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The jump from N5 per confession to N8 is not fun.

Televangelist Posts: 109 10/24/2017	I hope that other aspects of the festival change to accommodate this huge ramp up in difficulty, because right now it's a big pile of "ugh" that has me a lot less enjoying the start of the festival. edited by Televangelist on 10/24/2017
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Absintheuse Posts: 348 10/26/2017	Delicious friends, after reviewing some feedback we've decided that this Hallowmas, 13 free confessions will be given out, in comparison to last year's 8. Thank you for your feedback on the Notability grind, it was intended to allow hardcore players to get a few more confessions than other players, but seems to function more of a burden than a kindness! We'll take this into consideration for the festival for next year.
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Màiread Posts: 385 10/24/2017	I think the fundamental problem is that notability grinding is incredibly tedious (repetitive, time consuming, little interesting text and frequentlt stressful), not particularly accessible to newer posi and is being used more and more as a hurdle to signal 'this task is difficult' regardless of whether it feels narratively apposite (Hallowmas opens with all sorts of nefarious types grabbing confessions by the sackful, so why must you be prominent in high society to obtain more?). What notability grinding isn't is meaningfully challenging (ie difficult in a way that requires skill or insight in such a way as to make overcoming the obstacle satisfying). The result is frustration and burn out, especially as more and more of the year gets taken up with walking the same path over and over again. It's worth comparing to the Election here - lots of different routes to get the festival currency, many of which you might never normally play (I'd never used polite invitation before the furst election, now I go all the time). Imagine running a heist on the house of a confession thief, or an expedition to uncover a buried cache. Plus I still think it's a shame that the old festival (a ceremony based on trust between players rather than competition, where the 'good' option was actually rewarded for once - how many mmos can boast something so unusual?) with a fundamentally venal experience wherein the only way to participate is to profit from stealing people's most guarded secrets (and no repercussions for betraying the season). It's weird to go from being a 'Sovereign of Hallowmas' to swapping secrets like pokémon cards. -- Màiread - Correspondent, composer, lover of cats. Can probably bake you a d__n fine cake. Useful Links: Traveller's Friend (Progress Tracker & Notability Calculator) \| phryne's Guide to Favours & Renown \| Peggy the Nowoman lived to see the Feast. Thank you for the memories, Snow Lady. I'm happy to accept most social actions except for lethal sparring and loitering suspiciously. Please challenge my plant! Currently not accepting calling cards.
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Mr Sables Posts: 597 10/25/2017	Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook wrote: And stop bloody complaining every time something in the game becomes more difficult or limited. I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but isn't that a little harsh? I think people have a right to constructive criticism, or even complaints, considering that a lot of time and/or money is invested into the game, and it's one in which many people are passionate about (I don't really know any other games people play continuously over a period of years, or whom people debate and theorise and contribute so much toward as a community). But to be more on-topic: Wasn't a part of the problem for the previous incarnation of Hallowmas that it got progressively more difficult each year, too, to the point it penalised and prevented new players from doing well, while end-game players just learnt to communicate better and cheat the system with newer and more improved methods? So the gap between the player-base got wider, while the game sort of achieved higher levels of difficulties? As one who only experienced one former Hallowmas incarnation, and is no way in hell notability grinding this year or last . . . I didn't really notice, but it seems like - if this is a sort of precedent - it could end up with the same problems as the old incarnation? Like . . . what happens by the time we get to 15 Notability to grind a confession? It doesn't feel like a fair difficulty/limitation to me, because it's a grind that just widens the gap. Early/Mid-game people just find it more and more difficult, to the point they might give up or be entirely unable to do it, while end-gamers can easily go it (with a bit of a moan) and will just end up learning how to grind MW easier for next year (or work out a system/spreadsheet for doing MW social actions to get higher notability) and . . . it just seems a flawed system to me. hands up in surrender To be fair, if I've spoken anything wrong or out of line, I'm just an observer here, as I haven't done this particular grind for confessions, as I said. Apologies if I've spoken out of line.
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John Moose Posts: 276 10/25/2017	I do agree that it's pretty early to declare the festival Totally Ruined Forever from one change after one day of it starting, and postponing judgement until we really see how the festival works this year around could be a generally helpful attitude - maybe "this is what I didn't like this year" instead of "this is what I don't like and it needs to be changed now." On the other hand, I'm a confused as to what would be a better place for people to voice their disatisfaction than a thread for it that no one has to check if the subject doesn't interest them, and a bit taken aback at the message of "stop complaining."
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genesis Posts: 924 10/25/2017	I have to confess, even taking account of FBG's desire to make FL not only a game but a game full of meaningful and narrative choices, this implementation seems very flawed. I disagree with the most literal meaning of Optimatum's view that "When even endgame players can't accomplish everything, there's clearly an issue in the design." I think it's perfectly fine to design the event in such a way that everything is not possible to accomplish. I happen to dislike that but it is a valid design choice. So I'll take it as granted that FBG intends for the gameplay to be such that you shouldn't be able to get everything in the majority of cases. Having said that, I do think that a combination of other factors makes this a poor design choice. One of the most influential talks at GDC of the last couple of years was this talk by Mark Rosewater - head designer of Magic: the Gathering. He discussed several key game design principles. His very first lesson was this: "Fighting against human nature is a losing battle". Meaning that if enough people want to do something that goes against your design intent the problem is not with the players playing wrong but with the design. Another lesson was: "Make the fun part also the correct strategy to win". Meaning that players will optimise regardless of whether it's fun so you need to either make sure that optimising is fun or remove avenues where optimising leads to unfun gameplay. So it's fine if FBG want to exclude the possibility of players getting through all the options. But it's pretty clear that players want to get all the companions and all the boons and will indulge in unfun gameplay as long as it's possible. Here are some factors (most of which have already been mentioned) that really play against FBG's narrative intent here: 1. There is no promise that hard to get options this year will stay next year meaning that players find themselves feeling obliged to get as much as possible this year through an unfun game mechanics 2. We finally have a way to reduce Criminal Record. Unlike the companions that at least can be replicated stats-wise elsewhere, the ability to reduce CR is a unique and very powerful effect. Without knowing that it will still be there next year, players are forced to prioritise it at the expense of fun or narratively meaningful choices 3. The Notability grind is not only unfun but also opaque. It's not immediately clear just how limiting the increase from N5 to N8 is to most players. So a player may start grinding thinking they can get so many boons/companions in the next fortnight only to realise at N7 just how unlikely their hopes are of being fulfilled. It would have been better if at the beginning of the festival it was clear that you can expect to obtain X companions/boons by default and another Y companions/boons if you are an end-game player and everything else would require Fate 4. The Notability grind is not helped/doesn't work organically with other mechanics of the Festival. For example, Attracting Visitors gives you MW. Great, you might think! A perfectly flavourful way to participate in the Festival until you get your Notability. But no! Attracting Visitors gives you MW only up to 11. edited by genesis on 10/25/2017 -- http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/mikey_thinkin Keeping track of incomplete content and loose ends in Fallen London
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Aniline Posts: 144 10/25/2017	Anne Auclair wrote: I don't think anyone is excluded by the new scarcity - it's more that they're limited by it. I don't know how anyone can claim that a story reset for 20 Fate is "exploitative", but a random confession for 15 is par for the course. -- Melantha Prescott, the Suspicious Statistician. "3% failure chances crop up nine times out of ten." Francesca Ayers-Kernighan, bat-hunter, cat-whisperer
