millea
Posts: 45
7/29/2019
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I'm writing this post to express my concern about the decreasing quality (and quantity) of free content in FL. The recent ESes have been great - no complaints here - but only makes it more noticeable when the free content suffers as badly as it has lately.
This election offered even less content than the one before: again, no social actions, but also less flash lay and reputation content. The content we did get was ripe with bugs and typos - something very disheartening to see when new free content is already so rare. Last time we got anything was March 7 with a new Heist for the Envoy’s Townhouse - compare this to the steady stream of far more grandiose content the paying players get.
The two most recent Hallowmases didn't offer any new companion art, a feature that was something people absolutely looked forward to - even the small changes on the portraits were something fun and exciting. Additionally, the changing of the mechanic for gaining confessions - pushing more focus on paid content instead of using the (admittedly unpopular) notability grind method.
I know that ES content is the priority here, as the real money-maker of the site - but the foundation of free content has to be good for people to want to invest their money.
With Skies and Seas, you pay an upfront cost and get a complete game. New content might be added via an expansion or free updates, but you get a complete experience and multiple stories. FL already suffers from the opposite - an incomplete free story with the majority of new content that is potentially good requiring $7 membership and not a lot of positive free updates outside of that - essentially, subscribers are buying a new copy of Sunless Skies every three months for three additional stories to a base game whose plot they can’t finish.
There's a lot of hooks for free content possible - from all the things currently marked as Impossible, to things like new social actions, cases for the Honey-Addled Detective who's a big hit amongst early-game players, maybe even more Black Ribbon contestants. The ability to change our Toasted To, and which school of writing we identify with was also something that would be much appreciated. The forums have a more in-depth list of unfinished content that can be read at http://community.failbettergames.com/topic19876-summary-of-loose-ends-and-unresolved-stories.aspx.
Another idea would be, perhaps, to make some of the smaller - or older, or less wildly popular - ES free to play. One free ES a year would already be something nice for the free players, and paid customers will still be getting a whole lot of dedicated content.
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 Elvira Blake, the Pariah's Doctor. ༺⚜️༻ Anne Meredith, the Disfigured Captain. 
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phryne
Posts: 1351
7/29/2019
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I agree with some of the issues you brought up, mainly: typos.
Typos in new FL content have become so vastly prevalent that I now notice when a piece of content I play for the first time hasn't got any typos, especially concerning punctuation marks. It sometimes gets so bad that the meaning of a sentence becomes distorted and I'm not sure what I've just read. This concerns most content released in more or less the past 12 months, free and paid-for.
I do not agree with your statement that we don't get enough free content, though I recognize that everyone will have a different idea of how much exactly is "enough". But last year's Hallowmas, for example, was especially enjoyable in this regard. We also got the new expeditions, a new heist, and from what Shoshana said today, more Arbor content is on its way. I've no complaints here.
I do agree that new art for each new companion and location would be great, but here we come to something I must mention: Failbetter Games are, at this moment in time, an extremely small team. I'm thankful they managed to continue churning out any new stuff for FL at all while working on Sunless Skies. I can't speak to how much work still goes into Skies at this point - I haven't even played that game yet - but I hold some hope that both the writers and the visual artist(s) will have a bit more time for FL in the near future.
Your idea of releasing an old Exceptional Story for free once a year sounds good. Alternatively, they could put a discount on them. After all, we now have some that are four years old. Maybe you should post this in the Feedback thread, too, it's not certain that this thread will reach FB's attention.
TL,DR: less new free content than we got in the past 12 months would probably not be good, but I can't bring myself to ask for more. What I would really ask for is better proof-reading and editing of new content before release. (And I would like to send a hearty thank-you to all players who regularly send in emails with the typos they've found - I confess I hardly ever bother. Still, it shouldn't be the playerbase having to do the proof-reading  )
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Accounts: Bag a Legend • Light Fingers • Heart's Desire • Nemesis • no ambition
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writer ― Favours & Renown Guide
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Siankan
Posts: 1048
8/3/2019
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Calliope wrote:
Well that's a bit rude isn't it?
Don't mean to correct your grammar, friend, but the words "a bit" seem to have wandered in from another sentence.
Mr. Candles, we need to talk. There are rules in this community, like any other, the most famous of which is "never post spammy advertisements from Asia," but only slightly less well-known is this: we do not disrespect one another. We can disagree, we can even argue, but we never take things to the point of arrogance or personal attack. It is this rule, above all, which keeps the forum a quiet and welcoming corner of the internet.
I am mentioning this not only because your dismissal of rahv's carefully though-out post is a clear violation of that rule, but because you've made a pattern of it. As of this morning, your net reputation on the forum is -148. Please understand that this is not Reddit; people around here use that thumbs-down button only rarely, and almost always it's because the poster has failed to show common courtesy.
Really, it comes down to your own reputation (and I don't mean the numbers). How do you want people here to see you? How do you want them to take your words? Everything we say colors who we are and how people perceive us. A post like this last one says either, "I was never trained in common civility" or "I like to hear myself talk." Neither option makes people take you seriously. Is that really the reputation you want? I don't think it is.
We want you to be part of this community; we want to hear your thoughts, and engage with them. However, we don't want that so badly that we're going to put up with continual discourtesy. Enough complaints about aggressive, uncivil behavior will get you banned from the forum, eventually. We don't want that to happen any more than you, but if it's to be avoided, then the tone of your posting is going to have to change.
The ball's in your court.
