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Fallen London Reworks: Dilmun Club Messages in this topic - RSS

Tay1or
Tay1or
Posts: 165

11/3/2017
Definitely my favorite of all the new updates! Wow--love the art, the text for getting tokens, taking tea with the ministers--all of it! Very, very cool! I've got a couple alts that have been hesitating to kicked out of court--well they're getting kicked out as soon as Hallowmass is over!
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Dima Lazarev
Dima Lazarev
Posts: 172

11/4/2017
I have a tiger! Do you have a tiger?



--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Dima Lazarev
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Constance Harrow
Constance Harrow
Posts: 26

11/5/2017
The Minister of Enigmas is a good-not-profitable source for Searing Enigma.
Will the eventual conclusion of The Dilmun Club result in a Club? I kinda don't see myself as a Stag or Parthanon.
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Catherine Raymond
Catherine Raymond
Posts: 2713

11/5/2017
Dima Lazarev wrote:
I have a tiger! Do you have a tiger?



I am working on amassing the tribute for my second Tiger even as we ur...type. (I should amass all 720 remaining tribute at once, but I can't stand the suspense, and I'm not prepared to plunk down enough cash to do it in one go, though I could.)

--
Cathy Raymond
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355

Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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Constance Harrow
Constance Harrow
Posts: 26

11/5/2017
Although, maybe profitable? Four moves to get twenty tribute, twenty moves for the favour route, sacrificing about 42 echo action from said favours. And then, two sea voyages, negated with bulk tribute, but still, they can be ten plus action ordeals.
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Tay1or
Tay1or
Posts: 165

11/5/2017
The ministers are amazing companions! And the +10 stat boost puts them above many of the event companions that I seldom activate. Putting it after getting banished and serving a term as governor makes it feel like you earned them, too. Love this update--my favorite so far.
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dov
dov
Posts: 2580

11/5/2017
Constance Harrow wrote:
Although, maybe profitable? Four moves to get twenty tribute, twenty moves for the favour route, sacrificing about 42 echo action from said favours. And then, two sea voyages, negated with bulk tribute, but still, they can be ten plus action ordeals.

As far as I understand:
  • 20 actions to get Favours (ignoring potential additional costs here, like items and menaces).
  • 4 actions go convert Favours into Tribute (5 at a time)
  • 4 actions to trade 20 x Favours into 62.5 echo item(s)

EPA: 62.5 / 28 = ~2.232


Note that when simply trading these Favours normally (via "Calling in Favours at..."), you normally get 2.1 EPA (more for conflict cards).

So the extra profit is marginal when comparing to using the Favours normally (not even taking into account two zee trips and the opportunity cost of being in London for a while).

--
Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how.
(Most social actions are welcome. Please no requests to Loiter Suspiciously and no investigations of the Affluent Photographer)
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Constance Harrow
Constance Harrow
Posts: 26

11/5/2017
dov wrote:
Constance Harrow wrote:
Although, maybe profitable? Four moves to get twenty tribute, twenty moves for the favour route, sacrificing about 42 echo action from said favours. And then, two sea voyages, negated with bulk tribute, but still, they can be ten plus action ordeals.

As far as I understand:
  • 20 actions to get Favours (ignoring potential additional costs here, like items and menaces).
  • 4 actions go convert Favours into Tribute (5 at a time)
  • 4 actions to trade 20 x Favours into 62.5 echo item(s)

EPA: 62.5 / 28 = ~2.232


Note that when simply trading these Favours normally (via "Calling in Favours at..."), you normally get 2.1 EPA (more for conflict cards).

So the extra profit is marginal when comparing to using the Favours normally (not even taking into account two zee trips and the opportunity cost of being in London for a while).


About what I figured, but still, fateless, reliable enigmas that don't require grinding uncanny inconabula out of implications.
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dov
dov
Posts: 2580

11/5/2017
Constance Harrow wrote:
About what I figured, but still, fateless, reliable enigmas that don't require grinding uncanny inconabula out of implications.


Yes, it's definitely a good source for Searing Enigmas (and also for Night-Whispers!).

