James Sinclair
Posts: 253
1/5/2018
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Although the Neath has a wide variety of strange monsters and other intelligent creatures, newcomers are often unnerved by the ability of many common animals to speak. Even those that can't speak often exhibit an increased degree of intelligence and sentience. I assume that the light from the Mountain has something to do with this, but for now I'm trying to put together a list of all common animals that are able to speak in the Neath but not on the Surface. Here's what I have so far:
- Cats (domestic cats, Elder Continent tiger subspecies)
- Rats (but only the Rattus Faber subspecies; most rats cannot speak. Why?)
- Birds: ravens, mynahs, macaws
- Dogs (the only speaking example I found was the Hungover Terrier)
- Monkeys
- Guinea Pigs (Pigmote Island)
Here's a list of creatures that are more intelligent than their Surface relatives, but I'm not sure if any of them are capable of human speech (if you have an Echo of any of these animals speaking, please share):
- Bats
- Weasels (can the Celebrated Weasel actually talk? Can 'regular' Lucky Weasels talk?)
- Tortoises (Partisan Messenger Tortoise)
- Moles (Subtle Mole)
Also, does anyone know if the increased intelligence and speaking ability apply only to animals born in the Neath, or will animals brought down from the Surface start talking and getting smarter? I don't recall if this ever came up.
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James Sinclair
Curator of the Sanguine Ribbon Society 🗡
 A fully-fledged rêveur of The Night Circus.
Wines is red
Spices is yellow
But old Jack-of-Smiles
Is a murderous fellow
☠
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Bitty
Posts: 234
1/5/2018
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Although I don't have proof to back this up i'm pretty sure bats can talk, at least some of them, other wise how can you tell where they've been in Sunless Sea/Skies
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
1/5/2018
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Foxes can also probably talk, if only we could find some.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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John Moose
Posts: 276
1/5/2018
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I went to check the bandaged raven, and found something interesting: it's a surface raven that's been imported to the Neath, and one of the options on its card has it telling you stories of the surface, apparently in human language: "She paints such vivid pictures with her words. " This would imply that animals gain both intelligence and language - if they can - just by arriving in the Neath. Maybe all ravens and cats are roughly as smart as humans, but only Neath's lawlessness allows them to talk?
If Goat Demons count, they seem to be very intelligent. I have a vague recollection of some even talking in 5 Minutes to Midday, but could be remembering wrong.
Sorrow-spiders range from beastly to smart to eloquent, and are at least ostensibly "common surface animals" (spiders).
The gold fish that becomes Haunted seems to at least understand human speech.
Weasels seem to be mute, or at least every situation I remember / can find including weasels/ferrets in SS/FL has them mostly express opinions through body language - this might be intentionally vague.
In the same way, bats are a bit vague - they interact with humans a whole lot, and one even gives an interview to Huffam in squeaks. Whether these squeaks are in English or whether Huffam is just fluent in bat is left open. The scouting results in Skies could be either the bat having some very expressive frowns and pointing at a direction with a wing, or it talking to you - again, seems intentionally vague. WIth both of these I'd put my bet on "doesn't speak human language", but it's not impossible that they do.
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al2o3cr
Posts: 66
1/5/2018
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And then there's the Blemmigans, though technically sentient fungus isn't an animal (no matter how much poetry it writes).
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James Sinclair
Posts: 253
1/5/2018
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John Moose wrote:
I went to check the bandaged raven, and found something interesting: it's a surface raven that's been imported to the Neath, and one of the options on its card has it telling you stories of the surface, apparently in human language: "She paints such vivid pictures with her words. " This would imply that animals gain both intelligence and language - if they can - just by arriving in the Neath. Maybe all ravens and cats are roughly as smart as humans, but only Neath's lawlessness allows them to talk?
I'd forgotten about the origins of the Bandaged Raven...very interesting! That the Raven developed speech only after arriving in the Neath leads to some truly Extraordinary Implications indeed for all Surface animals.