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PSGarak Posts: 834 10/25/2017	I'll echo something I said about the Last Constable & Cheery Man: a lot of how players feel about things depend on expectations as much as they do the actual thing that was delivered. It's absolutely FBG's right to say that completionism, while possible for certain insane folks, was not intended as a realistic goal and they are aligning the festival to make completion as unrealistic as they originally intended. That's fine. I could be on board with that. If that is the case, the criticism I have is about communication. For better or worse, last year's version of this festival set the expectation that completionism was accepted and viable. I even got the player quality recognizing it, which to me communicated that FBG hoped and expected me to achieve it. The only communication we got about any changes that might be happening this year is the phrase "structurally similar." So to find on opening day that the content has been rebalanced to three times harder to get the same thing, but also there's actually more to achieve beyond that, violates the expectations that have been set. Now those expectations were set implicitly, and may not have been what FBG intended in the first place. And I get that, and that's fine. That's why I say my issue is with communication. FBG has even said, directly, that they make the Noman harder each year to keep up with player achievement. And that's fine, because they communicate that, and they explain that the difficulty and exclusivity is very much the point of the content. That communication has not happened here. We simply get something that is harder, with no previous indication that FBG was dissatisfied with the balance of the previous experience. That is the thing that is sharp and jarring and causing disappointment. -- http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/PSGarak
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Passionario Posts: 777 10/25/2017	Anne Auclair wrote: Why are my posts being systematically downvoted? -_- What a weird reaction. Every thread is meant to be unique, is it not? Maybe the plan is to have a certain amount of scarcity in forum reputation. -- Passionario: Profile, Story, Ending Passion: Profile, Appearance
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Optimatum Posts: 3666 10/25/2017	I'm very much an end-game player. I've spent a fair amount of Fate optimizing my BDR. But... I'm already pretty sure that, even if I use every single action and card I get over the next two weeks, I'll still need to spend Fate to get everything. That's ridiculous! When even endgame players can't accomplish everything, there's clearly an issue in the design. And what about newer PoSIs? I remember what it was like to grind Notability with only a handful of BDR. What about non-PoSIs, who can barely participate at all? The biggest issue with this grind for me is that the Notability mechanics are clearly not designed for such a time-limited thing. Getting to Notability 8 is certainly doable for me, but what next? Either I have to sit around hoping to draw the Amanuensis or I have to grind to Notability 9. Either way I have to spend a lot of extra time after I've reached my goal, not for any further gain, but just to be even allowed to start the grind again. It's silly. This grind simply isn't fun, for anyone. Nobody can realistically complete the grind without spending Fate. That leaves a bad taste in my mouth. -- Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome. Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi! PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Ysrthgrathe Posts: 87 10/25/2017	Hooray... I month ago I at long last finished the paramount presence MW grind. It was so much fun! that I quit fallen london entirely until yesterday. Hallowmas motivated me to log in again and give it another try. Oh, another tedious making waves grind. I forgot. And this time extra cumbrous. *Splendid!* (Sorry, I really needed to vent.) edited by Ysrthgrathe on 10/25/2017 -- https://www.fallenlondon.com/Profile/Ysrthgrathe
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Mr Sables Posts: 597 10/25/2017	Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook wrote: Failbetter aren't idiots - they aren't going to make the game comically difficult. And when players get bitter and argumentative every time difficulty is revised upward, devs are faced with the choice of a game that can only remain static or get easier, or a community that's perpetually furious. I partially agree. This might be derailing the thread a bit from its purpose, but I do think the issue is less "increase in difficulty" and more "difficulty on a sliding scale". I'm probably using the wrong term, but it's late for me and I'm sleepy, so what I mean is this: Notability is something exclusive to mid and endgame players. Most of those players never really go above five, and - when they do - it's usually for a larger grind like for lodgings or changing speciality. Those very endgame players have a choice to sacrifice notability now or save it for their grind, which is a fair choice and not one that's irreversible. They also tend to have high BDR, so it's - again - doable. The increase in difficulty is fair for them and proportionate, and I don't think really it's deserving of complaint more than a grumble. Beginners were locked out from the start, because they aren't POSI. Fair or not fair? Another debate, but the point is nothing's changed for them, so this year is the same as the last . . . no harm, no foul. Now . . . mid-gamers? That's a massive jump, and one that might not be doable at all. It's very difficult to get to 5 when you have low BDR, when you aren't quite at a point to get special items from the Iron Republic or yet able to pay fate for the Owl or whatever else. So it's punishing mid-game players by moving boundaries; before it was "you can do this" and now it's "sorry, you can't do this". The difficulty spike doesn't affect the beginners, while it's either 'fun' or an 'inconvenience' to end-gamers, but mid-gamers? Yikes. It's tough. So it feels vastly unfair. I think these kinds of things work better when everyone can access them (and work more on a scale). The Zee Festival relies more on quirks and luck, with ways for beginners to increase quirks. Christmas has advents for all and the ability for all to grind lacre, with an added extra of the noman for end-gamers. The Election has unique mechanics and social interactions. The Rose has a frustrating reliance on RNG, but all can participate equally. If you pay Fate, it's for extras that you can't otherwise get (everyone's again on equal playing fields). If you increase the difficulty, whether in quirks or RNG or whatever else . . . everyone's affected equally, as they all are able to grind or keep retrying and they all have the same free options available (your fate only works on the exclusive stuff, if I remember right, not as a means to get items ahead of everyone else on the free-level). This is where this Hallowmas differs to me. You can use fate to get ahead and get all free items, if you wanted, leaving people who can't pay fate unable to get the same as you, which doesn't seem fair . . . and you also entirely cut off beginners from getting extras, which also doesn't seem fair . . . and then - the following year (unlike the Zee Festival), you immediately bring out a new slew of Companions (giving no one a change to catch up), put a huge amount behind a pay wall (cutting off those free players from formerly free companions, again unlike Rose), and then decide to up the ante for mid-game players, putting them at a disadvantage, too. It's easy to get a bit grumpy, as it's heavily geared to fate-payers (fair enough, except they're not paying towards exclusive, but a whole base range) and also to end-gamers (which are probably few and far between). So yeah . . . disproportionate difficulty.
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Barse Posts: 706 10/25/2017	On the topic of whether the festival is designed/should be designed for a player to be able to get everything: it's worth bearing in mind that, historically, the festival has strongly incentivised getting everything. Last year, Huffam awarded an excellent new MW-generating option on One's Public for having all of the available upgraded companions, and there's no indication that will not be the case this year. It feels weird to argue, or try to persuade myself, that I should not worry about getting everything because the festival is just not designed that way when there is (presumably) a very present and worthwhile reward for doing so. EDIT: As an addendum, Feducci's side-hustle would have made it very hard to accomplish everything there is to accomplish in the festival even if the N5 cost had remained in place. While I'm all for new content, giving us a whole suite of new companion upgrades and Feducci's operation as well as upping the Notability cost seems harsh - one measure or the other would (probably - I'm no game designer) have made the festival "hard" enough to "complete". edited by Barse on 10/25/2017 -- The Scorched Sailor, up for most social actions and RP. Not as scary as he looks.
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Anchovies Posts: 421 10/25/2017	I do think "Notability grind!" is the wrong way to go about making something difficult while giving late-game players a bit more leverage. Flash Lays with multiple venture difficulties, Forgotten Quarter expeditions with varying supply costs and rivals, short stories with scaling rewards, quirk challenges, and so forth. Renown is currently a big enough system to be getting unwieldy, and probably shouldn't get many more uses than it already has. -- Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God — but to create Him. —Sir Arthur C Clarke Lionel Anchovies. Character on indefinite hiatus.
