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A game of survival, trade and exploration in the universe of Fallen London

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Cpt. Eructus
Cpt. Eructus
Posts: 54

3/7/2019
Yes, as I finished writing that post and looking at my own arguments in it, I settled for leaving them unchanged.
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Siankan
Siankan
Posts: 846

3/7/2019
Cpt. Eructus wrote:
I think the convention for classes of military or civilian vehicles is to leave them as is.

Irrelevant, really, but this reminds me of the old story that the Chevrolet Nova sold poorly in Spain, because nobody wanted a car that said no va right on the bumper. Probably an urban legend, but it amuses me all the same.

--
Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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Cpt. Eructus
Cpt. Eructus
Posts: 54

3/8/2019
I just got to the qualities related to the Irrepressible Cannoneer and realized a problem. The Cannoneer is deliberately given no specific gender and always refered to as "they", and the protrait is kind of ambiguous aswell. The problem is, we don't have a developed neutral gender in Spanish and every article and adjective and even the name Cannoneer itself has to be masculine or feminine. I can work around it most of the time in the case of the player by using some neutral words and workarounds, but I don't see how to do it in this case, when pretty much every sentence demands using "el/la". I'm going to have to give them a gender I'm afraid.
edited by Cpt. Eructus on 3/8/2019
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MissVeils
MissVeils
Posts: 1

3/8/2019
¡Buenas! =D


I actually started translating Sunless Sea to Spanish 2 years ago but had to give it up due to having no time between work and studies. I have studied translation and would love to help someone braver than me! Also I am absolutely loving all the research, reasoning and discussion on the translation of these terms <3


Also on the characters referred to as "they" I would go with the recently created "elle". Even if it's not on the dictionary, I feel like many terms that are used in the game aren't anyway. Would be better than just assigning them a gender.

(I just broke my lurking and registered because THAT'S how excited I got that someone is doing this)
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NotaWalrus
NotaWalrus
Posts: 163

3/9/2019
I would go for acknowledging the ambiguity upon first meeting them, and then settle for a gender. Something like

"El cañonero (o tal vez cañonera) se acerca. Ha sido tu amigo desde siempre..."
edited by NotaWalrus on 3/9/2019

--
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/NotaWalrus
Ignacious, the Licentious Scholar, he will accept most social invitations, including boxed cats and affluent photographers (but only betrayals), though he is absent-minded and might take more time than entirely necessary. He apologizes.

Good evening from Ignacious
Ignacious's Backtory
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Cpt. Eructus
Cpt. Eructus
Posts: 54

3/11/2019
MissVeils wrote:
¡Buenas! =D


I actually started translating Sunless Sea to Spanish 2 years ago but had to give it up due to having no time between work and studies. I have studied translation and would love to help someone braver than me! Also I am absolutely loving all the research, reasoning and discussion on the translation of these terms <3


Also on the characters referred to as "they" I would go with the recently created "elle". Even if it's not on the dictionary, I feel like many terms that are used in the game aren't anyway. Would be better than just assigning them a gender.

(I just broke my lurking and registered because THAT'S how excited I got that someone is doing this)



Thanks. I have no formal translation background (I actually studied History), but I've been translating mods and other things for a while. Never something this big though.

I've considered using "elle" but, although I sympathise with the need to linguistically aknowledge non-binary genders, I think that's a quick fix that doesn't address the underlying grammatical structure that it's trying to fix. To create a truly inclusive neutral gender in Spanish requires a much deeper overhaul of grammar, not just flipping a letter and calling it a day, that is just a temporary solution. Which is fine for the Internet and other forms or immediate communication, but until a more permanent solution is worked out (and I admit I'm part of the problem here, because if we don't contribute to spreading the issue, it will never be deemed worth the trouble of fixing it properly), I'm not confortable using it in a classic-ish literary context, like Sunless Sea's, and I feel it would break the immersion of the 19th century setting.

NotaWalrus wrote:
I would go for acknowledging the ambiguity upon first meeting them, and then settle for a gender. Something like

"El cañonero (o tal vez cañonera) se acerca. Ha sido tu amigo desde siempre..."
edited by NotaWalrus on 3/9/2019


Something along those lines could perhaps work. Not perfect, but nothing is. Thanks for your input

That brings up another issue: the proper translation of Cannoneer in this context would be Artillero, but I'm already using that for the Longshanks Gunner and other instances of the word "gunner", and there's not really a proper synonim of Artillero in Spanish. "Cañonero" doesn't have that meaning according to the DRAE, but I've found at least one 19th century reference (or rather, reference in a book written in the 20th century to look like the memoirs of a 18th-19th century soldier) to it being used for cannon-makers rather than cannon-users (page 105), which would also fit our Cannoneer and their inventions. I haven't found any other reference but I'm inclined to use Cañonero anyway, bacuse if nothing else, it's perfectly understandable in context.
edited by Cpt. Eructus on 3/11/2019
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Cpt. Eructus
Cpt. Eructus
Posts: 54

3/20/2019
I suppose the Guinea Page mascot is just a (honestly, quite lame) pun on Guinea Pig and the fact the it increases Pages?
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Siankan
Siankan
Posts: 846

3/20/2019
Cpt. Eructus wrote:
I suppose the Guinea Page mascot is just a (honestly, quite lame) pun on Guinea Pig and the fact the it increases Pages?

The Guinea Page is indeed a pun on Guinea Pig, but it's also a play on the chivalric nature of the Guineas. A page is a young nobleman (7-12, give or take a few years) who's started his training and is serving in another nobleman's household. Pages become squires, and squires eventually become knights. Chivalry being a common European institution, that should get you to the Spanish equivalent. As punny as the name is, I suspect the meaning here is more important than the pun.