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Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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PSGarak
Posts: 834
7/31/2019
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Personally, right now, all I want from FBG is some communication about their plans for Fallen London. Last year with the Reworks project it was very exciting. The content was a big part of that, but also the fact that we were told that Changes Were Coming lent an air of excitement, even in-between the actual unveilings. And, it took away a lot of anxiety to be kept in the loop.
Towards the beginning of this year, we were told that focus was on Skies, and that we would here more of plans for Fallen London later on. This was great. I vastly appreciated it. For a few months, I at least knew *why* we weren't hearing much from FBG. However, it's now the last day of July, and we still haven't seen an update.
So, yeah, what I want is a statement. Of course, I wish that statement said "of course we'll be finishing the Ambitions by the end of the year!" But even just a "nothing 'til next year, and here's why" would be a big welcome.
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http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/PSGarak
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Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1789
7/30/2019
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Having played for so long, mostly as an Exceptional Friend, I admit I felt worried as well lately. Though I am getting the EF extra content, I felt that a couple of minor things should not be neglected: new art (as little as adding a hat or changing the background colour, I am not talking about a brand new painting ES-style), small fixes (a BDR slot, some card frequency problems), incomplete rewards (the disappointing conclusion to Poet Laureate is supposedly because a residence is in its way), RNG problems during the festivals (how many players complain about not getting a card they are waiting for in order to participate?).
I understand that Sunless Skies is a priority, and I am perfectly fine with having less content for a while because of that. We got new Heists, expeditions, grinds, all that during twelve tough months. I admit though I get a bit rattled when we actually lose content. The festivals, which bring idle players back and renew interest, got hit a bit hard. Arbor was a delight, but on the other hand we lost the second week of the elections, everything fun at Hallowmass, the new item in the mutton island holiday. The most common complaint is that festivals get redesigned in a way that we don't have anything new to play with after the first few days. Making some items BiS (Contrarian lessons, Feducci's lance) does not substitute for playing.
Having said that, Failbetter's stories remain amazing, and I am looking forward to more of them. All shall be well and all manners of things... you know the drill.
edited by Jolanda Swan on 7/30/2019
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Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1789
8/1/2019
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Regarding the Arbor new content: it is great to have it, I fell in love with the location, the writing and possibly an NPC, and it definitely shows London is not being neglected.
But many players have been asking for a continuation of certain storylets (ambitions, Dilmun, broken toys, pianist & spirifer etc). As a Parabola lover, and as someone who has already gathered the material for the Base, I am looking forward to the Rosers, but I am curious as to why the developers went for an entirely new story before the old, still-open ones were revisited. The one that was resolved, The Last Constable made a lot of people unhappy and split the London storyline in two, much like Feducci's marriage. So yes, it would be great to have a word (on the forums or the blog) concerning FB plans.
edited by Jolanda Swan on 8/1/2019
--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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millea
Posts: 45
8/4/2019
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If it's not too rude to ask, MrCandles, perhaps the Fate-Locked BiS discussion be moved to another topic?
I feel like the discussion has derailed extremely from the original point, to its detriment.
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Elvira Blake, the Pariah's Doctor. ༺⚜️༻ Anne Meredith, the Disfigured Captain.
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Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1789
7/30/2019
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Calliope wrote:
And yeah, as a new player who joined this year, seeing everyone talking about how X event is markedly downgraded from before or how X story just hasn't been finished in years does not exactly bode well!
Furthermore, and feel free to strike me down if I have gotten something completely wrong here - but isn't London in-game on a very literal doom countdown right now? Like, in 3 years or so? Are they planning on a MASSIVE revamp of London then to align with the plot they set up and it's therefore kinda in a holding pattern in the meantime? Or is that going to just be....it?
Oh, don't worry. As a new player it will take you years to reach the end of existing content. Fallen London is massive. And new things keep being added.
The 'downgrade' we are talking about in terms of festivals, happens because Failbetter experiments with them. Some features (i.e. election social actions) got removed because there was negative player feedback. For example, when it came to Hallowmass, this year we got a completely new set of mechanics complete with a delightful story, essentially an ES, for free. Lots of work had obviously gone into it. The complaints came because there was less to do in the weeks leading to the story, compared to the whirlwind of previous Hallowmass festivals.
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Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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Dudebro Pyro
Posts: 756
7/30/2019
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As a long-time Exceptional Friend (though not currently), I have to agree: about one hour's worth of playtime every month, while delightful, isn't enough to keep me in the game. Don't get me wrong, they're great stories, but they're "single-use" as it were: as soon as I finish one, they don't affect anything anymore. I am not even as "end-game" as some; I still have some grinds to complete, and one particular storyline I'm slowly working on; but some occasional trinkets to give new stuff to do when not mindlessly grinding the same 3-4 actions for the third month or playing though the one hour of monthly content would do wonders. The new expeditions gave me a fresh thing to grind for a few months; the new heists are a nice diversion. (And both of those are quite minimal, in that they mainly rely on preexisting lenghy mechanics and merely add new entry point and reward storylets. Poet Laureate was the las really big thing to be added, complaints about the final rewards nothwithstanding.)
And in the end, if the one story per month is really all I have to come back to, and there's no remaining motivation or interest to make use of my expanded candles, then the price isn't really justified for me anymore. The stories are great, but there are plenty of "great" books, from classics to contemporary authors, which don't cost $7 per hour to read. Is just the fact that these particular stories are set in a setting I like really worth the markup?
