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Election 1896: A Winner Announced! Messages in this topic - RSS

Absintheuse
Absintheuse
Moderator
Posts: 348

7/2/2018
You’ve campaigned, fixed and agitated. You’ve finessed and used your Reputation. And most importantly, you’ve voted! All the votes have been tallied. London has decided:

There's nothing contrary about the statistics, The Jovial Contrarian has won!
His eyes are bright with champagne and excitement. "So much to do! First off, getting my headquarters set up for a proper war footing. In a manner of speaking," he winks extravagantly. "People to thank, hopes to dash, information to burn, you know how it is. And then prepare for a nasty fight with the Ministry."



Now that Election 1896 has come to a close, there’ll be a brief transitional period as a new mayoral residence is set up and The Jovial Contrarian can settle in his newly won offices.

Once fully situated, a mayoral Jovial Contrarian card will become available in your Opportunity Deck. As the third official mayor of Fallen London, you may hear news of their work crop up from time to time during their year in power.

Look for the An Electoral Opportunity throughout London and speak to your candidate to wrap up any loose ends. You will have till 9th July to use up any leftover Reputation.

As always, we appreciate hearing who you think should run for Mayor of Fallen London next year – keep an eye out for the official Proposed Candidates for 1897 forum thread. Statistics on the Election will be released within the next few weeks so we can see how the votes and Careers played out.

Thank you for your political tenacity, delicious friends.
edited by Absintheuse on 7/2/2018
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Diptych
Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3882

7/2/2018
This is an august day for Fallen London!

--
Diptych, the Emancipationist Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
+23 link
Dudebro Pyro
Dudebro Pyro
Posts: 765

7/2/2018
Incidentally, immediately after Blythenhale was blown up, I was able to go duel before the Feducci in his "thoroughly, possibly illegally" redesigned Blythenhale.

Gives a whole new meaning to "redesign".

--
Dudebro Pyro, eccentric scholar

Spare Starveling Kitties always welcome. I collect them.
For that matter, send me your unwanted cat boxes too.
+22 link
Absintheuse
Absintheuse
Moderator
Posts: 348

7/2/2018
Passionario wrote:
Absintheuse wrote:
There's nothing contrary about the statistics, The Jovial Contrarian has won! He steps forward, offering the crowd a regal wave. Thundering roars of approval hail his victory. “Victory, then?” He nods down to the roaring crowd, “It was never in question, only the margin. London is in for a most exciting year.”

From last year's announcement:
Absintheuse wrote:
Feducci claims victory with nearly half the vote! He steps forward, offering the crowd a regal wave. Thundering roars of approval hail his victory. "Victory, then?" He nods down to the roaring crowd, "It was never in question, only the margin. London is in for a most exciting year."

Meet the new boss, same as old boss?



Fixed! Nothing to see here
+15 link
Anne Auclair
Anne Auclair
Posts: 2221

7/2/2018
Victory announced wrote:
The candidates (minus Mr Slowcake, but plus the Amanuensis) gather on a platform in Hastings Square, awaiting the arrival of the incumbent Mayor. After almost half an hour, it becomes apparent no one is coming.
...
Just as the civil servant is making a discreet exist, a loud explosion is heard. Smoke rises from the direction of Blythenhale. It later emerges that as his last act as Mayor, Feducci had the mayoral residence exploded.

You know, for some reason I can't help but feel that Mayor Feducci's term was not the brilliant success that he hoped it would be.

--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1823

7/2/2018
Oh, for shame, Lady Anne. Are you appropriating suffragist ideals to shame those who did not want Marquise Cthulhu de Sade for Mayor?

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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Anne Auclair
Anne Auclair
Posts: 2221

7/2/2018
The best person actually won, imagine that.

And I've been on the losing side three elections in a row. What are the odds of that? :P

--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
+13 link
Absintheuse
Absintheuse
Moderator
Posts: 348

7/2/2018
incerteza wrote:
As far as I remember, last year FBG posted the percentages of votes for each candidate. Could you please post them this year, too, if possible?
(I promise I'm just a curious nerd and not a devil who failed to collect his data)



We'll definitely be sharing the percentages in a stats blog sometime in the next few weeks
+13 link
a Nice Friend
a Nice Friend
Posts: 127

7/3/2018
I doubt the Bazaar could be killed by any human-made bomb or cannon.

But could it be exasperated to death? If so, we've elected the right man.

--
Definitely a nice friend - http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/a%20nice%20friend
+12 link
Tsar Koschei
Tsar Koschei
Posts: 803

7/2/2018
Anne Auclair wrote:
The Princess was just a bit too privileged, refined, and classically feminine for mob appeal.



That's an interesting way of putting "authoritarian, petty, and insufferably self-absorbed".

--
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Tsar%20Koschei

Sanguine Ribbon Society tournament champion.

No plant battles, loitering, coffee at Caligula's or Affluent Photographer, please.
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Anne Auclair
Anne Auclair
Posts: 2221

7/2/2018
Nagaretsu wrote:
Damn,I lost my bet. I guess threatening journalists and mocking lower and middle class doesn't work to get londoners approval.

Visibly desiring to demolish 1/7th of the city's residential area also seems to be something of a vote loser.

--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
+11 link
Reused NPC
Reused NPC
Posts: 260

7/2/2018
Wait, Feducci blew up WHAT now?
SOMEbody's a sore loser. Well, not loser so much as... no-longer-winner?
Honestly, he could at least have helped inaugurate the Contrarian... Speaking of which, I wonder if the various interactions with the Contrarian will be different now. Will he still attend parties on a regular basis? And go for the Whiskered Admiral's throat? Seems an unwise thing to do as Mayor, but it can't be worse than blowing up your own manor.

--
ReusedNPC, a d__ned lunatic.

Edmund Viric, a rather dreamy sort.

"I won't stay long, I shan't stay long! Tell me a secret."
--the Baldomerian
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Dudebro Pyro
Dudebro Pyro
Posts: 765

7/5/2018
Sorry, Feducci blew up the Contrarian's card.

--
Dudebro Pyro, eccentric scholar

Spare Starveling Kitties always welcome. I collect them.
For that matter, send me your unwanted cat boxes too.
+10 link
Kalamari
Kalamari
Posts: 17

7/5/2018
It's an utter disaster that the Princess didn't win. One of the great tragedies in this setting I think is the utter weakening of the Royal Family. It's part of the decay of London, of course, showing that a leader as powerful as Victoria is reduced to an utter ghost of herself, and the effect that the dealings of the Bazaar and it's Masters have on people and nations as a whole. The Princess represented a sort of hope for the future, I think. Utterly ahistorical and unique, removed from the context of history books and saved from countless speculation on who she could be from the Surface. She embodied what the New London in her spirit, showing how if an individual could adapt and take what she pleases from the dark Hades that is the Neath, the Empire could do the same, leading into a bright and glorious future under-



HELLO LET ME TELL YOU WHY THIS IS WRONG

I believe the greatest factor in the lack of a win for the Princess (beyond her being the Princess) is the fact that she's gone a pretty drastic personality change. I will admit the Princess of old was only ever really experienced by me in the Feast of the Rose, when you have the chance to invite her to your Salon, and when she restores you to Court. My perception is colored by my lack of fate content involving her. But the thing I saw there was enticing, and inhuman. As her text description stated, she wore scandal like a Parisian gown. You got an idea of her from these encounters, of how she was feared more than loved. After all:

"She's a marvellous example to us all. A marvellous, marvellous example. No-one has a bad word to say about her. And don't you forget it.

You already need to have met her and see how far and dangerous her hungers go; in a sense, you got a personal, intimate connection with her, you got to see the monster beneath the mask. What you see in the Salon option is the public face; how people hover around her and how distant she is from the rest of them. London knows she is something magnificent and intimidating, but they don't know the truth you know. The idea of an Evil Aristocrat is an old one, and the old Princess was a refreshing take on it; she went without subtly yet without going into a cartoonish extreme. It was a look built on dignified appearances and a barely contained monstrous truth. Her reputation grew with the Gift, which I still hear recommended as one of the best and most horrifying exceptional stories there is.

There was a build up of a reputation of menace around her, and she failed to live up to it in her new incarnation. The Princess we see in the Election/Skies seems almost vapid and detached from the setting, working as a much more obvious character. Her logo of "Make London Magnificent for Me." throws what little subtly she had out the door, wearing her colors on her chest even more prominently than she had before. Her actions during her campaign did little to make her seem worthy of the aura of mystique she had around her, with petty actions such as banning journalists and planning to demolish Spite. This is a bit of a turn off for fans of the older model; in all honesty, the idea of someone so monstrous having such an airy, almost dreamlike way of viewing the world and interacting with it is very interesting. But it doesn't feel like the Princess. I see hints and glimmers of it the old her still there, what with the collection of previous lovers, but in general, I'm isolated from her because what aspects of her I liked are turned to 11 or just gone entirely.

In short, I was expecting a Wolfhound, and got a Chihuahua.

--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Kalis%20Amar Main account, zailor and monster hunter extraordinaire! Open to all actions except Seeking and other negative ones.

http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Rebecca%20Bhatt Alt account, poet and thief, tries to stay out of danger. Open to peaceful actions.

http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Herbert%20Phillips%20West Second alt, seeker in the making. Will take any punishment.
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Gul al-Ahlaam
Gul al-Ahlaam
Posts: 238

7/5/2018
I would argue that the underlying assumption in a lot of posts is that being more or less overtly villainous correlated with having fewer or more supporters, and I don't think that's true.

Not all players have characters whose decision making matches up with or even has much of a relation to the standards and ethics of the real world, whether in politics or in other aspects of their lives. Gul makes decisions based on their own complex code which is based on aesthetic principles and emotional resonances, and is utterly unlike my own.
Not all players take the role-playing aspect very seriously either, and many just vote for whichever candidate seems most interesting to them (which is what I actually do, and then make up a justification for Gul to vote for them afterwards).
Many players really like highly motivated villainous characters, and are far more likely to vote for them than for anyone who seems too ordinary (myself included).

I also think millea makes a very good point about characterization.

Feducci's expanded character in the election built very fluidly from what we already knew about him and what was implied through his actions and dialogue. In contrast, the Princess seems to have put on a new public persona, complete with an entirely new face, which while strategically and practically a good choice does distinguish her from Feducci in a very interesting way.

I would argue that she used to have much more of a Feducci-esque badass, outwardly sinister vibe, at the Feast of the Rose, in Destiny: Appetite, in The Gift, and in The Marriage of Feducci (where Feducci claims that she's just like him). Her confession two Hallowmases back added a lot of pathos to her character as well, but in a way that didn't contradict her surface-level image, in a way similar to Feducci's confession.
Her characterization in Sunless Skies is explicitly fake, she's intentionally disguising her nature, motives, and actions from everyone, including the player, and there are hints of the personality we know underneath. Her story can't be finished yet, so who knows how it will end, but so far she's been ruthlessly conniving for power and knowledge, leaving trails of corpses in her wake, and covering it up with a glamorous façade.

Her character in the election, in both personality and appearance, suggests a sort of trial-run for this disguise. It's not as complete, and she's not as comfortable in it, but she's clearly trying to come off as innocent and charming. Still, beyond the most superficial level, it's clear she's still the same character we know and love.

  • Still, that overtly sinister, monstrous aspect was something a lot of people really liked about her, and while being willing and able to disguise yourself so thoroughly, and to then try and bulldoze that disguise through people's objections in a city where everyone's already abjectly terrified of you is pretty interesting, in that it's exactly the kind of calculated image-control move that every candidate in the election made, it's not necessarily the kind of interesting that people found compelling about her in the first place.



