CatLady
Posts: 53
1/22/2018
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dov wrote:
The Cosmopolitan wrote:
Speaking of Neil Gaiman, I can't believe nobody's mentioned Neverwhere, or maybe someone has and I've just missed it.
Is there a reference to Neverwhere in Fallen London? If so, I've missed it.
Oh c'mon, underground London with streets and locations with both name and function "transformed" is a reference in itself. I wouldn't be surprised if author never had "Neverwhere" in mind, but - willing or not - it is first thing that always comes to mind, when readers of the book meet Fallen London.
As for "All shall be well", it is uch older - in fact, it originates in the traditions of Anchorite:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchorite
...which, by the way, is also referenced in one of "closest to" artistic movements.
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Siankan
Posts: 1048
1/22/2018
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CatLady wrote:
As for "All shall be well", it is uch older - in fact, it originates in the traditions of Anchorite:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchorite
...which, by the way, is also referenced in one of "closest to" artistic movements.
Specifically the anchoress Julian of Norwich. See above.
edited by Siankan on 1/22/2018
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dov
Posts: 2580
1/22/2018
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CatLady wrote:
dov wrote:
Is there a reference to Neverwhere in Fallen London? If so, I've missed it.
Oh c'mon, underground London with streets and locations with both name and function "transformed" is a reference in itself. I wouldn't be surprised if author never had "Neverwhere" in mind, but - willing or not - it is first thing that always comes to mind, when readers of the book meet Fallen London.
I've read Neverwhere many many times (probably my most-read Gaiman book, and I highly recommend reading (and/or re-reading) it before every visit to London).
But besides some minor similarity in settings (fantastical version of London, some of which is underground) I see no actual literary reference in Fallen London to Neverwhere (see the other references in this thread for examples, from direct Monty Python quotes, to chapter titles from T.S. Eliot, etc.).
And Neverwhere is not about taking London to an underground setting. It's about finding out that underneath (and above, and in between) the real (and modern!) London there's another layer of it with fantastical elements.
Could Fallen London have been influenced by Neverwhere? Possibly, if Alexis and others at FBG have read it (which is not unlikely). But that's not the same as including a reference to it.
edited by dov on 1/22/2018
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Cosmo Beck
Posts: 33
1/22/2018
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I appreciate that the Neverwhere thing is a bit of a stretch of the theme. I was really just thinking of the similarities in tone, atmosphere, and, yes, setting.
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Professor Evelyn 'Cosmo' Beck-Scholar of diverse interests. And dubious means.
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checkmate
Posts: 6
1/22/2018
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No mention of Borges or Calvino?
There are direct references, if you can find them.
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Rasvarmo
Posts: 54
1/22/2018
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Siankan wrote:
The Cosmopolitan wrote:
Another interesting detail about The Waste Land connection is that one potential interpretation is that it is a version of the old legend of the Fisher King, which, of course, is referenced by the name of our favourite urchin gang.
Good reminder. Whether mediated by Eliot or not, the Fisher Kings are certainly a pretty bald reference, so chalk one up for the Matter of Britain (well say Malory's Le Morte d'Arthur, though you can't really say, "yes, definitely this version!"). Now as you mention it, there are other Arthurian references tickling my brain, but I can't remember what they were or where they were found. Anyone have a better memory than I do right now?
Perhaps a bit of a stretch, but the trope about Fisher Kings (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FisherKing) can tie in to our Urchin gang too. The Urchins are the ones who commune with Storm, right? They would thus have the closest connection to weather in Fallen London.
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Siankan
Posts: 1048
1/23/2018
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Since we're collecting at this point, the "Run deep, run quiet" action on the zub-enabled Submerge card is a nod to the WWII submarine novel (later adapted to film) Run Silent, Run Deep.
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Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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Jermaine Vendredi
Posts: 588
1/24/2018
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It's subtle, but I wonder if the Masters' imposing of customs duty on speckled eggs (sidebar) is a reference to Gerard Manley Hopkins's poem "Pied Beauty".
edited by Jermaine Vendredi on 1/24/2018
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Siankan
Posts: 1048
1/24/2018
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Jermaine Vendredi wrote:
It's subtle, but I wonder if the Masters' imposing of customs duty on speckled eggs (sidebar) is a reference to Gerard Manley Hopkins's poem "Pied Beauty".
I'd love it if it were; Hopkins is a favorite poet. (I'll also admit extra, alogical fondness for this poem, due to being friends with an editor at Dappled Things.) I don't see it, though. Although Hopkins uses near-synonyms like "stippled" and "freckled," the word "speckled" never appears in "Pied Beauty." Also, the poem's so tonally different from the bulk of Fallen London's literary connections that a plain reference, without irony, would stick out like a sore thumb.
That said, I'd love to hear Hopkins' opinion on this whole "disappearing London" bit. Alas, he'd have been buried a few years by 1896, and I don't mean in the Neath.