I guess my overall point is that paid content has to be propped up by the overall free base. Paid content provides carefully crafted stories, but they're short-lived. Free content is what makes up the meat of the game; free content is what occupies players 29-30 days a month; free content is why the setting is popular in the first place, and why some people choose to pay $7/month for years rather than buying a 300,000 word critically acclaimed novel for $15 upfront or downloading some ebooks from classic authors.
(There are some exceptions to this rule - see Tanah-Chook, or Sinning Jenny's School - but these seem to be even rarer than their free equivalents.)
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Dudebro Pyro, eccentric scholar
Spare Starveling Kitties always welcome. I collect them.
For that matter, send me your unwanted cat boxes too.
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Waterpls
Posts: 326
7/31/2019
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A M B I T I O N S
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Long grinds: Heptagoat 100/180; Cider Done; Correspondence 21/21; Paramount 4/4.
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Azothi
Posts: 586
8/4/2019
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MrCandles wrote:
I not write "entirely". "Delete your post" because if some person from new team (who was made Skies) will see this idea, ALL BiS may become fate. "Delete" because this idea is too dangerous.
Firstly, you're fixating on just 27 words of a 700-word response - that's not even 4% of what was written.
Additionally, I think you're misunderstanding something. This isn't really a "new team" making Skies, nor is a "new team" making Fallen London. If you look back at rahv's post, you might notice the observation that it's mostly two people working on Fallen London, and both have spent years with Failbetter and even longer with Storynexus - and one of them, at least, played Fallen London before joining the company.
And this idea that "ALL BiS may become fate" is an absurd proposition. Hardly any BiS nowadays is Fate-locked, and there's little evidence indicating that the company intends to break the status quo in any meaningful way.
MrCandles wrote:
If all BiS become fate, this break the game. That I try to say. As a point, I disagree with this precisely because this is a game. We play for our own enjoyment.
For example, let's consider the Dangerous stat. With enough persistence, anyone can raise it to base 215. Now suppose someone plays Flint, which includes a choice that can push Dangerous even higher to 220. And then, because why not, they play it again to raise it to 231. And then again, to 242. Now their Dangerous is 27 levels higher than anyone could ever reach without Fate. Does this break the game? It doesn't break mine. So what if someone out there chooses to spend money this way? At the end of the day, it's going to fund this game that I enjoy playing.
What distinguishes this payment model is that there's not really any incentive to do that. People can choose to do it because they want to. It's in no way necessary to play the game. We just play the way we want to play. Would you call that breaking the game?
And if that's all you wanted to say, then just say that from the beginning. It's exceptionally rude to tell someone to delete the post they spent time and effort writing just because you disagree with it, especially over something so trivial.
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edited by Azothi on 8/4/2019
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Azoth I, the Emissary of Cardinals - A Paramount Presence (not currently accepting new Proteges)
Away to where the Chain cannot bind us.
 Hesperidean.
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rahv7
Posts: 294
8/2/2019
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Just a few thought from me as well:
As phryne pointed out very early in this thread, the main issue here is probably, that Failbetter's team got much smaller end of 2017.
If you take a look at the earlier Exceptional stories (e.g. this one), there are always lots of people involved to check everything. For the past months it's always been just two people: Olivia and James. Sometimes only one of them. In addition, Exceptional Stories for the past 18-20 months have all been written by guest writers. This isn't a bad thing, but it probably means that there is more work to be done during the editing/finishing process (putting it all into StoryNexus, etc.) while the team got smaller. I'm also sending in a fair number of tickets for all kinds of issues (typos, images, actual bugs, etc.) and it's *always* Olivia and James answering (+ Henry for issues with the engine). So for me it seems that these two are currently the only people working on content for FL . Although both are apparently *also* involved in Skies, so it's probably down to the equivalent of one person working full-time.
I agree the typos are annoying, but without investing more resources there is probably nothing to be done about it.
Also a few things that players in this thread either got wrong or that I don't agree with:
- Last year's election had the exact same mechanics and amount of content (i.e. only one flash lay result and no cases and no social actions)
- The FL reworks project was in 2017. Cash did a lot of work for that before he left end of that same year :-/
- The last free content update before the Arbor-update was in March 2019, when we got the Circumspect Envoy Heist (which included quite a bit of text with its multiple endings) ... plus of course the seasonal events (which we actually shouldn't take for granted ... that is a lot of new text each time!).
- Failbetter have said on multiple occasions how very important FL is for them and I don't think we need to worry too much about the future of the game. (The last time I can remember was during the AMA on reddit when Skies was released earlier this year. During the AMA they also mentioned that Ambions should be finished soon-ish.)
- BiS-items need not be free. The game is perfectly playable without them. Super endgame-y things like Paramount Presence get harder to achieve, but that is fairly negligible.
- I am around since end of 2014 and if you don't count the reworks project in the second half of 2017, I don't really think that there was more free content released in previous years. For instance, in 2015 we got the Carnelian Coast, the Wilting Dandy case and an update to Heart's Desire. That's all. In 2016 we got the Elderwick Heist, the first few Renown changes and SMEN (which was Alexis' farewell gift before leaving) ... plus we *lost* a bunch of content due to the mobile app (marriage, K&C, etc). There have probably been more updates before Sunless Sea was released, but since I'm around it hasn't gotten worse.
- I don't think Exceptional Friendship is too expensive. Watching a movie in the cinema is more expensive than spending an hour or two on the monthly story. This gets discussed a lot (also over at reddit) but I don't think there's a way to make this less expensive and still pay the people involved. I've heard arguments like "books have more text and cheaper" but this is comparing apples and oranges. There are a number of people X paying for EF and there is a number of people Y who need to be paid for creating the content. (Paying 45 Fate for that same story on the Fate-page is another story).