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Wilhelm Klossner Posts: 35 10/25/2017	Anne Auclair wrote: Anyway, I'm only theorizing that their original plan was to have a certain amount of scarcity in confessions, to make trading and prioritization important in free play, but the plan didn't quite work out as they accidentally made confessions too easy to attain. Scarcity or not, the current system completely prevents the majority of newer players from even trying to attain bonus Confessions. What is even worse — grinding Making Waves is infamously unpopular. And that is the only way of getting new Confessions, if you are not willing or able to purchase Fate. It definitely needs to be changed or expanded upon. No player should be excluded from the seasonal events or their additional activities. -- Big Scary Mouse — Gone NORTH Wilhelm Klossner
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suinicide Posts: 2409 10/25/2017	dov wrote: Optimatum wrote: When even endgame players can't accomplish everything, there's clearly an issue in the design. I think that the idea is that (unless you spend Fate), you're not supposed to get everything. Similar to how you can't get everything during the Feast of the Rose, no matter how deep in the end-game you are. I agree it's a bit disappointing, especially since in past years you could get everything. The big difference between this and the feast of the rose is stability. You miss something during the feast of the rose and it is there next year for you to get. You miss something during this feast and it is gone forever behind a paywall. -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence. RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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rahv7 Posts: 294 10/25/2017	I have BDR 27 (same as last year) and that is pretty much the most I can get based on a few roleplaying decisions (such as not doing SMEN) and not being able to spend insane amounts of Fate. I've checked the numbers on how many total CP of Making Waves I need for a confession and it comes down to this: Last year I always got Notability 6 before getting a confession which required a total of ~150 CP of Waves (i.e. the cumulative amount for raising Notability to level 1,2,..., 6) If I want to raise Notability to 8 (i.e. without having the additional point so I don't need to draw the card) it requires already ~530 CP If I wanted to go to Notability 9 it would be another 300 CP for total of ~830 CP Outside of having insane amounts of Scheme, I don't see how it would make sense to actually grind Waves to get Confessions. If I did nothing else within those two weeks I'd be able to get 3 or maybe 4 additional confessions at best. That means one or two more companions. I don't think that's really worth it (especially when none of the companions are best in slot). For anyone without Ratwork Velocipede, Übergoat/Owl, etc. the numbers are even worse. I don't really see what the rationale for the increased Notability requirement is. And I'd love to see alternative ways to get Confessions, maybe via Favours or some other qualities like Casing. I don't know. It need not be easy but it should be something that doesn't lock so many players out of getting most/all rewards. edited by rahv7 on 10/25/2017 -- It's possible people have forgotten that there is an actual devil in the actual Lord Mayor's office. A devil who is promising to look after people's souls. What is wrong with everybody? https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/rahv7
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Dudebro Pyro Posts: 755 10/24/2017	I was on hiatus last Hallowmass, so when I first saw the option this year I didn't bat an eye, but you're right - 5 Notability sounds so much more enjoyable. 2-3 confessions per day would have been feasible, whereas now 1 confession per day might be stretching it. Given that the festival runs for 14-15 days, and assuming about 10 free confessions total, that would mean getting everything is simply impossible without fate. Heck, I just realised that my own - strictly prioritised - plan involves 28 confessions, and thus might not be achievable. So I'll have to either spend fate, or give up on some items which will very likely never be available again (or be fate-locked). As a highly end-game player with exceptional friendship and 28BDR (lacking only seeking, the rubber companion, and one more tattoo), this is disappointing. -- Dudebro Pyro, eccentric scholar Spare Starveling Kitties always welcome. I collect them. For that matter, send me your unwanted cat boxes too.
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Kaijyuu Posts: 1047 10/24/2017	It's roughly 2.5x as harsh a grind as last year, assuming your BDR didn't change. I gained 3 BDR and it's still roughly twice as many required making waves CP. -- Be of good cheer. Our contacts have assured us that your sins are forgiven.
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Optimatum Posts: 3666 10/25/2017	dov wrote: Optimatum wrote: When even endgame players can't accomplish everything, there's clearly an issue in the design. I think that the idea is that (unless you spend Fate), you're not supposed to get everything. Similar to how you can't get everything during the Feast of the Rose, no matter how deep in the end-game you are. I agree it's a bit disappointing, especially since in past years you could get everything. If we're not supposed to get everything it's a really terrible design decision, especially because "you can't get everything" isn't even true! It's entirely possible to get everything! Just have enough Scheme built up for your Salon/Orphanage, have a ton of items ready to turn into MW, get really lucky and high-roll every MW gain on T3 side conversion, only draw MW granting cards and the Amanuensis... there's lots of ways someone could theoretically get everything. The issue is all those ways require either absurd luck for two weeks or an amount of preparation completely disproportionate to anything ever needed in past years. If they want getting everything to be impossible, it should actually be impossible, not just improbable-but-theoretically-doable. Actually impossible would make it less frustrating. In any case, if FBG does intend for getting everything to be realistically impossible, I'd object (somewhat) less to that idea if there was no Fate option. But there is. Making the grind effectively impossible but letting people succeed if they're willing to grease the wheels with cash? That's even less fun, and it doesn't seem like FBG's style. The difference between this Hallowmas and FotER is that the latter is less time-limited. We now know that every single companion available this year will cost money the next, while the unique items from Feducci will probably be completely unavailable. Feast companions don't vanish or increase in price if you wait a year. Plus it absolutely is possible to get every Feast companion in one year - I got all the free ones in one year with plenty of time to spare, and once you actually buy the Fate, the Fate companions are just as easy. Plus the Feast cards you need are high frequency for exactly that reason, in contrast to the Amanuensis being pretty rare. genesis wrote: I disagree with the most literal meaning of Optimatum's view that "When even endgame players can't accomplish everything, there's clearly an issue in the design." I think it's perfectly fine to design the event in such a way that everything is not possible to accomplish. I happen to dislike that but it is a valid design choice. So I'll take it as granted that FBG intends for the gameplay to be such that you shouldn't be able to get everything in the majority of cases. Having said that, I do think that a combination of other factors makes this a poor design choice. That sentence didn't quite convey what I meant, so let me rephrase: Making it impossible to obtain everything is a valid design choice, though not one likely to be popular with players. But for several reasons I don't believe that FBG actually intended impossibility as the design goal. Last year there was a reward for obtaining every single companion and I expect that will be the case this year too; clearly FBG expects that some players will try to obtain everything. None of the other holidays are designed to prevent completionism. FBG tries to be use Fate costs responsibly; nothing Fate-locked pretends to be doable for free. My conclusion is that FBG doesn't intend for this to be impossible, but for some reason decided that last year was too easy and increased costs too much. Maybe they've implemented something to compensate, maybe not. But whatever their intended design, FBG is clearly doing a bad job of communicating it. -- Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome. Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi! PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Hotshot Blackburn Posts: 110 10/25/2017	Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook wrote: Failbetter aren't idiots - they aren't going to make the game comically difficult. And when players get bitter and argumentative every time difficulty is revised upward, devs are faced with the choice of a game that can only remain static or get easier, or a community that's perpetually furious. Something about this doesn't sit quite right with me. The forums may be a vocal minority, but just telling people to cool down without responding to the source of why they are furious is unlikely to have much of an effect at this point in time. Once Failbetter comes out with an official response, I suspect things will simmer. Better to let people stew than try to prematurely clamp down. By the sounds of your comment though, static and making the game easier sounds preferable to making a perpetually furious community. It doesn't sound like Failbetter wants the latter either, so I'd be a bit surprised if things don't get clarified or changed depending on how extensive complaint is outside the forum. Also, folks, it's literally day two of a two week event. I don't like the changes, and if this isn't followed up on I'll get a bit more peeved, but like...we have no idea why these changes are made, and I have enough faith in the game that there will be explanations for why these changes are made. -- Hotshot Blackburn: Messidor, Aspirant to the Calendar Council. Paramount Presence. Seeker of the Name. A firm believer in kindness, solidarity, and sufficient use of force and firepower.
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earthbourn Posts: 149 10/25/2017	Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook wrote: Failbetter aren't idiots - they aren't going to make the game comically difficult. And when players get bitter and argumentative every time difficulty is revised upward, devs are faced with the choice of a game that can only remain static or get easier, or a community that's perpetually furious. I'm obviously not in the same position as everyone, but to use myself as an example: My current main is only 6 months old, but I'm not a new player, so I've been able to progress pretty far in that time. I'm a mid-range POSI, and I've spent a fair bit of Fate on BDR gear. And from where I'm standing, 8 Notability for a single confession does seem comically difficult (for me). I could get there once during the event, maybe twice if I focused exclusively on that. If it's FBG's intention to have the bulk of the event well-nigh exclusive to only the highest-level players, that's their prerogative. If that's the case, I'll pick up my free confessions and get what I can of the rewards. But I would have liked something that I could participate in. -- Tenterhook - A sun-seared creature learning to be human. The Mechanist, L. - Found what she was looking for. Gone now.
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Televangelist Posts: 109 10/24/2017	Yeah, I'm up to 31 BDR this year and I feel defeated and deflated. This just isn't fun.
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MidnightVoyager Posts: 858 10/24/2017	I feel especially sorry for anyone newer this year. They're just kinda doomed if they want to make a shot at it. -- Midnight Voyager - A blood-cousin to predators. Collector of beasts. Affably mad.
