Greg M
Posts: 197
1/18/2018
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I didn't see this thread in the salons (at least dating back the first 5 pages of topics), so I'm starting one--apologies if there's overlap.
Fallen London is an obsessively, gloriously literary work. What are your favorite references in Fallen London?
Mine (so far):
• Attending to the Needs of a Singular Plant is straight-up Little Shop of Horrors
• Playing chess with the Boatman = Ingmar Bergman's The Seventh Seal
• Plagued by a Popular Song and what it does to a type of thing you own may be my all-time favorite so far.
I'm sure there are dozens more I'd love that I didn't catch.
I suspect that Alexis and co. are familiar with Mark Z. Danielewski's novel House of Leaves, but have no in-game text to back this up (yet).
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Siankan
Posts: 1048
1/18/2018
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The five sections of T. S. Eliot's The Waste Land are "The Burial of the Dead," "A Game of Chess," "The Fire Sermon," "Death by Water," and "What the Thunder Said"--which nicely covers five of the six standard dream qualities, as well as making the whole thing seem much more depressing.
(This makes me wonder: Is April the cruellest Month? I've never played the right ambition to know, though I wouldn't put it past the writers.)
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dov
Posts: 2580
1/18/2018
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"What is the Vake?
They say it's not a monster at all. It's a man who dresses up as a bat. To, ah, prowl the city by night. But that would just be stupid."
-- from the sidebar snippets
(If you echo this to your journal, you get: "A man who dresses up as a bat? Who ever heard of such a thing?")
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Plynkes
Posts: 631
1/18/2018
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Well, it isn't a literary reference, but "It's a fair collar, and no mistake, but society is to blame" is a slightly-modified line from Monty Python, and that made me chuckle when I read it.
The Revolutionaries seem based on the anarchists from G.K. Chesteron's "The Man Who Was Thursday." In that work they are named after days of the week, whereas here they are months of the year.
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"Then tell Wind and Fire where to stop, but don't tell me."
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Reused NPC
Posts: 259
1/18/2018
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From The Devil's Parrot:
This parrot... is no longer alive.
It is no more! It has ceased to be! It has met its maker and joined the choir invisible! And so on.
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ReusedNPC, a d__ned lunatic.
Edmund Viric, a rather dreamy sort.
"I won't stay long, I shan't stay long! Tell me a secret."
--the Baldomerian
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Siankan
Posts: 1048
1/18/2018
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Two more important literary allusions, while we're at it:
"All shall be well, etc." is from the Showings of Julian of Norwich. (It also, incidentally, was quoted in Eliot's Little Gidding, which may have influenced its appearance here.)
The Cumaean Canal is an adaptation of Book VI of the Aeneid, which has been nicely reinforced by a different Sibylline legend in the most recently ES.
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Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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Rasvarmo
Posts: 54
1/18/2018
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I believe the Honey-Addled Detective is a more melancholy allusion to Sherlock Holmes.
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Rasvarmo - a lady of distinction and ambition. Open to social exchanges.
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Barse
Posts: 706
1/18/2018
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I always get a bit sad when I see the "DONE BECAUSE WE ARE TOO MENNY" Surprise Package result - it's a reference to Jude the Obscure, and a pretty heartbreaking part at that.
The Final Curtain had a load of fun nods to pieces of drama too, although I don't recall them off the top of my head.
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 The Scorched Sailor, up for most social actions and RP. Not as scary as he looks.
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Plynkes
Posts: 631
1/19/2018
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Yeah, that green is rancid, isn't it? 
My favourite aspect of "The Man Who Was Thursday" is the fact that it turns out that the central council of the anarchists is actually being run by undercover secret policemen who have infiltrated the organisation. I sometimes wonder if our own Calendar Council is the same, and that the whole business isn't just some bizarre joke of the Masters?
My interactions with them have been fleeting, and I have a terrible time remembering all the FL lore anyway, so I have no evidence for this idea, it's just idle fancy on my part.
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"Then tell Wind and Fire where to stop, but don't tell me."
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dov
Posts: 2580
1/20/2018
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Greg M wrote:
@Bitty: I just got the Jack Vance card, and with it an object I will never sell.
If you do sell it (12.5 E), then you'll be able to draw the card again (though it is Rare).
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dov
Posts: 2580
1/22/2018
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CatLady wrote:
dov wrote:
Is there a reference to Neverwhere in Fallen London? If so, I've missed it.
