Lady Sapho Byron
Posts: 770
6/19/2018
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easter wrote:
a soulless bureaucracy that profits off the current system
Italics added.
I'm not sure this is the most apt description of said bureaucracy.
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http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Lady%20Sapho%20L%20Byron
Fighting the Menace of Corsetry Since 1892.
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Von Darken
Posts: 39
6/19/2018
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Is it a foolish thought that, as a young man, I would love to be the Contrarian when I am older. The ability to hold any particular stance to stand in opposition to another's argument seems to be such a wonderful place to stand. I don't know, maybe old Mannfred has had one tipple to many, but it just seems to me to be the perfect position, constantly making people questioning their deep seated beliefs to make sure they are not just following in blind obedience.
Forgive my ramblings...
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Mannfred von Darken - Accidentally aiding the forces of Evil since 1893
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Mannfred%20Von%20Darken
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
6/20/2018
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Let's not have any comparisons to present real-world political figures - that's a powder keg we can refuse delivery of.
D'you know, it strikes me the Contrarian is running... almost a parody of a political campaign. Or, like past political pranksters have done, he's running with half sensible policies and half satirical ones, and daring people to vote for him anyway. It's all a little Standing At The Back Dressed Stupidly And Looking Stupid Party... and I can't say I disapprove.
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Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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Lady Karnstein
Posts: 277
6/20/2018
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When Caroline finally crawls out of the drunken stupor she threw herself into when the candidates were announced she politely signed on with the Contrarian. As a dedicated Suffragette she never expected to be backing a man against a woman, but such is the nature of things in Fallen London.
edited by Lady Karnstein on 6/20/2018
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Lady Caroline Karnstein, The Moral Hedonist (Description)
Infamous writer, artist, and courtesan. Unrepentant Invert. Hesperidean.
Paramount Presence, Correspondent, Nocturnal. Poet Laureate of the Neath, Ambassador to Arbor
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Aniline
Posts: 144
6/20/2018
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NinjaComedian wrote:
I'm less concerned about what the Contrarian might do in office, and more concerned about what the rest of the Calendar Council might feel empowered to do with him in office. Hopefully, there will be some more interesting information over the next week and a half about the candidates and their plans.
[out of character, not campaigning]
I'm pretty sure the Calendar Council is even less united than the Masters. I love February as a character (because the Council was the most fascinating faction in Sunless Sea, and she was the mysterious doom-bringer lady in the tiny icon) and I (the player) would love to see her wreck things. However, having played FL for a year, I don't trust her leadership in the slightest. I don't trust her alliances, I don't trust her plans, I don't trust her HR policy, I don't trust her common sense. Put simply, some basic empathy is required to strike deals with ancient monsters and come out ahead, and she doesn't have that. You can't be a good Revolutionary if you need a dictionary to see what "comrade" means.
The Contrarian, on the other hand, strikes me as a sensible and ultimately decent person. He's only a Revolutionary in the sense that he doesn't want to be eaten and thinks other people will appreciate not getting eaten, too. Personally, I will, and that's why I'm voting for him.
For what it's worth, I think that out of the three, he's the least LoN-friendly.
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Melantha Prescott, the Suspicious Statistician. "3% failure chances crop up nine times out of ten."
Francesca Ayers-Kernighan, bat-hunter, cat-whisperer
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0bsidian Fire
Posts: 117
6/20/2018
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Finally managed to get the last Echo from his card!
Echo of what happens when you protest the Jovial Contrarian's Campagin: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Kharagal%20Mierqid?fromEchoId=14268473
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Kharagal Mierqid - Bohemian Correspondent who is obsessed with the Language of Stars...
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
6/20/2018
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0bsidian Fire wrote:
Finally managed to get the last Echo from his card!
Echo of what happens when you protest the Jovial Contrarian's Campagin: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Kharagal%20Mierqid?fromEchoId=14268473
I read this not so much as the Contrarian having a commanding presence and more that most people in London genuinely like and respect the guy.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Nagaretsu
Posts: 24
6/20/2018
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Anne Auclair wrote:
Kaijyuu wrote:
If we're comparing people to That Real World Figure, then the Princess "Make London Great Again" is probably closer.