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rahv7 Posts: 294 10/25/2017	First of all thanks for the link to the talk. This sounds very interesting! genesis wrote: I disagree with the most literal meaning of Optimatum's view that "When even endgame players can't accomplish everything, there's clearly an issue in the design." I think it's perfectly fine to design the event in such a way that everything is not possible to accomplish. The thing here is, that it is possible to get everything if you just throw enough money at Failbetter. Yesterday someone over at reddit got Feducci's lance simply by paying 165 Fate. In another game I wouldn't be surprised if you just needed to pay enough money to get all the fancy stuff nobody else has. But Failbetter's policy concerning the use of Fate has been very fair so far. So this kind of leaves a sour taste... -- It's possible people have forgotten that there is an actual devil in the actual Lord Mayor's office. A devil who is promising to look after people's souls. What is wrong with everybody? https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/rahv7
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annalibertas Posts: 161 10/26/2017	Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook wrote: Failbetter aren't idiots - they aren't going to make the game comically difficult. And when players get bitter and argumentative every time difficulty is revised upward, devs are faced with the choice of a game that can only remain static or get easier, or a community that's perpetually furious. My problem is that up till this point, everything that's been hard has has a reason for being difficult, some kind of narrative justification for why it is that way (and also why particularly the notability grind is necessary instead of any of the other grinds, many of which are far more accessible to mid and early game players.) This time, I didn't get any kind of explanation for the change narratively, the cost just went up dramatically for, from an in game perspective, apparently no reason. That, combined with the fact that there was no warning from FBG so there was no way to prepare (I'm only at N3 right now because I just became a legendary charisma, which I absolutely would have put off doing if I'd known the hallowmas grind was going to change so dramatically) left a bad taste in my mouth. I'm saying all this as someone who's happily spent months on near pointless grinds with zero complaints when they amounted to nothing and who's also thoroughly enjoyed all my fate purchases to date, so hopefully you can understand that my complaints aren't reacting to the difficulty of the grind, but to how it was handled and perhaps therefore not entirely write off what I have to say. Also being dependent on the Amunesis showing up promptly sucks -- https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Anna%20Libertas Accepting all social actions & boxed cats https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Julliah%20Randolph Alt, will accept all social actions whenever I log on
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Dudebro Pyro Posts: 755 10/26/2017	I'd like to add that, as an end-game player (28BDR), Notability 8 is just barely doable. I would have preferred 7, and 6 would have made the festival properly fun and enjoyable, but grinding up to 8 would give me enough confessions to get... most of the things needed. Assuming 2nd-week confessions are worth enough, I could even get the Lance, together with my two or three chosen companions, and the criminal record reduction. I'd have to forgo the rest of the companions, and Feducci's certificate thingy, but I can live with that (though there are players who would find even that compromise troubling). The problem here is that where Notability 8 is just barely feasible, with a lot of grumbling, a full focus, and some hard compromises, Notability 9 is completely unfeasible. I'd have to give up a whole bunch of stuff - from my already carefully prioritised and trimmed down wishlist. And after an entire day of card flipping, the Amanuensis is still not showing up. At this point, I'd have been better off going for 9 yesterday before cashing in. So even if they wanted to make the festival a lot more difficult, I can accept that. But the lack of an easy way to restart the grind after cashing in means that you actually need to get to 9 - making even extreme end game players only able to get maybe 4-6 extra confessions during the entire festival! In other words, playing for a year or two, spending some actual money on BDR gear, and then grinding away like mad for the entire duration of the festival will, at best, give you 2-3 extra companions. Miss out on one of the above steps, and grinding will be so hard as to basically not be worth cashing it in for any extra confessions at all. (Addendum: other seasonal events don't necessarily reward crazy grinding either, but that's because they don't have crazy grinds. That's a very big difference. edited by Dudebro Pyro on 10/26/2017 -- Dudebro Pyro, eccentric scholar Spare Starveling Kitties always welcome. I collect them. For that matter, send me your unwanted cat boxes too.
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Màiread Posts: 385 10/26/2017	What I keep coming back to is that notability grinding isn't actually 'difficult' - at least not in the sense that leads to meaningful gameplay, player engagement and a sense of accomplishment. Learning to play the piano is difficult. Finding all the stray beads in Ōkami, finishing the story mode in Don't Starve - these are difficult. Heck, back when I was a wee rabbit on my purple gameboy colour defeating the Pokémon league was difficult. All of these things require the development of skill, the application of thought, planning and strategising and serious work (and of course a tiny dash of luck). Victory brings elation and pride - to win is to have grown, to have risen to the test. The only things notability grinding challenges are your boredom threshold and the resilience of your tendons. Completing one of the many many notability grinds in the game doesn't make me think 'wow, I'm so proud of myself!' but rather 'thank goodness I can stop now and go and do something fun'. When FL offers so much to enjoy it's a shame to ask players to spend so much of their game time doing something so tedious. The more notability is used as a time sink barrier to fun content, the more weary and exhausted the players are becoming. (It feels worth comparing to the excitement I felt on figuring out a certain ambition, or back when Passion had yet to be discovered - even the Noman grind was fulfilling since it was both story-driven and required a certain amount of skill in the planning). And in this particular instance annalibertas hit the nail on the noggin - what is the reason for this being so difficult? Paramount Presence? Totally makes sense to require a bunch of Notability (and I wouldn't do it, but I feel the implementation of Fate here is great - you can shorten the grind, but you can't bypass the challenging parts). A time-limited festival where hopefully players get to feel excitement and experience new or returning content which already excludes a whole bunch of players? Eh. I genuinely don't think it's a problem for an event to exist where you can't get everything in a single year, or where you can get one or two things & the rest cost fate. While irksome to completionists, I also don't think it is a problem for content to cost real money in subsequent years. I DO think it is unsurprising that when the only festival which has always not only allowed but heavily incentivised completionism (got everything from the zee festival? Great! Enjoy your collection. Got everything at Hallowmas? Here, have a significant boost which helps with a grind you're going to be doing over and over again) changes to make that completionism functionally impossible that people are a little confused. Anyway, I don't think I'll ever enjoy New Hallowmas as much as the old, but that's a matter of tone rather than mechanics, which is a discussion for another time. I'm sure as the festival develops more shall be revealed and perhaps the notability hike will make sense. Regardless, the new companions are as delightful as ever. Fedducci is still a big wobbly bottom in suitable style. I just hope we aren't going to see the game getting even grindier, because that's not difficult, it's just not fun. -- Màiread - Correspondent, composer, lover of cats. Can probably bake you a d__n fine cake. Useful Links: Traveller's Friend (Progress Tracker & Notability Calculator) \| phryne's Guide to Favours & Renown \| Peggy the Nowoman lived to see the Feast. Thank you for the memories, Snow Lady. I'm happy to accept most social actions except for lethal sparring and loitering suspiciously. Please challenge my plant! Currently not accepting calling cards.
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Sara Hysaro Moderator Posts: 4514 10/25/2017	I'm personally hoping the bump in Notability is a preemptive move for balance against more free confessions; that'd make Hallowmas more accessible/fun for newbies without taking away the previous challenge of last year. If we don't receive more free confessions than last year, however, then I'd say the bump is too unforgiving for this year. It might be alright next year, if we don't have a mayor offering a unique and expensive reward. -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome. Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
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MidnightVoyager Posts: 858 10/24/2017	5 was doable, even though it is my world's least favorite grind. 8 sucks. I've only ever gotten to 11 period, and that's with effort! -- Midnight Voyager - A blood-cousin to predators. Collector of beasts. Affably mad.
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Jermaine Vendredi Posts: 588 10/25/2017	As someone who has been playing for around 18 months, my take on this is different. Increasing Notability is such a pain, I'd never dream of spending it on a single confession. There are much more interesting things to spend fate on, too. A gaggle of companions I will never use and cannot sell seems pointless. I might get the odd one that appeals for other reasons (cats! rats! bats! even weasels!), but I would never feel I needed or wanted to have all of them. I appreciate the free stuff and the different play options and text, but there is no goal I feel I have to reach. -- No plant battles, please. https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Jermion
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Koenig Posts: 466 10/25/2017	6 or even 7 might be reasonable, but 8 is too far. I sincerely hope Failbetter updates this. I already spend way to much time grinding in this game, I don't want even the holiday events to turn into such slogs. And I am saying that as an end game player; what about all the newer players? -- Koenig: Extraordinary. Invisible. Shattering. Legendary.