I hope I'm not coming across as condescending or aggessive. I also notice the issues mentioned in the thread and I think the typos are particularly annoying. But I also know how much work it is to create all that content and don't think there's an easy solution under the current circumstances.
Edit: Oh dear, this got *way* longer than I expected...
edited by rahv7 on 8/2/2019
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It's possible people have forgotten that there is an actual devil in the actual Lord Mayor's office. A devil who is promising to look after people's souls. What is wrong with everybody?
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/rahv7
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Calliope
Posts: 99
8/3/2019
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MrCandles wrote:
Just delete this message, you think wrong. All BiS must be free, but hard obtainable. EF must have hard acces to BiS as normal players.
Well that's a bit rude isn't it?
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Calliope%20Rannis
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Jason5237
Posts: 298
8/4/2019
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Hi,
I have a markedly different perspective from many members who have posted here; thought I’d share. I’m an EF and have been since pretty early in my FL experience (which has probably been 3 - 4 years now).
I’m not really understanding the justification for the complaint (or feedback, or ask, whatever sounds best). Some have used books and video games in comparison.
A video game may cost between $10 - $50 on Steam, as an example. Let’s say on the higher end of that spectrum, completing a core game and all side quests puts you at 40 hours of enjoyment. Even if you love the game and replay it a couple of times, that’s 120 hours.
The average book on Amazon anymore is at least $5 and could be upwards of $25. How many hours of enjoyment does a 350 page novel bring? 7- 14 hours depending upon reading speed. Again, you may enjoy that and read it multiple times. But you’re still looking at well below 50 hours.
And even if you’re talking about free Kindle downloads, again, it’s the same hours of enjoyment per book.
In my years of playing FL, it has provided countless hours of enjoyment. Not just the in-game experience but also forum participation, further reading on in-game lore and supplementary material, etc. I know that I have been enjoying additional fate content unlike some others here. But really, the volume of free content in this game is prodigious.
We all have our own budgets and our own priorities that we spend our money on. Some go to Starbucks daily and claim that they can’t afford other things that are a commensurate or lesser cost. To each his/her own.
Anyway, no judgement here, only a different lens. While I’m an advanced FL character who is at or near all content boundaries, I am still amazed that we continue to receive additional free content. I wish the same could be said for my favorite video games of yesteryear, or my favorite works of literature.
J-
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H.G.R.: Adventuer, Explorer, Paramount Londoner https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/User766505
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The Ambivalent Dynamo
Posts: 41
8/5/2019
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Just wanted to add my 2 cents on this matter too (not the fate BIS one). I think one way of adding free content would be to introduce more goal that free players are able to achieve but have to work towards (similar to becoming a Poet-Laurate or Paramount Presence). It'd help (from my perspective) to give motivation to playing the game more to achieve a new accomplishment of some sort.
Another thing that Failbetter could add that is (hopefully)not too complex is introduce more social actions, that can have mild/small rewards, help add more flavor to the game by getting to know certain untouched and non vital areas (story wise) more. (ex. their currently impossible 'having scones at beatrice's with another player' storylet). Even small self-contained storylets may help too; storylets/interactions with the regular citizens of London. Examples include letting a maid/butler vent about the things they deal with regularly at the palace, helping a baker with prep work, etc.
edited by The Ambivalent Dynamo on 8/5/2019
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/The%20Ambivalent%20Dynamo Happy to take most social actions except plant-related ones. Don't hesitate to send one.
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Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1789
8/5/2019
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Indeed, these things seem like the easier to add, along with some small mechanical corrections that would make the game easier(again, a fifth slot for BDR clothes).
I admit I was surprised by how vast and how well-foreshadowed the Arbor content was. This seems like a huge and very thoughtful endeavor, in the midst of a diffcult year, so I do feel bad about asking for anything else at the time. But as many players have said, the concern is mostly that people would be driven away if they felt London was stagnating, and that might hurt FL in the long run.
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Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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Lady Karnstein
Posts: 278
7/31/2019
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I am unsure why BiS must be attainable for all players. This is not a very competitive game. There are no raids. The bump from, say, the Velocipide is nice, but hardly needed. You can achieve Paramount Presence without it easy, as well as the other bragging/meritous stuff (Courier's Footprint, Poet Laureate). I mean I would not complain about a hard to acquire equivalent, but I don't see it as a must.
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Lady Caroline Karnstein, The Moral Hedonist (Description)
Infamous writer, artist, and courtesan. Unrepentant Invert. Hesperidean.
Paramount Presence, Correspondent, Nocturnal. Poet Laureate of the Neath, Ambassador to Arbor
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Cadwyn Knivlove
Posts: 37
8/1/2019
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Personally, I don't think the content is getting worse at all! Like others have said, this year they experimented with some stuff for festivals, partially due to player input.
It's easy to forget just how massive Sunless Skies is, and it was definitely a passion project for such a small team. Fallen London hasn't had as much action lately because it's on the back-burner, presumably until around next year. There hasn't really been time to do much besides the Exceptional Stories (and Arbor! Whatever that is, haha, I haven't drawn the card yet).
However, I have seen the typos in recent storylets. I don't think it's that big of a deal- unlike some of London's denizens, the Devs are only human, and this kind of stuff slips through the cracks when you have less people on editing. We'd all like less of them, but honestly, it could be much worse considering how much they've got on their plate.
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Vega
Posts: 150
7/31/2019
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This thread has surfaced some unspoken concerns I have about the future of FL... that this tension between video game development and narrative browser-game development is going to be the M.O for Fallen London and Failbetter Games.