Her platform is more "London should embrace it's uniqueness," which is a natural program for someone Neath born. Also, since she obviously regards herself as the most unique thing in London, London embracing its uniqueness means embracing her capricious wants and desires.
Isn't that wonderful? London will become her dream as it should be,a dream that will be shared with some good old red honey 
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Nagaretsu
Valor Darkwood http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Valor%20Darkwood
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0bsidian Fire
Posts: 117
6/20/2018
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An Echo of what the Captivating Princess thinks of the Jovial Contrarian: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Kharagal%20Mierqid?fromEchoId=14272225
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Kharagal Mierqid - Bohemian Correspondent who is obsessed with the Language of Stars...
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menaulon
Posts: 112
6/21/2018
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As someone who supported the Jovial Contrarian in the first election and the Implacable Detective in the second, this campaign appears to be tailor-made for me. Well played, Contrarian!
edited by menaulon on 6/21/2018
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Menaulon
Open to social actions, but would prefer to be betrayed in the search for Photographer.
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
6/21/2018
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Two more thoughts on the Contrarian's campaign.
First, his current slogan, Pull Yourselves Together, isn't really that different from his previous slogan, Master Yourself. In fact, it's essentially the same slogan, identical meaning, just with different words. Make of that what you will.
Second, the Contrarian has pulled off a rather stealthy paradigm shift. Consider that there are Revolutionaries and Constables working together in his campaign. Um, that's not how things are supposed to work in this city! Revolutionaries and Constables are supposed to be like cats and dogs. This is probably more unsettling for the Masters than any of the bombings the Calendar Council has pulled off. And it's probably really infuriating for February. After all, it will be a bit harder for her to boss the Contrarian around when he has an army of burly policemen to back him up.
.
edited by Anne Auclair on 6/21/2018
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Gul al-Ahlaam
Posts: 225
6/21/2018
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Anne Auclair wrote:
First, his current slogan, Pull Yourselves Together, isn't really that different from his previous slogan, Master Yourself. In fact, it's essentially the same slogan, identical meaning, just with different words. Make of that what you will.
I've just spoken to him in depth regarding his platform, and...
[spoiler]He's effectively running on the exact same policies that he was in 1896, except justified with the exact opposite rhetoric, so that he can attract the kind of base that would likely shy from supporting the other two candidates: exactly the kind of base that he failed to secure during his previous run. Oh, I adore him.[/spoiler]
+Anne Auclair wrote:
This is probably more unsettling for the Masters than any of the bombings the Calendar Council has pulled off. And it's probably really infuriating for February. After all, it will be a bit harder for her to boss the Contrarian around when he has an army of burly policemen to back him up. In all honesty, the Contrarian's moderate positions, careful rhetoric, and subtle reforms will probably be more effective tools of liberation than any of the Council's dramatic schemes have ever been. Assuming he can hold himself to it for an entire election.
edited by Gul al-Ahlaam on 6/21/2018
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The Uncanny Hierophant.
The Jewel-Eyed Prince.
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
6/21/2018
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Gul al-Ahlaam wrote:
In all honesty, the Contrarian's moderate positions, careful rhetoric, and subtle reforms will probably be more effective tools of liberation than any of the Council's dramatic schemes have ever been. Assuming he can hold himself to it for an entire election.
I don't think the Contrarian qualifies as "moderate." He's really just a different species of radical. His end goal is a London far different from the one currently existing. His lantern effects the world's light, just in a different sort of way (the Liberation of Twilight?). Thinking him moderate is just the Overton Window messing with you. He joined the Calendar Council instead of the Establishment because at the end of the day he is a Revolutionary through and through.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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wrondo
Posts: 11
6/21/2018
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First, I have to say, as someone who calls themselves “Wrondo,” and loves to argue for all sides of an argument, the Contrarian is a godsend to me in terms of a political candidate. (Wrong is the opposite of Right, but not the opposite of Truth; rather, an integral component. The name did not originally come from “Wrong” however, it comes from Wronski, the adopted name of a Czech mathematician who wanted to pretend himself Polish nobility.)