I also remembered that you can recruit a Bengal Tigress at the Bazaar. The Bengal Tiger is a real-world subspecies of tiger, which implies that the Tigress has been imported from the Surface. However, during the Feast of Masks it's possible for your tigress to reveal that she is in fact from the Elder Continent, which confuses the issue. Either all Elder Continent tigers are somehow Bengal tigers, or your "unique" tigress was lying about being a Bengal but other recruited tigers ARE from the Surface. Or maybe the liar was one of those villains at Nassos Zoologicals; I wouldn't put it past them.
John Moose wrote:
If Goat Demons count, they seem to be very intelligent. I have a vague recollection of some even talking in 5 Minutes to Midday, but could be remembering wrong.
Sorrow-spiders range from beastly to smart to eloquent, and are at least ostensibly "common surface animals" (spiders).
Goat-Demons, I'm quite sure, have their origin in Hell (or possibly Parabola). As for Sorrow-Spiders, I don't have any journal echos or Sunless Sea quotes on hand, but I seem to recall evidence in Sunless Sea that they are actually alien creatures from the High Wilderness beyond Earth.
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James Sinclair
Curator of the Sanguine Ribbon Society 🗡
A fully-fledged rêveur of The Night Circus.
Wines is red
Spices is yellow
But old Jack-of-Smiles
Is a murderous fellow
☠
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Lady Sapho Byron
Posts: 770
1/5/2018
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It's my impression that Reprehensible Lizards are considerably smarter than Surface lizards, but there's not text that actually proves this.
Also, I have a maddeningly vague memory of some snippet with talking horses ... but maybe that's from someplace other than FL ...
Edit: "You set the pail down before it, bow (pigs like that) and withdraw," suggests some more-than-Surface-pig intelligence for London's marsh pigs.
edited by Lady Sapho Byron on 1/5/2018
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http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Lady%20Sapho%20L%20Byron
Fighting the Menace of Corsetry Since 1892.
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Six Handed Merchant
Posts: 141
1/5/2018
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James Sinclair wrote:
Goat-Demons, I'm quite sure, have their origin in Hell (or possibly Parabola). As for Sorrow-Spiders, I don't have any journal echos or Sunless Sea quotes on hand, but I seem to recall evidence in Sunless Sea that they are actually alien creatures from the High Wilderness beyond Earth.
They're not all from Saviour's Rocks? Or is that just where they landed?
I believe sorrow-spider intelligence manifests once they join together to form a spider-council. I haven't seen sorrow-spiders talk by themselves, but once they are part of a council they become quite erudite, if I do say so myself. Also, I believe that their intelligence is lost if they are ever separated from the council. (Although this must be for younger councils, as the old ones are quite...solidly built.)
edited by Six Handed Merchant on 1/5/2018
--
The Six Handed Merchant: If it's the truth you seek, The Six Handed Merchant is the gentlemen-, er, lady-, er, detective you need! Just pay no heed to that Eradication Officer tailing Six: that poor fellow is simply out of his mind!
Six's Mantlepiece (I am available for roleplaying and SAs. My schedule is pretty full, so please PM me first to work out the details.)
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
1/5/2018
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Not quite, spider councils are born, not made. (Though there is a lost art...but no matter, chasing after legends is a foolish endeavor)
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
1/6/2018
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James Sinclair wrote:
As for Sorrow-Spiders, I don't have any journal echos or Sunless Sea quotes on hand, but I seem to recall evidence in Sunless Sea that they are actually alien creatures from the High Wilderness beyond Earth.
It would certainly seem so. From looting the Tree of Ages:
"Voices cry out in the languages spoken between the stars. The sorrow-spiders have come far, to lair in this place, and now you have ended their fierce lives."
--
Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
 Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Catherine Raymond
Posts: 2518
1/6/2018
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James Sinclair wrote:
Although the Neath has a wide variety of strange monsters and other intelligent creatures, newcomers are often unnerved by the ability of many common animals to speak. Even those that can't speak often exhibit an increased degree of intelligence and sentience. I assume that the light from the Mountain has something to do with this, but for now I'm trying to put together a list of all common animals that are able to speak in the Neath but not on the Surface. Here's what I have so far:
- Cats (domestic cats, Elder Continent tiger subspecies)
- Rats (but only the Rattus Faber subspecies; most rats cannot speak. Why?)