Oh c'mon, underground London with streets and locations with both name and function "transformed" is a reference in itself. I wouldn't be surprised if author never had "Neverwhere" in mind, but - willing or not - it is first thing that always comes to mind, when readers of the book meet Fallen London.
I've read Neverwhere many many times (probably my most-read Gaiman book, and I highly recommend reading (and/or re-reading) it before every visit to London).
But besides some minor similarity in settings (fantastical version of London, some of which is underground) I see no actual literary reference in Fallen London to Neverwhere (see the other references in this thread for examples, from direct Monty Python quotes, to chapter titles from T.S. Eliot, etc.).
And Neverwhere is not about taking London to an underground setting. It's about finding out that underneath (and above, and in between) the real (and modern!) London there's another layer of it with fantastical elements.
Could Fallen London have been influenced by Neverwhere? Possibly, if Alexis and others at FBG have read it (which is not unlikely). But that's not the same as including a reference to it.
edited by dov on 1/22/2018
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dov
Posts: 2580
1/25/2018
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Siankan wrote:
We really should have some Dickens, no?
Well, in the case of Dickens, the man himself is walking the streets of Fallen London and is a frequently appearing character.
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Plynkes
Posts: 631
2/10/2018
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I have a new favourite reference. On a new character picking pockets in Spite I found a Tolkien reference. Didn't spot that years ago when I was there with my first character.
What did they have in their pocketses?
Hadn't noticed any Tolkien references in the game before I saw this.
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"Then tell Wind and Fire where to stop, but don't tell me."
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Greg M
Posts: 197
1/19/2018
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These are all great! I just marked this as "Accepted answer" and it turned a horrible shade of green, so I'm...going to avoid that in the future. But I love all of them.
Plynkes wrote:
Well, it isn't a literary reference, but "It's a fair collar, and no mistake, but society is to blame" is a slightly-modified line from Monty Python, and that made me chuckle when I read it.
The Revolutionaries seem based on the anarchists from G.K. Chesteron's "The Man Who Was Thursday." In that work they are named after days of the week, whereas here they are months of the year.
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Siankan
Posts: 1048
1/20/2018
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Greg M wrote:
@Rasvarmo: I suspect it is. But where's Watson?
I don't think there's any real doubt on this one, though as you point out, he's Watsonless down here.
Regarding the Gaiman story, I can't say anything authoritative about Alexis's possible inspirations, but I can say that there was a mention once of the Square of Lofty Words predating the decision to set the game in Victorian London; you could say, I suppose, that the Echo Bazaar predated the Fifth City. (It's only appropriate.) This means that Shadows over Baker Street, weirdly appropriate as it may be, is highly unlikely as an original source.
Also, while I can't say the writers don't occasionally trade on Lovecraftian expectations, I think they play with and cheat them more than they're fulfilled. There are indeed strange cosmic beings and abundant opportunities for madness abounding in Fallen London, but they are very different from what one might expect from poking around a certain New England university. No tentacles, for one thing (though I admit there is one who wears yellow, in a sense).
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Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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Bitty
Posts: 234
1/18/2018
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I'm a big Jack Vance fan so every reference to a Vance work makes me happy
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Siankan
Posts: 1048
2/3/2018
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A fairly obvious one (says the man who forgot it until he saw it): The Echo title for the Consideration for Services Rendered card is "Midnight in the gardens of the Brass Embassy," which I take as a reference to Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil. A very simple sort of reference, but potentially weighty the more I consider it.
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Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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Siankan
Posts: 1048
1/22/2018
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CatLady wrote:
As for "All shall be well", it is uch older - in fact, it originates in the traditions of Anchorite:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchorite
...which, by the way, is also referenced in one of "closest to" artistic movements.
Specifically the anchoress Julian of Norwich. See above.
edited by Siankan on 1/22/2018
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Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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Siankan
Posts: 1048
1/25/2018
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We really should have some Dickens, no? While the Urchins as a whole owe a lot to Oliver Twist, a much more direct reference can be found in the mouth of that old rogue, Silas the Showman. I don't have the text on-hand (and perhaps that would spoilers even if I did), but if you invite him in having already made his acquaintance, he starts his speech with an adaptation of what is affectionately known as the Micawber Principle:
"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery."
The words come from Wilkins Micawber, an important secondary character in David Copperfield (and, as you might expect, more familiar with the second result).
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
1/22/2018
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Siankan wrote:
Now as you mention it, there are other Arthurian references tickling my brain, but I can't remember what they were or where they were found. Anyone have a better memory than I do right now?