But the candidates - three inhumans, each inhuman in a very specific way.
The Princess, of course, is apparently a monster. But it’s also apparent that she is not a thinking being. She just wants. There are only two thinking candidates in this election - the man called the Contraraian, and the committee of Slowcake. Slowcake is not human because he is a group of people (devils).
Most people would say the Contrarian is human - but I would posit that the Contrarian is also beyond human - i.e., transhuman - in a specific way, that is, he wants to see all issues from all perspectives, forego objectivity and lose himself in all subjectivity. He wants to be superman.
I heard that the Contrarian has run before, although I was not here at the time. But I would say that the man’s principles have not changed. He stands for freedom. Liberty. - Liberitas Forte.
Now, freedom is a finicky thing. Anarchists would posit that freedom is freedom from order. But there is also a sense of a freedom to order, a freedom to structure. Order and restraint means freedom from fear; freedom from care, freedom from worry, freedom from constant vigilance and constant competence. The fundamental freedom of the human being means that people are free to leave order, and to also enter it. This is the radical freedom; the freedom to choose differently; the freedom of the contrarian.
And that sort of freedom - that fundamental freedom - I say, is the dignity of the human mind, the dignity of the human individual, and the dignity of the human subjectivity.
This freedom is certainly a subtle and tricky thing, but I believe it is essential to good governance. If I were to trust any candidate to understand it, or at least be interested in trying to understand it, it would be the Contrarian.
The Princess has said that she has received the Contrarian at the palace to teach rhetoric. If the Contrarian is a rhetorician, Slowcake is a philosopher. (The Princess in an idealist.) And as such. it’s informative to compare the Contrarian to Slowcake. They, on the other hand, strive for complete objectivity of society. They want to reduce all humans to their objective essence, i.e. the soul. I would argue that they yearn for a techno-totalitarian society. The Contrarian is unpalatable to Slowcake, for they think humans should not overstep their station as a soul, I think.
I believe we may be being asked to choose between authoritarianism (Contrarian), totalitarianism (Slowcake), and fascism (Princess)!
I believe, the difference though, is that whereas authority is vested in man, totalitarianism results from an obsessive pursuit of an ideology. I would rather stand behind a man than behind an idea.
And so, the man, the Contrarian. Why I support him, it comes down to this; I think he is smart. I hope he may even be able to be competent.
But there might be danger in his vanity and love. Given his revolutionary leanings and authoritarian ideas, I think there is a very real chance that he will abolish the democracy, and put himself, or some form of the Council, in rule, indefinitely. Right, he’s a revolutionary - he sees himself as beyond human.
But the truth is, I think London can prosper under a benevolent and competent dictatorship - when people think of dictators, people generally think of largely failed leaders of countries, but we must remember that London is a city-state. There are multiple examples of city-states prospering under a benevolent and competent dictator, for example, Singapore. (I’m sorry for bringing up a real-life example, but I hope it’s fine considering it’s a historical example, not a current one. That said, I don’t want this thread to devolve into Hitler comparisons, either.)
Even though I can see the Contrarian, or the Council in some form, becoming dictator for life,
I think a similar thing will happen with Slowcake - it won’t be Slowcake again, but where another candidate of Hell, existing or not, is raised for candidacy, and they are rigged into becoming mayor, in a revolving door style of dictatorship. I see this as worse than the Contrarian style of dictatorship, which, at least, I hope will have the benefit of being honest.
Interestingly, the candidate who I see the least likely to become dictator for life is the Princess - the Contrarian has said that her heart is not in London, and that she is going to go somewhere else soon.
To be fair, I think most Londoners notice that the Contrarian is the only human candidate, and will vote for him. The challenge and the game here, I think, is for Contraraian supporters to split themselves with as much argument and infighting as possible as to make the other candidates viable. And even, if possible, lose.
edited by wrondo on 6/21/2018
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F., an inescapable and terrifying lady.