- Birds: ravens, mynahs, macaws
- Dogs (the only speaking example I found was the Hungover Terrier)
- Monkeys
- Guinea Pigs (Pigmote Island)
Here's a list of creatures that are more intelligent than their Surface relatives, but I'm not sure if any of them are capable of human speech (if you have an Echo of any of these animals speaking, please share):
- Bats
- Weasels (can the Celebrated Weasel actually talk? Can 'regular' Lucky Weasels talk?)
- Tortoises (Partisan Messenger Tortoise)
- Moles (Subtle Mole)
Also, does anyone know if the increased intelligence and speaking ability apply only to animals born in the Neath, or will animals brought down from the Surface start talking and getting smarter? I don't recall if this ever came up.
Most of the cats we meet can speak. Tigers and housecats of course, but also the Corresponding Ocelot.
The Haunted-Looking Dog also speaks. "Cats, cats, everywhere!"
I've seen no indication that the birds who speak have more understanding that the corresponding birds who speak outside the Neath.
The Weaseler storylet doesn't indicate whether Weasels can speak, but they play a mean game of charades and cheat at cribbage.
And no, I recall no clue about why rats divided into Rattus Faber, who speak, bury their dead, and use tools to *excellent* effect, and ordinary rats.
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Cathy Raymond
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355
Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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Six Handed Merchant
Posts: 141
1/6/2018
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suinicide wrote:
Not quite, spider councils are born, not made. (Though there is a lost art...but no matter, chasing after legends is a foolish endeavor)
Interesting. There's a lot of vague references spread about regarding councils, like this echo which seems to describe spiders becoming separated from a council and loosing their intelligence with it. But it's also vague and a dream, so take from it what you will. I never found an echo detailing exactly how they are made yet.
Regardless (and so as to not derail the thread) I have seen no evidence of non-space-faring spiders talking (and even then, only in councils), so normal spiders seem to fall outside the intelligence list.
edited by Six Handed Merchant on 1/6/2018
--
The Six Handed Merchant: If it's the truth you seek, The Six Handed Merchant is the gentlemen-, er, lady-, er, detective you need! Just pay no heed to that Eradication Officer tailing Six: that poor fellow is simply out of his mind!
Six's Mantlepiece (I am available for roleplaying and SAs. My schedule is pretty full, so please PM me first to work out the details.)
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Odin, All-father
Posts: 15
1/6/2018
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Once you begin to leave the domain of Law most things seem to eventually develop consciousness and a mind. The combination of the Neath hiding those within from Their Judgement and the shear blossoming life to the South seem to provide excellent conditions for realisation of self. Indeed in some locations (both in the Neath and those considerably more... other) the difficulty lies in finding something that isn't actively conscious.
It's also possibly worth noting that the devouring of those higher in the Chain is a known method method for bringing about one's own ascension. And personally I can't help but be suspicions of the fact that the Pigmote guinea pigs are quite enthusiastically carnivorous.
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Anchovies
Posts: 421
1/6/2018
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Six Handed Merchant wrote:
Regardless (and so as to not derail the thread) I have seen no evidence of non-space-faring spiders talking (and even then, only in councils), so normal spiders seem to fall outside the intelligence list. Thankfully, not all of the Neath's spiders are apocalyptically evil torturemonsters (seriously, the sorrow-spiders won't even talk to you unless you're blind and addicted to their venom-drugs, and even then they won't regard you as more than a disposable tool). In the Season of Sceptres we learned quite a bit about the Presbyterate kingdom of Vesture. Although the spiders kept by Vesture's noble houses can grow large enough to easily outmatch armed humans one-on-one, the spiders seem to develop only a basic animal intelligence.
Catherine Raymond wrote:
The Haunted-Looking Dog also speaks. "Cats, cats, everywhere!" I think the "quote" is an interpretation of the dog's body language and haunted appearance, since no other dogs in FL show any sign of uncommon intelligence.
Catherine Raymond wrote:
I've seen no indication that the birds who speak have more understanding that the corresponding birds who speak outside the Neath. You may be correct as far as the taciturn mynah and elegaic cockatoo are concerned, but the ravens in the Neath have a clear capacity for humanlike intelligence. Dazed raven advisors can be upgraded along two paths, promoting either their wisdom or their cunning.