    But if we are going to talk about villainy, explicit vs implicit villainy, and how that might interact with their changing characterizations and people's perceptions of them, I'd be happy to jump on board.

  • Coming back to Feducci then, I think a lot of people, again myself included, disagree with the idea that he's outwardly "villainous" at all, since almost everything he does is easily characterized as just part of his job. He's a spy for the Presbyter, who has a well-established interest in Hell, to the point that there's multiple stories across multiple games that take the time to explicitly spell that out for us. He spends time in Hell, helps with their revolution and uses the goodwill he's earned to get a position on the Ship of Lights. The SoL, which is at one point during Feducci's term as its captain crewed by captured London prisoners of war, is as we already know primarily assigned to the rivers of death, and traveling the lands around the Far Shore, so being its captain is massively useful intelligence-gathering. This is barely subtext. His mayorship of London was even explicitly sponsored by the Presbyterate. So it's very easy to look past the immediate appearance of Feducci's actions and see him as just a somewhat ruthless man doing a difficult job, just like every great game agent and a significant portion of the player base.

  • The Princess is also, from where I'm standing, incredibly sympathetic, with a complex and difficult relationship with her family and her country, conflicting motivations and desires, and a significant tragic element to what she does. But it's on a surface level much easier to disconnect her motivations and backstory (lonely and neglected among the enormous weight of history, given tremendous responsibility but no real power other than that which she carves out for herself, envious of the opportunity her older sister has to live freely and happily away from the palace and the Neath but afraid of ruining their relationship, worried about caring for and raising her own little sister because she's afraid no one else will, ashamed of how her family has to hide their faces and live in catacombs despite being raised on tales of how important and amazing they're supposed to be, alienated from almost everyone in the world by the people's fawning adoration and terror, her siblings' dismissal, and her mother's seemingly compete disinterest) and her actions (she takes red honey and manipulates people and schemes for power in order to make her mark on the world).

  • While the link is totally understandable, it's easier to dismiss off hand (why doesn't she just do something else!) than the link between Feducci's motivation (he's a spy who loves adventure and freedom and self-determination, who lives for the thrills and the chance of failure) and his actions (he goes on undercover spy missions, fights in revolutions, schemes to gain information, and tries daring if sometimes impossible plans). If someone's going to be obnoxious and small-minded, it's not unlikely that they would sort the Princess into a "sympathetic villain" box and Feducci into a "badass antihero" box, depending on what they think about their respective goals and means. That's a reductive reading of the characters, but it's not uncommon.

  • And let's not forget that, as millea wisely pointed out, Feducci's actions never do harm to the player without their consent, and he's outwardly friendly and jocular with them. Now, if your character, like mine, has a very different concept of harm and compassion than most people do, that's totally irrelevant, but it's clear from peoples' posts in this very thread, among others, that they view the Princess as an oppositional character who would willingly harm them and their friends, and Feducci as a more neutral character, someone more likely to harm people they don't care about than people they do.

  • How important are any of these points? What effect did they have on how people voted and how they interpret the characters, proportionately? I have no idea. The voting information isn't out, and we don't know how many supporters of each candidate backed what other candidates in the past. Plus the forums make up such a tiny portion of the player base that making assumptions about how people feel about the characters based on the posts on here is like judging the full body of media criticism based just on what the people in your film studies class think.

  • EDIT: More legible formatting.

  • edited by Gul al-Ahlaam on 7/5/2018

    --
    The Uncanny Hierophant.
    The Jewel-Eyed Prince.
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    Vryl
    Vryl
    Posts: 52

    7/2/2018
    I'm glad that the only sane choice won, considering the number of people willing to pretend that storylets showing what Slowcake and the Captivating Princess are were merely propaganda.

    --
    https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Vryl
    +9 link
    Passionario
    Passionario
    Posts: 777

    7/2/2018
    Absintheuse wrote:
    There's nothing contrary about the statistics, The Jovial Contrarian has won! He steps forward, offering the crowd a regal wave. Thundering roars of approval hail his victory. “Victory, then?” He nods down to the roaring crowd, “It was never in question, only the margin. London is in for a most exciting year.”

    From last year's announcement:
    Absintheuse wrote:
    Feducci claims victory with nearly half the vote! He steps forward, offering the crowd a regal wave. Thundering roars of approval hail his victory. "Victory, then?" He nods down to the roaring crowd, "It was never in question, only the margin. London is in for a most exciting year."

    Meet the new boss, same as old boss?

    --
    Passionario: Profile, Story, Ending
    Passion: Profile, Appearance
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    Dudebro Pyro
    Dudebro Pyro
    Posts: 765

    7/3/2018
    Anne Auclair wrote:

    This provides a nice bookend to Feducci's administration, come to think of it. It begins with him entering the Mayoral Manor while Sinning Jenny was still Mayor, insulting her administration, and questioning her taste in drapes. It ends with him spitefully blowing the Mayoral Mansion up, fully aware that he'll probably go down as one of the worst Mayor's in Fallen London's history, if not thee worst, and making Sinning Jenny look pretty awesome in comparison (she at least knew how to exit office graciously!).

    Despite my vehement opposition to Feducci last year (which you may or may not recall yourself), I have to say Feducci's departure felt less spiteful and more just him having more fun in his own way. He wanted to leave a mark, go out with a bang so to speak. He doesn't do "graciously", and that's just his character, not him throwing a tantrum or being a sore loser or anything. At least that's my impression.

    In view of this, I actually approve of his last deed as mayor. Perhaps because I didn't care for Jenny much at all. Either way, he went out with a bang indeed, and good for him I say.
    edited by Dudebro Pyro on 7/3/2018

    --
    Dudebro Pyro, eccentric scholar

    Spare Starveling Kitties always welcome. I collect them.
    For that matter, send me your unwanted cat boxes too.
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    Azothi
    Azothi
    Posts: 590

    7/3/2018
    The writers seem to have been planning Feducci's demolition of Blythenhale since the beginning of the second week, at least. Both the Captivating Princess and Mr. Slowcake have fine residences otherwise (the Shuttered Palace and the Brass Embassy), and they made the Jovial Contrarian describe his plans for setting up residence at Hangman's Arch for this purpose.

    The true crime here, though, is the collateral damage committed towards the cats of Blythenhale.
    edited by Azothi on 7/3/2018

    --
    Azoth I, the Emissary of Cardinals - A Paramount Presence (not currently accepting new Proteges)
    Away to where the Chain cannot bind us.
    Hesperidean.
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    Gul al-Ahlaam
    Gul al-Ahlaam
    Posts: 238

    7/3/2018
    I restrained myself from mentioning this before, but the posters that the Princess was using to plaster over the doors of Spite tenements were made of caprine vellum, previously featured as the note paper of choice for the Lighthearted Polymath during the Season of Skies. It's notable for its tendency to burn unquenchably and at the slightest provocation, and for it's rich fragrance. It's a shame we didn't win. It could have been such a pretty fire.

  • edited by Gul al-Ahlaam on 7/3/2018

    --
    The Uncanny Hierophant.
    The Jewel-Eyed Prince.
  • +8 link
    Anne Auclair
    Anne Auclair
    Posts: 2221

    7/4/2018
    Jolanda Swan wrote:
    But I am still looking forward for Lady Anne to snap out of it, lest we suspect she has been brainwashed in one of the many innovative ways FL has to offer. Come on, Anne. Come with us and let us be judgemental of everything the Contrarian does.

    The Contrarian hasn't been sworn in yet, so let me mourn my chosen candidate.

    When I say the Princess was too classically feminine for mob appeal, I mean she wasn't collectively given the "cool" factor that Feducci was given. Feducci was just as much a villain (actually, when you consider his foreign loyalties and awful plans, he was really much, much worse). But Feducci met this very physical, hyper-masculine image of charismatic leadership: he took things, he invited his followers to take things, he killed people, he shot objects out of the air with his pistol, he moved into the Mayoral manor before he was actually elected! Some people even consider his blowing up of the Mayoral residence to be kinda awesome. His very obviously malicious, petty personality was thus considered "cool."

    The Princess had a much different style of villainy. She's captivating, she entrances her victims; it's all very fey. She convinces people to let her do things to them, to willingly become her creatures and victims (until it's too late). When you attend a ball with her, she leads you around, ties a blind fold around your eyes, and whispers in your ear! You're totally in her power! It's just so subtle and magnificent, I love it. You want her to pet you on the head and tell you you've been good. And when she doesn't, you're so anguished that you failed to please her. Omigawd, you're so boring, you should die!

    It's just that this type of villainous character isn't popularly coded as a "cool leader" type. They're just a little too girly. Not active enough, not physical enough, not mature enough. She's as much a murdering, torturing monster as Feducci, but because Feducci is a warrior he gets something of a pass, while the Princess, because she is a princess, is perceived as a spoiled degenerate. But you know, at the end of the day Feducci needed her, because she was the one who held the love of the armies that Feducci would need to storm the Elder Continent for him. And Feducci, of all people, appreciates this: "I have seen monsters of the Zee devour triremes whole; I have seen the fires of Hell consume its own; but I have never found a wonder like her."

    But there's also far more to the Princess then a figure of monstrous femme fatale beauty and appetite (just as there's a little more to Feducci then the murdering, slaving, gambling con artist). When you peel back the Princess's captivating persona, what you find is an emotionally neglected young woman who feels herself stifled by her role and yearning for a way to break out of it.

    Captivating Princess wrote:
    "Honestly? I'm entirely bored. I am either fawned on or feared, or – worst of all – pawed at by the infatuated. Everyone believes they know me, because of my family."

    She smiles brightly. "Art is the purest form of self-expression, I'm told. I'll show everybody who I really am. Everyone will take part! London will never be the same, once it has seen its true self."

    And she works very hard to express herself. Grandiose plans for urban renewal, a public arts festival inviting all the great artists of the Neath, and a 24 hour long speech (!) laying the whole thing out in exacting detail. She wants Londoners to see her ideas and appreciate her for them, rather then simply appreciating her for just her beauty and her title. Underlying it all is her husband/ex-boyfriend, who she looks at and thinks "If he could do that, then I could do better." And she organizes the whole thing herself, no campaign manager. Her first real attempt to be anything other then monstrously enchanting.

    And it doesn't work and...I just think that's a little sad.

    And as for the Captivating Princess's hidden love of art as "the purest form of self-expression" - she got that from watching and spending time with her sister, the Recalcitrant Sculptress.
    .
    edited by Anne Auclair on 7/4/2018

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
    +8 link
    Akernis
    Akernis
    Posts: 266

    7/2/2018
    So, my candidate lost and I'm... not actually even bitter about that. What a pleasant surprise.
    I had a lot of fun with getting to know the Princess better, so I am quite delighted by the whole experience, even if she didn't win.


    Congratulations to everyone who who support the Contrarian, and thank you to everyone who made the election so much fun, both players here at the forum and staff at Failbetter smile

    Here's to another fun election next time.

    --
    Vena's profile - http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Akernis
    +8 link
    incerteza
    incerteza
    Posts: 103

    7/2/2018
    Anne Auclair wrote:
    The Princess was just a bit too privileged, refined, and classically feminine for mob appeal. *sighs*

    I thought these were the main reasons of her appeal. Just imagine someone less privileged, refined, and classically feminine - someone looking like the Implacable Detective, let's say - telling people "I murder and torture for kicks, yet I'm bored, go make an art-fest for me." Would she get a single vote?
    edited by incerteza on 7/2/2018
    +8 link
    Henricus
    Henricus
    Posts: 42

    7/2/2018
    Sara Hysaro wrote:
    While I'm a little disappointed we won't see more of Mr Slowcake or get to see just what the Princess had planned, I still had a nice laugh at just how she reacted to losing.


