Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
2/21/2019
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As the 1887 election approaches, I can't help but realize that 1898 will be the first Fallen London election where there could be three former Mayors competing for a non-consecutive second term. It might be sort of interesting to throw Jenny, Feducci, and the Contrarian against one another and see who is the most popular. It would also be the only fair way of bringing them all back, as any one of them on their own would probably crush the opposition, while together you'd have a potentially tight three way.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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sharkie
Posts: 5
3/5/2019
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Siankan wrote:
What then do you say about last year? Were we robbed of a story by the Contrarian's second run, or did Failbetter demonstrate the ability to fulfillingly flesh out a candidate over multiple years?
I'm really curious about this, too!
I admit, the Contrarian might've been a special case. In 1894, he hinted that his story wasn't finished; no other runner-up has had such a big hook for continuation. (iirc the Campaigner and the Detective sounded like they'd oppose Feducci, not really that their own stories would continue.) It was also predictable that he'd 'switch' platforms if he ever ran again, and it seemed natural he would.
However, his 1896 campaign didn't rely on players' knowledge about 1894. It didn't directly continue 1894 so much as draw from it. There were references, like his campaign colour and lantern; he mentioned the hijacking and January made a cameo. But those pieces of continuity were bonuses for older players instead of crucial information. His main focus shifted from the Council and LoN to fighting the Ministry. More experienced players could appreciate the development, but that context wasn't necessary in order to understand his characterisation or platform.
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/Profile/tehsharkie
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Professor Wensleydale of Hardwick
Posts: 208
2/21/2019
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Hm. Excellent observation. I wonder if Failbetter takes notice?
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Sir Wensleydale of Hardwick- Monochromatic Myrmidon, Newspaper Editor, Legendary Charisma.
Mr Netae- SEEKING MR EATEN'S NAME
Aaron Wimbleton- Private Detective. Some Medical Experience.
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Azothi
Posts: 586
2/25/2019
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It's a good idea, in my opinion - the Election is inherently limited by the ability for the writers to create interesting scenarios through the candidates, so when a recipe for political engagement like this emerges naturally from the storytelling, then the opportunity would be good to utilize. The Contrarian provides significant flexibility as well, since his position can bend to fill in the gaps between Feducci and Jenny while taking appeal from both (as a revolutionary and a supposed supporter of London).
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Azoth I, the Emissary of Cardinals - A Paramount Presence (not currently accepting new Proteges)
Away to where the Chain cannot bind us.
 Hesperidean.
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sharkie
Posts: 5
3/4/2019
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I like how the first three mayors already have history with each other, to an extent other characters usually don't when they're from different factions:
- Election 1894: The Contrarian called his rivals ‘pompous’ and ‘self-important’, but donated to them when his campaign was hijacked and may or may not have wanted Jenny to win by the end. He was a good sport and discouraged his supporters from challenging her victory.
- Mid-1894 to mid-1895: On Jenny’s mayoral card, she asked Contrarian voters if they’d “been exposed to a few too many of [his] about-faces”.
- Election 1895: Jenny supported DTC against Feducci. Feducci moved into Blythenhale early and argued with Jenny about her term; she threw a loud party under his room and he insulted her curtains. They seemed okay with each other by the time the results were revealed.
- Hallowmas 1895: Feducci sent an ideal student to Jenny's Finishing School, apparently out of goodwill towards the kid (the VPC's poor illegitimate daughter). He also admired the Contrarian’s actions as an orphan and arranged to meet with him, saying that they have similarities.
- Election 1896: Jenny was bitter about how the Brass Embassy helped Feducci in 1895. Judging by that reaction, she might’ve supported the Contrarian, though he called her and Feducci ‘ineffectual’. Feducci refused to leave Blythenhale throughout, then blew it up after the Contrarian won, possibly as a callback to his argument with Jenny.
- Fruits of the Zee 1896: The Contrarian poked fun at the mayor’s office by bringing Feducci’s empty chair to Mutton Island.
- Hallowmas 1896: The Contrarian inexplicably had a stockpile of replicas of Feducci’s lances. He couldn’t have found them lying around, since Blythenhale exploded. And he may have visited and become ambassador to Arbor, where Feducci once made an ill-fated pilgrimage.
The biggest problem with the idea: repeating candidates/mayors uses up opportunities to develop other characters. But the election doesn’t have to be the only event where NPC’s make new appearances - it’d be weird if it is, since not everyone has goals achievable through politics. Hallowmas 1896 developed the Duchess, the Gracious Widow, and the Injurious Princess. The Arbor premise suited them very well; the story made good use of their dynamic with each other and the player character, through the confession/betrayal/clue mechanics. Hypothetically, I feel like that story wouldn't have worked as well in an election. (Although maybe they'll run this year and Hallowmas was a hint, lol.)
