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Suggestion: To Resolve RNG Dependency in Election Messages in this topic - RSS

Gisele Howard
Gisele Howard
Posts: 1

6/21/2018
Hello,


  • First to say I am quite enjoying this game and reading the forum posts about the election. Many players seem to have a single concern which I have a suggestion for, namely the difficulty of advancing Career due to the advancement options being locked to Sometimes cards, making those who are able to play less often or have poor luck with the RNG directly disadvantaged.

    I suggest simply adding two (or one with branches) Always storylets with options something like:

    Arrange An Audience (Action Cost 4): Forces draw of the Advance your Reputation card.

    Rouse The Rabble (Action Cost 2, Favor cost 1, basically a clone of the Advance Reputation card but instead of that it just draws the card).

    Reasoning (in case any of it is useful even if the direct suggestion is not):

    Minimal work to add as it is just one layer above the existing system.

    One can choose to devote Action resources to this without allowing those who have lots of favors/money and playtime to specifically overwhelm the system quickly (if avoiding that was somehow the intent of this design).

    Players with little or no interest will still draw the Election cards naturally and be aware.

    Players with less playtime can do this until they run out of favors or other items for the purpose, which becomes more likely if you are using up actions this way.

    And obviously, Players who really want to participate, RP, etc, have what might be considered a valid lore option for doing so on demand, before our time to enjoy this event runs out.

    Thank you for your attention.
  • +12 link
    Daedalus_Falk
    Daedalus_Falk
    Posts: 230

    6/22/2018
    I agree with everything written here. To be honest, I'm getting a little frustrated with all of the RNG-dependent opportunity cards for events. I think the most fun at an event I ever had was the Fruits of the Zee, precisely BECAUSE there was minimal RNG involved in getting wasted on Mutton Island.

    --
    https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Daedalus_Falk

    ----

    For I was hungry, and you gave me rats. I was thirsty, and you gave me rats. I was naked, and you gave me rats. The rodents were gathered together, the cats slept in the Sun’s blindness, and the rats rose like the Moon, in the light at the edge of the cheese.
    +3 link
    Honeyaddict
    Honeyaddict
    Posts: 481

    6/22/2018
    These options do look very interesting, but they would be a bit unbalanced for end-game players, seen as you can advance reputation with a mere 2 Making waves (rather easy to acquire for anyone really) or those who can grind making waves.
    Though I must agree that the card's drawing ration is perhaps too low. Maybe if they increase it to Abundant Frequency it would be solved mainly?

    --
    Honeyaddict, Scarlet Saint, Paramount Presence
    pleasure to meet you.

    Has some ideas the Masters won't approve of like some items and establishing a Colony in Parabola.

    I will accept most social interactions (not duping). I do enjoy role playing as well.
    Have some possibly still active codes!
    +1 link
    Jolanda Swan
    Jolanda Swan
    Posts: 1686

    6/22/2018
    No, then we would only get this card.
    I advanced fairly fast (twenty since yesterday) and still, I find the RNG turning all events into frustration. At least, give us the opportunity to grind for the card. Or to grind for an equal result as the card gives. It is a pity for such well-written events to turn stressful because of mechanics. Even if few people are truly unlucky, what about them?

    --
    Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
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    +3 link
    Honeyaddict
    Honeyaddict
    Posts: 481

    6/22/2018
    Jolanda Swan wrote:
    No, then we would only get this card.
    I advanced fairly fast (twenty since yesterday) and still, I find the RNG turning all events into frustration. At least, give us the opportunity to grind for the card. Or to grind for an equal result as the card gives. It is a pity for such well-written events to turn stressful because of mechanics. Even if few people are truly unlucky, what about them?



    That is true, perhaps first an option to increase reputation w/o the card to a certain point (eg Reputation 5) then dependency on a card; or a chance to increase Reputation on the Candidates' cards?
    It is true that the RNG is very bothersome, I hadn't been able to pull the Mr. Sacks cards for the longest time during Neathmas, until they become Ubiquitous!
    Or perhaps a "rising" requirement level for Reputation (extending exclusively to the Making Wave Factor) if the Card were to be made a permanent option?

    2 Making waves = 1 Rep (levels Rep 1-->5)
    4 Making waves = 1 Rep (levels Rep 6-->10)
    6 Making waves = 1 Rep (levels Rep 11 -->15)
    ...
    (2(n+1)) Making waves = 1 Rep (levels Rep (1+5n)-->(5+5n) ) n starting at 0

    --
    Honeyaddict, Scarlet Saint, Paramount Presence
    pleasure to meet you.

    Has some ideas the Masters won't approve of like some items and establishing a Colony in Parabola.