There's a whole load of allusions in SMEN, with Arthur, Gawain, Carbonek, and a bunch of others currently evading my memory.
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Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
 Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Rasvarmo
Posts: 54
1/22/2018
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Siankan wrote:
The Cosmopolitan wrote:
Another interesting detail about The Waste Land connection is that one potential interpretation is that it is a version of the old legend of the Fisher King, which, of course, is referenced by the name of our favourite urchin gang.
Good reminder. Whether mediated by Eliot or not, the Fisher Kings are certainly a pretty bald reference, so chalk one up for the Matter of Britain (well say Malory's Le Morte d'Arthur, though you can't really say, "yes, definitely this version!"). Now as you mention it, there are other Arthurian references tickling my brain, but I can't remember what they were or where they were found. Anyone have a better memory than I do right now?
Perhaps a bit of a stretch, but the trope about Fisher Kings (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FisherKing) can tie in to our Urchin gang too. The Urchins are the ones who commune with Storm, right? They would thus have the closest connection to weather in Fallen London.
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Rasvarmo - a lady of distinction and ambition. Open to social exchanges.
"No records. No writings. Words can be treacherous. If a story is important, it will be remembered."
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Siankan
Posts: 1048
1/23/2018
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Since we're collecting at this point, the "Run deep, run quiet" action on the zub-enabled Submerge card is a nod to the WWII submarine novel (later adapted to film) Run Silent, Run Deep.
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Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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Jermaine Vendredi
Posts: 588
1/24/2018
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It's subtle, but I wonder if the Masters' imposing of customs duty on speckled eggs (sidebar) is a reference to Gerard Manley Hopkins's poem "Pied Beauty".
edited by Jermaine Vendredi on 1/24/2018
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Siankan
Posts: 1048
1/24/2018
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Jermaine Vendredi wrote:
It's subtle, but I wonder if the Masters' imposing of customs duty on speckled eggs (sidebar) is a reference to Gerard Manley Hopkins's poem "Pied Beauty".
I'd love it if it were; Hopkins is a favorite poet. (I'll also admit extra, alogical fondness for this poem, due to being friends with an editor at Dappled Things.) I don't see it, though. Although Hopkins uses near-synonyms like "stippled" and "freckled," the word "speckled" never appears in "Pied Beauty." Also, the poem's so tonally different from the bulk of Fallen London's literary connections that a plain reference, without irony, would stick out like a sore thumb.
That said, I'd love to hear Hopkins' opinion on this whole "disappearing London" bit. Alas, he'd have been buried a few years by 1896, and I don't mean in the Neath.
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Cosmo Beck
Posts: 33
1/21/2018
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Siankan wrote:
The five sections of T. S. Eliot's The Waste Land are "The Burial of the Dead," "A Game of Chess," "The Fire Sermon," "Death by Water," and "What the Thunder Said"--which nicely covers five of the six standard dream qualities, as well as making the whole thing seem much more depressing. Another interesting detail about The Waste Land connection is that one potential interpretation is that it is a version of the old legend of the Fisher King, which, of course, is referenced by the name of our favourite urchin gang.
Speaking of Neil Gaiman, I can't believe nobody's mentioned Neverwhere, or maybe someone has and I've just missed it.
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phryne
Posts: 1351
1/19/2018
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Surprised no one has mentioned the (admittedly tiny) Blade Runner reference yet...
GregM wrote:
I just marked this as "Accepted answer" and it turned a horrible shade of green, so I'm...going to avoid that in the future. There's a fix for that.
edited by phryne on 1/19/2018
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Elaina Schill
Posts: 191
2/20/2018
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Siankan wrote:
We really should have some Dickens, no? \
Also for the urchins, the description for the Winsome Disposessed Urchin is "One has to pick a pocket or two. Regrettably." which I'm pretty certain is a direct reference to the musical's "you've got to pick a pocket or two." And also a certain song that does certain things to certain creatures. I enjoyed the bit from the recent exceptional story, two pence to feed the bats. It might be a stretch to connect it to Mary Poppins' "Feed the Birds" (tuppence a bag) but I smiled nonetheless. [spoiler]Plus, when you play charades with your weasels on the "You seem to have purchased an extraordinary number of weasels" card, the thing the weasel is charading that wins you the game is La Mort d'Arthur(or however you spell it)[/spoiler]
edited by Iona Dre'emt on 3/1/2018
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Main, Phiri Ulfur, the Cunning Shadow. Their heart belongs to a Pirate-Poet across the Zee.