A part of me is concerned about the relative priorities of FL browser-game vs. the video games. Both in the sense of revenue (which we'd probably never find out if FBG doesn't disclose this) and in the sense of focus and energy. I've long finished playing Sea; Skies is in my game library but not yet played; but it's Fallen London that I touch daily. I've dropped my Exceptional Friendship, but I've definitely spent more on FATE and EFship in the last year than I have on Skies and Sea combined. So I completely agree with Dudebro Pyro: the quality of free content prompts me to open my wallet. Conversely, take away the quality of the free content, and I become reluctant to pay for new, limited-edition paid content, even to satisfy a fear of missing out.
As a long-term fan, I do feel that the priorities of FBG have shifted to privilege the video games over the browser-game. While I completely understand the short-term need to add content to Skies, and that FBG is a small team with limited resources... I'm more critical of the long-term ramifications of this. I also understand FBG's original concerns about diversifying revenue streams and staying solvent; I was around during StoryNexus's heyday and saw how it did and didn't succeed in monetization. But in doing so, Sunless Sea began a precedent and Sunless Skies continued it. If this trend of game development and revenue priorities continues, does this mean there will be a third FL video game? and does that mean the browser-game is going to continue in this new status quo of being relegated to second-fiddle, where various story- and game-based promises made years ago remain unfulfilled?
Couple this with the decreasing quality and scope of new free content, and I get the sense that the browser-game doesn't have the same energy it had before, which in turn suggests that FBG has changed priorities, attention and resources. This is a dismaying realization; but also, change happens. In terms of FL's future, I'm prepared to be generous with FBG now, but once the Skies roadmap for post-release development is finished, their next step is going to be very indicative as to what their priorities are. I love Fallen London and what FBG has made over the years, really -- I wouldn't have come back to active play after a 6-year hiatus if this wasn't the case. I'm also prepared to look reality in the eye and accept that there may come a day where I have to acknowledge that the browser-game Fallen London is a game-in-stasis built on past glory, no longer a live game stretching into new and vibrant places -- or (if I let my cynical side think the absolute worst) a game with a paywall. This WILL influence the way I recommend to others and spent my money on FBG.
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edited by Vega on 7/31/2019
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The Jaunty Mystic, Taranlei, roams the streets of London, interviewing fellow citizens. Member of the Sanguine Ribbon Society and the Temple Club (happy to send invites). Accepting all Acquaintances, lethal duels, social interactions, and opportunities for casual roleplay.
The Shifty Spectre has departed on the final voyage. "I have gone down, down, my love..."
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Siankan
Posts: 1048
7/30/2019
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Jolanda Swan wrote:
The festivals, which bring idle players back and renew interest, got hit a bit hard. Arbor was a delight, but on the other hand we lost the second week of the elections, everything fun at Hallowmass, the new item in the mutton island holiday. The most common complaint is that festivals get redesigned in a way that we don't have anything new to play with after the first few days. Making some items BiS (Contrarian lessons, Feducci's lance) does not substitute for playing.
Seconding.
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Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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Acrasia
Posts: 4
7/30/2019
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I'm of the opinion that it is a mistake to let the free content stagnate without substantial change for too long, if only because then you'd be steadily losing new players. Now, I find the recent ESes delightful, but they're a way to keep people who are already invested in FL hooked and to keep playing. I understand we need things behind a paywall in order to keep the lights on, and I agree with that. I also understand that FBG is quite limited in manpower and their resources are divided.
However, I feel that periodic updates on free content, especially unfinished storylines, would be very helpful in keeping new players invested in the games because they'll see that it's a work in progress, and that it's worth their time to stick around to find out more about storylines they like and want to know more about. Finding out that so many of the storylines are on hold indefinitely, and have been so for years, can be disheartening in combination with the markedly lesser amount of attention and resources being poured into FL--in other words, I think newer players would be more reluctant to get invested in FL and shell out money for a game that in their view seems to be in a weird hiatus phase. Something that signals to the players that FL is still something FBG cares about, and intends to keep working towards. Festivals, as some have pointed out, are one way to do that, or older storylines in early game that could use a bit of touch up are another (to say nothing of the long awaited Ambitions update).The more new, active players FL gets, the more you have people buying into the fate-locked content because they're invested in what appears to be an active, still-growing game. This signals something similarly positive to older players too, rather than relying on monthly ESes to encourage veterans to keep logging in.
All this said with the best of intentions and love, because the general level of content is wonderful, fate-locked and not, and in hopes of adding something that might be constructive.
I do agree about the number of typos recently...human error is understanding, but a bit of cursory proofreading is another way to show us you care about the content being released!
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Acrasia of the Bower. The lady is well-known in polite circles for her flirtations and eccentric archaeological studies. In impolite circles, they speak of honey and sunlight caught in gilded boxes...
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Calliope
Posts: 99
7/30/2019
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Yeah, I actually had managed to avoid seeing many typos until now, but it's kiiinda hard to ignore *a lack of a full stop* during the Contrarian's mike-dropping final speech.
And yeah, as a new player who joined this year, seeing everyone talking about how X event is markedly downgraded from before or how X story just hasn't been finished in years does not exactly bode well!
Furthermore, and feel free to strike me down if I have gotten something completely wrong here - but isn't London in-game on a very literal doom countdown right now? Like, in 3 years or so? Are they planning on a MASSIVE revamp of London then to align with the plot they set up and it's therefore kinda in a holding pattern in the meantime? Or is that going to just be....it?
