Koenig
Posts: 466
2/14/2018
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Is anyone else concerned about the excessive grinding involved with Notabilty gain and Making Waves (MW)? Even more so since the update and implementation of most high level functions requiring 12 or even 15 notability costs to progress. I personally have found that I am exponentially losing interest in playing Fallen London due to the limited options to gain Making Waves and inefficient cost of time put towards them. (This coming from a guy who spent two years acquiring the Uber goat) Considering The most efficient way I have found to reliably convert actions towards it is to repeatedly side convert tier 3 items, that can take an excessive amount of time on the players end to actually do. While having high BDR can dramatically reduce the amount of MW's, even with near the max BDR items and attributes accumulated from years of play it will generally still take months of repetitiously side converting items one action at at a time to raise notability to the required levels, only to spend it all and start over again.
Are there any better ways to reliably (IE not including the Orphanage, Salon, miscellaneous Opportunity Cards and Evets ) to grind MW and notability? As is the only way I have been able to even passively play the game is to spend 5 actions at a time raising casing and later expending it for a relatively small reward, and even this has left me exhausted of playing. If not (And if anyone from failbetter is reading this) would any of you prefer or be interested in new MW gain options and/or ones that have exceptionally high action costs (10 to 15, or maybe even 20) to help reduce player fatigue from grinding?
Even taking the time to write this out required me to put more effort towards Fallen London than I have been able to muster in months to actually play it. It is not my desire to sound bitter or angry, but I am most certainly tired; and I am trying to prevent myself from losing all interest in the game after years of dedicated play. Fallen London has a special place in my heart, and I do not want it to turn into one that I grow to resent.
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Koenig: Extraordinary. Invisible. Shattering. Legendary.
   
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Kaijyuu
Posts: 1047
2/15/2018
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Paramount Presence and Hallowmas are the only really big notability grinds. And Hallowmas may be getting a change this year, since they said they'd be reevaluating it after last year's backlash.
I'll note that Paramount Presence can be done over a long period of time. You don't need to put every action toward MW each week; effectively utilizing a salon or orphanage should be able to get you another notability point every 2-3 weeks until you hit 15 without any other action investment.
edited by Kaijyuu on 2/15/2018
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Be of good cheer. Our contacts have assured us that your sins are forgiven.
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Achanei
Posts: 63
2/16/2018
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CatLady wrote:
Personally, I find goat/cider grind much more tiresome than notability.
I disagree. Those options simply cost money, meaning that as you play the game, you will slowly come closer to affording them right out of pocket, simply by doing virtually anything ingame (with the obvious exception of seeking I suppose, which is the only serious resource drain I can think of). Sure, if you don't give a damn about EPA at all, it will take a long time to accumulate the coin for cider, but the player can completely set their own pace and will sooner or later get there.
Notability, on the other hand, decays - MW annoyingly fast, once the notability requirement is in the forties, and even maintaining notability itself gets rather annoying - high notability means you have to grind MW 30 simply to be able to leave London (or not come online at all) for more than two weeks at a time. There is a psychological pressure to it, both by pushing people into being very active and solely focussed on MW if trying to cap out notability, and similarly maintaining their high notability once they are there, which is admittedly easy while one stays in London, but is still kind of an annoying maintenance task.
I for one would suggest introducing a third, rare/expensive stat, lets call it 'Celebrity' that serves as a lower boundary for MW drop - capped at 15, like notability. This way, players can invest (significant) resources to maintain a certain level of notability indefinitely, and make subsequent notability increases very slightly cheaper (potentially, should be negligible in practice). This would allow one to get rid of the annoying upkeep pressure long-term, and could be introduced in an interesting way to open up new RP possibilities, too.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Achanei Midnighter. Man of many talents and faces.
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MidnightVoyager
Posts: 858
2/15/2018
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I wish "tough" didn't mean "tedious."
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Midnight Voyager - A blood-cousin to predators. Collector of beasts. Affably mad.
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phryne
Posts: 1351
2/14/2018
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Koenig wrote:
Is anyone else concerned about the excessive grinding involved with Notability gain and Making Waves (MW)? Short answer: yes, it's terrible and that's why I've stopped bothering with it. If that should lock me out of some high-level stuff, so be it. In the end, there's not that many things in the game you really need high Notability levels for. It's definitely possible to play FL while completely ignoring the whole MW/Notability thing.
edited by phryne on 2/14/2018
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Accounts: Bag a Legend • Light Fingers • Heart's Desire • Nemesis • no ambition
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writer ― Favours & Renown Guide
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dov
Posts: 2580
2/15/2018
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Note that while the option after the Marriage of Feducci is a good source for Romantic Notions, it's not exactly a better grind than side converting. Side converting is much more efficient (in terms of overall actions), but the new option allows you to collect lots of Romantic Notions in advance, to convert to MW later. So overall you'll spend significantly more actions, but can get better MW bursts at the end.
Personally, I've used side conversions but not for those last few Notability points. There, take advantage of (card based) options that can give lots of MW (but require preparations), e.g.: all 4-card lodgings' cards (expensive but effective), gambling den card, Salon/Orphanage, etc.
At the higher Notability levels, while waiting for the above cards, use your time to side convert items to the type which gives MW (e.g. convert into Visions of the Surface) to prepare them for the next run. This way, when you next need the side conversions the items will get you 5.5 CP MW per action instead of the average 1.6.