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Parelle Posts: 1084 10/25/2017	Also, this isn't Fate Locked per say, but it's almost impossible to do this without having the Ubergoat (technically requires Fate), a Ratwork Velocipede, a home comfort from Mr Sacks, or the Spiked Rosary, or maybe all of those for comfort. Without Fate, you're almost undoubtedly capped at BDR 22 or 23 if you're a Midnighter. That's not practical do grind. -- Parelle, Lady Joseph Marlen. The Singular Librarian. A Midnighter, a Player of the Marvelous. pages from a dusty bookshop: a badly updated FL changelog \| Useful Guidance and Explanations
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Daedalus_Falk Posts: 234 10/25/2017	To be honest, I agree. The problem is that it REALLY penalizes everyone who isn't an endgame player: Notability 8 is totally out of reach for the average new POSI (who would have maybe 3-5 BDR tops). -- https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Daedalus_Falk ---- For I was hungry, and you gave me rats. I was thirsty, and you gave me rats. I was naked, and you gave me rats. The rodents were gathered together, the cats slept in the Sun’s blindness, and the rats rose like the Moon, in the light at the edge of the cheese.
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Televangelist Posts: 109 10/25/2017	Anne Auclair wrote: Why are my posts being systematically downvoted? -_- What a weird reaction. It's not systematic, you're just not really arguing in good faith or making anything remotely resembling a persuasive point, and people tend to dislike that sort of thing. I happen to disagree with you on this issue, but it's less about the disagreement, and more about your not engaging constructively.
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Optimatum Posts: 3666 10/25/2017	Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook wrote: Failbetter aren't idiots - they aren't going to make the game comically difficult. And when players get bitter and argumentative every time difficulty is revised upward, devs are faced with the choice of a game that can only remain static or get easier, or a community that's perpetually furious. Failbetter isn't going to make the game comically difficult intentionally. (Aside from SMEN of course.) However, they can certainly make the game comically difficult by accident, and I'm pretty sure that's what they've done. Notability 8 is reasonably challenging even for high-BDR endgame players such as I. Maybe FBG wants that level of difficulty, I don't know. But I think they've underestimated the difficulty of having to reach Notability 8 over and over, which requires either gaining a ninth level or being lucky with card draws. Also, it's certainly possible to change the game without angering the community. Most new content will inevitably be easy from an endgame perspective, since it has to be playable for newer characters, and in a story-focused game like FL keeping the same difficulty doesn't detract much. It's definitely possible to make new, harder content too - the new Poet Laureate grind is pretty intensive, for instance. The issue is when an existing content framework unexpectedly skyrockets in difficulty, especially since it's paired with a time limit. Anne Auclair wrote: So the Festival being more limited seems clearly motivated to nudge people towards fate and increasing the return on investment. And as much as I'd like everything to be free, FB needs to pay people, keep the lights on, nurture other indie developers, and develop a major game for release (all game development having a degree of risk, more so for smaller studios). So, I'm not so bothered by this...it's how the company makes a lot of its money. You're right, a lot of free-to-play games are designed that way. Fallen London hasn't been, at least up until now. A lot of content does have options to speed things up with Fate, whether to skip grinding items for a ship or get out of a menace zone instantly or just get more actions directly, but all of that content lets you do things the slow way. Content either explicitly requires Fate from the start or can be done entirely for free. This Hallowmas setup implies you can get everything for free, but in practice the deadline pressure means either shelling out Fate or missing the goal. Anne Auclair wrote: It's also worth pointing out that new players by definition can't even use Notability. Like, if you're brand new you haven't played far enough to become A Person of Some Importance, which takes some time as you have to complete all the opening story-lines and the Ambitious Barristers requirements. So five Notability is just as impossible for a new Unimportant Character as eight Notability. Entirely true! Which is another issue I have with this design. After the free confessions, it's either Notability or Fate if you want to participate. There's no way for brand new characters to be further involved, and newer PoSIs can't realistically do much either. This change expands the definition of 'newer' but it wasn't great in the first place. edited by Optimatum on 10/25/2017 -- Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome. Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi! PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Kaijyuu Posts: 1047 10/25/2017	I'm just glad no one seems to be spewing "it's optionallll~". Which is always the worst excuse for bad gameplay. Everything is "optional" from a twisted enough point of view; it's optional to play a game at all, but not playing isn't the solution to the problem of it being unfun. -- Be of good cheer. Our contacts have assured us that your sins are forgiven.
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Sir Joseph Marlen Posts: 575 10/26/2017	Absintheuse wrote: Delicious friends, after reviewing some feedback we've decided that this Hallowmas, 13 free confessions will be given out, in comparison to last year's 8. Thank you for your feedback on the Notability grind, it was intended to allow hardcore players to get a few more confessions than other players, but seems to function more of a burden than a kindness! We'll take this into consideration for the festival for next year. Thank you for hearing us out! I still feel like the current state of Hallowmas is an uphill grind, but it's nice to know that you guys, gals, and others are working around our current gameplay experience and are taking action to balance it out. As for what further changes would help either now or in later years, I think there is still room for advice. Like everyone has already said, the Notability requirement is too high. 5, maybe 6 or 7 at most, but not 8. Feducci's favor and rewards were an excellent idea for his involvement as mayor and Hallowmas in general, but this alongside the up-scaling in grind/difficulty made an already challenging task highly improbable without Fate. Events around London to acquire confessions with a high cost (such as: expeditions with a high supplies requirement, difficult heists with a high Favour cost or require the certain expense of item(s), and Flash Lays with an additional cost/requirement) would satisfy players with an optional if not costly access to confessions that would also break up the pace of Notability grinding. Lastly, communication is good overall but does have its dips. An offhand mention of the higher Notability cost may have reduced the confusion during the holiday's start, since Fallen London is built around management planning that can be easily upset by an unknown variable change. And while most of us assumed you were looking into our complaints for revision as history would show, having an official step in and say "Hmm, okay, things seem a bit messy. We'll look into it, let's keep each other posted until then" can go a long way in assuaging early complaints. But like I said, thank you so much for listening to your audience. You all have been busting a lot of content out lately in high degree of quality and quantity. Even when I disagree with a decision, rarely if ever do I feel devalued as a player or taken advantage of. I hope the staff aren't dissuaded by any complaints that range too far into hostility or pessimism, and that our discussion can help you guys in the development of a work we both love. Can't wait to see what's to come from you all! -- Sir Joseph Marlen - The Romantic Sophist Alexus Harven - The Defiant Fatalist Rose Reinhelm - The Respectful Revolutionary Cappuccino - The Perfidious Spycraft Available for any and all social actions.
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Plynkes Posts: 631 10/26/2017	Personally, I'm not one of those people who imagined we would be able to get everything. I always see the festival items as an array of choices, rather than a list of things I simply must have every one of. I didn't realise there were people who thought like that until I saw the vehement complaints on the forum. It was a bit of an eye-opener for me. I suppose if you figure we should be entitled to get everything these are all valid concerns. Seems like Failbetter disagree, mind. What concerns me more than the specifics here is the trend. The way it seems things are going. In a game that is already pretty damn grindy, recent developments seem to suggest they are ramping up the grinding. I have a love/hate relationship with Fallen London. I love the setting, the stories, the atmosphere, the baffling lore, all of that. And I hate the grindy gameplay. Quite simply I've had enough of it, and don't want to do it any more. Not the really extreme grinds, anyway. The Connected/Renown conversions have cured me of that. I'm reconciled to the fact that this means I won't ever have all the nice things, such as a Goat. I think I'm a bit different to many of the other forum dwellers in that way. What worries me is that a certain type of player will always do these grinds regardless of how awful they are. And I fear this is only encouraging FB to put more toilsome grinds into the game. If nobody did these grinds, perhaps they would have to rethink their design choices a little, and lean on the grinding a little less. But I fear this will never happen, the game will get more tiresome in this way, and people like myself will eventually be driven away. I appreciate that some grinding is necessary in a game like this, it's there to pad out the content like in any MMO, because players will always devour content like locusts, the second it comes out. But I am a tiny bit concerned at the direction we seem to be going in currently, I must say. -- "Then tell Wind and Fire where to stop, but don't tell me."