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Calliope%20Rannis
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string
Posts: 18
7/30/2019
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MrCandles wrote:
Also BiS like Ratwork velocipede cannot be achieved free.
That's how the game works, though.
Failbetter obviously can't create a full, self-contained story every month for free, but Exceptional Friendship also doesn't work for everyone. For people who want a different pace, or who can't afford a subscription all the time, or who only want to pay for certain types of content (as well as for people who are also Exceptional Friends) fate-locked stories and equipment offer a flexible way to support Failbetter that works for each person. Having some best in slot items that are available to anyone at any time, some tied to specific free stories or access codes, and some available only as paid content keeps it interesting and also feels fair for everyone.
(And to be clear, I say this as someone who can't, has never, and may never be able to access any paid Fallen London content.)
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Cass%20Wilder
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Teaspoon
Posts: 866
8/4/2019
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MrCandles wrote:
Tom Davidson wrote:
Is there a language in which "delete your post; you're entirely wrong" comes off more politely?
I not write "entirely". "Delete your post" because if some person from new team (who was made Skies) will see this idea, ALL BiS may become fate. "Delete" because this idea is too dangerous.
Quite apart from anything else, Fallen London is rather philosophically set against the notion that any idea is too dangerous. Finding out the truth might have appalling and lethal consequences, but that's part of the fun of the thing!
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Truth lies at the bottom of a well.
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Alt%20Ern
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rahv7
Posts: 294
8/4/2019
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Huh, that is an unexpected turn of events. 
Based on all the "free" games I know that also have paid content (I hesitate to use the term "Freemium" because FL does not use that model in my opionion), Fallen London is by far the most fair about it. You can play the game perfectly well without ever paying Fate and still have fun for months. You need Fate mostly for two things: buy additional stories (you could think of this as paid DLC for a free game) and convenience options (pay money to avoid grinds or do completely optional things for roleplaying reasons). There is no pay-to-win. Not having the few BiS-items will not lock you out of content or result in any meaningful disadvantages.
@MrCandles: You need to understand that game devs do not work exclusively for your amusement. They actually need to pay rent and buy food just like everybody else. The amount of quality content Failbetter is giving away for free is mind-blowing. And they can only do that because players appreciate their work and adore the game and are willing to pay money to get more stories (.... or a guinea-pig that insists it's a weapon).
Here is an interesting talk by Failbetter's Olivia Wood on the topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZp9g7Iumj8
Another note on the restrictions on fate-locked content:
Failbetter do not want us to reveal the actual text of fate-locked stories because if you know that, there is no reason to buy the story anymore. That is what their business is all about. However, we are absolutely allowed to discuss rewards. In fact, for a lot of fate-locked options and stories, the wiki will hint (possible) rewards. For instance, if you look at the page for the "Theological Husbandry"-story, you will see the categories for which items this story is a source. Conversely, if you look at, say, the Obdurate Stallion-page, you will see that it is available via "Theological Husbandry". So discussing rewards is no issue at all. Failbetter explicitely said so.
Concerning stories, I would recommend taking a look at our regular surveys to see which stories are generally well liked. Phryne does something similar here on the forum. Also, nobody will mind if you ask about specific themes, in the same way that you would ask a friend if you will like a book or movie that they own.
Edit: To improve readability of the thread, it'd be lovely if you would not quote pages of text to reply to a single sentence.
edited by rahv7 on 8/4/2019
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It's possible people have forgotten that there is an actual devil in the actual Lord Mayor's office. A devil who is promising to look after people's souls. What is wrong with everybody?
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/rahv7
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sharkie
Posts: 5
7/31/2019
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MidnightVoyager wrote:
Previously, the mayor's card might progress a bit after several months. (I only remember that happening for Jenny, but it's been such a little change, that I could easily be forgetting others.)
Actually, no progression occurred on the card throughout Jenny's year. iirc players expressed a wish to see that change in future mayoral cards. Instead, what happened was arguably a regression. Feducci had less of an impact on London outside his Fate-exclusive story, with no continuity qualities like Jenny had from her FotZ appearance. Then the Contrarian's term barely referenced his campaign platform beyond the card and he didn't get a Fate story despite the plot hook. His seasonal content was enjoyable (imo better than his predecessors'), but we didn't know that would be at the expense of following up on his actual campaign.
I really appreciate FBG's community engagement on Twitter and occasionally seeing staff members on the official Discord. That's why it's worrying that player response sometimes seems to be ignored or misinterpreted, imo with increasing frequency since the end of the Reworks or the start of Skies' development. I highly doubt this is out of malice, like, "no it's the players who are wrong". But like others have said, it would be nice to see more communication to show that FL players are valued as much as Skies players. I personally believe that we are, but I worry about how it appears in general.
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/Profile/tehsharkie
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nyana
Posts: 11
7/31/2019
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I admit that I miss free content the most - my eyes beamed when it was announced a new card would be added to our decks on Thursday. I understand that Sunless Skies has taken priority (and with good reason), but what I worry about is how the browse game seems to be so heavily neglected, Exceptional Stories no withstanding. I agree with prior comments in that I'm concerned about the possible long-term rammifications that might take place.
Even so, I don't want to lose hope yet; as for late, the content and lore we've got in the lastest Exceptional Stories is amazing and beautifully written in my opinion, not to mention my huge soft spot for early-game stories and RP options and await patiently for the final Ambitions updates.
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→ The Ethereal Versifier ; Glasswoman & writer. Bohemian-alligned. Friendly and dreamy, known to many a devil or thug. Open for chess games, coffees, packages and loitering.