Alt Vermillion Liminate, the Tragic Scholar.
Alt #2,Lady Jacqueline Blackwood, the Savage Beauty.
Alt #3, Veracity Taylor, the Dame of the Docks.
The Dogged Seeker, self explanatory.
I will accept any social actions on Fallen London(unless its a box of live rats. I already got rid of the d---ned things once and am not eager to repeat the endeavor).
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Saklad
Posts: 528
3/1/2018
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The Fourth City, Frostfound, parts of the Elder Continent, and arguably the Neath is likely inspired by Coleridge’s Kubla Khan.
Sunless Sea is certainly named after it.
edited by Saklad5 on 3/1/2018
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Elaina Schill
Posts: 191
3/3/2018
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Also in the Labyrinth's second coil [spoiler]There's an unknown creature named Arthur in a lake[/spoiler]
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Main, Phiri Ulfur, the Cunning Shadow. Their heart belongs to a Pirate-Poet across the Zee.
Alt Vermillion Liminate, the Tragic Scholar.
Alt #2,Lady Jacqueline Blackwood, the Savage Beauty.
Alt #3, Veracity Taylor, the Dame of the Docks.
The Dogged Seeker, self explanatory.
I will accept any social actions on Fallen London(unless its a box of live rats. I already got rid of the d---ned things once and am not eager to repeat the endeavor).
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Greg M
Posts: 197
4/19/2018
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ANOTHER Monty Python, even better:
The Connected Pet of the Tomb Colonies is a bandaged, probably dead raven in a cage, which the owner insists is alive, and has "lovely plumage!"
I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE PLUMAGE, IT'S BLEEDIN' DE-MISED!
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Greg M
Posts: 197
3/1/2018
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Indeed; I have now the most prominent source of those, and they were delightful. (FL itself is one giant collection of labyrinths and mirrors, especially in the, ah, LABYRINTH of tigers...)
checkmate wrote:
No mention of Borges or Calvino?
There are direct references, if you can find them.
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vinceren
Posts: 53
1/20/2018
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I personally let out a delighted little chuckle at the Morelways 1872 description; a lot of item descriptions are hiding really fun little tidbits.
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Venitor, Rat-Catcher, Hunting a Legend.
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Siankan
Posts: 1048
1/21/2018
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The Cosmopolitan wrote:
Another interesting detail about The Waste Land connection is that one potential interpretation is that it is a version of the old legend of the Fisher King, which, of course, is referenced by the name of our favourite urchin gang.
Good reminder. Whether mediated by Eliot or not, the Fisher Kings are certainly a pretty bald reference, so chalk one up for the Matter of Britain (well say Malory's Le Morte d'Arthur, though you can't really say, "yes, definitely this version!"). Now as you mention it, there are other Arthurian references tickling my brain, but I can't remember what they were or where they were found. Anyone have a better memory than I do right now?
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dov
Posts: 2580
1/21/2018
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The Cosmopolitan wrote:
Speaking of Neil Gaiman, I can't believe nobody's mentioned Neverwhere, or maybe someone has and I've just missed it.
Is there a reference to Neverwhere in Fallen London? If so, I've missed it.
(other than the general similarity of some of the setting, but it's a stretch to say one is a reference to the other)
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Cosmo Beck
Posts: 33
1/22/2018
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I appreciate that the Neverwhere thing is a bit of a stretch of the theme. I was really just thinking of the similarities in tone, atmosphere, and, yes, setting.
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Fluffy
Posts: 41
2/12/2018
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The entire plot of The Haunting At The Marsh House is a reference to Ruddigore/Ruddygore.
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Plynkes
Posts: 631
2/15/2018
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Recently spotted in the Who Else is Here? section: It shouldn't happen to a veterinarian. (which I only vaguely remember playing through - something about murdering someone for Mr. Inch?)
James Herriot reference there. Never read the books, but the TV series was regular family viewing as a kid.
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"Then tell Wind and Fire where to stop, but don't tell me."
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Phèdre Delaunay
Posts: 25
2/20/2018
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One of the gifts you could give during the Festival of the Rose was an ushabti, and the text went "Sometimes an ushabti is just an ushabti."
This is a refence to Sigmund Freud's famous quote, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" (he reportedly delivered it when someone, who was aware of his theories on phallic imagery, made a joke about the cigar Freud was smoking...)
edited by Phèdre Delaunay on 2/20/2018
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