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The Fourth Tournament of the SRS is over! Messages in this topic - RSS

James Sinclair
James Sinclair
Posts: 226

12/15/2018
After five weeks of furious combat, the Fourth Tournament of the Sanguine Ribbon Society has concluded! Please congratulate the winner, the indomitable Archbishop Nero Keller, whose lethality is matched only by her generosity. The Archbishop has earned the title of Champion along with a purse of 540 First City Coins, and will be inducted into the Sanguine Hall of Fame. Also extend your congratulations to runner-up Padraig Cooper, who also earns a spot in the Hall of Fame and 270 First City Coins.

Here is the final scoreboard for the participants who completed the requisite 15 Lethal Sparring Bouts (the full combat log is visible here):

1. Archbishop Nero Keller: 23 points
2. Padraig Cooper: 20 points
3. Shylock X: 18 points
4. Anne Carnacki: 16 points
5. The Red-Eyed Hungry Looking Gentleman: 14 points
6. JaggedMallard and Colin Sapherson, Lord President of the Council: tied at 13 points
7. Saint Toad: 12 points
8. Taranlei: 10 points
9. Aurelium: 9 points
10. Fenoglio: 7 points

Thank you to everyone who participated in this event, and to those whose generous donations make tournament prizes possible. Like the previous tournament, the structure of this event was new and experimental, so feedback would be much appreciated. I hope you have all enjoyed it; for now, please continue to make use of the Leaderboard to facilitate your dueling, and look forward to future SRS events. 🗡

--
James Sinclair

Curator of the Sanguine Ribbon Society 🗡

A fully-fledged rêveur of The Night Circus.

Wines is red
Spices is yellow
But old Jack-of-Smiles
Is a murderous fellow
+5 link
Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1435

12/16/2018
Congratulations to the participants and the gracious coordinator!

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
+1 link
Cooper
Cooper
Posts: 61

12/18/2018
Well-played, everyone. Congratulations to the winner. I have elected to donate my coins back to the SRS, and so has Nero Keller, meaning we all wasted a large number of actions. Whoops.

This was my first tournament, so I cannot compare it to past tournaments in terms of rules and structure. I will say that this format encouraged a weirdly predatory style of play, where I would look for whomever was scoring badly or not geared for late game and immediately challenge them. This helped me rack up my point total, but did not feel remotely fair. I really am a Remorseful Opportunist. Towards the end, short of people to duel, I stopped caring and just fought whomever.

The point differentials for attacking vs. defending were interesting. It has been proven that defenders have an easier time of it, but you needed to attack in order to have a chance at the title. Again, this led to me actively avoiding other similarly geared members of the SRS in favor of only attacking the weak, and waiting for stronger members to take the initiative where I had a better chance of winning. This does not feel fair, and would probably have been solved by a heavyweight/lightweight league like other contests have had. I have no idea how many people we would have had for each respective league, however, and it would likely have slowed things to a crawl.

One duel took an entire week to conclude and the person I fought with offered no explanation or apology. That was a little irritating. I am sorry to say that I did not provide this individual any wound healing in response.

I had a blast overall, and hope the next contest is not too far off. I did not think I would take second, and I was wrong. I also did not think I would beat the Archbishop, and I was right.

Congrats to Maleclypse, by the way, who is (I believe) the only contestant to best both myself and Archbishop Nero Keller. He didn't seem to fair too well against regular opponents, so I guess he must be some kind of giant slayer. Props to him. I should have known better than to issue that challenge.

See you all soon, I hope.
edited by Cooper on 12/18/2018
edited by Cooper on 12/18/2018

--
Padraig Cooper,
Remorseful Opportunist. https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Padraig%20Cooper
+1 link
James Sinclair
James Sinclair
Posts: 226

12/18/2018
Cooper wrote:
Well-played, everyone. Congratulations to the winner. I have elected to donate my coins back to the SRS, and so has Nero Keller, meaning we all wasted a large number of actions. Whoops.

This was my first tournament, so I cannot compare it to past tournaments in terms of rules and structure. I will say that this format encouraged a weirdly predatory style of play, where I would look for whomever was scoring badly or not geared for late game and immediately challenge them. This helped me rack up my point total, but did not feel remotely fair. I really am a Remorseful Opportunist. Towards the end, short of people to duel, I stopped caring and just fought whomever.

The point differentials for attacking vs. defending were interesting. It has been proven that defenders have an easier time of it, but you needed to attack in order to have a chance at the title. Again, this led to me actively avoiding other similarly geared members of the SRS in favor of only attacking the weak, and waiting for stronger members to take the initiative where I had a better chance of winning. This does not feel fair, and would probably have been solved by a heavyweight/lightweight league like other contests have had. I have no idea how many people we would have had for each respective league, however, and it would likely have slowed things to a crawl.

One duel took an entire week to conclude and the person I fought with offered no explanation or apology. That was a little irritating. I am sorry to say that I did not provide this individual any wound healing in response.

I had a blast overall, and hope the next contest is not too far off. I did not think I would take second, and I was wrong. I also did not think I would beat the Archbishop, and I was right.
I'm glad you enjoyed it, and thank you for both the feedback and the generosity in returning your winnings back to the Society. The prizes for future events are going to be even more impressive at this rate.

The decision to not split this tournament into separate leagues based on stat levels was deliberate, because weaker participants would be free to refuse challenges from opponents that they perceived as too strong. Of course, if they accepted such challenges, then that's a gamble they were willing to take (or they didn't do their homework by researching the leaderboard stats and their challenger's profile page). I hoped that players would end up more or less self-sorting in this tournament, fighting only people of similar skill levels, but there's enough randomization to keep things interesting even for lower-stat players.