    Incidentally, here's the echo, for posterity: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Henricus?fromEchoId=14357105.

    --
    https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Henricus
    +8 link
    Anne Auclair
    Anne Auclair
    Posts: 2221

    7/2/2018
    btw, the last poll has also been posted.

    Final Poll wrote:
    In an astonishing turn of events, London has decided each of the candidates is worthy of being their second preference vote equally.


    ...

    Seriously?

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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    Jolanda Swan
    Jolanda Swan
    Posts: 1823

    7/2/2018
    Well, I know that I voted for Contrarian to be my first and second!
    And may I say, I smiled broadly at the result. And hope for a storylet where you can hunt and beat Feducci senseless for demolishing Jenny's residence.

    Also, since I am evidently a petty person, I am relieved to see him gone without any of his grand plans playing out. Leaves you some hope for the real world.

    --
    Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
    http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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    Dudebro Pyro
    Dudebro Pyro
    Posts: 765

    7/4/2018
    I think the thing about Feducci is that his demeanour and his villainy are rather separate. He's not evil because he runs a fighting ring society, shoots things out of the air, moves into the mayoral residence before being elected, etc. Yes, that makes him needlessly bombastic and a bit (or a lot) of a jerk, but not downright evil. No, he's evil because he competes in his own fighting society without disclosing that he's actually immortal, and because he's a foreign agent that worked as a slaver for hell. These things don't actually have any direct relation with his personality - a Great Game-ish spy could easily have the same accomplishments as him without having the same anything-goes-in-the-name-of-fun bombastic attitude. The latter is precisely why I opposed him vehemently during the election, not the former.

    And now that all's said and done? I can't say I minded him too much. Yes, having a PResbyterate spy as Mayor of London leaves a sour taste, but he didn't actually do anything of substance - from what I gather, even letting the marriage happen isn't something that will have tangible consequences for London any time soon.

    What I'm trying to say is that if you imagine Feducci as a native Londoner with no foreign connections or history of being a slaver or any of that baggage, but otherwise behaving exactly the same, then he's not "very obviously malicious" anymore. Some have accused the Contrarian this year of running a caricature of a political campaign, but if anything this applies to Feducci more. Meanwhile the Princess, if you take away all her strictly evil history and hobbies, is left as a bored aristocrat femme fatale, who's completely out of touch with the common folk and wants to organise an arts festival because it pleases her.

    I can honestly understand why people liked a political caricature running for fun and mayhem more than a snobby spoiled princess. I guess this is basically your point, but what I'm saying is that it's not necessarily got anything to do with their "brand of evil" or "masculine evil being more acceptable/likeable" - it's to do with their core personalities, where Feducci is very interesting if you take away all his evil background, while the Princess is only really interesting if you really consider her as a whole. People were willing to overlook Feducci's dubious past, but overlooking the Princess's less savoury aspects left a rather boring candidate, so only people who were wholly on board with everything she was and did actually voted for her.

    --
    Dudebro Pyro, eccentric scholar

    Spare Starveling Kitties always welcome. I collect them.
    For that matter, send me your unwanted cat boxes too.
    +8 link
    Jolanda Swan
    Jolanda Swan
    Posts: 1823

    7/4/2018
    Anne, your description is wonderful and spot-on. Of course Feducci's bluster is perceived more favorably the the Princess' wiles.

    On the other hand, Zack Oak is also right: Feducci's misdeeds were in ther core human greed and selfishness,and thus in the course of a story they could be forgiven - though it felt painful that such a demeanor was chosen over the essentially more liberal DTC. But the Princess was beyond Feducci's evil. She is inhuman, monstrous, tyrannical, a torturer; her campaign promise was to level a district where the most unfortunate take shelter, so she can make art to glorify her person.

    So while there is an element of hypermasciline vs hyperfeminine, you cannot say that it was the decisive factor. To measure that, you would have both Feducci and the Princess be torturers and monsters, and see what the people chose if they were forced to. In that case, I suspect most people would gravitate towards the fey Princess (at least they would suffer in beauty) than the ogrish behavior demonstrated by the duelist.

    --
    Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
    http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
    +7 link
    Gul al-Ahlaam
    Gul al-Ahlaam
    Posts: 238

    7/5/2018
    Jolanda Swan wrote:
    The Princess we saw in the elections could have been an enitrely different Princess that the one we have been meeting so far.

    As I've indicated that interpretation isn't necessarily accurate. She's the same character, just trying to put on a more friendly face so she can win the popular vote. In Sunless Skies, she disguises her wolfish cunning behind the appearance and behavior of a fairy-tale princess, making cooing noises at birds and fluttering her eyelashes while also taking brutal and calculated steps to advance her own agenda. In the election, she's doing the same thing.

    Of course she knows that people need doors. She's starting the fire at the only exit so they burn alive. Her disguise is so much more transparent and ill-fitting than in Sunless Skies (where it's hardly masterful) that it's amazing real people are falling for it. It demonstrates either a disposition to read her actions in as unflattering a light as possible (and we've already discussed why that might be) or simply a superficial reading of the text as presented.

    EDIT: It's especially interesting because the Contrarian is also presenting his radical, unpalatable ideas behind a veil of ignorance and pleasantries, all but abandoning his aggressive, belligerent persona and taking on an impersonal, pedantic, conservative one, and is much less obvious about it than the Princess is.

  • edited by Gul al-Ahlaam on 7/5/2018

    --
    The Uncanny Hierophant.
    The Jewel-Eyed Prince.
    +7 link
    Jolanda Swan
    Jolanda Swan
    Posts: 1823

    7/10/2018
    Ιs it a sign of the times that I was so touched by the strict imposition of normal working hours?

    --
    Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
    http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
    +7 link
    Anne Auclair
    Anne Auclair
    Posts: 2221

    7/2/2018
    It's rather telling that no one is booooing the Contrarian.

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
    +7 link
    Diptych
    Diptych
    Administrator
    Posts: 3882

    7/2/2018
    Passionario wrote:

    Meet the new boss, same as old boss?



    The Contrarian not being the stepping type, I'm going to assume that's entirely a copy/paste type of typo.

    Also, Feducci is clearly not to be trusted with real estate!

    --
    Diptych, the Emancipationist Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
    Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
    +7 link
    Anne Auclair
    Anne Auclair
    Posts: 2221

    7/2/2018
    Sir Frederick wrote:

    Also, Feducci is clearly not to be trusted with real estate!

    I suppose Feducci loses his security deposit?

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
    +7 link
    Lady Sapho Byron
    Lady Sapho Byron
    Posts: 806

    7/2/2018
    Sara Hysaro wrote:
    While I'm a little disappointed we won't see more of Mr Slowcake ...


    So to speak ...

    ;-P

    --
    http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Lady%20Sapho%20L%20Byron
    Fighting the Menace of Corsetry Since 1892.
    +7 link
    ChangelingChilde
    ChangelingChilde
    Posts: 232

    7/2/2018
    Good to see that the (mostly) sane and human candidate won this time.

    --
    DO you recall how the Hunger began?
    I'm sorry, my darling, I don't think I can!
    OUT past the High Wilderness and beyond
    I fear I've gone Seeking, for of Him I'm fond.
    --The Elfin Cannibal

    Seven scars, seven chains, a soul too stained for Hell, and seven sainted candles burning at the well.

    Gone to Grieve on the 17th day of the 7th month, 1897. Will be Vake-hunting next.
    +7 link
    incerteza
    incerteza
    Posts: 103

    7/3/2018
    a Nice Friend wrote:
    I doubt the Bazaar could be killed by any human-made bomb or cannon.

    But could it be exasperated to death? If so, we've elected the right man.

    We cannot literally burn the Bazaar, but maybe sick burns would work.
    edited by incerteza on 7/3/2018
    +6 link
    Gul al-Ahlaam
    Gul al-Ahlaam
    Posts: 238

    7/3/2018
    Some of us have businesses there.

  • Oh, I know quite well my dear. I'm only teasing. I often am.
    She probably just liked how they looked and smelled (not that she wouldn't have lit a match if she knew!).

    I suppose that could be so. It's always difficult to tell when the Princess' innocence comes off as malevolence, or when she's simply using the former to disguise the latter. I suppose it's kinder to give her the benefit of the doubt.
    But I am still looking forward for Lady Anne to snap out of it, lest we suspect she has been brainwashed in one of the many innovative ways FL has to offer. Come on, Anne. Come with us and let us be judgemental of everything the Contrarian does.

    You know, I think this election was the first time I shared a political position with anyone. And it was only a few layers of obfuscation removed from what I actually believe! What a beautiful moment. ;_;
    Hopefully before his term ends the Contrarian does one better than Feducci and blows up that hideous eyesore at the very heart of our long suffering metropolis...

    Whatever your beliefs about the Bazaar, I'm not about to stand here while you insult all standards of aesthetics and general good taste by calling it ugly.

    --
    The Uncanny Hierophant.
    The Jewel-Eyed Prince.
  • +6 link
    LukeFBG
    LukeFBG
    Posts: 708

    7/9/2018
    As a general PSA, the Contrarian's Opportunity Card is now live! Investigating him is echoed at the top of my profile.
    +6 link
    Anne Auclair
    Anne Auclair
    Posts: 2221

    7/9/2018
    I love that the Mayor is actually doing his job - albeit in classically Contrarian way. We've essentially elected for London to sit out dancing in order to non-stop argue with the Contrarian for the next year.

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
    +6 link
    Dudebro Pyro
    Dudebro Pyro
    Posts: 765

    7/5/2018
    I thought the Elections forum was literally a place for arguing about the elections.

    --
    Dudebro Pyro, eccentric scholar

    Spare Starveling Kitties always welcome. I collect them.
    For that matter, send me your unwanted cat boxes too.
    +6 link
    Anne Auclair
    Anne Auclair
    Posts: 2221

    7/5/2018
    millea wrote:
    To continue on the topic of their main vices, the big 'thing' that people mention while discussing Feducci's evils is him running a slaving ship. The disdain is entirely warranted - but we also have to remember that those actions were taken during a time as tumultous as war, and at the time he wasn't a citizen of London. His reasons for doing so aren't stated, perhaps he did it for entertainment, perhaps for a different reason altogether. Meanwhile, the Princess' red honey habit has no purpose or value to anyone besides her - she does it purely for the enjoyment, even when a less actively harmful and much easier to obtain alternative exists in the form of regular Prisoner's Honey.

    We actually know as little about the Princess's motivations for taking red honey as we do Feducci's for running the slave ship. The Princess's reasons aren't stated either. Perhaps the Princess takes red honey purely for entertainment or perhaps she has additional motivations. Perhaps she perceives red honey as benefiting London by bringing fantastical visions of far away things to the court, visions few will ever see directly: the sights of the interior Elder Continent, the islands of the Far East, the Sunlight of the Surface, the vast reaches of the High Wilderness... Perhaps she uses red honey for intelligence gathering, learning of the far world beyond the Palace and beyond London, in order to better govern her empire. Perhaps she uses it escape from a difficult family situation and an empty life that feels lacking in adventure and personnel fulfillment by diving into other people's minds. Perhaps she's such an addict that she couldn't even stop if she wanted to.

    This is sort of what I was talking about. Feducci's crimes are given the most sympathetic reading possible (we don't know his reasons, it was a time of war, etc.), while the Princess's crimes are given the most malign readings imaginable (she does it simply because she's a sadist).