Alternatively, some players have used the marriage/divorce (from other players) mechanic. Depending on the wedding venue, you'll get a point of Notability when you get married. If you find a willing partner you can marry and divorce a few times and it might be more efficient for you than getting the MW you need for the higher Notability levels.
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 Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how.
(Most social actions are welcome. Please no requests to Loiter Suspiciously and no investigations of the Affluent Photographer)
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rahv7
Posts: 294
2/15/2018
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Burning out on the PP grind is definitely a real danger. I almost did.
There are two things that can make it more bearable, but both are a bit exploit-y:
1. If you have a player-spouse or an alt who is willing to participate, you can keep marrying and divorcing for one point of Notability for each marriage. I didn't do this because I didn't want to lose my letter from the Empress but in retrospect this is probably the fastest way to get there. This exploit is known pretty much since PP is a thing and since it hasn't been nerfed yet I assume Failbetter don't mind?! (Just noticed dov also mentioned this above. Sorry for mentioning it again!)
2. This is less of an exploit. Possibly not an exploit at all, depending on how you define those things: You need an acquaintance you know fairly well or an alt, again. If you own a Orphanage they need to be a Midnighter, if you own a Salon they need to be a Crooked Cross. Ignore grinding Waves and instead grind Scheme via the "Tower of Eyes". Whenever you have enough to invite your acquaintance, do so but make sure they DON'T accept. Once you have sent enough invites that the resulting Waves (200 CP for each invite) are enough to raise your Notability one level, ask them to accept all invitations at once. This allows you to take weeks for each level without any actual grinding at all. It's what I did for my last stat and while it is definitely slower than actively grinding Waves, it is also a much more sane and relaxed way to do this.
Also (obviously) ... if there is anything you can do to get additional BDR, get it! Every single point helps SO much, especially at higher levels.
edited by rahv7 on 2/15/2018
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It's possible people have forgotten that there is an actual devil in the actual Lord Mayor's office. A devil who is promising to look after people's souls. What is wrong with everybody?
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/rahv7
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
2/15/2018
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It's definitely a pain. If you've played the Marriage of Feducci and made sure the wedding was successful, there is a better grind open to you than T3 sideconversions. The News of the Royal Couple storylet gives 15 Romantic Notions per action, so grinding those and up/side converting all the way to Incanabula (iirc) is a good amount of MW. Unlike T3 sideconversions you can also stockpile items this way.
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Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
 Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Frenjamin Banklin
Posts: 49
2/15/2018
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you can also do artistic works for the privy Councillor in your off week to cash in some MW for both the poem/film/opera/whatever, an the upping of your poet-laurate rank, as both give MW.
Really only makes sense to hard grind MW every second week IMO, on off weeks you can just prep stuff like palace works, and get MW reasonably high to give yourself a but of a boost for next week
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idyl
Posts: 168
2/14/2018
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There aren't really many things that require top-level Notability. Those that do are pretty much to show that you're the best of the best (Paramount Presence, etc.).
I understand what you're saying, but that's kind of the point that FB is going for, I think. It's tough to get those things, because they're high level. Makes sense to me.
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“Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est"
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The Lord Breakfast
Posts: 70
2/15/2018
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I would almost certainly be fed up with the Notability grind if I had had to do it more than once, for St. Destin's Candle. Getting St. Destin's and then immediately locking myself out of notability forever with Erzulie's was admittedly a bit satisfying, after the annoyance that was getting 12 Notability. I tried to make sure I would be able to get the candle immediately after the Notability without having to flip cards for ages or grind up to 13 to summon the card again, so I summoned Slowcake's Amanuensis, then backed out, granting me the card, then summoned him again to actually get the point. Interestingly, that did not give me an extra copy of the card, which I was half expecting. But then when I drew the one card that I had, I IMMEDIATELY drew Slowcake's Amanuensis. I don't know if that was because of my attempt, or just amazing, incredible luck. If anyone else looks into this, I'd love to hear why that worked.
Edit: Or appeared to have worked, at least
edited by The Lord Breakfast on 2/15/2018
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The Lord Breakfast, Captain Bacon, The Ageless Pirate, Bane of Salad, The Thrice-Mad, Eater of Pelicans
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
2/15/2018
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It was incredible luck.
As you note, options that redirect you to a card put the card in your hand. If you play the option again, you're getting redirected to that card again, but you can't have multiple copies in hand. So when you play it, the one copy of the card gets discarded as normal.
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Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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CatLady
Posts: 53
2/16/2018
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Personally, I find goat/cider grind much more tiresome than notability. The latter just seems to be getting "itself" with time (including dual-digit levels), so if you don't torment yourself with having to get everything NOW AND IMMEDIATELY, it will just happen on its own pace. Roleplaying wise, it even makes more sense for Paramount Presence to be achieved in years, not weeks/months.
But the goats/cider grind is plainly unbearable. The cider would be extremely tedious even if you would be getting 100% success rate on FW (3584 actions), and in reality, it is just a joke. I half-except it to be a prize for ending Dilmun Club/Seeking the Garden, at some point.
Alas, Goats are not *that* necessary - if one is willing to spend fate on unlocking stories, owl can be erzac for it. And the cider is just for the show, anyway.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/CatLady_
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