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Optimatum Posts: 3666 10/25/2017	@Anne: Posting from my phone, so this will be briefer than I like. 1. Different players have different goals. I do like that people can pick and choose if so inclined, but not everyone is, and FBG knows that well. (I really like the Election's compromise with everyone getting one free item.) I'd be okay with this direction if it were more like the FotER, where it's clear you'll need to spend Fate to get everything; making it necessary but not saying so doesn't sit right with me. 2. The issue isn't the time limit or the limited edition items. The issue is the time limit that's shorter than the amount of time the grind actually takes. Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook wrote: Optimatum wrote: Also, it's certainly possible to change the game without angering the community. Not so sure about that - an artist can't control the audience's reaction to their art. Chess players were livid when the queen gained the ability to move in eight directions. Sherlock Holmes readers raged at the publication of The Final Problem - which, while not a great send-off, was still rather better than His Last Bow. True, there will always be vocal complaints about anything. A better way to phrase it: It's certainly possible to change the game without angering the majority of the community. edited by Optimatum on 10/26/2017 -- Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome. Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi! PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Sara Hysaro Moderator Posts: 4514 10/26/2017	I kinda wish the Notability grind was a Making Waves grind instead. Same basic idea, but it doesn't lock out newbies or people unlucky with their cards. However, the previous Hallowmas effectively locked the highest levels from non-POSI characters too, so that's probably an element they're hoping to retain. -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome. Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
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MidnightVoyager Posts: 858 10/26/2017	I would rather have had many fewer items, new art for them, and a less crappy grind. Or just nothing, if they're going to insist on a horrible grind for new things. I say this as someone who specifically collects the thing they are making more of and was excited for this holiday for that reason in particular. I expect every new plot thing to be gated behind a progressively more expensive and painful grind, but when there's not even plot at the end of it, it's... just tiring. 29 BDR, just got back to 9, here I go again... -- Midnight Voyager - A blood-cousin to predators. Collector of beasts. Affably mad.
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Optimatum Posts: 3666 10/26/2017	Anne Auclair wrote: @Optimatum @Kaijyuu So the issue for you is more one of mechanical transparency? As in, the system requires you to estimate things out rather than being completely up front? That's part of it. If FBG wants completionism here to require Fate, the design should reflect that, not pretend otherwise. But it's also that I really don't think FBG intends to Fate-lock this. Every single past year of Hallowmas, both before and after the revision, has focused on rewarding hard work. Investing tons of time and effort into making social connections and maxing out Trust. Investing tons of time and effort into grinding MW and getting enough confessions for every companion. The other festivals reward hard work too, though in different ways. As such, suddenly turning around and making Hallowmas completion require Fate doesn't fit at all. Why turn a holiday rewarding time and effort into one where the only way to win is cheating to get ahead, so to speak? Why go from having a Fate alternative to having only one option? -- Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome. Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi! PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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MidnightVoyager Posts: 858 10/25/2017	I was about to say this one was uniquely irritating, but I was a bit miffed at notability being burned last year, too. We're interrupting your grind for the new Court stuff wiiiiith another grind! a time-limited one. -- Midnight Voyager - A blood-cousin to predators. Collector of beasts. Affably mad.
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Jermaine Vendredi Posts: 588 10/25/2017	Anne Auclair wrote: Why are my posts being systematically downvoted? -_- What a weird reaction. You know, I wondered that when I read the thread earlier. I tried to identify the conflict and really couldn't. -- No plant battles, please. https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Jermion
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Kaijyuu Posts: 1047 10/25/2017	Just get rid of notability option entirely if they expect us to spend fate to get additional confessions. That way we're no longer encouraged to do decidedly unfun things. -- Be of good cheer. Our contacts have assured us that your sins are forgiven.
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xKiv Posts: 846 10/25/2017	genesis wrote: 3. The Notability grind is not only unfun but also opaque. ... It also has to feel like a kick in the do-not-kick regions to those of us who maintain high (15-ish) level of notability as a baseline. Ahem. (the "this will cost you 8 times as much as it would cost a nobody with the same BDR" factor is painful (really, with 29 BDR getting from 1 to 10 costs 570 cp mw, getting from 7 to 15 costs 4320), even if it hits only once .. per event) -- https://www.fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xKiv - a witchful, percussive, dangermous and shadowry scholar of coexplodence, hopsidirean, and walker of fallen kitties.
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Diptych Administrator Posts: 3493 10/25/2017	I was probably too terse and irritable, for which I apologise. I've edited my original comment. But, I've seen a lot of gaming communities tear themselves apart over the years - some, very recently - and was disappointed to see the behaviour displayed in this thread. edited by Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook on 10/25/2017 -- Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron. Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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Nero Keller Posts: 45 10/26/2017	My personal problem with the Notability cost is that I'm saving up Notability to become a Paramount Presence. Certainly interferes with priorities… -- https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Archbishop%20Nero%20Keller - Nero Keller, Monster Hunter of a notoriously small stature and absurdly high Dangerous. Paramount Presence, Archbishop, highly Renowned, incredibly ascetic.
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Teaspoon Posts: 866 10/26/2017	...if you want in-game justification, it is like this: Our Mayor is a dratted so-and-so who finds the spectacle of all London distraught and anxious to be a most hilarious sight! (Not saying this wouldn't have also happened if the DTC was Mayor, but then, she would not have been flogging off Dangerous weapons at a preposterous price, would she?) -- Truth lies at the bottom of a well. https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Alt%20Ern
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Optimatum Posts: 3666 10/26/2017	a Nice Friend wrote: Ideally the Temperance Campaigner's 60 favour item would have been the honey well. The whole thing. I still want that well. Introducing the new home comfort: A Really, Really High Spacebat Ghost It gives +77 A Connoisseur of Neathy Delights. edited by Optimatum on 10/26/2017 -- Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome. Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi! PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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gronostaj Posts: 403 10/26/2017	Teaspoon wrote: (Not saying this wouldn't have also happened if the DTC was Mayor, but then, she would not have been flogging off Dangerous weapons at a preposterous price, would she?) why not? who wouldn't want a Replica of DTC's Shoe For Slapping Alcoholics With (+20 dangerous, +2 respectable) -- Gronostaj (pl. Ermine), a decadent duellist of mysterious and indistinct gender. Seeker. Willing to die- but not of boredom. Open to all social actions, including the harmful ones. Soft-Spoken Surgeon, a doctor who owes an onerous debt. Professor of medicine at the University by day, at criminal employ by night. Open to all non-harmful social actions.
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a Nice Friend Posts: 127 10/26/2017	Ideally the Temperance Campaigner's 60 favour item would have been the honey well. The whole thing. I still want that well. edited by a Nice Friend on 10/26/2017 -- Definitely a nice friend - http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/a%20nice%20friend
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dov Posts: 2580 10/25/2017	No. Last year, on week two you could draw any of the 7 possible confessions. -- Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how. (Most social actions are welcome. Please no requests to Loiter Suspiciously and no investigations of the Affluent Photographer)
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Televangelist Posts: 109 10/26/2017	Another day, another flip of all my cards plus putting all my actions into the finishing school, without the amanuensis card to show for it. Guess I can't do a painful grind for Notability 8 if I can't even start the grind! Cool holiday, guys. edited by Televangelist on 10/26/2017
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Diptych Administrator Posts: 3493 10/25/2017	Slightly less grumpy moderator intervention: remember to be polite, be kind, assume other forum users are posting in good faith. All shall be well and all shall be well and all manner of things shall be well. edited by Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook on 10/25/2017 -- Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron. Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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earthbourn Posts: 149 10/25/2017	The fact that the confessions aren't created equal is problematic in itself. Unless we're guaranteed to get second-week confessions in the second week, some players are necessarily going to be SOL while others will have a much better chance of getting Feducci's rewards. Also, how will this influence confession trading? How will people who only have lower-tier confessions trade for more valuable ones? -- Tenterhook - A sun-seared creature learning to be human. The Mechanist, L. - Found what she was looking for. Gone now.