--
Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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Cpt. Eructus
Cpt. Eructus
Posts: 54

3/21/2019
Wow, I must have been particularly dense yesterday, didn't think of page as young pre-squire. especially considering the Spanish equivalent is simply paje. To maintain the pun or at least a similar sounding name with Guinea Pig (Conejillo de indias ins Spanish) I may use the diminutive and call him Pajecillo de Indias.
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Cpt. Eructus
Cpt. Eructus
Posts: 54

3/21/2019
What would you say is the paritcular meaning of this phrase:
"Not all the elders of the zee swam."
Is "swam" meant as "swam away" (as in disappeared or died in the zee), meaning that some elders remain, or does it mean that not all elders were zee creatures, but also people that walked as opposed of swimming (considering the phrase is part of the "The Secrets Old Zailors Keep" quality)? The second option seems somewhat more likely to me, but the use of the past tense is what confuses me.
edited by Cpt. Eructus on 3/21/2019
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Siankan
Siankan
Posts: 846

3/22/2019
Acknowledging the Failbetter talent for ambiguity, I suspect the second is more-or-less the right one. Although I'll point out, as far as the interpretation goes, that Temtum doesn't swim, either.

--
Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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Cpt. Eructus
Cpt. Eructus
Posts: 54

4/1/2019
Then there's the Wildweald court. Weald is an archaic word for forest in modern English, but in Old English it can also have the meaning of "power, authority". I'm sure Failbetter had both meanings in mind when naming the court of the Empire of Hands. So it would mean something along the lunes of "the power of the wild (forest)", unless the full word Wildweald has a more concrete meaning I'm not aware of beyond the sum of its parts.

The main word to use in Spanish would be selva. It's mostly used for "jungle" in modern Spanish, but in a more archaic or literary sense, it can mean any sort of untamed or wild forest, or even any form of wilderness (for reference, Jack London's Call of the Wild is usually translated as "La llamada de la selva" and that's set in the Alaskan wilderness), so in a way it encompasses the full meaning of Wildweald as in "wild forest", so I would only need to find a good fit for the "power, auhority" part.

Or I could go simply for "La Corte Selvática", for brevity's sake, as the power and authority are already implied in it being a royal court.
edited by Cpt. Eructus on 4/2/2019
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Cpt. Eructus
Cpt. Eructus
Posts: 54

4/2/2019
Any insights or suggestions on Hearthsake Island? I'm not against leaving it unchanged because it sounds good as a proper noun even in Spanish, but if I can find a good translation that conveys the meaning behind it, much better.
I assume that the name is given to the island by its inhabitants, the cannibalistic pirates, "for their hearth's sake", in honour or in remembrance of their home? (I remember they toast the Empress so they must be proud Londoners)
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Ixc
Ixc
Posts: 282

4/3/2019
I was of the interpretation that the pirates are repentant (but not abstinent) of their cannibalism, and as such don’t want to return home; hence the “sake” comes from forsaken. They do miss home, but are forsaking it as penance.

--
Pleased to meet you. Ixc, spy and detective. Inventor of the Correspondence Cannon.
Are you a Paramount Presence? Record your name here. For posterity, of course.

Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.
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Cpt. Eructus
Cpt. Eructus
Posts: 54

4/3/2019
So maybe something like Isla del Hogar Perdido (Lost/Forsaken Hearth Island), or to keep it in a single (nonesxistent) word, maybe Isla del Deshogar. I rather like that one, actually.
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Siankan
Siankan
Posts: 846

4/3/2019
Ixc wrote:
I was of the interpretation that the pirates are repentant (but not abstinent) of their cannibalism

The one non-pirate in the island seems to be, but not the pirates themselves. If anything, cannibalism takes work on an island where humans rarely come.

--
Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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Cpt. Eructus
Cpt. Eructus
Posts: 54

4/4/2019
In any case, I think "Isla del Deshogar" translates the feeling of nostalgia for a lost home.

Now I wonder if Polythreme, being an Anglicized word of Greek origin, should be left untouched or Hispanicized following the Spanish rules for transcribing Greek words, leaving us Politreme. In this case, it's not a brand name like the ship classes, so there's more sense in transcribing it, but on the other hand, there's not much added clarity or understanding to be gained by doing it, it just alters the sepelling and pronunciation.
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NotaWalrus
NotaWalrus
Posts: 163

4/6/2019
Cpt. Eructus wrote:
In any case, I think "Isla del Deshogar" translates the feeling of nostalgia for a lost home.

Now I wonder if Polythreme, being an Anglicized word of Greek origin, should be left untouched or Hispanicized following the Spanish rules for transcribing Greek words, leaving us Politreme. In this case, it's not a brand name like the ship classes, so there's more sense in transcribing it, but on the other hand, there's not much added clarity or understanding to be gained by doing it, it just alters the sepelling and pronunciation.

I'd go with Politreme, since that's pronounceable in Spanish

--
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/NotaWalrus
Ignacious, the Licentious Scholar, he will accept most social invitations, including boxed cats and affluent photographers (but only betrayals), though he is absent-minded and might take more time than entirely necessary. He apologizes.

Good evening from Ignacious
Ignacious's Backtory
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Cpt. Eructus
Cpt. Eructus
Posts: 54

4/8/2019
I think I'll do that. Thanks.

What meaning of brisk do you think applies to the Brisk Campaigner? Lively and energetic or abrupt and curt? Looking at her dialog, it could be both (D__n, it probably is both)
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Ixc
Ixc
Posts: 282

4/8/2019
I’d tend more to the curt side.

She didn’t come off as a nice person to me.

--
Pleased to meet you. Ixc, spy and detective. Inventor of the Correspondence Cannon.
Are you a Paramount Presence? Record your name here. For posterity, of course.

Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.
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