→ The Rambunctious Navigator (Bag a Legend) ; Monster-Hunter & cartographer. Ex-naval officer, always followed by two-fisted rats. Open for sparring, coffees, loitering and chess games.
→ The Lethargic Enforcer (Nemesis) ; Licentiate & ocassional undercover. Weary but dangerous, has a fondness for honey. Open for sparring, loitering, coffees and boxed cats.
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Skinnyman
Posts: 2133
8/1/2019
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Well, let's see how the new content will prove! A new card will start a story in
[spoiler]Arbor!!!![/spoiler]
Source: Reddit
--
ESs items and quality requirements sheet. Please check if there are errors or if something is missing
Achievement list if you're feeling bored!
I am accepting Plant battles, Neath's Mysteries card, Starveling Cats and boxed cats.
No suppers, no second chances gain and no need to cure my menaces!
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Siankan
Posts: 1048
7/31/2019
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MrCandles wrote:
Having some best in slot items that are available to anyone at any time, some tied to specific free stories or access codes, and some available only as paid content keeps it interesting and also feels fair for everyone.
Skies above, not access codes! I don't mind the occasional Darkdrop from some celebratory access code, but they should never gate something significant. For one thing, even though many Failbetter access codes are active ad infinitum, they generally fade from public knowledge in a short time; anything hidden away in them is effectively blocked off from anyone who plays afterward (or wasn't active at the time), unless that person spends time on the thrilling task of hunting down years-old access codes.
Second, it breaks the basic narrative framework of the game. Most all of our significant items come from significant story moments in our game; they reinforce the storytelling aspect that is at the heart of Fallen London. (Even the Advent Calendar is part of a larger, significant cycle of events.) Depositing an item of importance in a place divorced from context, accompanied only by a string of necessarily generic text, undermines that core of the game.
Third, it warps game balance. Let's say that Failbetter puts a new BiS Watchful item out there via access code. Well, by nature of an access code, my brand-new Surfacer can acquire that item. Now my entire early game is warped. Getting the item, effectively skipping the built-in progression and obviating all Watchful Bazaar items for that slot, now becomes standard practice for people in the know. Tasks like SotC 21 become permanently easier, which reduces the achievement and tends to create dissatisfaction among the old hands who've done it the hard way. None of this makes for a healthy game.
Fourth, it eats way at Fallen London's uniqueness. One of the chief draws of this game is that it is different from anything else out there--different in tone, in feel, in mechanics, and in the way that it sells itself. For a lot of us, it feels like a refuge from the overcommercialized games that crowd the internet. A game that is constantly bribing you with little deals and trinkets, whose prestige items come down to who was active during which special promotion, has a way of feeling like it's only an excuse to panhandle for your money. Failbetter has never done that. Indeed, the fact that Fallen London so heartily says, "Righto, come ahead!" to anyone, and at most offhandedly mentions the collection box that keeps the lights on, is a significant part of its charm. (I know that the very fact I don't have to drop money every ten minutes is the chief reason why, when I can, I try to squeeze a few drops for them out of the stone.) Reliance on a gimmick like "must-have" access codes would weaken that barrier of distinctiveness, the hallmark creative integrity, and I suspect also weaken some folks' trust that Fallen London won't end up like its overcommercialized brethren.
Now, Failbetter has made use of things like this (including a limited-edition access code), but generally only as a Kickstarter reward when they launched a new game. I am saddened that my Parabolan kitten will never grown into a panther, and that none of my future characters will ever have a Judgmental Hat, but I can accept this because it is a rare occasion and marks something significant in the life of the company and the franchise. If, however, it became a common practice, well, I can imagine a world in which it grated so much as to eventually drive me from the game. I suspect I am not the only one.
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Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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Tom Davidson
Posts: 107
8/4/2019
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Is there a language in which "delete your post; you're entirely wrong" comes off more politely?
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http://www.fallenlondon.com/Profile/Black%20Tom
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Siankan
Posts: 1048
8/2/2019
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rahv7 wrote:
Just a few thought from me as well:
<snip>
I'm with you on pretty much all of it. I also have a feeling that somewhere in London, someone was reading the first few posts of this thread and chuckling, "They don't know what we're putting out this week!"
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Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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The Ambivalent Dynamo
Posts: 41
8/5/2019
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Ya, I think what draws people in to Fallen London is the mysteries, the stories, and character progression (qualities/gear/rewards) from them. I know certain storylines like ambitions are a huge endeavor, but seeing smaller, self-contained storylines would help draw people in. I know certain storylines might take a lot of work to finalize, so more ways to interact with the world (even social actions with other players), would help to make the world more vast and diverse to me.
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/The%20Ambivalent%20Dynamo Happy to take most social actions except plant-related ones. Don't hesitate to send one.
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Skinnyman
Posts: 2133
8/4/2019
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MrCandles wrote:
I start playing from Sunless Sea and joined Fallen London only in Murgathroyd Formula season. But I know some about online games. Make BiS fate is wrong way. You must learn that BiS down here, in the Neath, has a different meaning when we compare it to other games. Fallen London is not about this, even some players min-max the Hell out of it like busy working bees! :P
And while complaining/begging/nagging/suggesting that you don't have Fate, how do you expect for projects like this to function financially?
edited by Skinnyman on 8/4/2019
--
ESs items and quality requirements sheet. Please check if there are errors or if something is missing
Achievement list if you're feeling bored!