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Anne Auclair Posts: 2215 10/25/2017	Wilhelm Klossner wrote: It definitely needs to be changed or expanded upon. No player should be excluded from the seasonal events or their additional activities. I don't think anyone is excluded by the new scarcity - it's more that they're limited by it. In some ways this Festival seems more open than the Feast of the Exceptional Rose, as you can get every Hallowmas item or companion (save Sister Lydia) without paying fate, whereas in the Rose Feast there is a hard fate wall separating lower and higher companions. In the Feast of the Exceptional Rose, the Tiger or the Matriarch would require fate. In this festival, you just need the relevant confessions, which you can certainly get without paying anything. It's just less open compared to the previous Hallowmas, as there will be fewer confessions in circulation due to the Nostalgia increase. edited by Anne Auclair on 10/25/2017 -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Dudebro Pyro Posts: 755 10/25/2017	That's a fair point, but generally festivals seem geared to allow dedicated grinders to get everything possible well within the available timeframe. As one example, the first time I went to the Zee festival, I was done within a week and then went back to London. Or during the elections, I usually max out my profession in just a couple of days, and the rest of the time is spent on Notability. Perhaps they did intend to force prioritisation and curb completionism, but if so, I believe that it's a first. -- Dudebro Pyro, eccentric scholar Spare Starveling Kitties always welcome. I collect them. For that matter, send me your unwanted cat boxes too.
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Kaijyuu Posts: 1047 10/25/2017	I seriously did not notice the upvote/downvote system until you mentioned it just now. I guess it's one of those things I unconsciously filter out. -- Be of good cheer. Our contacts have assured us that your sins are forgiven.
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Anne Auclair Posts: 2215 10/25/2017	Why are my posts being systematically downvoted? -_- What a weird reaction. -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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dov Posts: 2580 10/25/2017	Optimatum wrote: When even endgame players can't accomplish everything, there's clearly an issue in the design. I think that the idea is that (unless you spend Fate), you're not supposed to get everything. Similar to how you can't get everything during the Feast of the Rose, no matter how deep in the end-game you are. I agree it's a bit disappointing, especially since in past years you could get everything. -- Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how. (Most social actions are welcome. Please no requests to Loiter Suspiciously and no investigations of the Affluent Photographer)
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xKiv Posts: 846 10/25/2017	Anne Auclair wrote: Why are my posts being systematically downvoted? -_- What a weird reaction. You are infamous! I didn't think they would only implement the original intent of renown on the forums. And preemtively. -- https://www.fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xKiv - a witchful, percussive, dangermous and shadowry scholar of coexplodence, hopsidirean, and walker of fallen kitties.
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Tay1or Posts: 163 10/26/2017	MidnightVoyager wrote: I would rather have had many fewer items, new art for them, and a less crappy grind. Or just nothing, if they're going to insist on a horrible grind for new things. I say this as someone who specifically collects the thing they are making more of and was excited for this holiday for that reason in particular. I expect every new plot thing to be gated behind a progressively more expensive and painful grind, but when there's not even plot at the end of it, it's... just tiring. 29 BDR, just got back to 9, here I go again... Bingo.
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Koenig Posts: 466 10/26/2017	I pity any players actively seeking to become a paramount presence who are also interested in Hallowmas; I sure know I feel conflicted about losing the notability I have been grinding for weeks. -- Koenig: Extraordinary. Invisible. Shattering. Legendary.
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Anne Auclair Posts: 2215 10/25/2017	Optimatum wrote: Anne Auclair wrote: So the Festival being more limited seems clearly motivated to nudge people towards fate and increasing the return on investment. And as much as I'd like everything to be free, FB needs to pay people, keep the lights on, nurture other indie developers, and develop a major game for release (all game development having a degree of risk, more so for smaller studios). So, I'm not so bothered by this...it's how the company makes a lot of its money. You're right, a lot of free-to-play games are designed that way. Fallen London hasn't been, at least up until now. A lot of content does have options to speed things up with Fate, whether to skip grinding items for a ship or get out of a menace zone instantly or just get more actions directly, but all of that content lets you do things the slow way. Content either explicitly requires Fate from the start or can be done entirely for free. This Hallowmas setup implies you can get everything for free, but in practice the deadline pressure means either shelling out Fate or missing the goal. That's one way to look at it. Another way is that you can get any one or two big items or companions without paying fate, you can get multiple minor items or companions without paying fate, but after a certain amount of acquisition you probably need to either budget or pay fate. So lets say you want the Suave Henchmen before anything else? He's yours! In the Feast of the Exceptional Rose he'd be locked behind a paywall. I can see why this system would be less than pleasing for the collector, but at the same time it's a wonderful boon for the bargain shopper. If you're the type who is inclined to pick and choose, this is very nice. . The sneaky thing isn't so much the time limit - all festivals have time limits. It's more that everything is special limited edition content, which makes it more desirable than something you could get every year at your leisure. Though limited edition content has already been done in the Election and Zee Festivals, just not to this degree. Still, the degree is new and worth pointing out. If you're the sort to get really caught up in "limited time offers" then I'd suggest extra degree of awareness and detachment, lest you get too caught up. Also, I wonder how sustainable a New Content Every Year Hallowmas actually is. Like, we're already approaching an oversupply of companions. My character could open another level of the Labyrinth of Tigers if she was so inclined. . edited by Anne Auclair on 10/25/2017 -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Tay1or Posts: 163 10/25/2017	Add to that, no new items at the Zee Festival, and no new art for this year's Hallowmas Companions--not at all pleased.