The princesses' backgrounds have similar themes of displacement and loss of power. The first three mayors share themes of hypocrisy and indecision - and on the flip side, idealism, though Feducci’s is warped. Arbor was perfect at Hallowmas, which is typically when NPC’s reflect on their pasts. The fifth election would be a great time to address the first three mayors' loose ends, especially if the Contrarian doesn't get a Fate story this year. They wouldn't even have to win to receive some closure.
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/Profile/tehsharkie
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Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1783
3/4/2019
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Ι can't help but feel that fun as the premise might be, it would also be perceived as something of a cheat.
Every election, we had three Fallen London NPCs fleshed out. Returning to previous candidates would "rob" us of the interesting stories other NPCs have to tell. Plus new players who haven't been around four years ago, would gain significantly less from the election experience.
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Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1783
3/10/2019
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Ah, Anne. I missed how, once you decide upon a point, you never let go no matter what. Elections can't come soon enough!
I just hope they don't mirror real life politics again. Too much aggression.
edited by Jolanda Swan on 3/10/2019
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Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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Siankan
Posts: 1048
3/10/2019
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Anne Auclair wrote:
Depending on your choices during the Wedding, the mayoralty did work for him or almost worked for him, despite his humiliation in the actual government. There is probably no shortage of other schemes he could try.
But the Marriage is Fate-locked and was also available again this year (meaning that for some people--an increasing proportion if the story continues to be offered each winter--it happens after Feducci's term, and thus that his having attained the mayoralty is more important to the story than his actually being the mayor). I don't think it's fair to color Feducci's term too much with a story that only a portion of players ever saw.
Anne Auclair wrote:
Some people rather liked it.
Oh, it was a delightful touch. My point is that one explosion in a year does not make for an entertaining term. It makes, at most, for an entertaining ending.
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Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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Azothi
Posts: 586
3/11/2019
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Jolanda Swan wrote:
I just hope they don't mirror real life politics again. Too much aggression. I found Election 1896 really interesting in the way that it actually could mirror aspects of real-life politics without creating the same level of tribal aggression, to which I'm inclined to agree with Anne on the value of the mechanical restructures (especially having a week in-game to learn about candidates as opposed to three days outside).
Mr Slowcake reflected a fear of hostile foreign interference and constructed identities that only serve the interests of a party or other such conglomerate. The Jovial Contrarian reflected a fear of flip-flopping politicians and a fear of politicians with secret hidden agendas trying to bring down existing systems. The Captivating Princess reflected a fear of aristocrats (in our society, plutocrats) dominating the political process and sweeping the poor and downtrodden under the rug. These are all fears that influence the modern voting population, and the Election offered an interesting commentary on that.
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Azoth I, the Emissary of Cardinals - A Paramount Presence (not currently accepting new Proteges)
Away to where the Chain cannot bind us.
Hesperidean.
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Arcengal
Posts: 196
2/23/2019
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I joined the game part-way through Feducci's term and I honestly never laughed as hard as when he blew up the mayoral mansion on the way out. I got some very strange looks since I was playing on my phone.
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Arcengal
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Honeyaddict
Posts: 501
2/23/2019
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Jolanda Swan wrote:
It would be interesting to see if people would still vote for him though. I imagine he would blame some hidden agenda for his failures, so there's that. On the other hand, Failbetter would have to let us know if he is married to the Princess or not - this was quite a lost opportunity in the Princess' election run.
edited by Jolanda Swan on 2/23/2019
The issue with that is, that if they're married (or not) then people would have universes where the opposite happened and the Fate Story might have to be edited, and there would be consequences either way. Better/worse relationships between London and the Elder Continent, the legalisation of the Red Ribbon Duels, legalisation of Feducci's fighting rings (or the destruction thereof) etc.
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Honeyaddict, Scarlet Saint, Paramount Presence
pleasure to meet you.
Has some ideas the Masters won't approve of like some items and establishing a Colony in Parabola.
I will accept most social interactions (not duping). I do enjoy role playing as well.
Have some possibly still active codes!
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sharkie
Posts: 5
2/24/2019
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phryne wrote:
Feducci's term was a huge disappointment. I don't think he'd stand a chance against Jenny and the Contrarian.
You're right, but this is one of the reasons why I think it’s an interesting idea!
On their own, Jenny or the Contrarian would probably defeat Feducci, thanks to morality and satisfaction with their terms. Even a new third candidate or past runner-up might just steal votes from Feducci. But there’s been strong overlap between Jenny and Contrarian fans, even since 1894. Plus, some newer players wish they could've fully experienced their terms. If the first three mayors ran against each other, Jenny and/or Contrarian supporters would agree that Feducci needs to be blocked...but they’d disagree on who had a better term and who’s more likely to defeat him.