    Of course the true answer is that both are equally culpable for slavery and torture when it suits their desires. But one gets the minimizing excuses, while the other doesn't...even though they're both doing the same thing.
    .
    edited by Anne Auclair on 7/5/2018

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
    +6 link
    Rhode Wardwado
    Rhode Wardwado
    Posts: 27

    7/4/2018
    A few people reported being able to access Feducci's "Mayor of London" card for a short period of time after going through the Election storylet where he blew up Blythenhale. I like to believe that immediately after the explosion, Feducci hosted one quick, final round of duels on the still-burning ruins of the building with whoever happened to be there before he bailed.

    --
    http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Rhode%20Wardwado
    +6 link
    millea
    millea
    Posts: 45

    7/5/2018
    ZackOak wrote:
    Masculine vs. Feminine perception with regards to the princess aren't THE deciding factor, which is not what people are suggesting. The point is that the role it played in how people perceive and understand both characters from inception to election is there, and worth examining in conjunction with WHY the two of them have such a disparate reception, on top of their other traits. I can't pack a 101 on feminist media analysis into a post about fictional characters in a game, that's a long discussion in and of itself. Actually getting into the perception of characters who perform feminine traits "wrong" in fandom (see: perception of Jenny vs. Princess) is a really fascinating topic, and one I'd be happy to have in its own thread, but it'd derail the topic pretty hard.

    I feel like you're making a very big and potentially controversial point but ultimately backing out from giving any sort of meat to back up what you're saying. Without including at least a link to feminist gender analysis theories, you're not providing a base from which to support your argument that gender is a factor.

    ZackOak wrote:
    Also, let's be clear, prior to the election, Feducci didn't *have* a core personality. He was a mysterious guy who couldn't die and watched fighting with terse approval or disapproval, and enslaved the regretful soldier for Reasons. Let's not get ahead of ourselves and pretend his core personality was well established before this.

    This is very untrue. Before the election, Feducci was already a pretty amusing character - the text focusing on his suspiciously rosy lips like a bad bodice-ripper novel or him bringing a horse and a lance to a duel have set the foundations for his personality.


    ---

    I feel like boiling the comparison between Feducci and the Princess' appeal to just their perceived gender traits is... ultimately missing the point, even if it isn't the crux of the argument. To add to that, the question of "why didn't Feducci supporters vote for the Princess" is hard to answer when we are seriously lacking any kind of data to work off.

    I agree with a lot of what Aniline said earlier and so I'll try not to repeat her arguments, adding some of my general thoughts instead. The level and type of villainy that the both of them represent is very different, and that plays a huge part in the reception of each of those characters.

    Painting the Princess as a femme fatale who got 'punished' for being so is completely ignoring the entire character of Sinning Jenny - she, too, wields power in a traditionally feminine way, having risen to power from a _brothel_. However, you can clearly see that Jenny has put in a noticeable amount of effort in addition to making use of her cunning to get to where she is now. The Princess - or at least, the new version of her, as she seems to have gotten a noticeable appearance/personality change - completely lacks that, which makes her femme fatale act very unconvincing. It appears that the reason why she draws people in is entirely supernatural, and her charm defies even in-universe logic.

    While both Feducci and the Princess are characters that act according to whimsy, the nature of that is once again, completely different. Unlike the Princess, Feducci is in many ways hindered by his antics - him being so bombastic, lively and excitable actively harms his persona as a withered tomb-colonist spy and he fails to achieve the goals he has set. The Princess, once again, is rarely allowed to fail and she never suffers the consequences of her actions.

    Feducci develops more of an actual relationship with the player character - he contacts us personally, talks to us, invites us to dinner; later on (although that's mayoral content) he meets up with us personally, gives us a silly friendship certificate. The Princess meanwhile never really gets close or personal with us and usually just takes and takes and takes, giving a clear feeling that everything she does is for an agenda. We get the chance to see a bit more of the Princess in the Gift - a story gated behind a fair amount of money, whereas you can experience Feducci in most without having to pay. That also colours the perspective of both candidates a lot.

    Another point is, many of Feducci's evils aren't really that impactful or visceral for players (the big outlier being slaving, and even then it's mentioned maybe twice and gated behind Fate) whereas the Princess's evils are both impactful and visceral for a lot of people: eat red honey and people scream at you to stop going through their heads. In fact, the Princess _actively_ harms the unsuspecting player without a word of warning, whereas Feducci will only agree to duelling you when you are ready.

    To continue on the topic of their main vices, the big 'thing' that people mention while discussing Feducci's evils is him running a slaving ship. The disdain is entirely warranted - but we also have to remember that those actions were taken during a time as tumultous as war, and at the time he wasn't a citizen of London. His reasons for doing so aren't stated, perhaps he did it for entertainment, perhaps for a different reason altogether. Meanwhile, the Princess' red honey habit has no purpose or value to anyone besides her - she does it purely for the enjoyment, even when a less actively harmful and much easier to obtain alternative exists in the form of regular Prisoner's Honey.

    --
    Elvira Blake, the Pariah's Doctor. ༺⚜️༻ Anne Meredith, the Disfigured Captain.
    +5 link
    Dudebro Pyro
    Dudebro Pyro
    Posts: 765

    7/5/2018
    Fair enough. I, for one, find arguments - even heated and passionate ones, as long as they remain civil and to the point - very friendly and fun, and I believe (or like to believe) I'm not alone in this, but I can see why you'd take a stance against that on the forums.

    Zack Oak wrote:

    I'm especially interested in your bringing up red honey[...] It clearly didn't begin with her, as evidenced by that and its presence outside London in games like Sunless Sea. It's definitely worth asking how the trade came to be and what role the current royal family plays in its distribution, along with the high society of London you find in the chambers of the heart

    Worth mentioning that there are literal red-honey-dens e.g. in Veilgarden. Or at least one. Where the only requirement for entry is a proper sum of money and a promise of secrecy (and the knowledge that it exists in the first place), and otherwise they're just open to the public. I'm not arguing for anything, just bringing up some info.

    Anne Auclaire wrote:

    We actually know as little about the Princess's motivations for taking red honey as we do Feducci's for running the slave ship. The Princess's reasons aren't stated either. Perhaps the Princess takes red honey purely for entertainment or perhaps she has additional motivations.

    Let's see:
    Perhaps she perceives red honey as benefiting London by bringing fantastical visions of far away things to the court, visions few will ever see directly: the sights of the interior Elder Continent, the islands of the Far East, the Sunlight of the Surface, the vast reaches of the High Wilderness...

    Perhaps she perceives that as benefiting London, but it's still basically entertainment. I don't necessarily agree with the arguments excusing Feducci's slaving past, but one could make some argument about being forced to do it. Your description basically claims "she's doing it because she likes the pretty sights, and thinks her seeing the pretty sights helps London". I highly, highly, highly doubt she would ever keep going if she saw the job as a chore that she had to do for the good of the city.
    Plus, how does her seeing those visions benefit London? Election aside, of course, since we're talking about the pasts and backgrounds.

    Perhaps she uses it escape from a difficult family situation and an empty life that feels lacking in adventure and personnel fulfillment by diving into other people's minds.
    Literally entertainment. "Perhaps Feducci took up whipping chained slaves for fun because he felt personally unfulfilled and had family issues."
    Perhaps she's such an addict that she couldn't even stop if she wanted to.
    Entertainment gone wrong, that she continues cultivating instead of trying to get help for. You're saying "she couldn't stop if she wanted to", but addict or no she clearly doesn't want to.
    Perhaps she uses red honey for intelligence gathering, learning of the far world beyond the Palace and beyond London, in order to better govern her empire.
    The only somewhat valid justification, even though it doesn't quite fit with her victim selection (surely it would be a whole lot more methodical, with spy agencies likely involved, if the purpose was to extract strategically useful memories; as opposed to the current scheme of attracting lovers she fancies).

    For the record, I don't think Feducci has any justification for what he did. He was clearly motivated by a never-ending bid for more power, or for lesser stuff simply by his idea of fun. But I don't think cheapening your (otherwise pretty good) arguments with wild conjectures that stretch plausibility is a good way to convince Feducci supporters of that.
    edited by Dudebro Pyro on 7/5/2018

    --
    Dudebro Pyro, eccentric scholar

    Spare Starveling Kitties always welcome. I collect them.
    For that matter, send me your unwanted cat boxes too.
    +5 link
    Anne Auclair
    Anne Auclair
    Posts: 2221

    7/5/2018
    Jolanda Swan wrote:
    The Princess we saw in the elections could have been an enitrely different Princess that the one we have been meeting so far.
    The Priness we knew was powerful, ruthless and very, very clever. The election Princess was childish, spoiled and had no idea of how people think (really? You do not know why doors are necessary?).
    The only glimpse of the Princess I knew came in other players' echoes, when she called them 'her creature'. Other than that, her mature charm was gone; only the caprice remained, and even that was diluted.

    Thinking about it, I just realized that all her really ditzy or "childish" actions were public actions. In private she's very commanding: "You're my creature", "Here's our Magna Carta", and "One day I will conquer a portion of the Unterzee and skin its inhabitants." Seeing as how those interactions where part of the group where the candidates revealed their true selves/agendas...

    And this did have one effect - it allowed people to argue she wasn't serious about some of her more overt evil deeds. Like, awwww, our Princess is blocking a tenement door with an extremely flammable poster - she probably just doesn't know any better. It worked on me and no one really caught on except Gul :P

    Jolanda Swan wrote:
    So no, it is not only a matter of feminine vs masculine villainy. If she was shown to be as conniving, as dangerous, as ruthless as we know her, she might have had a better chance. But a Princess who asks 'but why?' when told she needs a campaign manager, is no femme fatale.

    But she didn't need a campaign manager though... Her campaign was very well run, if a little whimsical. It involved, among other things, the mass coordination of body doubles. You never actually manage to upset her dignity after all.
    .
    edited by Anne Auclair on 7/5/2018

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
    +5 link
    Passionario
    Passionario
    Posts: 777

    7/6/2018
    Sir Frederick wrote:
    Yeah, the slaving. Also the gathering up legions of people who hero-worship him and leading them to their deaths. Then coming to London, gathering up every warrior he could find with a tentative grip on life, and made them fight to the death for his amusement.

    ...and now I will forever picture Feducci as an avatar of Odin.

    --
    Passionario: Profile, Story, Ending
    Passion: Profile, Appearance
    +5 link
    D'Angelique
    D'Angelique
    Posts: 2

    7/6/2018
    I met a lady in the meads,
    Full beautiful—a faery’s child,
    Her hair was long, her foot was light,
    And her eyes were wild.
    I saw pale kings and princes too,
    Pale warriors, death-pale were they all;
    They cried—‘La Belle Dame sans Merci
    Thee hath in thrall!’
    +5 link
    Anne Auclair
    Anne Auclair
    Posts: 2221

    7/3/2018
    Aniline wrote:
    Anne Auclair wrote:
    incerteza wrote:
    I thought these were the main reasons of her appeal. Just imagine someone less privileged, refined, and classically feminine - someone looking like the Implacable Detective, let's say - telling people "I murder and torture for kicks, yet I'm bored, go make an art-fest for me." Would she get a single vote?

    Mayor. Feducci. :P


    Some very important differences:

    You're stretching things quite a bit here.

    Particularly with these:

    Aniline wrote:
    - Neither of his two duelling clubs involved murder (killing of unwilling people) or torture (of anyone). The only questionable episode was dealing with the Drownie woman (but that wasn't for kicks -- he doesn't even see how the player character deals with her, if at all). In contrast, torturing and murdering people for kicks is all the Princess does (so far), and the only person she cares for is another murderer-torturer.