    I will accept most social interactions (not duping). I do enjoy role playing as well.
    Have some possibly still active codes!
    0 link
    Azothi
    Azothi
    Posts: 561

    6/22/2018
    This thread made me consider what else could be implemented to reduce the RNG dependency without tipping the scales in favor of late-game players, and I've left my thoughts below:

    While this would require more time and investment to implement, making it improbable to implement this year while Sunless Skies and the website redesign take precedence, a good solution to the RNG dependency would be the addition of a mechanic akin to a Flash Lay or Heist. Ideally, it'd taken somewhere around ten to fifteen actions to complete (like the Finishing School), with the reward being convertible to Reputation (Favours in High Places for Fixers, Magnificent Diamonds for Campaigners, and Blackmail Material for Agitators). With Favour cards changed to Frequent frequency, the idea is that players can, through these mechanics, continually refresh their deck. With 20 actions and a deck of 6 cards, one can easily refresh the deck once. With 40 actions, one can refresh the deck two or three times while building up materials to use for Reputation.

    Admittedly, this still leaves the election dependent on the RNG, but it creates an illusion of progress because the player continues to invest actions to gain resources and participate in the election.

    --
    Azoth I, the Emissary of Cardinals - A Paramount Presence (not currently accepting new Proteges)
    Away to where the Chain cannot bind us.
    Hesperidean.
    +1 link
    Nora Lexington
    Nora Lexington
    Posts: 1

    6/22/2018
    I've earned 6-8 favors through opportunity cards since I last saw the Advance Your Reputation card. Adding something like this would let me actually play the event. Even if I have to spend 2 actions and a Favor to force it to appear, at least I'll get to see it more than 5 times in our one week long event. It's already Abundant, and that really doesn't help. So change the Making Waves rate, but let me play the game.
    0 link
    Honeyaddict
    Honeyaddict
    Posts: 481

    6/22/2018
    It would seem more fair indeed if it was either a card you could summon through means of paying a favour for example, or more like the amanuensis card (pay nothing, but you do need requirements)
    Since else, one may not draw the card at all during said week!
    edited by Honeyaddict on 6/22/2018

    --
    Honeyaddict, Scarlet Saint, Paramount Presence
    pleasure to meet you.

    Has some ideas the Masters won't approve of like some items and establishing a Colony in Parabola.

    I will accept most social interactions (not duping). I do enjoy role playing as well.
    Have some possibly still active codes!
    0 link
    Chezz
    Chezz
    Posts: 8

    6/22/2018
    I commented about it on Tuesday on the main Election thread, seems to being happening to a lot of players. In my case, I've been playing for a bit less than a month, so my deck isn't even crumpled, and I still have a hard time seeing the card appear. Since my rant, luckily things have gotten better and the card finally appeared and did it a few more times, but I totally agree that leaving the outcome of events like this to RNG is a risky proposition.
    edited by Chezz on 6/22/2018

    --
    Chezz - A killer of Renown
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Chezz
    +1 link
    Jolanda Swan
    Jolanda Swan
    Posts: 1686

    6/24/2018
    And apart from the luck factor, heists and flash lays and cases give you a sense of doing things FOR the election. Otherwise, you play as normally and election content comes up occasionally. Not as immersive.

    --
    Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
    http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
    +3 link
    Aardvark
    Aardvark
    Posts: 109

    6/25/2018
    So, now we can take part in an election Flash Lay, for Vital Intelligence, 3 Reputation and some more insight into the candidates. I can't overstate how happy that makes me, as that single-handedly addresses pretty much all the points of discontent that have been raised in this thread and others.

    Especially with what has been very nicely summed up here:

    Jolanda Swan wrote:
    And apart from the luck factor, heists and flash lays and cases give you a sense of doing things FOR the election. Otherwise, you play as normally and election content comes up occasionally. Not as immersive.



    Could't agree more with this point, and I'm already looking forward to delving into murky waters of Flash Lays. It's a nice bonus that it actually gives you more currency to spend on Further your Reputation card. Well played, FBG, and thank you for this elegant solution smile

    --
    Sir Reginald Monteroy, Paramount Glassman, Courier's Footprint, Poet-Laureate and Cider owner.

    http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Sir Reginald Monteroy

    If you desire a sip of Hesperidean Cider, PM me in the game.
    +1 link
    Azothi
    Azothi
    Posts: 561

    6/25/2018
    It seems, furthermore, that they've attempted to alleviate this problem by making the Further Your Reputation card Ubiquitous frequency now. I believe it was only Frequent last week.