It’d be somewhat similar to the divide between Detective and Campaigner voters in 1895. It could be more intense, since Jenny and the Contrarian have strong existing popularity and tangible successes to cite. Or it might be more relaxed, because both sides are adaptable. It’d be interesting to see whether their presumably idealistic supporters would rally behind one of them; or if Feducci would have a shot if the vote is split; or if Feducci is so unpopular he clearly becomes hopeless from the start. Tbh, the last option is less likely than it seems. Loyalists aside, he'd be considered the most chaotic/amoral candidate. He'd grab some Slowcake and Princess voters from 1896 - who got 53% of the vote, combined.
Like I said, this is just one of the reasons why I like the idea. And I don't know whether it's a coincidence, but this suggestion briefly came up on the FBG Discord server a few hours ago. :p
edited by sharkie on 2/24/2019
edited by sharkie on 2/24/2019
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/Profile/tehsharkie
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Elias Pembleton III
Posts: 2
3/11/2019
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I am of two minds. On the one hand, I would love to see the Contrarian run yet again, preferably on an entirely different platform. On the other, variety is nice, and I'm sure there are plenty of characters to scrape for hilarious mayorships. Could you imagine a speech by Pages?
The past few mayors have had their time to shine. It's only fair we give other characters the opportunity to develop more as well.
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Elias%20Pembleton%20III
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sharkie
Posts: 5
3/11/2019
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Elias Pembleton III wrote:
On the other, variety is nice, and I'm sure there are plenty of characters to scrape for hilarious mayorships. Could you imagine a speech by Pages?
The past few mayors have had their time to shine. It's only fair we give other characters the opportunity to develop more as well.
Character variety should be prioritised overall! (Mayor Pages, omg.) But I think Anne's idea is a unique, one-off thing, making the most of these specific characters and the dynamic they could have. The thread title suggests 2020/1898, so this year would still have entirely new people.
1898's election will be the fifth. By then, the 'standard' election might be getting stale for older players. And there will be players who've left, who might be enticed back by the general story or the reappearance of a past Mayor - some people returned when they learned about the Contrarian's second campaign. There would also be newer players curious about older Mayors; I already see this happening with Jenny and Feducci. I don't think there's any harm in experimenting with this configuration, then returning to the usual format the next year.
Also, returning Mayors wouldn't necessarily shut out development for other NPC's. People liked it when Council members appeared during the Contrarian's first campaign. This would be a good opportunity to showcase characters who have a political stake but can't run for office, themselves, for mechanical or narrative reasons. There probably wouldn't be complaints about them stealing the spotlight from the 'real' candidate, because the real candidates would already be well-established characters. Jenny is compatible with people from several different factions; Feducci could neglect Hell this time, in favour of characters related to the Elder Continent; and we could see the Contrarian's relationship with months besides the ones we've (barely) seen with him.
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/Profile/tehsharkie
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Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1783
3/5/2019
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The Contrarian's very character relies on his ability to change sides. So he is, indeed, a special case: to flesh him out, he needed the whole arc.
Again, I am not against seeing the candidates return. Mostly I want to see new NPCs fleshed out!
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Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
3/6/2019
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Jeremiah Oathes wrote:
I'm somewhat interested in a second run of the Princess. Or at least some adequate story content. She's just... fascinating with her little inherent dichotomy.
My second proposal is the Soft-hearted Widow.
Great suggestions and arguments! But this isn't the 1897 nominations thread...
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Jeremiah Oathes
Posts: 73
3/7/2019
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Anne Auclair wrote:
Great suggestions and arguments! But this isn't the 1897 nominations thread... Yeah, I got carried away. I'll move it over there after I slept.
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Dr Jeremiah Oathes - Natural Philosopher, Alchemist and Anatomist (part-time). Occasionally in Service to the Crown and the Bazaar. Would like to dissect a Master (for science and mad laughter).
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Siankan
Posts: 1048
3/7/2019
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Anne Auclair wrote:
He kinda has unfinished business. It wouldn't be like Feducci to just give up after one defeat. For all his innumerable faults, he's not a quitter.
No, but he's not an idiot either. Most of what Feducci did during his term was get frustrated that being Mayor was apparently useless to whatever he did. This was probably good for London, but it would hardly incline him to run again. The celebratory fireworks at the end of his term were an eloquent statement of his opinion of London politics.
Even if he hasn't given up on London politics, that doesn't mean London hasn't given up on him, thus Phryne's original statement. Returning Feducci to the stand is mostly a matter of asking how many of his supporters have not 1) learned better, 2) wandered off in disgust or 3) wandered off in boredom. Who is going to come back and vote for a candidate whose first term was marked with failure?