    Feducci asks you to murder someone permanently in an unwilling duel as part of the initiation. It's not really in his favor if he lacks the interest to follow up on whether you do it or not. It's actually rather typical of his style of doing things actually.

    Aniline wrote:
    - Feducci's contempt for humanity in general wasn't apparent during the election.

    He was outed as an unapologetic slaver during the election. Plus there's, you know, he's best known for running a duel to the death society while being incapable of actually dying. That's kind of against the spirit of things.

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
    +5 link
    Snowskeeper
    Snowskeeper
    Posts: 575

    7/3/2018
    Aniline wrote:

    - Neither of his two duelling clubs involved murder (killing of unwilling people)


    Feducci does not suffer permanent death. He does not tell opponents this. Doubtful he'd have many takers otherwise.

    - Most importantly, he has obvious and genuine respect for the player character that's acknowledged early in the character progression.


    So does the Princess, in places.

    - He actually plays as fair as possible in FL


    He established a dueling society which encourages members to end each other. He cannot be ended that way. He has killed many, many members. How, exactly, does that seem fair?

    I voted DTC last election, and my second choice would've been the Detective. But Feducci's campaign message was overall positive,


    In essence, it was 'let's blow up London society, leave everything else to chance, and see what happens.'

    --
    S.F., a midnight midnighter and invisible eminence. Impossible to locate them, personally, but there are dead drops and agents.
    +5 link
    Jolanda Swan
    Jolanda Swan
    Posts: 1823

    7/3/2018
    I must say, the elections truly rekindled my love of story which had been trapped in grinding for cider and making waves for so long now. For that, I would thank all my fellow forum goers who made the event so alive.

    But I am still looking forward for Lady Anne to snap out of it, lest we suspect she has been brainwashed in one of the many innovative ways FL has to offer. Come on, Anne. Come with us and let us be judgemental of everything the Contrarian does.

    --
    Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
    http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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    Frederick Metzengerstein
    Frederick Metzengerstein
    Posts: 69

    7/3/2018
    Hopefully before his term ends the Contrarian does one better than Feducci and blows up that hideous eyesore at the very heart of our long suffering metropolis...
    edited by Frederick Metzengerstein on 7/3/2018
    +5 link
    Lady Karnstein
    Lady Karnstein
    Posts: 384

    7/3/2018
    Jolanda Swan wrote:
    Oh, for shame, Lady Anne. Are you appropriating suffragist ideals to shame those who did not want Marquise Cthulhu de Sade for Mayor?


    You are surprised at this point? I am not. Seems typical of her behavior of late. Anne does seem...addled...by the Princess, doesn't she?


    Sinning Jenny is less feminine, but she won by a landslide and is very feminine (even dare I say, femme when she wishes to be) in so many feminine ways. So I doubt that was it.

    It must come back to that "Monster who almost seems to feed on suffering and wants to leave many in london homeless" thing that did her in. Not helped by her being an obvious poseur.

    --
    Lady Caroline Karnstein, The Moral Hedonist (Description)
    Infamous writer, artist, and courtesan. Unrepentant Invert. Hesperidean.
    Paramount Presence, Correspondent, Nocturnal. Poet Laureate of the Neath, Ambassador to Arbor
    +5 link
    Nagaretsu
    Nagaretsu
    Posts: 24

    7/2/2018
    Damn,I lost my bet. I guess threatening journalists and mocking lower and middle class doesn't work to get londoners approval.

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Nagaretsu

    Valor Darkwood http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Valor%20Darkwood
    +5 link
    Skinnyman
    Skinnyman
    Posts: 2267

    7/2/2018
    This is something...! Must say, even if I went with the Princess, I'm not bothered that the Contrarian won.

    Not sure why. My lack of time, different mechanics or choice of candidates?

    Heck, congratulations to the Contrarian! Or not!

    And thanks to FBG for being so bold and experiment with new thigs! Big Grin

    --
    ESs items and quality requirements sheet. Please check if there are errors or if something is missing
    Achievement list if you're feeling bored!
    I am accepting Plant battles, Neath's Mysteries card, Starveling Cats and boxed cats.
    No suppers, no second chances gain and no need to cure my menaces!
    +5 link
    Henricus
    Henricus
    Posts: 42

    7/2/2018
    Hmm. The Contrarian was already planning to continue using his campaign headquarters instead of Blythenhale. I wonder...

    --
    https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Henricus
    +5 link
    Sara Hysaro
    Sara Hysaro
    Moderator
    Posts: 4514

    7/2/2018
    While I'm a little disappointed we won't see more of Mr Slowcake or get to see just what the Princess had planned, I still had a nice laugh at just how she reacted to losing.

    --
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    +5 link
    Harry P.
    Harry P.
    Posts: 116

    7/2/2018
    The Jovial Contrarian won. What a delightful scene his inauguration was. There was even some fireworks at the end courtesy of the previous mayor. It certainly is fun being on the winning side. Especially when you take into consideration who lost in his place. May London survive til next year.

    Though I am curious. Does this mean the candidates' cards no longer show up?

    --
    Harry P.: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/HarryP22h
    A Magnanimous Gentleman Author with a tendency for melancholic monologues.
    Elizabeth K. Broker: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Elizabeth%20K%20Broker
    A Socially-Awkward Dueling Trickster with a thirst for vengeance and a soft spot for urchins.
    If you are ever in need of any assistance, do not hesitate to ask either of them. The second one is still finicky, though.
    +4 link
    Cooper
    Cooper
    Posts: 61

    7/2/2018
    ...

    The Work continues.

    --
    Padraig Cooper,
    Remorseful Opportunist. https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Padraig%20Cooper
    +4 link
    MadifyMarley
    MadifyMarley
    Posts: 8

    7/2/2018
    I was despairing of this election from the beginning. I thought for sure London wouldn't be able to resist electing the Captivating Princess. But, as a supporter of the Contrarian in the prior election, and a supporter of him in this one too, I am glad to see such a promising result.

    One can only hope he proves more effective than his previous office-holders. There is much more at stake this year.

    --
    Open for Social Actions. But not the bad ones, please. I need friends.
    +4 link
    Sara Hysaro
    Sara Hysaro
    Moderator
    Posts: 4514

    7/2/2018
    Lady Sapho Byron wrote:
    Sara Hysaro wrote:
    While I'm a little disappointed we won't see more of Mr Slowcake ...


    So to speak ...

    ;-P


    I'm quite convinced watching the puppet dance would have been fairly amusing, and peeking into some Hellish intrigue would have been neat. We pretty much know what we're getting with the Jovial Contrarian here, so while I'm sure the story will still be good I'm not quite as invested in it as I was for the other two. Hopefully we'll see Mr Pages get involved? That'd be fun.

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro
    Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.

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    +4 link
    Jolanda Swan
    Jolanda Swan
    Posts: 1823

    7/3/2018
    Feducci was exposed as a slaver, a fraud and someone who had absolutely no respect for human life very early on in the elections.

    His lack of a platform was also shown clearly. We are not talking about hidden or secret lore here.


    For the remainder of his term, he was selling useless titles and simply making a ruckus. Finally, in the 'Marriage of Feducci' he directly plans to plunge London into a war with his country, a war that will claim countless lives. The city and everyone in it is a sacrifice he is eager to make.

    He is a very realistic character, and his veneer of civility and charm was very thin.

    --
    Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
    http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
    +4 link
    Aniline
    Aniline
    Posts: 144

    7/3/2018
    Anne Auclair wrote:
    incerteza wrote:
    I thought these were the main reasons of her appeal. Just imagine someone less privileged, refined, and classically feminine - someone looking like the Implacable Detective, let's say - telling people "I murder and torture for kicks, yet I'm bored, go make an art-fest for me." Would she get a single vote?

    Mayor. Feducci. :P


    Some very important differences:

    - Feducci is arguably a hero and has arguably done great things. His boredom was promising. He was supposed to be entertaining us.


    - Neither of his two duelling clubs involved murder (killing of unwilling people) or torture (of anyone). The only questionable episode was dealing with the Drownie woman (but that wasn't for kicks -- he doesn't even see how the player character deals with her, if at all). In contrast, torturing and murdering people for kicks is all the Princess does (so far), and the only person she cares for is another murderer-torturer.

    - Feducci's contempt for humanity in general wasn't apparent during the election.

    - Most importantly, he has obvious and genuine respect for the player character that's acknowledged early in the character progression.

    - He actually plays as fair as possible in FL -- he's not just beatable but 100% beatable in a free story if the player is willing to put in the effort. (In contrast, I was legit angry about The Gift -- not only my character had to behave stupidly to move forward with the story, she couldn't even escape and had to be rescued by another villain.)

    I voted DTC last election, and my second choice would've been the Detective. But Feducci's campaign message was overall positive, and I could even see myself supporting his actual plan of "do nothing, then blow up Blythenhale" (btw, I hope the cats are safe) against worse alternatives.
    (Not now, though, now he's just one half of a Silicon Valley power couple.)

    --
    Melantha Prescott, the Suspicious Statistician. "3% failure chances crop up nine times out of ten."
    Francesca Ayers-Kernighan, bat-hunter, cat-whisperer
    +4 link
    Gul al-Ahlaam
    Gul al-Ahlaam
    Posts: 238

    7/2/2018
    While I really was hoping for someone a little more exciting than our august statesman, I must say he's not a bad choice. I campaigned quite aggressively for him in 1894, and I'm reassured to find that a woman whom I very much respect is still supporting him after the events of that campaign. If her influence persists through his term of office, he might end up a very entertaining mayor indeed.


  • --
    The Uncanny Hierophant.
    The Jewel-Eyed Prince.
  • +4 link
    Anne Auclair
    Anne Auclair
    Posts: 2221

    7/2/2018
    The Ambivalent Dynamo wrote:
    It's a pity the Captivating Princess didn't win, but after hearing her reaction I think it might be 'better' for the Contrarian to run as Mayor than imagining what she had in store for London.

    Oh come on, it would have been hilarious to watch her read a victory speech for hours and hours until the crowd wandered off bored :P

    Though worth considering, if the speech was that long it must have had a lot of content and planning discussions. Which hints at why she's so unhappy right now; it really sucks when you work out your ideas in extensive detail and people don't want to hear them. Stinging all the more, no one has ever appreciated her ideas.

    Finally, adding insult to injury, London elected Feducci even though his manifesto amounted to a bunch of confused chalkboard scribbles. That seems a pretty unfair, as the Princess really did have an excellent platform.

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
    +4 link
    Snowskeeper
    Snowskeeper
    Posts: 575

    7/2/2018
    We doubt he'll be the worst thing we ever see in office.

    --
    S.F., a midnight midnighter and invisible eminence. Impossible to locate them, personally, but there are dead drops and agents.
    +4 link
    Lady Karnstein
    Lady Karnstein
    Posts: 384

    7/2/2018
    That is two out of three years Caroline's candidate has won (Sinning Jenny, Implacable Detective, Jovial Contrarian). Caroline is relieved, and will be bringing her lovers to a special party tonight, if they wish to go. Bring honey, wine, shackles and rubber suits. After the last fiasco, this almost makes her have enough faith to go to the church for reasons beyond defiling someone(s) in the Sacristy. Eh, probably not.

    --
    Lady Caroline Karnstein, The Moral Hedonist (Description)
    Infamous writer, artist, and courtesan. Unrepentant Invert. Hesperidean.
    Paramount Presence, Correspondent, Nocturnal. Poet Laureate of the Neath, Ambassador to Arbor
    +4 link
    Chris Gardiner
    Chris Gardiner
    Administrator
    Posts: 540

    7/10/2018
    We try to be very sparing with location-based cards these days. They easily cause confusion and frustration.
    +4 link
    Snowskeeper
    Snowskeeper
    Posts: 575

    7/6/2018
    To emphasize: several of the people he recruited seem to be in vulnerable states of mind when you encounter them. At least one of them is still reeling from the death of a loved one. It's implied that Feducci is explicitly preying on vulnerable individuals because he knows they're more likely to be willing to die permanently, and therefore more likely to help him indulge what is essentially a risk-free hobby for him.