One issue that I didn't consider is the possibility of poor sportsmanship via stalling, where someone who's lost a round in a sparring bout might drag their feet in finishing it (sounds like that happened to you); or, worse, cancel the sparring bout entirely (which I should have put in the rules as not allowed). Some players might have even been stalling in hopes of drawing a mood card; I didn't disallow this because it's impossible to enforce, but maybe I should make a note for next time that mood cards aren't allowed, just to dissuade players from waiting for them.

As you can see from the final scoreboard, a bit over 1/3 of the participants actually ended up completing the necessary 15 lethal sparring bouts. This is about what I expected, but I think some people may have gotten discouraged when more active players (i.e. The Archbishop) racked up a number of bouts in the first couple of weeks, gaining what must have seemed an insurmountable lead. It might have been more effective to create incentives for prizes beyond only the two highest scorers, to keep interest higher.

If anyone has any further feedback or suggestions for future tournaments, it would be greatly appreciated.

--
James Sinclair

Curator of the Sanguine Ribbon Society 🗡

A fully-fledged rêveur of The Night Circus.

Wines is red
Spices is yellow
But old Jack-of-Smiles
Is a murderous fellow
+1 link
Tsar Koschei
Tsar Koschei
Posts: 142

1/29/2019
Congratulations to the winners! I've recently joined this lovely society of yours, and I just have a little query about some of the finer points of dueling:

Are Dangerous and Shadowy (of equivalent value, obviously) considered equal in duels?

If you use dreams to help you, I would suppose that all dreams are equal, but is the value of a given dream that you've amassed thought to factor in at all?
edited by Tsar Koschei on 1/29/2019

--
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Tsar%20Koschei

No chess, loitering, friendly sparring, coffee at Caligula's or Affluent Photographer, please.
0 link
Vega
Vega
Posts: 141

2/1/2019
Tsar Koschei wrote:
Congratulations to the winners! I've recently joined this lovely society of yours, and I just have a little query about some of the finer points of dueling:


This thread may answer your questions.
http://community.failbettergames.com/topic26835-how-to-win-sparring-bouts.aspx

I'm happy to engage in some lethal bouting if you want to test things out. (I'm overdue for a trip to the slow boat anyway!)

~~~

James Sinclair wrote:
I hoped that players would end up more or less self-sorting in this tournament, fighting only people of similar skill levels, but there's enough randomization to keep things interesting even for lower-stat players.


I can't speak for all the contestants, but my personal experience... in principle I was planning that, but the reality ended up being different.

FL is a non-real-time game, there's no way to monitor if your social invitation has been viewed by your recipient, let alone if the recipient is even online. Furthermore, there's the risk of lag between duels (as Cooper mentioned), with no way to speed it up. Now, filling out a tournament card is the prerequisite to placing and winning prize money, and we have to fight 50% of contestants. I have no hard numbers to back this up, but my gut felt that fighting 50% of contestants is quite a high margin to clear when you have to account for no-shows, tournament withdrawals, and downtime waiting for the other player to respond.

Based on this gut feeling, and perhaps a misplaced sense of good sportsmanship (it's kinda hard to give "sorry, I don't like the look of your menacing clothing" as a reason for rejecting a duel, heh), I ended up fighting every duel received even if I knew I would lose it. I was recipient of 4-5 duels, the rest I initiated. While I did a bit of picking-and-choosing at first, by around duel #8-10 I resorted to challenging anyone whose profiles looked faintly active, in the interest of completing my card.

So if the tournament structure was meant to encourage this self-sorting, it didn't 100% succeed for me, because I was factoring in my perceived limitations of FL into the final fighting strategy. And that strategy prioritized completing my card (first hurdle) over winning duels (second hurdle), as I already knew by duel #5 I was not going to win.


James Sinclair wrote:
This is about what I expected, but I think some people may have gotten discouraged when more active players (i.e. The Archbishop) racked up a number of bouts in the first couple of weeks, gaining what must have seemed an insurmountable lead. It might have been more effective to create incentives for prizes beyond only the two highest scorers, to keep interest higher.


Agreed, which is why I suggested a "wooden spoon" reward. Apart from trying to address some of the asymmetry of rewards, the underlying concern I had was that the bottom of the ladder would fade away from the tournament out of discouragement (to say nothing of other reasons). And since the 50% contestant margin is high, any dropouts would hinder other contestants' ability to complete their tournament cards, which may compound the issue.

I suppose it all depends on what the goal is for the tournament. If it's just to be winner and runner-up, then the obstacles to filling the tournament card aren't so important. But if we want to increase participation and more placing, perhaps a small reward for filling the card would be an incentive for the bottom of the ladder to keep duelling even if there's no hope for winning?

Just my perspective - hope this helps. This was my first SRS tournament, I thoroughly enjoyed it, and look forward to more in future.



--
edited by Vega on 2/1/2019

--
The Jaunty Mystic, Taranlei, roams the streets of London, interviewing fellow citizens. Accepting all Acquaintances, social interactions and opportunities for casual roleplay. Member of the Temple Club, happy to invite you for a visit, PM me in-game!

The Shifty Spectre has departed on the final voyage. "I have gone down, down, my love..."
+3 link
Tsar Koschei
Tsar Koschei
Posts: 142

2/4/2019
Vega wrote:
This thread may answer your questions.
http://community.failbettergames.com/topic26835-how-to-win-sparring-bouts.aspx

I'm happy to engage in some lethal bouting if you want to test things out. (I'm overdue for a trip to the slow boat anyway!)

Thank you kindly, that was very helpful. I'm currently a bit strapped for actions, but I'll accept any and all challenges as quickly as I'm able.

--
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Tsar%20Koschei

No chess, loitering, friendly sparring, coffee at Caligula's or Affluent Photographer, please.
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