I could see Sinning Jenny returning; most people see her term positively, and if she accomplished nothing (but she will! within weeks!) she still probably had the most successful term, barring any final actions on the Contrarian's part. I might see the Contrarian returning. I don't see Feducci returning, and frankly I think an all-former mayor slate would be less interesting storytelling than it might at first seem.
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Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
3/8/2019
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Siankan wrote:
No, but he's not an idiot either. Most of what Feducci did during his term was get frustrated that being Mayor was apparently useless to whatever he did. This was probably good for London, but it would hardly incline him to run again. The celebratory fireworks at the end of his term were an eloquent statement of his opinion of London politics.
But permanently walking away means acknowledging a permanent defeat. This was something he wouldn't want to do! It's not usually in Feducci's character to acknowledge limits to his abilities, unless said limits pertain to his relationship with a perceived equal (such as the Princess). He has a clear motive: wanting to avenge himself on those that defeated him. Round two, in other words. If Jenny & the Contrarian run again, there'd also be an element of one-upping them.
Siankan wrote:
Even if he hasn't given up on London politics, that doesn't mean London hasn't given up on him, thus Phryne's original statement. Returning Feducci to the stand is mostly a matter of asking how many of his supporters have not 1) learned better, 2) wandered off in disgust or 3) wandered off in boredom. Who is going to come back and vote for a candidate whose first term was marked with failure?
Feducci's failure is ultimately a matter of political opinion. Some supporters considered his term a success on entertainment value alone.
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
3/9/2019
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Siankan wrote:
Anne Auclair wrote:
But permanently walking away means acknowledging a permanent defeat. This was something he wouldn't want to do! It's not usually in Feducci's character to acknowledge limits to his abilities
Who said anything about limited abilities? The mayoralty was clearly a tool, and equally clearly an ineffective one. If a hammer breaks, you don't keep hitting the nail with the bits; you go get yourself a new one. Whatever Feducci may be doing next, I don't see cause for him to seek out another term to do it with.
Depending on your choices during the Wedding, the mayoralty did work for him or almost worked for him, despite his humiliation in the actual government. There is probably no shortage of other schemes he could try.
Siankan wrote:
Anne Auclair wrote:
He has a clear motive: wanting to avenge himself on those that defeated him.
And this would be who?
Society, various Reformers, the Palace bureaucracy...
Siankan wrote:
Anne Auclair wrote:
Feducci's failure is ultimately a matter of political opinion. Some supporters considered his term a success on entertainment value alone.
Was the Blythenhale blast that spectacular, then? I'm sorry I missed it.
Some people rather liked it.
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
3/5/2019
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Jolanda Swan wrote:
Plus new players who haven't been around four years ago, would gain significantly less from the election experience.
Oh I dunno, they'd be reintroduced to three characters that they mostly or entirely missed and could only find out about by reading old threads, wiki entries, and journal posts.
I'm not so bothered by replays, provided they're fair. The number of characters who can plausibly run for London's Mayor is finite after all, so replays are kinda inevitable.
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Catherine Raymond
Posts: 2518
3/5/2019
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phryne wrote:
Feducci's term was a huge disappointment. I don't think he'd stand a chance against Jenny and the Contrarian.
I agree that Feducci's term was a disappointment; I expected much more from him, frankly. Ah, well.
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Cathy Raymond
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Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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Siankan
Posts: 1048
3/5/2019
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Jolanda Swan wrote:
Every election, we had three Fallen London NPCs fleshed out. Returning to previous candidates would "rob" us of the interesting stories other NPCs have to tell.
What then do you say about last year? Were we robbed of a story by the Contrarian's second run, or did Failbetter demonstrate the ability to fulfillingly flesh out a candidate over multiple years?
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Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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Catherine Raymond
Posts: 2518
2/21/2019
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Anne Auclair wrote:
It would also be a nice way of further fleshing out their respective mayoral terms. All three candidates would spend time discussing what they did and also criticizing each other's respective terms. Between Jenny's feistyness, Feducci's insolence, and the Contrarian's sarcasm, it could get pretty vicious.
It could also be entertaining. I'd be all for it--but I'd like to see some fresh blood first. Miriam Plenty, for one, perhaps.
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Cathy Raymond
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Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1783
2/23/2019
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Great idea but I hope it doesn't happen! I love Jenny's practical idealism but the Contrarian turned out so competent.
Then again on his second run he might govern as an agent of Feducci. You never know.
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Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
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phryne
Posts: 1347
2/23/2019
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Feducci's term was a huge disappointment. I don't think he'd stand a chance against Jenny and the Contrarian.
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