I am accepting Plant battles, Neath's Mysteries card, Starveling Cats and boxed cats.
No suppers, no second chances gain and no need to cure my menaces!
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
8/4/2019
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I'm not sure why you're concerned about BiS items becoming entirely fate-locked, since that isn't really happening. Going through my inventory, fate BiS main stats items (not counting professions) are:
- Corinthian Belfry Hat, +3 shadowy over free BiS. Was available for free.
- Thoroughly Cowed Pony, +6 shadowy with no free BiS.
- Ubergoat, +10 watchful over free BiS. Only costs 1 Fate.
- Feducci's Lance (Replica), +10 dangerous over free BiS. Tied with the hopefully-temporarily retired Waxwail Knife.
- A Traitor's Carriage, +3 dangerous transport with no free BiS.
- Private Debating Lessons with the Jovial Contrarian, +10 persuasive over free BiS.
I may have missed one somewhere, but that's only six items in the entire game. Fallen London doesn't have competitive content outside Knife and Candle, which used different stats anyways. So does it really matter if players can spend money for slightly higher stats? None of these are required for any content, they just make it slightly easier. And if Failbetter adds more fate BiS items? They won't remove the existing free items, so as long as they don't add content that requires even higher stats than current, that won't matter either.
That said, if you're concerned about Feducci's Lance, the Private Debating Lessons, and the possibility of future Hallowmas weapons, I entirely agree with you. Those items threaten balance issues, devalue existing items, make powerful items less special, and I hate the "time-limited grind replaced with Fate" way to get them. Personally I hope Failbetter never adds more of these.
Finally, if you're talking about BDR items, it's fine for those to have Fate-locked BiS. They're only relevant to one game mechanic, and unlike the main stats, high BDR isn't required to unlock content. Having the max free BDR makes Notability grinds slower, but it doesn't block off any content. The only time it's mattered how fast you can grind Notability is Hallowmas, which is why Failbetter removed that feature. So while I agree that grinding Notability without spending money is more frustrating, it doesn't actually stop you from doing anything.
MrCandles wrote:
I think, enhanced fate teasing will be better. Make more fate sources, for 20 or more free fate maximum. When player spend this fate for only one story (spirifier, velocipede squad), this will be stimulation to buying fate.
But firstly, I told about BiS. Teasing by hight stats of fate items is wrong way. Fallen London about stories, I really understand it.
Personally, I think just giving more Fate is the wrong approach. Many of the cheaper Fate stories are old content and their writing just isn't as good. Instead, I'd love to see Failbetter let people choose a free Exceptional Story. We have over four years of them by now. Offer a choice from a handful of the popular older ones. Then free players get a treat while some people decide to buy other stories. It's only awkward for players who've already played all the offered stories, but I certainly wouldn't say no to replaying an old favorite for free.
(This conversation has gotten off topic from the original point of the thread, though...)
edited by Optimatum on 8/4/2019
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Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
 Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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C.H
Posts: 4
8/4/2019
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I really don’t know, but if you are trying to have some humorous or in a sarcastic-but-in-a-friendly-manner conversation, maybe you need to make it very obvious, we don’t know you that much, we can only read what you have written.
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Acrasia
Posts: 4
8/3/2019
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Heh, yes, well, the new content certainly shut me up quickly on a few points...
I do agree with Jolanda on wanting some updates on long-pending, existing storylines, though--I get it may be more fun/easier to create new, (sort of) self-contained storylines, but again, some of those storylines are early game content, so it's quite a lot of "litter" (for lack of better word) up front.
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Acrasia of the Bower. The lady is well-known in polite circles for her flirtations and eccentric archaeological studies. In impolite circles, they speak of honey and sunlight caught in gilded boxes...
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Kharsirr Lynx
Posts: 318
7/31/2019
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Let me add my voice here too: while Exceptional Stories as of late are definitely best in mechanics and lore, I do ache for new content, and more than that - to any data of new content. While waiting, I got almost everything that the game has to offer, succumbing to most ridiculous task of Newspaper Titles in the end, as all the other ones are done.
Still I wait, as there is still hope and energy to wait - but some clarifications would be in order.
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Kharsirr%20Lynx
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Tintinnabulum
Posts: 61
8/1/2019
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New free content has turned up unexpectedly a couple of times recently, with no warning/fanfare -- new heists in the Flit and the three new expeditions in the Forgotten Quarter. (And now this new card, though there was the day or two of notice.) So it can happen.
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/Profile/Tintinnabulum
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Blaine Davidson
Posts: 388
7/31/2019
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I too am a long time fan, having joined approximately when SMEN first was disabled. I became an Exceptional Friend because I could never have enough actions, there was always something to grind towards and look forward to.
But now that I have my Heptagoat, London has lost a lot of its lustre.I look forward to the Exceptional Stories because for one day I can relive that glorious past of constantly checking my phone, consuming that nugget of content in the same way a child with no willpower treats a piece of candy. I used to look forward to the monthly events whether it be the Feast of the Rose or Hallowmas but as discussed in this thread the lack of new mechanics and often watered content leaves little to be desired.
If there was a way to get the Exceptional Stories on their own I would have switched over to that monetary model already. I barely use the 40 actions in their entirety these days and I think once I convert my notablity to get to 215 Watchful there won't be a need to worry about dipping below a certain Making Waves.
And if I don't need a reason to grind Waves each week, do I really need a reason to check into London regularly? It's a sad thought, seeing as how London has been a huge part of my routine for the past half decade.
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Blaine Davidson, a reserved and sensible woman with a fondness of collecting rarities.
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