Guest
10/20/2018
|
So, while I wait for the opportunity to acquire the items I need for max BDR and beginning the long notability grind needed to max my stats, I decided I would grind out an Ubergoat, because I hate the artwork for my Bifurcated Owl and want very much to replace it with an equally bizarre and dreadful companion that has the benefit of being a status symbol & looking metal as all hells. I've been led to believe that one of the better ways to grind echoes is to trade winsome dispossessed orphans in bulk for tribute to the Court of the Wakeful eye. Then I did the math after spending a few days at this (having started with just a few hundred echoes) and figured out I'd still need to sell over *two thousand children to tigers* to reach that goal- only stopping to complete exceptional stories as they release.
So my question to you is this: is there *any* way more efficient than that outside of fatelocked actions (I'm aware of the Gallery of Serpents) to reach my goal? Because my character is nothing if not amoral and self serving- I'm a professional murderer with no faith to speak of ordained as a Bishop who's played both sides of every conflict I've ever participated in, guided purely by personal ambition & my own whims... but selling *two thousand* children to hungry tigers seem like a bit much even for me.
edited by Isaac Gates on 10/20/2018
|
|
|
0
mark as "accepted answer"
link
|
Ixc
Posts: 365
10/20/2018
|
They don’t eat the kids, they have them as friends/partners, or assistants.
That said, my stomach’s still bloated from all the tea parties I had with the Minister of Enigmas. It’s a little tiring to claim all of your tribute.
--
Pleased to meet you. Ixc, spy and detective. Inventor of the Correspondence Cannon.
Are you a Paramount Presence? Record your name here. For posterity, of course.
Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.
|
|
|
+4
mark as "accepted answer"
link
|
Guest
10/20/2018
|
If you turn anyone over to the tigers they make some seemingly innocent claim about their intentions for them, I seriously doubt that turning over the human equivalent of veal is the exception.
edited by Isaac Gates on 10/20/2018
|
|
|
-1
mark as "accepted answer"
link
|
PSGarak
Posts: 834
10/20/2018
|
If there's any gift that they don't eat, it's the orphan. There are implications that the Winsome Dispossessed Orphan isn't quite what he seems.
--
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/PSGarak
|
|
|
+1
mark as "accepted answer"
link
|
elderfleur
Posts: 77
10/20/2018
|
It might be part of the ruse, and I might just be a sap, but I'm willing to give our carnivorous feline neighbours the benefit of the doubt on this one (and no, there isn't a non-Fate non-RNG grind proven to be more reliably profitable, although ironically a Goat could unlock a few comparable grinds which are mildly less efficient or less reliable).
--
—Elderfleur
|
|
|
+4
mark as "accepted answer"
link
|
Guest
10/21/2018
|
Well damn, was worth asking. I suppose the good news is if I make 2 more round trips after I hit the 2125 mark I'll have all the money I need to get my Ubergoat (who I'll be naming Black Phillip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3dK1tOlRjo) *and* have more than enough left over to become a paramount presence.
(For the record I still don't believe the tigers for a second despite your testimonials- but then I'm the cynical type.)
|
|
|
-1
mark as "accepted answer"
link
|
Parvorus
Posts: 42
10/21/2018
|
There's also the possibility of buying Strong-Backed Labour in the Bazaar Sidestreets, converting it into Expedition Supplies and going after the Tomb of the Silken Thread with them. It's not quite as profitable as the Urchin Shuffle and requires 267 Watchful to Straightforward the challenges, but it allows you to stay in London the entire time and make use of opportunity cards.
--
Feel free to send me anything other than Photographers.
►My Profile◄
|
|
|
+3
mark as "accepted answer"
link
|
Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
10/21/2018
|
Isaac Gates wrote:
Because my character is nothing if not amoral and self serving- I'm a professional murderer with no faith to speak of ordained as a Bishop who's played both sides of every conflict I've ever participated in, guided purely by personal ambition & my own whims...
edited by Isaac Gates on 10/20/2018
So like everyone else's character then :P
|
|
|
+5
mark as "accepted answer"
link
|
Catherine Raymond
Posts: 2518
10/21/2018
|
I agree that the Orphans will do fine.
