish'' them for giving him away, even after losing his ties, and deny FB the profits they deserve for maintaining his progressive works without his real world noxious influence harassing the team.

Based on the post's title it was clearly in direct relation to these ongoing matters. Even if you are of the mindset that Alexis is 100% guilty, I think this sort of thinking is the most bad faith interpretation possible. Even if Alexis wanted to imply he was still involved to hurt the company (and that thought alone would be a stretch), going the route of tying it into Ambition: Enigma would be one of the worst ways to do that, considering only a minority of players- and those are probably the ones most likely to stay with Failbetter- are aware it even exists.
edited by Drake Dynamo on 9/10/2019

--
Oh no. Another post from that goon who goes on about statistics.

Drake Dynamo -Correspondent, Hesperidean Cider Drinker , Matchmaker, and Paramount Presence
The Antioch - The Coffee God (I do not check this account often)
Mr. Mauvais - A ghostly skullduggerous fellow, chopped up for the time being (Only active during seasonal events)

Guide to becoming a Poet-Laureate
If you need to discuss RP matters, I can typically be found on the IRC in #Argo.
+2 link
Diptych
Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3426

9/16/2019
I've noticed in the past that, when criticised, Alexis will portray himself as a lovable duffer who could never knowingly do wrong, while exaggerating the criticisms until they're made ridiculous and churlish, and he seems beneficent for even hearing them out.

--
Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
+2 link
Emain Ablach
Emain Ablach
Posts: 341

9/26/2019
Shocking indeed, but very informative, thank you.

Phryne, you might want to edit again your last sentence. You know it's not the place for that, nor how we behave on this forum. :/

--
Went NORTH. Got salted. Never came back. We won't remember him.

http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Emain%20Ablach
+2 link
Catherine Raymond
Catherine Raymond
Posts: 2372

9/17/2019
Diptych wrote:


There is middle ground between being an acclaimed indie CEO and dying in poverty. For instance, he could continue to work, but not in a position in which he can use his power and status to abuse others.


Agreed. It's the middle ground that we all, as a civil society, need to find. I'm glad to see that need being acknowledged in this thread.

--
Cathy Raymond
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355

Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
+2 link
Diptych
Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3426

9/17/2019
Court is only an option if the misdeeds involved are specifically criminal as well as unprofessional and unethical, which isn't always the case. An internal investigation relies on the perpetrator and their victim/s all working within the same company, and B: the company putting the needs of the victim/s and the public good ahead of their own commercial interests. After all, whatever their findings, it's often the most economical option to keep the facts secret.

--
Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
+2 link
Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1584

9/17/2019
By the way, it's ridiculous to ask people not to come forward with accusations, to keep silent unless there is some tangible proof. I felt stunned by AK's post, so I am not saying this lightly: there is no easy solution to this. Telling men and women who have been abused/harassed or worse that they need to have -what, photohraphic evidence? At least three witnesses? A note that says "I did the deed? is essentially asking us to keep silent, when speaking out is often the only recourse we have. I understand worrying about the possibility of innocents being wrongly accused, but by focusing only on these ocassions, we are ignoring the innumerable cases where people are abused and have no way to get a tiny bit of justice, or warn others.

So no, call-out culture is not a solution. It is simply the only solution that might, maybe, perhaps has a chance to work. And this is awful, and it tears us apart, making the discussion a shouting match. We know. But neither "believe everything" nor "believe nobody unless they have video and there is three of them" is a solution.


So I am going to ask this: for those who oppose call-outs, do you care equally for the innocents who get besmirched and the millions who get abused and never get any justice? And if yes, what is a better idea? This is what we need to ask.
edited by Jolanda Swan on 9/17/2019

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
+2 link
Drake Dynamo
Drake Dynamo
Posts: 500

9/17/2019
I am not a fan of the mindset that is propagated by callout culture. When people are abandoning a creator en masse because of claims on social media- ones unsubstantiated by any sort of proof, beyond "oh yes, I heard these things too"- that is a major problem. The public pillorying of Alexis on little-more than hearsay is abominable, and you Diptych continue to make up excuses for this mob.

"Why was no evidence provided" "no one has any responsibility to share them with you" Really? When someone makes a public accusation about a person, they do have a responsibility. I fancy myself someone who waits for concrete evidence before I believe a serious claim, clearly you are not that sort of person, Diptych.


"Why didn't they take other avenues to deal with these matters" "Court was not an option, and neither was an internal investigation" Ah, so clearly firing off a series of tweets and inciting an angry mob is the best way to handle this! Let us not forget that this wave of accusations in the game industry was started by Zoe Quinn, a notorious liar and something of a huckster (a kickstarter project that was never completed, and no refunds, comes to mind). It's no wonder these grievances against Alexis were aired in such a public way- the momentum of the games journalism industry was behind it, and there's no better way to win online brownie points than from fellow concerned "listen-and-believers."