It's just not that great a way to earn money (as some have speculated).

--
Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how.
(Most social actions are welcome. Please no requests to Loiter Suspiciously and no investigations of the Affluent Photographer)
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Optimatum
Optimatum
Posts: 3759

11/5/2017
dov wrote:
As far as I understand:
  • 20 actions to get Favours (ignoring potential additional costs here, like items and menaces).
  • 4 actions go convert Favours into Tribute (5 at a time)
  • 4 actions to trade 20 x Favours into 62.5 echo item(s)

EPA: 62.5 / 28 = ~2.232


Note that when simply trading these Favours normally (via "Calling in Favours at..."), you normally get 2.1 EPA (more for conflict cards).

So the extra profit is marginal when comparing to using the Favours normally (not even taking into account two zee trips and the opportunity cost of being in London for a while).

That's not really accurate - EPA by itself is meaningless for comparing different numbers of actions. You could trade in those Favours at 2.1 EPA, but that would take 20 actions to cash in rather than 8. If you go the tribute route, cashing them in takes only eight actions, and you'll have to spend those other 12 actions on your base grind. As such:
  • 20 actions to get Favours, ignoring additional costs
  • 4 actions to convert Favours into Tribute
  • 4 actions to turn Tribute into a 62.5 echo item
  • 12 actions spent on your base grind
62.5 + 12 * 1.75 = 83.50 echoes (Spirifage)
62.5 + 12 * 1.64 = 82.18 echoes (AotB)
  • 20 actions to get Favours, ignoring additional costs
  • 20 actions to cash in Favours for 4.2 echoes each
20 * 4.2 = 84 echoes

In other words, the Tribute grind is unambiguously worse than Calling in Favours, even ignoring actions spent at zee. It could be profitable for a different source of Tribute but that's obviously different math.
edited by Optimatum on 11/5/2017

--
Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.

Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!

PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Waterpls
Waterpls
Posts: 530

11/5/2017
Weasels are most profitable as far as i know (1.81 EpA), but staying in London with optimized deck is much better even if your base grind is worse.

Update: Offer a sizeable donation is even better. (62.5 - 50) / 6 = 2.08 EpA (not including zailing)
edited by Waterpls on 11/5/2017

--
Long grinds: Narcissistic Statues 8/8; Heptagoat Done; Cider Done
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Lamia Lawless
Lamia Lawless
Posts: 604

11/5/2017
Words can't express how excited I am about this. Smoke signals? Aggressive pantomiming?

Big Grin This emoticon will have to do.

--
The Harmonic Hellfarer
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Dima Lazarev
Dima Lazarev
Posts: 172

11/5/2017
Optimatum wrote:
…and you'll have to spend those other 12 actions on your base grind.

Why wouldn’t I spend those 12 actions on gaining more favours and then converting them into tributes instead?

--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Dima Lazarev
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Optimatum
Optimatum
Posts: 3759

11/6/2017
Dima Lazarev wrote:
Optimatum wrote:
…and you'll have to spend those other 12 actions on your base grind.

Why wouldn’t I spend those 12 actions on gaining more favours and then converting them into tributes instead?

Because Favours are primarily card-based and you'll never draw enough profitable cards to not have leftover actions. (Sure, you can get Favours other ways, but all the non-card sources are too inefficient to be profitable.)

Let's say you get those 20 Favours in 100 cards. You can cash them in using either eight or twenty actions, but either way there's no cards left in your deck, no more Favours to cash in. However many actions you have left over must go into your base grind by default. That's their purpose: base grinds are there to consume whatever actions we have left after the higher-profit cards we happen to draw.

--
Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.

Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!

PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Tay1or
Tay1or
Posts: 165

11/6/2017
It's a small, silly thing I know--but since I have a goat, when I'm in evening (watchful) mode, all four ministers are lined up in a row in my companion slots! They are actually best in slot for the other three modes for me, so the row only has 3 for them. Actually--thanks to the new Matriarch, that's true of all my alts, too--cool!
edited by Tay1or on 11/6/2017
edited by Tay1or on 11/6/2017
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Catherine Raymond
Catherine Raymond
Posts: 2713

11/6/2017
Dima Lazarev wrote:
I have a tiger! Do you have a tiger?