    Would argue that qualifies as abuse of vulnerable individuals on a similar, if perhaps slightly milder, level as what the Princess was doing. Certainly it is abuse of prestige and social position, although in his case these are due to his status as master of the fight clubs of London (and now his mayoral status, I guess).
    edited by Snowskeeper on 7/6/2018

    --
    S.F., a midnight midnighter and invisible eminence. Impossible to locate them, personally, but there are dead drops and agents.
    +4 link
    Madison Everett
    Madison Everett
    Posts: 9

    7/5/2018
    I've found this thread and the arguments in it to be quite interesting, so to begin with I'd like to thank you all for sparking such an interesting conversation, good points have been raised all around. However, there is something that's been troubling me as we've attempted to explain the actions of the Captivating Princess. As of the moment, her actions during the storylet where you share honey with her during the Feast of the Exceptional Rose have been glossed over for the most part. As such, I shall raise a point that we need to address if we wish to understand the Captivating Princess in her entirety. Just in case you haven't seen it, here's the text for the storylet I am referring to.

    "A delightful dream"

    She is charming. She finds you charming. Would you care to share a little honey after the dessert? You would? Splendid.
    Envious eyes and three chaperones follow your departure to a private chamber. You share a dream of bright skies, sunlight and endless lush grass. She whispers in your ear. "There are other honeys," she says. "Are you the one who will share them with me?" Her eyes gleam red, here in the field you dream together. Something terrifying has leached into the air. But she is mesmerising.
    You wake in Watchmaker's Hill. The air of your thoughts is clouded deep red. There is a taste like blood in your mouth. The Princess is gone.


    To be candid, I find the implications of her actions in this storylet are nothing short of horrifying. The Princess spikes your honey with Gaoler's Honey, she essentially roofies the player. By doing this, she tricks you into violating the mind of another, leafing through their memories like pages in a book. If we are to excuse the Princess for using Red Honey herself, justifying it by saying that that she has her own reasons just as Feducci has his for being a slave trader during the war with Hell, then we must evaluate her actions here in themselves without the Honey.

    Removing Red Honey from the equation as it is just the means she uses, we are left with the fact that she violates the player's consent, she does not even consider it a real factor. In the past, I have always felt that this fact has been downplayed or ignored by many in the community, whether they are fans of the Captivating Princess or not, and I think this is a major issue. I believe that if the Captivating Princess was male, if she was the Captivating Prince, this would not be overlooked. In fact, I think far more people would be horrified and outraged by this storylet. But this should not be true, no matter the Captivating Princess' gender, no matter her reasons, no matter how the view of her character is shifted, I cannot in good conscience, nor should anyone else be able to, excuse what she does in this storylet. Even if we ignore the terrifying nature of the substance used, we are still left with an act that makes me feel sick to my stomach.

    If one wants to understand the Captivating Princess, the true nature of her character, or even why some individuals such as myself were so against voting for her in the Mayoral Election, one only needs to look as far as this story to find the answers. Thank you for your time.

    --
    Madison Everett. One who dares to learn the secrets of the gods.

    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Madison%20Everett?fromEcho=0
    +4 link
    The Curious Watcher
    The Curious Watcher
    Posts: 340

    7/4/2018
    I wish Mr Slowcake would have won...it would have made for an interesting year at least. Now we have the typical Anarchist vs. Master conflict that multiple stories have covered at length to death. I can't even see the Jovial Contrarian making lasting change since his mission statement is clearly at odds with the Masters', but I digress. If there's any city that would elect literally Hell to the position of mayor, then it would be Fallen London.

    Enjoy your victory while it lasts, Contrarians, as it is fleeting. I would be impressed if a Contrarian of all people managed to affect more change than the other two.

    --
    The Thirteenth Master of the Bazaar:
    https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/The%20Thirteenth%20Master%20of%20the%20Bazaar
    The Silent Vake Hunter: GONE NORTH
    The Ravenous Wanderer:
    https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/The%20Ravenous%20Wanderer
    The Melancholic End-Bringer:
    https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/The%20Melancholic%20End-Bringer
    The Lethal Nightmare:
    https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/The%20Lethal%20Nightmare
    +4 link
    Zack Oak
    Zack Oak
    Posts: 205

    7/4/2018
    I'm going to also have to agree with Anne and Snowskeeper. Handwaving Feducci while moralizing about the Princess rings pretty hollow, and the point about classically feminine characters' reception by fandom is worth looking at.

    Also, let's be clear, prior to the election, Feducci didn't *have* a core personality. He was a mysterious guy who couldn't die and watched fighting with terse approval or disapproval, and enslaved the regretful soldier for Reasons. Let's not get ahead of ourselves and pretend his core personality was well established before this.
    edited by ZackOak on 7/4/2018

    --
    Roland Banning, The Ambitious Operative (Profile)
    Tumblr RP Account
    Ask me about the Delicious Friends RP group!
    Open for social actions (no cats or photographers, please. Currently taking a break from K&C.)
    +3 link
    Gul al-Ahlaam
    Gul al-Ahlaam
    Posts: 238

    7/4/2018
    Aniline wrote:
    But sure, let's pretend there's no difference between "you can be gods" and "you can be a steak at a royal dinner, choose rare or well-done" and that the playerbase who overwhelmingly voted Jenny didn't want a guuuuuurl in office.

  • She's not saying that you didn't want a woman in office, she's saying that female villains and female-coded villainy is judged far more harshly than male villains and male-coded villainy, which is true. Both members of the royal couple get plenty of hate, but only Feducci tends to get the kind of elaborate and nonsensical justifications for his behavior that you provided throughout your post.

    --
    The Uncanny Hierophant.
    The Jewel-Eyed Prince.
  • +3 link
    Gillsing
    Gillsing
    Posts: 1207

    7/4/2018
    Gul al-Ahlaam wrote:
    Both members of the royal couple get plenty of hate, but only Feducci tends to get the kind of elaborate and nonsensical justifications for his behavior that you provided throughout your post.

    Your wording seems to imply that they both get roughly equal amounts of hate, and that the main difference lies in the defence that one of them receives from his supporters. If that is true, then isn't that on the Princess' supporters? Wouldn't it be their job to make up elaborate and nonsensical justifications for her behavior, so that she isn't 'judged far more harshly'? I suppose that they must now feel anguished that they failed to defend her. 'Omigawd, they're so ineffectual, they should die!'

    I suppose one reason the Princess didn't win the election could be that she seemed to have a knack for making people feel bad. And people who feel bad might not be very good support, or might choose to support someone else. I don't think Feducci made his supporters feel bad. His platform seemed quite inclusive, while the Princess' platform seemed more exclusive. Exclusivity is a desired trait in many cases, but not when it comes to democratic elections.
    +3 link
    millea
    millea
    Posts: 45

    7/5/2018
    ZackOak wrote:
    While I appreciate that you're interested in learning more about how gender presentation is a factor in how characters are perceived, I made it pretty clear that this is a large topic in and of itself. If you would like me to help you out with this, I'd be happy to DM you some resources on the subject, but you'll have to forgive me for not going into this with debate notes and links. I didn't think it was necessary to demonstrate that sexism and bias exists.

    I am not arguing against the existence of sexism in the world, please don't misunderstand me. But I feel like if you're unwilling to engage in discussion for the issue you mention nor prove it exists in this context, what is the point of bringing it up? It's just bait and switch.

    Anne Auclair wrote:
    This is sort of what I was talking about. Feducci's crimes are given the most sympathetic reading possible (we don't know his reasons, it was a time of war, etc.), while the Princess's crimes are given the most malign readings imaginable (she does it simply because she's a sadist).

    I feel like comparing what I said - "we don't know whether Feducci enjoyed slaving or not" to the increasingly unlikely and headcanony explanations you are thinking up for the Princess is a bit... strange? Nobody here is giving Feducci a dark and tragic past just for the sake of making him more likeable to the public - most of his fans take what he does at face value and like him for that, whereas it seems like you have to imagine a lot to make the Princess likable.

    --
    Elvira Blake, the Pariah's Doctor. ༺⚜️༻ Anne Meredith, the Disfigured Captain.
    +3 link
    Diptych
    Diptych
    Administrator
    Posts: 3882

    7/5/2018
    I must say, this is a fascinating discussion. Certainly, both the Princess and Feducci indulged in what might be described as the typical excesses of their rank - extravagant parties, drink and drugs, hunting, dueling, dancing, mounting inadvisable campaigns at tremendous public expense, and getting countless people killed. The precise details might differ, but I can't think of any evil one has done that the other can't match. And yet Feducci's braggartry and bluster seems more popular than the Princess's. Perhaps by virtue of it being visibly, violently masculine - perhaps not.

    --
    Diptych, the Emancipationist Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
    Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
    +3 link
    Anne Auclair
    Anne Auclair
    Posts: 2221

    7/5/2018
    Huh, I've always interpreted that as the player "agreeing" to the horrible proposal and then waking up with your memory blanked. As in, she doesn't slip it to you on the sly like some date rape drug, she outright proposes you take it and then gets you to do so by being so irresistible. Something terrifying has leached into the air. But she is mesmerising.

    I don't think this is any better, just different (instead of being secretly drugged you're essentially being mind-controlled - like a rodent looking into the eyes of a snake).
    .
    edited by Anne Auclair on 7/5/2018

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
    +3 link
    Sara Hysaro
    Sara Hysaro
    Moderator
    Posts: 4514

    7/5/2018
    They didn't completely ignore that element for her campaign, either - her promise to show London her true self was very ominous. Which, of course, was very compelling to me; I've always been a fan of horror. Feducci just wasn't my sort of character.

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro
    Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.

    Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
    +3 link
    Jolanda Swan
    Jolanda Swan
    Posts: 1823

    7/5/2018
    The Princess we saw in the elections could have been an enitrely different Princess that the one we have been meeting so far.
    The Priness we knew was powerful, ruthless and very, very clever. The election Princess was childish, spoiled and had no idea of how people think (really? You do not know why doors are necessary?).
    The only glimpse of the Princess I knew came in other players' echoes, when she called them 'her creature'. Other than that, her mature charm was gone; only the caprice remained, and even that was diluted.

    I could see how one could vote for Fedducci, even if Joland did not; but while many people are drawn to danger, male or female, few are drawn to silliness.


    So no, it is not only a matter of feminine vs masculine villainy. If she was shown to be as conniving, as dangerous, as ruthless as we know her, she might have had a better chance. But a Princess who asks 'but why?' when told she needs a campaign manager, is no femme fatale. She displayed the naivete of Marie-Antoinette, and we all know how well that one went.
    edited by Jolanda Swan on 7/5/2018

    --
    Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
    http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
    +3 link
    Passionario
    Passionario
    Posts: 777

    7/5/2018
    The Princess is a 34-year old woman who looks like a 18-year old girl, talks like a 5-year old child, and acts like a 55-year old man accustomed a position of wealth and power...

    ...she's pretty much Alia Atreides, isn't she?

    --
    Passionario: Profile, Story, Ending
    Passion: Profile, Appearance
    +3 link
    Jolanda Swan
    Jolanda Swan
    Posts: 1823

    7/6/2018
    This poem describes the pre-election Princess perfectly.