    --
    Azoth I, the Emissary of Cardinals - A Paramount Presence (not currently accepting new Proteges)
    Away to where the Chain cannot bind us.
    Hesperidean.
    +2 link
    Jolanda Swan
    Jolanda Swan
    Posts: 1686

    6/25/2018
    Where is the Flash LaY? I am already at reputation 20 but I would play for the fun of it!

    --
    Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
    http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
    0 link
    Barse
    Barse
    Posts: 707

    6/25/2018
    Jolanda Swan wrote:
    Where is the Flash LaY? I am already at reputation 20 but I would play for the fun of it!

    The Flash Lays are somewhere towards the bottom of the main Election 1896 storylet.

    --
    The Scorched Sailor, up for most social actions and RP. Not as scary as he looks.
    +1 link
    Jolanda Swan
    Jolanda Swan
    Posts: 1686

    6/25/2018
    Thank you!
    edited by Jolanda Swan on 6/25/2018

    --
    Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
    http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
    +1 link
    shylarah
    shylarah
    Posts: 171

    6/29/2018
    I'm glad flash lays are about. But I would like to discard the Further Your Reputation card now that I don't need it. I want to keep my favors, thank you. At least I have a decently sized card spread (5-card lodgings). If I had two or three this would be infuriating (especially on the accounts wehre I have drawn a mood that I'm saving).

    --
    Lady of Cold Steel, Lady of the Flit, Lady Alyssana Grey. A formidable woman, hard to read and slow to trust. Darkness lurks inside her.

    Alts: (please direct all inquiries to Alys & say who they're for)
    -Nikki, the Playful Daredevil, leading the constables on merry chases across London at every available opportunity. It's not a good robbery if you didn't get chased~
    -Shylarah, waifish, wide-eyed, painfully foreign, entirely untamed. Her search for a way home now leads her to Parabola. There's something about her...
    -Dr. Maxwell Thomas, a kindhearted physician who can't stand to see suffering. Moral to a fault, even to his own detriment. Unlucky in love.
    I would rather be taken for a fool than deny aid where it is needed.
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    0 link
    Jolanda Swan
    Jolanda Swan
    Posts: 1686

    6/29/2018
    Well, if this is any consolation, if you spend the favor and then cash in at Electoral Opportunism, it is somehow profitable. I think it is 5 echoes for each favor spent, and if you surrender a lot of reputation at once, it becomes even more favorable.
    To be honest, I am baffled as to why they keep making these things RNG dependent if every time the forums are flooded by complaints. Perhaps there is a design reason we are unaware of? I know that what we consider a simple thing might drive a programmer crazy. But if it is indeed simple, let the card be a lucky break, and create playable grinds that give us something to actually, you know, play. I am sure they do not enjoy nagging either.

    --
    Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
    http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
    0 link
    Anne Auclair
    Anne Auclair
    Posts: 2215

    6/29/2018
    I actually kind of prefer the current system to the previous? It's way less grindy? We're not constantly redoing flash lays and investigations and there's a single electoral currency that works for everything.

    --
    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
    +1 link
    shylarah
    shylarah
    Posts: 171

    6/29/2018
    I do like the single type of electoral currency (though debates and mobs were kinda fun. Debates more tricky than mobs, but also more fun than mobs). I was never a fan of the three different currencies with each each career using only two of them.

    I want my favors for renown, though. I'm still annoyed by the conversion to it and it drives me nuts for various reasons, but the items are nice. I just have to keep grinding....

    --
    Lady of Cold Steel, Lady of the Flit, Lady Alyssana Grey. A formidable woman, hard to read and slow to trust. Darkness lurks inside her.

    Alts: (please direct all inquiries to Alys & say who they're for)
    -Nikki, the Playful Daredevil, leading the constables on merry chases across London at every available opportunity. It's not a good robbery if you didn't get chased~
    -Shylarah, waifish, wide-eyed, painfully foreign, entirely untamed. Her search for a way home now leads her to Parabola. There's something about her...
    -Dr. Maxwell Thomas, a kindhearted physician who can't stand to see suffering. Moral to a fault, even to his own detriment. Unlucky in love.
    I would rather be taken for a fool than deny aid where it is needed.
    -Angie, the Cheeky Sharpshooter. Got her start with the Regiment and proudly operated their cannon for years. Rowdy, rough, and among the best shots in London.
    0 link
    Zack Oak
    Zack Oak
    Posts: 205

    6/30/2018
    The event is time-limited, and ultimately, the best lore for the campaign and candidates comes from their cards... which despite being so frequent, get buried in the thousands of cards one will be able to draw by mid-game. If nothing else, just make the candidate cards static. That would be nice.

    --
    Roland Banning, The Ambitious Operative (Profile)
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    Open for social actions (no cats or photographers, please. Currently taking a break from K&C.)
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