I have several tigers, and will have more once I have obtained the ear of all of the Ministers, as you have done!

--
Cathy Raymond
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355

Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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Jolanda Swan
Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1823

11/7/2017
I am going the Orphan route and treating it as a benevolent action of rsstoring these children back to the luxury they came from (according to their flavor text).
Grinding Cider takes forever but the accumulated cash comes handy at times like this.

--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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dov
dov
Posts: 2580

11/7/2017
How about this for EPA calculations?

Let's ignore card-based things, like Favours:
  • Buy 4 x Winsome Dispossessed Urchins (cost: 259.20 echoes)
  • Convert to 100 x Tribute (cost: 4 actions)
  • Claim 5 x boon over at the Court of the Wakeful Eye (gain: 312.5 echoes; cost: 20 actions)

Total echoes gain: 312.5 - 259.20 = 53.30 echoes
Total action cost: 24
Total EPA: 2.22

So, theoretically, if you invest enough money and actions into this it will compensate for the action cost of the two-way zee trip (and being away from London). Unlike Favours, there's no dependency on RNG and there's no Tribute cap.

Any mistakes I've made?

--
Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how.
(Most social actions are welcome. Please no requests to Loiter Suspiciously and no investigations of the Affluent Photographer)
+9 link
Skinnyman
Skinnyman
Posts: 2193

11/7/2017
dov wrote:
How about this for EPA calculations?

Let's ignore card-based things, like Favours:
  • Buy 4 x Winsome Dispossessed Urchins (cost: 259.20 echoes)
  • Convert to 100 x Tribute (cost: 4 actions)
  • Claim 5 x boon over at the Court of the Wakeful Eye (gain: 312.5 echoes; cost: 20 actions)

Total echoes gain: 312.5 - 259.20 = 53.30 echoes
Total action cost: 24
Total EPA: 2.22

So, theoretically, if you invest enough money and actions into this it will compensate for the action cost of the two-way zee trip (and being away from London). Unlike Favours, there's no dependency on RNG and there's no Tribute cap.

Any mistakes I've made?

Not sure about the mechanics, but if these are true you can use this script (run it in Dev tool's console; F12). Just modify the first two variables with your desired EPA and the approximate number of AP required for trip (and anything else).

var tripAP = 60,
targetEPA = 2.3,

input = 259.2,
output = 312.5,
dif = output - input,
AP = 24,

EPA = dif / (AP + tripAP),
rounds = 0,
totalAP = AP + tripAP;

if(targetEPA < 2.22) {
while(EPA < targetEPA) {
rounds++;
EPA = (dif * rounds) / (AP * rounds + tripAP)
}
console.log(rounds + ' rounds (' + (AP * rounds + tripAP) + ' AP) are needed to achieve an EPA of biger than ' + targetEPA + ' (' + EPA.toFixed(3) + ').You need ' + (input * rounds).toFixed(2) + ' E (' + (rounds * 4) + ' Winsome Dispossessed Urchins) to yield ' + (dif * rounds).toFixed(2) + ' extra E');
} else {
console.log('Your targetEPA must be lower than 2.22!')
}

--
ESs items and quality requirements sheet. Please check if there are errors or if something is missing
Achievement list if you're feeling bored!
I am accepting Plant battles, Neath's Mysteries card, Starveling Cats and boxed cats.
No suppers, no second chances gain and no need to cure my menaces!
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Dudebro Pyro
Dudebro Pyro
Posts: 765

11/7/2017
So in 30 rounds, you'll achieve an EPA of 2.05 (beyond which diminishing returns seem to kick in really hard), requiring an initial investment in Urchins of 7776E (so close!). Neat!

--
Dudebro Pyro, eccentric scholar

Spare Starveling Kitties always welcome. I collect them.
For that matter, send me your unwanted cat boxes too.
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