Cadwyn Knivlove
Posts: 37
7/31/2019
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So, we know the crimes committed by the Masters, and due to recent news, we know why there seemed to be one extra. Let's go over which belong to which.
Mr Stones, for obvious reasons: hoarding
light-bringing
impersonation, and the delivery of false testimony
Mr iron, for obvious reasons: perpetration of the crimes of knife and of candle
idleness, and the dwelling-on of dreams
runtery, aberration
pursuit of a Treachery
Mr Wines, for the Beggar's Crown, the Scepter of Mr Wines, and what we learned in Cricket, Anyone: failure and defeat, a fall from king to beggar
glass-whispering. And worse: charity
Mr Pages, for obvious reasons: truth-strangling
Mr Veils, for his role in Ambition: Bag a Legend: violation of the Order of Days, which determines the hour of the hunt, the feast, the council, the bargain, and the slaughter
So, here's the Curators who's crimes aren't absolutely set in stone-
Mr Mirrors - Most likely pursuit of a Treachery.
Mr Cups - Most likely glass-whispering. And worse: charity.
Mr Fires - Most likely light-bringing.
Mr Hearts/Mr Apples - Most likely impersonation, and the delivering of false testimony.
Mr Candles/Mr Eaten - Most likely runtery, aberration.
Mr Spices - Most likely idleness, and the dwelling-on of dreams.
My own speculation-
[spoiler]
light-bringing: Mr candles, Mr Fires. Both have a general "light" theme, though in different ways. I've been told that there's mention of light-bringing in SMEN.
impersonation, and the delivery of false testimony: Mr Hearts/Apples, Mr Cups. Mr Cups began impersonating Mr Mirrors out of, seemingly, necessity, but this may be a hint that it's something Mr Cups is used to doing. Mr Hearts/Apples has several alter-egos, including a Wings-of-Thunder-Bat. EDIT: Azothi has given some awesome elaboration on why this is
idleness, and the dwelling-on of dreams: Mr Spices, Mr Mirrors, Mr Candles. I've been told that Mr Candles' dominion over dreams is what kept that last imprint of him "alive", but Mr Mirrors seems to have a deeper connection to dreams, it's Noman saying it wants to experience them, not control them. Mr Spices desires control of dreams, but doesn't seem very idle. EDIT: I stand corrected, Azothi has pointed out that Mr Spices is quite idle.
runtery, aberration: Probably Mr Candles, for many things mentioned in SMEN.
pursuit of a Treachery: This one stumps me a little. Depending on what Treachery means, I could see Mr Spices having this one, especially if it was friends with Mr Wines back when it was still the Merchant King. Lowerment by association? That has some interesting implications. EDIT: Azothi has made a wonderful point that this may be for Mr Mirrors, considering there is a Treachery of Glass. Punishment for commingling with what's behind the mirrors, maybe?
glass-whispering. And worse: charity: Mr Cups, Mr Mirrors. As of The Shallows, we know that some time after it killed the player's Loved One in Ambition: Nemesis, Mr Mirrors was lured into its dreams by a revolutionary leader and subsequently "destroyed". However, it may not have actually been killed, as we don't have another Mr Eaten situation, so there's a chance Mr Mirrors is just AWOL in Parabola. Since then, Mr Cups has begun impersonating it, and whether or not the other Masters are aware is unknown. This gives both some evidence for glass-whispering, but it seems more likely to be Mr Cups because of it's pattern of giving and needing charity.
[/spoiler]
edited by cadwynknivlove on 7/31/2019
edited by cadwynknivlove on 7/31/2019
edited by cadwynknivlove on 7/31/2019
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Azothi
Posts: 586
7/31/2019
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Among those, there are three that I think are worth delving deeper into (I concur with the other eight and your reasoning behind them):
- impersonation, and the delivery of false testimony
- idleness, and the dwelling-on of dreams
- pursuit of a Treachery
And this leaves three Masters unassigned: Mirrors, Spices, and Hearts/Apples.