    --
    Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
    http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
    +3 link
    Gillsing
    Gillsing
    Posts: 1207

    7/5/2018
    Gul al-Ahlaam wrote:
    She's the same character, just trying to put on a more friendly face so she can win the popular vote.
    Surely not? She might be the same character, but if she was earnestly trying to win the popular vote, she wouldn't have stepped all over the lower classes by planning to ban journalists (one of her channels of communication with said lower classes) or put up posters, flammable or otherwise, over doorways. If she was truly a manipulative mastermind and wanted to win the popular vote, she would've found ways to appeal to the lower classes, and avoided saying or doing anything like in those two examples. Meet the people, kiss their babies. Well, she did throw out money into the streets, but apparently that mainly caused riots. Maybe she should have bribed the Failbetter Games writing staff to have that turn out better?

    And I didn't see any of those coins! Really, if she wanted to win the election by spreading wealth, she should have spread some to me. It would probably have made me feel obligated to return the favour by convincing my 'creatures' to vote for her. After all, that's why I voted for Sinning Jenny. Every Feast of the Exceptional Rose she handles roughly a quarter of my seasonal opportunities. That's not nothing. All the Captivating Princess ever did was giving me a mildly interesting experience involving some kind of 'other honey'. And that was only interesting the first time. Every feast after that one she was best avoided.

    And her jar of bees does not compare to the helmet and lance I got from Feducci. Not even.

    ... Elderberries!
    +3 link
    Anne Auclair
    Anne Auclair
    Posts: 2221

    7/5/2018
    Madison Everett wrote:
    What he has done gives us absolutely no insight into the actions of the Captivating Princess...

    It kind of does actually, as both Feducci and the Princess are pretty explicit that they consider each other soulmates.

    Feducci on the Princess wrote:
    "I have seen monsters of the Zee devour triremes whole; I have seen the fires of Hell consume its own; but I have never found a wonder like her. At long and happy last, I have met someone like myself."

    The Princess on Feducci wrote:
    "I have never found a better partner to play with. He is capable. He is so... willing. There is nothing we cannot – and will not – do together."

    They're the same! They say as much! And they totally approve of one another because of this mutual likeness!

    The Princess's red honey drinking? Feducci is totally cool with it. Because why wouldn't he be? It's no worse then what he's done.

    I don't see this as off topic - this was my original topic.

    btw, the wedding is actually kinda horrifying when you stop to think about it - the two of them teaming up :P
    edited by Anne Auclair on 7/5/2018

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
    +3 link
    Skinnyman
    Skinnyman
    Posts: 2267

    7/2/2018
    That b____y Amanuensis popped for the 4th time in less than 24 hours and I didn't even flip cards like crazy.
    You should come when people need you, not when you need the people! Hell with these Devils!

    --
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    I am accepting Plant battles, Neath's Mysteries card, Starveling Cats and boxed cats.
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    +3 link
    Blaine Davidson
    Blaine Davidson
    Posts: 396

    7/2/2018
    It is so nice to finally support a winner for once.

    I hope I chose correctly though, let's see what the Contrarian has in store.

    --
    Blaine Davidson, a reserved and sensible woman with a fondness of collecting rarities.
    +3 link
    Jolanda Swan
    Jolanda Swan
    Posts: 1823

    7/2/2018
    It's all right. We are happy we won't see what the Princess had in store.
    Slowcake woud not have made any visible difference, but in a role-playing sense he would have made the devils' job easier.

    In any case, more revolutionary favors to use in court ballets. And probably Constables.

    --
    Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
    http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
    +3 link
    incerteza
    incerteza
    Posts: 103

    7/2/2018
    As far as I remember, last year FBG posted the percentages of votes for each candidate. Could you please post them this year, too, if possible?
    (I promise I'm just a curious nerd and not a devil who failed to collect his data)
    +3 link
    Tsar Koschei
    Tsar Koschei
    Posts: 803

    7/2/2018
    While I would have very much liked to see Mr Slowcake become mayor, we all know he's the real winner here anyway.

    --
    https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Tsar%20Koschei

    Sanguine Ribbon Society tournament champion.

    No plant battles, loitering, coffee at Caligula's or Affluent Photographer, please.
    +2 link
    The Ambivalent Dynamo
    The Ambivalent Dynamo
    Posts: 42

    7/2/2018
    It's a pity the Captivating Princess didn't win, but after hearing her reaction I think it might be 'better' for the Contrarian to run as Mayor than imagining what she had in store for London.

    --
    https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/The%20Ambivalent%20Dynamo Happy to take most social actions except plant-related ones. Don't hesitate to send one.
    +2 link
    Kylestien
    Kylestien
    Posts: 768

    7/2/2018
    Ah much as I voted for the Princess, it is probably for the best. Can you imagine what the mayoral story would have been if you already had The Marriage of Fedduchi and had either married or divorced them?

    --
    I will accept all actions, though I hold the right to refuse for my own reasons. However, if you explain WHY you send me a harmful action like Loitering or Dantes,And I feel the reason good, I will consider it more. https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Kylestien

    Paramount Presense. Any lesson you desire to learn, I shall impart it. (:
    +2 link
    Wilhelm Leibniz III
    Wilhelm Leibniz III
    Posts: 63

    7/2/2018
    Contrarian eh? How boring. The streak dies this year then.

    --
    Wilhelm Leibniz III, Glassman, Hearts Desire
    +2 link
    Gillsing
    Gillsing
    Posts: 1207

    7/2/2018
    Two weeks ago, when I first read all the comments in favour of the Contrarian, I figured I'd vote for anyone but him, just to be contrarian. But his idea of 'dismantling the tools' by attaching them to the Mayor's Office turned me around (after I'd read the echoes of others). And I didn't even think he'd win, what with both the Princess and Mr Slowcake being more 'Fallen London' than the Contrarian. But here we are, with me on the winning side for a third time, and my pet election theory not holding up.


    Anne Auclair wrote:
    btw, the last poll has also been posted.

    Final Poll wrote:
    In an astonishing turn of events, London has decided each of the candidates is worthy of being their second preference vote equally.


    ...

    Seriously?


    Well, they were all my second choice this time, so that makes perfect sense to me.

    Anne Auclair wrote:
    You know, for some reason I can't help but feel that Mayor Feducci's term was not the brilliant success that he hoped it would be.

    It was a brilliant success for me, and that's really what counts. Heaps of delicious favours at the risk of a menace which I usually have trouble building up in a profitable way, getting me stuck in the Counting the Days cycle.
    +2 link
    Catherine Raymond
    Catherine Raymond
    Posts: 2769

    7/2/2018
    Μαρσ wrote:
    Harry P. wrote:
    Though I am curious. Does this mean the candidates' cards no longer show up?


    Yesterday I managed to get the cards of all candidates, the Amanuensis, and Feducci at the same time. It looked so nice that I decided to stop drawing card for a day. I can now confirm that the cards of all the candidates are gone.

    But I am not sure that all that should be changed is changed. The election 1896 storylet with all its branches is left unchanged, which means that I can still perform Flash Lays for Reputation, and still use Reputation to switch or advance my career, or switch the candidate that I support. (I hope FBG saved the results at one moment otherwise this is going to mess with their numbers.)

    I also find it a bit peculiar that the Feducci card is still around: I can be invited to Blythenhales possibly illegal gambling hall after it has exploded.


    I just checked, and the "Election 1896" storylet with all its branches is now gone. The "Electoral Opportunism" storylet and branches are still there, probably to allow people to turn in whatever Reputation they still have.

    --
    Cathy Raymond
    http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355

    Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
    +2 link
    DeserterKalak
    DeserterKalak
    Posts: 96

    7/2/2018
    Well, my guy won. Hooray, I suppose.

    I still maintain he was the least horrible person running, and decoupling the constables from the Ministry is a fine plan, but he's only doing it to deliberate hobble the constables and handicap them with his leadership. Hopefully we'll have some way to mitigate his terrible plans, so they actually work as advertised.

    --
    https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/DeserterKalak
    +2 link
    Snowskeeper
    Snowskeeper
    Posts: 575

    7/4/2018
    I'll show everybody who I really am.


    Burning down Spite would do that.

    --
    S.F., a midnight midnighter and invisible eminence. Impossible to locate them, personally, but there are dead drops and agents.
    +2 link
    Anne Auclair
    Anne Auclair
    Posts: 2221

    7/6/2018
    eaglewiz wrote:
    \tl;dr - Feducci's crimes stopped short of him being an abuser...

    Slavery.

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
    +2 link
    Anne Auclair
    Anne Auclair
    Posts: 2221

    11/6/2018
    For me the Arbor was primarily a reminder of how much we missed out in not getting the Princess upset

    Her intention was to literally bring dreams to London!

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
    +2 link
    Sara Hysaro
    Sara Hysaro
    Moderator
    Posts: 4514

    7/5/2018
    You can have a friendly debate, and you can discuss the election. Once it turns into an argument, however, it stops being friendly and fun.

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro
    Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.

    Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
    +2 link
    Mulligan
    Mulligan
    Posts: 128

    7/5/2018
    Though I'm a little late to the party, I thought I'd just pop in to say that I, personally, am very happy that the Jovial Contrarian won. Not necessarily because I agree with his politics, but because he seems like a really nice person based on the information I've seen around. Even if he is a contrarian, a position which can become quite grating for a lot of people, I get the feeling that he takes that role because he wants to encourage a greater level of thought and consideration.

    Of course, I missed the first election so there might be something I'm missing but otherwise I believe that he'll make a rather nice mayor even if he isn't able to accomplish much due to the Masters interference.

    --
    Jean Morel, waiting for December.
    More than happy to help with menaces.
    Licentiate for hire, will murder for Rostygold.
    +2 link
    Kukapetal
    Kukapetal
    Posts: 1454

    7/5/2018
    Feducci was a "fun" evil candidate, the Princess was a "creepy" evil candidate. That's the difference.
    +2 link
    Anne Auclair
    Anne Auclair
    Posts: 2221

    7/5/2018
    Madison Everett wrote:
    I may be something of a stickler, but pressuring someone into doing something using your influence, that still leads us back to the same issue, consent. She is mesmerising, she makes a flat refusal become unthinkable.

    Coming back round to Feducci, none of his slaves consented to be whipped by him or chained to an oar. The only difference is that he never actually enslaves the player, he just enslaved other people. That's why I consider them morally identical. Going further, Feducci at first appears to get consent for his duels to the death, but he doesn't tell people that he himself can't actually die...which kind of makes said consent rather empty, as he's not honestly telling people what's about to happen when they face him. He's tricking people.

    I don't think I've ever minimized how much of a nightmare her Royal Highness is.

    Madison Everett wrote:

    Edit: Was a bit late and didn't see your edit, thank you for clarifying your view of this.

    I initially thought putting agreement in quotes made it clear - but then I realized "wait, I should probably be more explicit that you're being mind zapped."
    .
    edited by Anne Auclair on 7/5/2018

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
    +2 link
    Snowskeeper
    Snowskeeper
    Posts: 575

    7/5/2018
    Jolanda Swan wrote:
    The Princess we saw in the elections could have been an enitrely different Princess that the one we have been meeting so far.
    The Priness we knew was powerful, ruthless and very, very clever. The election Princess was childish, spoiled and had no idea of how people think (really? You do not know why doors are necessary?).