The game pretty much tells you when a gift will be used by the tigers as food. It as good as admits that any Lucky Weasels you give will be a "snack", that the plump vicar might well be eaten, and that the criminal you offer will be hunted, but may live and be rewarded if he eludes the tigers who hunt him for long enough.
On the other hand, the Bohemian artist is repaying his debt to you "by fulfilling the Tiger Keeper's commission," the sailors and labourers you send will be doing tasks that the tigers need done but can't do because they lack thumbs, and that the visiting noblewoman will "deepen" the Court's ties "with London nobility". They are not potential snacks--the tigers have better uses for them.
edited by cathyr19355 on 10/21/2018
--
Cathy Raymond
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355
Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
|
|
|
+2
mark as "accepted answer"
link
|
Greg M
Posts: 197
10/21/2018
|
It's not so much that you need to believe the tigers, it's more that the tigers have no reason to lie--if you go to Port Carnelian, they're perfectly up front about eating people whom they feel have trespassed, and they're not quiet about stating their needs. They've got plenty of other people giving them Tribute...and if you look at the specific text of the interaction between the Tigers and a Winsome Dispossessed Orphan, it's clear there's something special going on.
--
Profile: GregM.
http://www.fallenlondon.com/Profile/GregM
Available for any non-harmful social interactions.
|
|
|
+3
mark as "accepted answer"
link
|
Guest
10/21/2018
|
Kukapetal wrote:
Isaac Gates wrote:
Because my character is nothing if not amoral and self serving- I'm a professional murderer with no faith to speak of ordained as a Bishop who's played both sides of every conflict I've ever participated in, guided purely by personal ambition & my own whims...
edited by Isaac Gates on 10/20/2018
So like everyone else's character then :P
I had assumed based on reading replies in exceptional story threads that there were at least *some* people who tried to do the "right" thing at least some of the time. :P
|
|
|
0
mark as "accepted answer"
link
|
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1783
10/21/2018
|
Well, of course! I admit that the early game forces you in some unsavory acts but some players -me included- choose to reolplay (even if they only roleplay in their heads) as pretty decent people.
With this out of the way, yes, the urchins are not eaten. But the infinite boredom of the tiger grind kind of makes it off-putting for me anyway. I prefer the usual way -heists, expeditions even before they were extremely profitable, favor trading and so on. It would not be much of a game for me elsewise, and imagine I am grinding for a cider.
edited by Jolanda Swan on 10/21/2018
--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
|
|
|
0
mark as "accepted answer"
link
|
Guest
10/21/2018
|
Cider doesn't seem worth it to me... I mean by the time you can afford it there's almost nothing in the game left that can actually threaten you- and you'll *probably* have a destiny that guarantees you some form of immortality anyways.
If you're gonna grind that much cash you might as well just go for a Heptagoat- it's about the same level of usefulness and comes with the benefit of being adorable.
And the grind isn't that big of a deal for me at this point because until the next exceptional story drops I've completed prettymuch every storylet possible... well, unless Failbetter finally finishes my ambition storylet (Bag a Legend). Oh, and also I did make a secondary character to seek the name to keep me occupied while I deal with the tigers.
|
|
|
0
mark as "accepted answer"
link
|
Tyrconnell
Posts: 271
10/22/2018
|
Parvorus wrote:
There's also the possibility of buying Strong-Backed Labour in the Bazaar Sidestreets, converting it into Expedition Supplies and going after the Tomb of the Silken Thread with them. It's not quite as profitable as the Urchin Shuffle and requires 267 Watchful to Straightforward the challenges, but it allows you to stay in London the entire time and make use of opportunity cards.
The math is complicated, but including "A Sign?" and the very rare chance of getting caught by your rival, the expedition is probably very, very slightly better than the ideal tribute grind. Add not having to leave London, which means no time wasted in travel, no lost opportunity cards, and most saliently the ability to fund some of your expeditions with Docks favours, and it's a clear winner. In fact, it's such a good grind that it outdoes acquiring and calling in favours (2.1 EPA).
The catch is that you need extremely good Watchful to take advantage of the grind. It's the kind most often acquired by already having the Ubergoat, although it can be done without one.