[spoiler]How I'd assign them is as follows:
"idleness and the dwelling-on of dreams": Mr Spices. It runs the honey-dens (based on Victorian opium dens), where people laze (idleness) while consuming prisoner's honey and dwelling on dreams; its home comfort is "a bed made solely for dreaming" (idleness and dreams). It knows Jack-of-Smiles was a failed experiment to manufacture love stories, but it doesn't care enough to terminate it. This is not a definitive case on its own, but it's compelling nonetheless.
"pursuit of a Treachery": Mr Mirrors. For the past two years, I've held to the interpretation that Cups and Mirrors were one from the beginning ("glass-whispering. And worse: charity"), which would leave this as either Hearts/Apples (if the Red Science is a Treachery) or the Bazaar (for commingling with a Judgement). Now that The Shallows has confirmed that Mirrors and Cups are separate beings, I now believe that this is referring to the Treachery of Glass. To speculate, this is likely connected to Parabola; this could connect to Wines, Spices, or Mirrors (or even Cups now), the Masters with a Parabolic connection. Wines is clearly the fallen king, and I'd rule out Spices because its trade in Parabola is in honey (a later invention by the devils after their exodus into Parabola) rather than glass.
"impersonation, and the delivery of false testimony": Mr Hearts/Mr Apples. For this, there are many layers to peel back in decoding the meaning of this sin. On the surface, we can say that Hearts and Apples are two separate identities assumed by the one individual. There are a few details about the Masters that make this warrant a deeper look, though, and it's why I've saved it for last.
In the Conversation on the Road Destinies, between the five possible Destinies, nine Masters are referenced. Only Fires, Candles, and Mirrors are not. Apples is mentioned precisely once, when you choose to prevaricate (the Memory), with the line, "Apples seems a little melancholy." Note that this is right after Hearts directly asks you, "Why, I have grown very fond even of our new associate here. [...] And you, my friend? Have you grown fond of us?" Melancholy is not an unusual reaction afterwards. Taking into account that there are only eleven pilgrims listed with sins, it seems like Hearts and Apples are the same Curator, but that it has the identity of two.
However, in Seeking, it's stated that there were twelve who took the Courier's bargain, and Candles is referred to as King Twelve. This count only works if there were an additional Master beyond the eleven who descended with the Bazaar. We've not met any candidates for that: Mr Chimes is played by other Masters, while Mr Sacks are Nomen. This number seems to be of importance to the Masters; consider their reaction if you choose to depart before the Bazaar finishes its mission: “The promise!” cries one. And: “Do not abandon us! We are too few!” That one might be Spices. What this implies is that the number of Masters is somehow significant; if I had to speculate, it's entirely possible that the promised payment rendered to the Masters is dependent on there being the same number in the end as the beginning (Spices says earlier, "It will keep its promise at last. For the rest, I care not.") What this indicates is that the Hearts/Apples identity is impersonation on a potentially cosmic level.[/spoiler]
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Azoth I, the Emissary of Cardinals - A Paramount Presence (not currently accepting new Proteges)
Away to where the Chain cannot bind us.
 Hesperidean.
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Cadwyn Knivlove
Posts: 37
7/31/2019
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Azothi wrote:
Among those, there are three that I think are worth delving deeper into (I concur with the other eight and your reasoning behind them):
You make some wonderful, wonderful points. I definitely retract my earlier statement of Mr Spices not seeming too idle, and the Treachery of Glass is a great catch!
[spoiler]Thank you so much for such a good elaboration, I completely agree that Mr Hearts/Mr Apples's impersonation goes a little deeper than it may seem. I actually think we might learn a little more about this in the following months, considering that a Curator Officer who is very likely Mr Hearts/Mr Apples (the Chiropterous Hoarder- rumored to be "a Master of Old London", and "a peddler of immortality", as well as... wearing a red cloak, I guess?) is being added to Sunless Skies in September.[/spoiler]
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MidnightVoyager
Posts: 858
7/31/2019
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You can only use one spoiler tag per post or it breaks, I'm afraid
Aha, I think you fixed it. But that's why it was breaking, FYI!
edited by MidnightVoyager on 7/31/2019
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Midnight Voyager - A blood-cousin to predators. Collector of beasts. Affably mad.
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