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Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God — but to create Him.
—Sir Arthur C Clarke
Lionel Anchovies. Character on indefinite hiatus.
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Tystefy
Posts: 450
1/6/2018
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o/
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Will sometimes return to post absurdity.
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
1/6/2018
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Catherine Raymond wrote:
And no, I recall no clue about why rats divided into Rattus Faber, who speak, bury their dead, and use tools to *excellent* effect, and ordinary rats.
Is that actually the case? The only reference to ordinary rats that I can recall is a story you make up for your Working Rat to pacify him over owning a Ratskin Suit.
--
Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Catherine Raymond
Posts: 2518
1/6/2018
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Anchovies wrote:
Six Handed Merchant wrote:
Regardless (and so as to not derail the thread) I have seen no evidence of non-space-faring spiders talking (and even then, only in councils), so normal spiders seem to fall outside the intelligence list. Thankfully, not all of the Neath's spiders are apocalyptically evil torturemonsters (seriously, the sorrow-spiders won't even talk to you unless you're blind and addicted to their venom-drugs, and even then they won't regard you as more than a disposable tool). In the Season of Sceptres we learned quite a bit about the Presbyterate kingdom of Vesture. Although the spiders kept by Vesture's noble houses can grow large enough to easily outmatch armed humans one-on-one, the spiders seem to develop only a basic animal intelligence.
Catherine Raymond wrote:
The Haunted-Looking Dog also speaks. "Cats, cats, everywhere!" I think the "quote" is an interpretation of the dog's body language and haunted appearance, since no other dogs in FL show any sign of uncommon intelligence.
Catherine Raymond wrote:
I've seen no indication that the birds who speak have more understanding that the corresponding birds who speak outside the Neath. You may be correct as far as the taciturn mynah and elegaic cockatoo are concerned, but the ravens in the Neath have a clear capacity for humanlike intelligence. Dazed raven advisors can be upgraded along two paths, promoting either their wisdom or their cunning.
That is a point, and I should know that (I have several!). So I stand corrected. I'm trying to remember whether they're recorded as actually speaking though.
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Cathy Raymond
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355
Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
1/6/2018
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Their item descriptions certainly imply that they can do so.
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Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.
Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
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CatLady
Posts: 53
1/6/2018
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Optimatum wrote:
Catherine Raymond wrote:
And no, I recall no clue about why rats divided into Rattus Faber, who speak, bury their dead, and use tools to *excellent* effect, and ordinary rats.
Is that actually the case? The only reference to ordinary rats that I can recall is a story you make up for your Working Rat to pacify him over owning a Ratskin Suit.
In numerous places, it was mentioned that LB's utilize regular, trained rats as assassins, or cannon fodder (Vermin-free, anyone?)
As for Sorrow Spiders, I would guess that the "language spoken between stars" quote suggest correspondence ties of spider council, not their origin. But then, the path about coming long way to nest here... I would say 50/50.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/CatLady_
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Aberrant Eremite
Posts: 362
1/7/2018
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I just got this text:
"Roughly does it"
A few heads knocked together and you've established a set of possible facts. The boxes were used for transporting tomb-colonists; they are the home of a respected family of toads; they were ordered by Mr Cups from somewhere outside London; they are stacked upright so that the blood doesn't drain out; they were constructed by staff at the Shuttered Palace as a holiday retreat for friends of the Duchess.
It takes some persuasion before the Reluctant Newsmonger agrees to pay you for the information.
While "a respected family" - as reported by humans - doesn't unequivocally denote intelligent speech, I would argue that it's likely. Why else would humans (and poorly-educated thugs, at that) respect toads?
edited by Aberrant Eremite on 1/7/2018
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Hieronymus Drake: Gentleman scholar, big-game hunter, scar-faced aristocrat. Remarkably sane, all things considered.
Tanith Wyrmwood: Longshanks cat-burglar; Bohemian author; now, perhaps, something more. Bubbly, expressive, and affectionate. It’s not only still waters that run deep.
Telemachia Lee: Gentle lady by birth, brawling Docker by choice. Good company in the drunk tank.
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