--
Tyrconnell, a gentleman and doctor of diverse interests and multifarious proclivities
|
|
|
+2
mark as "accepted answer"
link
|
Guest
10/22/2018
|
Hmmm... I might have to consider a change in professions to get better watchful gear then, because I am already very tired of shlepping back and forth across the zee.
|
|
|
-1
mark as "accepted answer"
link
|
dov
Posts: 2580
10/22/2018
|
Tyrconnell wrote:
The math is complicated, but including "A Sign?" and the very rare chance of getting caught by your rival, the expedition is probably very, very slightly better than the ideal tribute grind. Add not having to leave London, which means no time wasted in travel, no lost opportunity cards, and most saliently the ability to fund some of your expeditions with Docks favours, and it's a clear winner. In fact, it's such a good grind that it outdoes acquiring and calling in favours (2.1 EPA).
Rahv7's detailed calculations show that grinding expeditions (i.e. not relying on the occasional Docks Favour) is at most 1.97 EPA.
Do you have different numbers that push this beyond 2.1?
--
 Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how.
(Most social actions are welcome. Please no requests to Loiter Suspiciously and no investigations of the Affluent Photographer)
|
|
|
0
mark as "accepted answer"
link
|
idyl
Posts: 168
10/23/2018
|
dov wrote:
Rahv7's detailed calculations show that grinding expeditions (i.e. not relying on the occasional Docks Favour) is at most 1.97 EPA.
Do you have different numbers that push this beyond 2.1? The most recent math I've seen takes "A Sign?" into account, and shows ~2.26 - 2.28 EPA. Discussion here:
https://old.reddit.com/r/fallenlondon/comments/9ptuju/profitable_ways_of_spending_basic_resources_in/e87s1ts/
--
“Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est"
|
|
|
+1
mark as "accepted answer"
link
|
Skinnyman
Posts: 2133
10/23/2018
|
Well now, looks like that 777+ Orphans and 500k+ cryptic clues kind of lost their value! 
--
ESs items and quality requirements sheet. Please check if there are errors or if something is missing
Achievement list if you're feeling bored!
I am accepting Plant battles, Neath's Mysteries card, Starveling Cats and boxed cats.
No suppers, no second chances gain and no need to cure my menaces!
|
|
|
0
mark as "accepted answer"
link
|
dov
Posts: 2580
10/23/2018
|
idyl wrote:
dov wrote:
Rahv7's detailed calculations show that grinding expeditions (i.e. not relying on the occasional Docks Favour) is at most 1.97 EPA.
Do you have different numbers that push this beyond 2.1? The most recent math I've seen takes "A Sign?" into account, and shows ~2.26 - 2.28 EPA. Discussion here:
https://old.reddit.com/r/fallenlondon/comments/9ptuju/profitable_ways_of_spending_basic_resources_in/e87s1ts/
Interesting. I've missed this analysis/simulation.
Thanks.
Though from reading the simulation's code, it seems that it doesn't take into account the actions to get the Absinthe needed to confront Rivals (it just counts the Absinthe as a -0.5 echo cost). But playing with the code this doesn't seem to affect the end result by much.
----
edited by dov on 10/23/2018
--
Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how.
(Most social actions are welcome. Please no requests to Loiter Suspiciously and no investigations of the Affluent Photographer)
|
|
|
0
mark as "accepted answer"
link
|
Yang Yang
Posts: 69
10/25/2018
|
dov wrote:
Though from reading the simulation's code, it seems that it doesn't take into account the actions to get the Absinthe needed to confront Rivals (it just counts the Absinthe as a -0.5 echo cost). But playing with the code this doesn't seem to affect the end result by much.
It's probably worth mentioning that most characters have most items stockpiled because we are all a bunch of packrats. Whatever Absinthe is used up will dip into this stock and most likely be replenished whenever they play the wines opportunity card. (Unless of course you're hard-grinding for one of the top wines and you're doing manual conversions.)
--
A somewhat eccentric, somewhat intellectual, somewhat larcenous fellow.
A leopard in the shadows. Check you pockets, and stay away from the alleys.
|
|
|
+2
mark as "accepted answer"
link
|