And finally, Lottie's post was offensive? Was she wrong when she said public humiliation drives people suicide? Whether you like it or not, Alec Holowka's accusers, in handling the situation the way they did, do bear a degree of moral responsibility for what happened to him. Instead of going to the police, or a PI, or some sort of private arbitrator, or even a law suit, they chose the route which would cause the most damage in the shortest amount of time. Nothing destroys people's lives like getting twitter upset with you.

This sort of discourse, bringing people down in the public sphere so they can't work/lose their business & employees, is harmful to society. No one is ever safe, all it takes is one person to start a rumor, and then some time later 'come forward' with an accusation, and your life is ruined. Why anyone would ever condone that sort of behavior, single-mindedly believing everything you hear and then attacking someone because of it, it is beyond me.

--
Oh no. Another post from that goon who goes on about statistics.

Drake Dynamo -Correspondent, Hesperidean Cider Drinker , Matchmaker, and Paramount Presence
The Antioch - The Coffee God (I do not check this account often)
Mr. Mauvais - A ghostly skullduggerous fellow, chopped up for the time being (Only active during seasonal events)

Guide to becoming a Poet-Laureate
If you need to discuss RP matters, I can typically be found on the IRC in #Argo.
+2 link
phryne
phryne
Posts: 1255

9/8/2019
Drake Dynamo wrote:
I know this will be quite the unpopular opinion...
... and absolutely nobody is surprised about it being you voicing that opinion. xD

--
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writerFavours & Renown GuideDestiny Guide
Go play StoryNexus games - while you still can!
+2 link
Tystefy
Tystefy
Posts: 439

9/6/2019
When I first learned of this, I audibly whispered "Oh no."

--
Will sometimes return to post absurdity.
+2 link
Lord Alexander Alderman
Lord Alexander Alderman
Posts: 62

9/6/2019
Look at what you've done, Alexis. You've perturbed this innocent puppy! Your reckoning will most certainly not be postponed indefinitely.
+1 link
Drake Dynamo
Drake Dynamo
Posts: 500

9/8/2019
Regardless, I think it best if we wait to hear all sides of the story before rendering judgement- a process of judgement which has worked, I might add, since the days of the Ancient Greeks. This whole situation reminds me of the debacle with ProJared- someone who was accused of a lot of scummy, & some illegal, behaviors, and was promptly crucified by the internet at large. Then, after a number of months passed, ProJared returned with evidence to refute the claims made against him, and a number of people had to apologize for rushing to judge him (I will admit, I was one of those people who judged him, and I have learned from the experience).


I understand these are tense and emotional times, but I think we'd all benefit from some forbearance, and consideration of all parties.

--
Oh no. Another post from that goon who goes on about statistics.

Drake Dynamo -Correspondent, Hesperidean Cider Drinker , Matchmaker, and Paramount Presence
The Antioch - The Coffee God (I do not check this account often)
Mr. Mauvais - A ghostly skullduggerous fellow, chopped up for the time being (Only active during seasonal events)

Guide to becoming a Poet-Laureate
If you need to discuss RP matters, I can typically be found on the IRC in #Argo.
+1 link
phryne
phryne
Posts: 1255

9/9/2019
So somebody hit a button too soon. It happens.

The funny thing about it is that my (tired) brain insisted this might be some kind of Ambition:Enigma-like shenanigans and that if I could just find the clue hidden somewhere in that email I'd be able to read the post... xD

--
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writerFavours & Renown GuideDestiny Guide
Go play StoryNexus games - while you still can!
+1 link
Reshemin
Reshemin
Posts: 226

9/9/2019
phryne wrote:
The funny thing about it is that my (tired) brain insisted this might be some kind of Ambition:Enigma-like shenanigans and that if I could just find the clue hidden somewhere in that email I'd be able to read the post... xD
You're not alone - that idea also came to me. Briefly. Because I immediately thought 'Nah, that's just too meta even for them, regarding the context and such...'
But for a moment I was inclined to not dismiss the possibility. smile
+1 link
phryne
phryne
Posts: 1255

9/8/2019
He is that guy. Can't help it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

--
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writerFavours & Renown GuideDestiny Guide
Go play StoryNexus games - while you still can!
+1 link
phryne
phryne
Posts: 1255

9/9/2019
So, I'm still on the Weather Factory mailing list... and about two hours ago I received an email about a new blog post... with the remark "This post is password protected. You must visit the website and enter the password to continue reading."

So I clicked the link.

And so, um... I'm not quite sure what they're trying to tell us here?

FWIW, here's a screenshot of the email I received.