    The impression I got from the get go with that was that she was deliberately sealing the door shut. I haven't played through her storyline in Sunless Skies, so if that shows differently then I'll defer to that, but given--as Gul pointed out--that these posters were incendiary devices, I don't think that's necessarily a broken take.
    edited by Snowskeeper on 7/6/2018

    --
    S.F., a midnight midnighter and invisible eminence. Impossible to locate them, personally, but there are dead drops and agents.
    +2 link
    Zack Oak
    Zack Oak
    Posts: 205

    7/5/2018
    Masculine vs. Feminine perception with regards to the princess aren't THE deciding factor, which is not what people are suggesting. The point is that the role it played in how people perceive and understand both characters from inception to election is there, and worth examining in conjunction with WHY the two of them have such a disparate reception, on top of their other traits. I can't pack a 101 on feminist media analysis into a post about fictional characters in a game, that's a long discussion in and of itself. Actually getting into the perception of characters who perform feminine traits "wrong" in fandom (see: perception of Jenny vs. Princess) is a really fascinating topic, and one I'd be happy to have in its own thread, but it'd derail the topic pretty hard.

    It IS good to talk about how it plays a factor, alongside other traits. It's certainly not the DECIDING factor, and I feel like it's incorrect at best, or disingenuous at worst to assume that's what people are saying when they talk about it. It's also not worth it to be outright defensive over it either, this isn't a point brought up to shame or to condemn. 99 times out of 100, it's 'cause we like to look at why something happened and see if we can understand ourselves and others better as a result, or prompt that good good character discussion in a way that makes people think about the lore.
    edited by ZackOak on 7/5/2018

    --
    Roland Banning, The Ambitious Operative (Profile)
    Tumblr RP Account
    Ask me about the Delicious Friends RP group!
    Open for social actions (no cats or photographers, please. Currently taking a break from K&C.)
    +2 link
    astranox
    astranox
    Posts: 120

    7/5/2018
    DAMMIT I really wanted to learn more about slowcake!

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/astranox


    memegenerator.net/user/14484840
    You don't want to see my lame memes...
    +2 link
    Gul al-Ahlaam
    Gul al-Ahlaam
    Posts: 238

    7/4/2018
    Anne Auclair wrote:
    The Contrarian hasn't been sworn in yet, so let me mourn my chosen candidate.


  • While I'd argue that Feducci has some substantial depth to him as well, I agree fully with your assessment of the Princess. She's a fantastically compelling character, easily one of my favorites in the game, and certainly one of Gul's favorite people in-universe. ^_~
    Also, your observation about her learning from her sister was totally <3! I love learning about how the royal children get along! The snippets we got of her relationship with Beatrice in The Marriage of Feducci were very cute, and the revelations about her and her eldest sister in The Empress' Shadow were so heartbreaking!

  • EDIT: Deleted lines about Vriska. There's too much Discourse™ in this thread already without exponentially multiplying it.

  • edited by Gul al-Ahlaam on 7/4/2018

    --
    The Uncanny Hierophant.
    The Jewel-Eyed Prince.
  • +2 link
    MaxCaulfield
    MaxCaulfield
    Posts: 17

    7/4/2018
    From what I gathered on princess I found her bland kind of villain (although less boring than Slowcake), She had spoiled aristocrat vibe to her (I hate such type of character), where Fedduci comes off to me more like unhinged independent badass that makes a lot of ruckus (sort of like joker). Note that i base that on information I have about them so I my judgement may not be accurate. I loved that Fedduci blew up mansion, didn't see that coming.
    +1 link
    Snowskeeper
    Snowskeeper
    Posts: 575

    7/5/2018
    Gillsing wrote:
    Gul al-Ahlaam wrote:
    Both members of the royal couple get plenty of hate, but only Feducci tends to get the kind of elaborate and nonsensical justifications for his behavior that you provided throughout your post.

    Your wording seems to imply that they both get roughly equal amounts of hate, and that the main difference lies in the defence that one of them receives from his supporters. If that is true, then isn't that on the Princess' supporters? Wouldn't it be their job to make up elaborate and nonsensical justifications for her behavior, so that she isn't 'judged far more harshly'?



    You're missing a key step, here. For supporters to make up elaborate and potentially nonsensical justifications for her behaviour, they first have to support her. If male villains are judged less harshly than female villains, then people are less likely to support her, which makes them considerably less likely to come up with elaborate and potentially nonsensical justifications.

    (Which is not to say that nobody did that. I'm kind of surprised to see the Hierophant claiming otherwise; I thought I'd seen them posting in Anne Auclair's threads.)

    --
    S.F., a midnight midnighter and invisible eminence. Impossible to locate them, personally, but there are dead drops and agents.
    +1 link
    Diptych
    Diptych
    Administrator
    Posts: 3882

    7/6/2018
    Yeah, the slaving. Also the gathering up legions of people who hero-worship him and leading them to their deaths. Then coming to London, gathering up every warrior he could find with a tentative grip on life, and made them fight to the death for his amusement.

    --
    Diptych, the Emancipationist Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
    Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
    +1 link
    eaglewiz
    eaglewiz
    Posts: 12

    7/5/2018
    Anne Auclair wrote:

    They're the same! They say as much! And they totally approve of one another because of this mutual likeness!

    The Princess's red honey drinking? Feducci is totally cool with it. Because why wouldn't he be? It's no worse then what he's done.




    But there is one way in which the Princess and Feducci are not the same, and while I agree that it is evidence of a double standard, I don't think its the same one you are thinking of.

    It is implied that the Princess sees people as either tools or toys, and regularly seduces people who she treats cruelly and then discards when bored or annoyed in a way that leaves them seriously emotionally scared (or dead).

    Feducci on the other hand is charismatic, well liked, a man of mystery, probably actually a really awful person - but we know little to nothing about Feducci's love life. It would have been entirely possible for Feducci to have been written as a character who had a string of paramours who he had no genuine feelings for, treated awfully, and then discarded, leaving them emotionally damaged by the experience, and doing so would not have made him less of a "masculine" villain - but I suspect it would have made him considerably less popular, and even more hated then he already is.

    tl;dr - Feducci's crimes stopped short of him being an abuser, and while looking at any sort of objective terribleness that probably shouldn't matter, the election isn't a contest of least-objective-terribleness - its a contest of how easy it is to root for a character, and people don't like to root for abusers.
    +1 link
    Jermaine Vendredi
    Jermaine Vendredi
    Posts: 660

    7/10/2018
    Is the Mayor's card generally available? I drew it in Ladybones and since it mentions that his house is there, I wondered if it's location-based. [spoiler]Arguing produces a revolutionaries favour, as in Feducci's case[/spoiler]

    --
    No plant battles, please.
    https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Jermion
    +1 link
    Jolanda Swan
    Jolanda Swan
    Posts: 1823

    7/3/2018
    This is a huge crab we are talking about.
    One would say ugly is a compliment.

    --
    Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
    http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
    +1 link
    Anne Auclair
    Anne Auclair
    Posts: 2221

    7/3/2018
    Jolanda Swan wrote:
    Oh, for shame, Lady Anne. Are you appropriating suffragist ideals to shame those who did not want Marquise Cthulhu de Sade for Mayor?

    Yes.

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
    +1 link
    Snowskeeper
    Snowskeeper
    Posts: 575

    7/3/2018
    Some of us have businesses there.

    --
    S.F., a midnight midnighter and invisible eminence. Impossible to locate them, personally, but there are dead drops and agents.
    +1 link
    Wilhelm Leibniz III
    Wilhelm Leibniz III
    Posts: 63

    7/2/2018
    Corran wrote:
    There goes my streak of voting for the winner in all elections...

    I was sure the Princess had this one in the bag. I guess some interesting things happened this last week.

    Probably better for London that she didn't win anyway.

    Cashing in my 114 Reputation was nice. smile

    We had a good run, Comrade. 66% is still passing.

    --
    Wilhelm Leibniz III, Glassman, Hearts Desire
    +1 link
    Μαρσ
    Μαρσ
    Posts: 57

    7/2/2018
    Harry P. wrote:
    Though I am curious. Does this mean the candidates' cards no longer show up?


    Yesterday I managed to get the cards of all candidates, the Amanuensis, and Feducci at the same time. It looked so nice that I decided to stop drawing card for a day. I can now confirm that the cards of all the candidates are gone.

    But I am not sure that all that should be changed is changed. The election 1896 storylet with all its branches is left unchanged, which means that I can still perform Flash Lays for Reputation, and still use Reputation to switch or advance my career, or switch the candidate that I support. (I hope FBG saved the results at one moment otherwise this is going to mess with their numbers.)

    I also find it a bit peculiar that the Feducci card is still around: I can be invited to Blythenhales possibly illegal gambling hall after it has exploded.

    --
    Μαρσ,
    A Londoner, Researcher, Chef, ex-Seeker, and Invisible Eminence. All social actions are welcomed.
    +1 link
    Jeremiah Oathes
    Jeremiah Oathes
    Posts: 73

    7/2/2018
    I'm not too excited about him. He won't advance the liberation (I oppose it, but it's exciting nonetheless) and apart from that, I've not the vaguest idea what he stands for. Apart from "liberating" the Constabulary. He seems like a middle-left "safe bet" to me.

    *moans and pours a glass of Black Wings*

    I can see why some ideas of our Captivating Highness aren't that appealing, but at least it would have been fun to watch her realising her various fantasies.
    A toast for the Princess!

    *downs the glass and falls to the floor, choking*

    --
    Dr Jeremiah Oathes - Natural Philosopher, Alchemist and Anatomist (part-time). Occasionally in Service to the Crown and the Bazaar. Would like to dissect a Master (for science and mad laughter).
    +1 link
    Nepeta
    Nepeta
    Posts: 33

    7/2/2018
    I had the opportunity card, “A Polster Staggers Over” in my deck when the election ended. It’s a cannot discard card, and now that the election is over, it’s impossible to open. How do I make it go away? Refreshing my browser didn’t work.

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Nepeta
    +1 link
    Jeremiah Oathes
    Jeremiah Oathes
    Posts: 73

    7/2/2018
    Anne Auclair wrote:
    Finally, adding insult to injury, London elected Feducci even though his manifesto amounted to a bunch of confused chalkboard scribbles. That seems a pretty unfair, as the Princess really did have an excellent platform.

    I somehow still refuse to believe it, but this seems to be the state of London's political landscape.

    *pours another glass*

    --
    Dr Jeremiah Oathes - Natural Philosopher, Alchemist and Anatomist (part-time). Occasionally in Service to the Crown and the Bazaar. Would like to dissect a Master (for science and mad laughter).
    +1 link
    Nagaretsu
    Nagaretsu
    Posts: 24

    7/2/2018
    Anne Auclair wrote:
    Nagaretsu wrote:
    Damn,I lost my bet. I guess threatening journalists and mocking lower and middle class doesn't work to get londoners approval.

    Visibly desiring to demolish 1/7th of the city's residential area also seems to be something of a vote loser.



    I hope the Princess will learn from this and become closer to them(not too much for their safety)

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Nagaretsu

    Valor Darkwood http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Valor%20Darkwood
    +1 link
    Daedalus_Falk
    Daedalus_Falk
    Posts: 252

    7/2/2018
    An excellent result! I shall support him to the end in tearing the Ministry down brick by brick!

    --
    https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Daedalus_Falk

    ----

    For I was hungry, and you gave me rats. I was thirsty, and you gave me rats. I was naked, and you gave me rats. The rodents were gathered together, the cats slept in the Sun’s blindness, and the rats rose like the Moon, in the light at the edge of the cheese.
    +1 link
    Diptych
    Diptych
    Administrator
    Posts: 3882

    7/2/2018
    The Amanuensis seems more relieved than anything. I'm sorry to see Jenny's old offices gone, but no doubt the Contrarian will furnish us with a fine new mayoral landmark in Ladybone's.

    --
    Diptych, the Emancipationist Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
    Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
    +1 link




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