“There are ghosts in the architecture, stuck in the firmament.”
W., an irresistible and sinister individual of mysterious and indistinct gender.
“Truth is strong and will prevail.”
Blocked; blocked; blocked; blocked; none of you are free of sin
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Akernis
Posts: 255
6/21/2018
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Well said, Wrongdo. More philosophical than political, but a very thorough and well-thought-out analysis.
I do have a few disagreements though.
wrondo wrote:
The Princess, of course, is apparently a monster. But it’s also apparent that she is not a thinking being. She just wants.
That doesn't really makes sense. She not a piece of fire that just wants to burn.
Of course she is a thinking being, as she clearly has opinions, ideas, and desires like everyone else. One can't even say that she only cares about herself, as 'The Gift' quite clearly show her being tender, regretful (if she likes you), and caring about her siblings. Sure, she does horrible things in the pursuit of her goals, whether they be for her own enjoyment or helping her sister regain humanity, but she clearly cares about them.
wrondo wrote:
he wants to see all issues from all perspectives, forego objectivity and lose himself in all subjectivity.
Isn't wanting to see an issue from all perspective the very definition of objectivity? Subjectivity is about stating and following your preferences, objectivity is about considering all sides of the issue and give them due consideration in spite of your own preferences.
wrondo wrote:
But there might be danger in his vanity and love. Given his revolutionary leanings and authoritarian ideas, I think there is a very real chance that he will abolish the democracy, and put himself, or some form of the Council, in rule, indefinitely. Right, he’s a revolutionary - he sees himself as beyond human.
We already have abolished democracy and put a council who are beyond human in rule indefinitely - the Masters of the Bazaar, who rule London in all but name. And I don't see them relinquishing that power, regardless of what laws or policies the mayor puts into practice.
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edited by Akernis on 6/21/2018
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Vena's profile - http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Akernis
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
6/22/2018
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Gul al-Ahlaam wrote:
[spoiler]He's effectively running on the exact same policies that he was in 1896, except justified with the exact opposite rhetoric, so that he can attract the kind of base that would likely shy from supporting the other two candidates: exactly the kind of base that he failed to secure during his previous run. Oh, I adore him.[/spoiler]
Agreed. His goal seems to remain the same - to reform London's political structures, its government, its intellectual life, to facilitate... well, one can only guess at his motives, but, presumably, democracy, long-term reforms, less reliance on the Masters and/or the Bazaar.
edited by Sir Frederick on 6/22/2018
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Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
6/22/2018
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Sir Frederick wrote:
Agreed. His goal seems to remain the same - to reform London's political structures, its government, its intellectual life, to facilitate... well, one can only guess at his motives, but, presumably, democracy, long-term reforms, less reliance on the Masters and/or the Bazaar.
edited by Sir Frederick on 6/22/2018
And presumably some of the Calendar Council's goals. He is a member after all and it's hard to imagine him remaining so, let alone alive, if he was totally opposed to their agenda. He might not subscribe to "lights out," but he certainly wants them turned down a bit. There's a bit of a joke there - much of the Council wants things black and white, while the Contrarian wants them grey, literally. I also suspect that, if he were forced to make a binary choice, however much he might hate doing so, he would choose the Liberation. Because the Contrarian is not trying to create an alternative to the corrupt Old Order - he's totally committed himself to getting rid of that in joining the Council - no, what he's trying to do is create an alternative to the nihilistic Liberation which is the current official objective, and which operatives like February regularly act out in miniature with bombs and guns.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
6/22/2018
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Hey, if he can organise us into anarchy, hats off to him.
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Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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Blaine Davidson
Posts: 388
6/22/2018
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After talking to the Princess I find her to be unbearable.
I'm defecting to Camp Contrarian.
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Blaine Davidson, a reserved and sensible woman with a fondness of collecting rarities.
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Bitty
Posts: 234
6/22/2018
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this guy because i dont trust someone who wont show his face and the princess is well...the princess
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