Something is wrong here.
edited by phryne on 9/9/2019

--
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writerFavours & Renown GuideDestiny Guide
Go play StoryNexus games - while you still can!
+1 link
Reshemin
Reshemin
Posts: 226

9/9/2019
Well I'm totally not sure what this is about - because that link 404's for me...
Also, I'm on that mailing list too - and didn't get any mail.
?

Edit:
Something is wrong here.
I assume it's gone on your end also then?
edited by Reshemin on 9/9/2019
+1 link
Reshemin
Reshemin
Posts: 226

9/9/2019
First and simplest explanation coming to my mind: someone got emotional, vented/ranted/fill-in-the-blank'd about the situation and then, more-or-less shortly afterwards, thought better of it (or the wording, or... whatever). No biggie, been there, done that. Although not exactly under 'professional' circumstances (unless drunk. Luckily I got that message edited the next, sober morning before the recipient had a chance to read it. Phew.)
+1 link
rahv7
rahv7
Posts: 284

8/30/2019
FWIW, Caoláin (aka Spacemarine9) has written a few words, too:

https://twitter.com/murinemach/status/1166875180184080384

This article also mentioned


Weather Factory's head of marketing and PR Claire Sharkey has announced that she has left the company, following several abuse accusations towards the studio's co-founder Alexis Kennedy.



(The article has been edited now and I can't find that part anymore, so take it with a grain of salt.)
edited by rahv7 on 8/30/2019

--
It's possible people have forgotten that there is an actual devil in the actual Lord Mayor's office. A devil who is promising to look after people's souls. What is wrong with everybody?

https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/rahv7
+1 link
D
D
Posts: 31

8/28/2019
MidnightVoyager wrote:
https://twitter.com/failbettergames/status/1166824225778352129

See the thread. Information included: "We no longer have any ties with him personally, creatively or financially."
edited by MidnightVoyager on 8/28/2019



Good news.

--
The Androgyne Libertine - Explore Every Present
- Shattering Force, Crooked Cross. Accepts patronage requests and salon invitations.
The Liminal Witch - Fight for the Future
- Shattering Force. Accepts patronage requests.
The Inexorable Scrivener - Read What Was, Write What Is, Search For What Is Yet To Be
- Correspondent, Extraordinary Mind. Accepts patronage requests and orphanage invitations.
The Boneless Detective - Sought the Name.
+1 link
phryne
phryne
Posts: 1255

8/28/2019
And suddenly some goings-on in Failbetter's past appear in a different light.

Sorry, don't know what to say. Everything sucks.

--
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writerFavours & Renown GuideDestiny Guide
Go play StoryNexus games - while you still can!
+1 link
Calliope
Calliope
Posts: 99

8/28/2019
This hurts a whole lot. upset

--
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Calliope%20Rannis
+1 link
Calliope
Calliope
Posts: 99

8/28/2019
Right after the tweets accusing talked about his tendency to threaten retaliation too...

--
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Calliope%20Rannis
+1 link
JaneAnkhVeos
JaneAnkhVeos
Posts: 82

8/28/2019
People are people upset

--
|| black ravens of dreams || white ravens of memories ||
+1 link
Televangelist
Televangelist
Posts: 108

8/28/2019
Amalgamate wrote:
Well, this sucks. Does he still make money off of fallen London?



Don't think so.
+1 link
Waterpls
Waterpls
Posts: 256

9/17/2019
>>>What's the alternative?

Of course, i am not a specialist, but i see two ways. Court and / or private investigation within the company. Both are practiced for a long time with various rate of success.

>>>that's several individual people becoming aware of information and choosing to act on that information according to their own interests and inclinations

Good point. If so, its totally compatible with two proposed ways.

Social networks should not be used in such cases at all, or at least until court / investigators have final decision.

--
Long grinds: Heptagoat 1/7; Cider Done; Correspondence 21/21; Paramount 4/4.
+1 link
Waterpls
Waterpls
Posts: 256

9/17/2019
Sorry for my english.
I am mostly worried that general public do not care about proofs. At all. There are many accusations. And zero proofs. And it not like Victorian Era, today some of our actions leave digital trail, every conversation can be easily recorded with minimal preparations from "victim's" side.
It seems that some people think that numbers can decide what is true. Yes, many people added their voice. Yes, FBG's statement is quite clear. But what proofs they have revealed? It's not the democratic procedure, where majority should decide what is right, we are talking about facts and i dont see solid evidence from accusors. And how can you clear your name? You cant disproof what is not proven. And should not (presumption of innocence)

--
Long grinds: Heptagoat 1/7; Cider Done; Correspondence 21/21; Paramount 4/4.
+1 link




Powered by Jitbit Forum 8.0.2.0 © 2006-2013 Jitbit Software