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Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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Siankan
Posts: 1048
1/25/2018
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We really should have some Dickens, no? While the Urchins as a whole owe a lot to Oliver Twist, a much more direct reference can be found in the mouth of that old rogue, Silas the Showman. I don't have the text on-hand (and perhaps that would spoilers even if I did), but if you invite him in having already made his acquaintance, he starts his speech with an adaptation of what is affectionately known as the Micawber Principle:
"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery."
The words come from Wilkins Micawber, an important secondary character in David Copperfield (and, as you might expect, more familiar with the second result).
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Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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dov
Posts: 2580
1/25/2018
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Siankan wrote:
We really should have some Dickens, no?
Well, in the case of Dickens, the man himself is walking the streets of Fallen London and is a frequently appearing character.
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Siankan
Posts: 1048
2/3/2018
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A fairly obvious one (says the man who forgot it until he saw it): The Echo title for the Consideration for Services Rendered card is "Midnight in the gardens of the Brass Embassy," which I take as a reference to Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil. A very simple sort of reference, but potentially weighty the more I consider it.
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Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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Plynkes
Posts: 631
2/10/2018
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I have a new favourite reference. On a new character picking pockets in Spite I found a Tolkien reference. Didn't spot that years ago when I was there with my first character.
What did they have in their pocketses?
Hadn't noticed any Tolkien references in the game before I saw this.
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"Then tell Wind and Fire where to stop, but don't tell me."
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Fluffy
Posts: 41
2/12/2018
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The entire plot of The Haunting At The Marsh House is a reference to Ruddigore/Ruddygore.
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Plynkes
Posts: 631
2/15/2018
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Recently spotted in the Who Else is Here? section: It shouldn't happen to a veterinarian. (which I only vaguely remember playing through - something about murdering someone for Mr. Inch?)
James Herriot reference there. Never read the books, but the TV series was regular family viewing as a kid.
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"Then tell Wind and Fire where to stop, but don't tell me."
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Phèdre Delaunay
Posts: 25
2/20/2018
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One of the gifts you could give during the Festival of the Rose was an ushabti, and the text went "Sometimes an ushabti is just an ushabti."
This is a refence to Sigmund Freud's famous quote, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" (he reportedly delivered it when someone, who was aware of his theories on phallic imagery, made a joke about the cigar Freud was smoking...)
edited by Phèdre Delaunay on 2/20/2018
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Elaina Schill
Posts: 191
2/20/2018
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Siankan wrote:
We really should have some Dickens, no? \
Also for the urchins, the description for the Winsome Disposessed Urchin is "One has to pick a pocket or two. Regrettably." which I'm pretty certain is a direct reference to the musical's "you've got to pick a pocket or two." And also a certain song that does certain things to certain creatures. I enjoyed the bit from the recent exceptional story, two pence to feed the bats. It might be a stretch to connect it to Mary Poppins' "Feed the Birds" (tuppence a bag) but I smiled nonetheless. [spoiler]Plus, when you play charades with your weasels on the "You seem to have purchased an extraordinary number of weasels" card, the thing the weasel is charading that wins you the game is La Mort d'Arthur(or however you spell it)[/spoiler]
edited by Iona Dre'emt on 3/1/2018
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Alt Vermillion Liminate, the Tragic Scholar.
Alt #2,Lady Jacqueline Blackwood, the Savage Beauty.
Alt #3, Veracity Taylor, the Dame of the Docks.
The Dogged Seeker, self explanatory.
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Greg M
Posts: 197
3/1/2018
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Indeed; I have now the most prominent source of those, and they were delightful. (FL itself is one giant collection of labyrinths and mirrors, especially in the, ah, LABYRINTH of tigers...)
checkmate wrote:
No mention of Borges or Calvino?
There are direct references, if you can find them.
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Available for any non-harmful social interactions.
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Saklad
Posts: 528
3/1/2018
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The Fourth City, Frostfound, parts of the Elder Continent, and arguably the Neath is likely inspired by Coleridge’s Kubla Khan.
Sunless Sea is certainly named after it.
edited by Saklad5 on 3/1/2018
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Saklad5, a man of many talents
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Elaina Schill
Posts: 191
3/3/2018
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Also in the Labyrinth's second coil [spoiler]There's an unknown creature named Arthur in a lake[/spoiler]
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Main, Phiri Ulfur, the Cunning Shadow. Their heart belongs to a Pirate-Poet across the Zee.
Alt Vermillion Liminate, the Tragic Scholar.
Alt #2,Lady Jacqueline Blackwood, the Savage Beauty.
Alt #3, Veracity Taylor, the Dame of the Docks.
The Dogged Seeker, self explanatory.
I will accept any social actions on Fallen London(unless its a box of live rats. I already got rid of the d---ned things once and am not eager to repeat the endeavor).
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