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annalibertas Posts: 161 10/26/2017	Teaspoon wrote: ...if you want in-game justification, it is like this: Our Mayor is a dratted so-and-so who finds the spectacle of all London distraught and anxious to be a most hilarious sight! (Not saying this wouldn't have also happened if the DTC was Mayor, but then, she would not have been flogging off Dangerous weapons at a preposterous price, would she?) Honestly if failbetter had put text to that effect in the game anywhere I would've thought the change was hilarious and been all for it Optimatum wrote: a Nice Friend wrote: Ideally the Temperance Campaigner's 60 favour item would have been the honey well. The whole thing. I still want that well. Introducing the new home comfort: A Really, Really High Spacebat Ghost It gives +77 A Connoisseur of Neathy Delights. edited by Optimatum on 10/26/2017 Aw damn now I really wish DTC had won edited by annalibertas on 10/26/2017 -- https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Anna%20Libertas Accepting all social actions & boxed cats https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Julliah%20Randolph Alt, will accept all social actions whenever I log on
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rahv7 Posts: 294 10/26/2017	I think I've mentioned it in a previous post, but it's worth repeating that Notability is in my opinion a bad requirement anyway, and not only because it's boring to grind. Dov has BDR33 and has at least a chance to get every companion. But if you can't spend 100 Fate on a Rubbery Spouse, your max BDR is already down to 30. If you can't spend Fate at all, the BDR limit is 22 (I think). And that doesn't even include role-playing decisions, such as missing out on BDR because you won't to SMEN or you prefer to have a Zub instead of a Yacht. You're pretty fast at a point where the Waves-grind doesn't make sense. Even for endgame players. -- It's possible people have forgotten that there is an actual devil in the actual Lord Mayor's office. A devil who is promising to look after people's souls. What is wrong with everybody? https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/rahv7
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Tay1or Posts: 163 10/26/2017	Yep--notability grinding is so boring, and I agree about hard on the tendons. I got the Nerves but have no interest whatsoever in PP. I'm not willing to grind for even 1 confession after spending a month on the Sinews. Add to that, since I traded all my notability for the Nerves, I need to wait for that darn card to get to 1, and it hasn't shown up all week. edited by Tay1or on 10/26/2017
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Tyrconnell Posts: 271 10/26/2017	+20 Dangerous, -5 Intoxicating. That stat on wines items was all part of the long game. -- Tyrconnell, a gentleman and doctor of diverse interests and multifarious proclivities
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Reused NPC Posts: 259 10/26/2017	Let it never be said that Failbetter didn't care for their players and fans. -- ReusedNPC, a d__ned lunatic. Edmund Viric, a rather dreamy sort. "I won't stay long, I shan't stay long! Tell me a secret." --the Baldomerian
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Jolanda Swan Posts: 1784 10/27/2017	Thank you for listening. I am not a completionist myself but putting an item like the Lance on display sort of compelled us to strive for it. Which means I sacrificed my Notability 15 to get started. I do not mind striving for worthy items, but come on, this is a narrative game. There are so many avenues (heists, promenade, expeditions) that make much more sense and feel more like a a Victorian adventure that the hated notability grind. I understand that it is much easier on designers who are already burdened with so much new content but still, the choice made a fun festival burdensome. -- Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play. http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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lady ciel Posts: 2548 10/26/2017	I will enjoy seeing what I can achieve during this Hallowmas but I'm not in a position to pay fate for confessions and I only recently got to Notability 15 (after losing a level by not paying enough attention before Time arrived) so do not have the resources for the Notability grind. In last year's Hallowmas upgrading all the companions resulted in a bonus all year around on the One's Public Card. Also there are the new Feducci options to see as well. I haven't worked out how many confessions would be needed to get everything but it is definitely out of my reach this year. So I am a bit disappointed in the new level of Notability required to upgrade the companions. I understand that Failbetter can't lower that now (as it would upset people who have already spent 8 Notability for confessions) but I do hope that they understand how difficult the Notability grind is and how dependency on card flipping is not fun during a time limited event. Maybe having the Amanuensis around during Hallowmas even if you don't have that first point of Notability would help. This doesn't even consider players who aren't POSI and therefore do not have Notability to buy confessions. I do think there have been some good suggestions in this topic about getting confessions by using heists; flash lays; Pickpocket's promenades; etc. to open things up to more people. I don't know how difficult it would be to add confessions as rewards to those but maybe it is something to be considered by Failbetter for next year. I do appreciate what Failbetter do and how responsive they have been to player feedback. -- ciel Sorry RL means I am not a very active player at the moment. No social actions unless you are prepared to wait and definitely no sparring or other mult-action things. No Calling Cards or boxed cats please. Will take dupes on the affluent photographers. Other social invitations welcome. Parabolan Kittens usually available, send me an in-game social action saying you want one and I will get one to you as soon as possible. storynexus name - reveurciel
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Skinnyman Posts: 2133 10/26/2017	lady ciel wrote: snipI understand that Failbetter can't lower that now (as it would upset people who have already spent 8 Notability for confessions) snip Hell, no! Waiting for my 3rd, but I'll never be mad by such a decision! I'm only mad that, even with 13 freebies, it'll be close to impossible for many people to get all companions and the lovely lance! Oh, and mad about the fact that last year's companions, except the Tigress, cost 2 confessions, some E and the doll even some Fate. The cost to get them this year aren't close to their real value! Doll was 3 Fate, few AP and two confessions costing 10 Fate while, an urchin was 28.8E and two confessions with a cost of 20 Fate. -- ESs items and quality requirements sheet. Please check if there are errors or if something is missing Achievement list if you're feeling bored! I am accepting Plant battles, Neath's Mysteries card, Starveling Cats and boxed cats. No suppers, no second chances gain and no need to cure my menaces!
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Koenig Posts: 466 10/26/2017	Absintheuse wrote: Delicious friends, after reviewing some feedback we've decided that this Hallowmas, 13 free confessions will be given out, in comparison to last year's 8. Thank you for your feedback on the Notability grind, it was intended to allow hardcore players to get a few more confessions than other players, but seems to function more of a burden than a kindness! We'll take this into consideration for the festival for next year. A hearty thankyou! -- Koenig: Extraordinary. Invisible. Shattering. Legendary.
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Dudebro Pyro Posts: 755 10/26/2017	Huzzah! Although I still don't think it's actually possible to obtain everything without fate, at least getting all the companions might now be feasible for 30+BDR players. And my own little wishlist is suddenly achievable! -- Dudebro Pyro, eccentric scholar Spare Starveling Kitties always welcome. I collect them. For that matter, send me your unwanted cat boxes too.
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osberend Posts: 36 10/27/2017	(To be clear: Yes, Scheme can be stockpiled. But the nasty thing about the cyclical nature of building and dumping Notability is that a far portion of each cycle is spent at Notability levels where burning Scheme to increase Making Waves would be outright insane (and even then, you'd still be limited by how often the Townhouse card came up).) I will say, as a bit of advice to others: Unless you have more Scheme than you know what to do with, I would really recommend against increasing Notability to 9. The Townhouse card comes up on average 2.5 times as often as the Amanuensis card; use those arrivals (and any that occur when you only need another 10 CP of MW to summon the Amanuensis or whatever) to build more Scheme, rather than to spend it. You'll get more over the course of two weeks that way. ETA: And when in doubt, save Scheme now, so you'll have more to spend next week when the average value of a Confession will be higher. edited by osberend on 10/27/2017
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dov Posts: 2580 10/26/2017	Plynkes wrote: If they have retained that feature, then I suppose they thought the high-end grinder-type players would relish the challenge of it being super-hard, the bragging rights being that much more valuable. The ones who inhabit the forum don't seem to have taken it that way, though, unfortunately. It's a decent challenge for endgame players. The issue though is that the mechanics for gaining Notability is designed so that you invest a lot to increase it over time (spend weeks waiting for the cards to increase your Scheme to then gain lots of MW in one go). It's not best suited for a time limited event. -- Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how. (Most social actions are welcome. Please no requests to Loiter Suspiciously and no investigations of the Affluent Photographer)
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dov Posts: 2580 10/26/2017	Plynkes wrote: Personally, I'm not one of those people who imagined we would be able to get everything. I always see the festival items as an array of choices, rather than a list of things I simply must have every one of. I didn't realise there were people who thought like that until I saw the vehement complaints on the forum. It was a bit of an eye-opener for me. I suppose if you figure we should be entitled to get everything these are all valid concerns. Seems like Failbetter disagree, mind. I thought so too, but people have raised a very good point: in the aftermath of Hallowmas, there are options based on the upgraded companions you got, and one of those is a special option if you've managed to upgrade them all (and it gives the best reward, which is applicable year-round in the One's Public card). So FBG do plan out for completionists and actually implement special rewards for doing so. This naturally encourages people to try to get everything. -- Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how. (Most social actions are welcome. Please no requests to Loiter Suspiciously and no investigations of the Affluent Photographer)
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Teaspoon Posts: 866 10/26/2017	Who doesn't want that more than a lance! *awaits the inevitable chorus of "I do!"'s. -- Truth lies at the bottom of a well. https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Alt%20Ern
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Kaijyuu Posts: 1047 10/25/2017	I'd be perfectly happy with being given a set number of confessions and requiring fate for more. IE, getting rid of the notability grind entirely. Still a choice of which companions to get, still fate purchases for FBG, no encouraging tedious and harrowing grinds. -- Be of good cheer. Our contacts have assured us that your sins are forgiven.
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suinicide Posts: 2409 10/25/2017	rahv7 wrote: Sara Hysaro wrote: I'm personally hoping the bump in Notability is a preemptive move for balance against more free confessions; that'd make Hallowmas more accessible/fun for newbies without taking away the previous challenge of last year. I was hoping that, too. But unfortunately it doesn't look like we'll get more confessions. You need 21 Confessions to get all companions + another 15 for the lance (probably less with next week's confessions). Considering that the festival only lasts 14 days and we got no confession today, I don't think they'll give more confessions for free. edited by rahv7 on 10/25/2017 Last year they gave out free confessions every other day I think, so I would wait until tomorrow to judge that. -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence. RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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rahv7 Posts: 294 10/25/2017	Sara Hysaro wrote: I'm personally hoping the bump in Notability is a preemptive move for balance against more free confessions; that'd make Hallowmas more accessible/fun for newbies without taking away the previous challenge of last year. I was hoping that, too. But unfortunately it doesn't look like we'll get more confessions. You need 21 Confessions to get all companions + another 15 for the lance (probably less with next week's confessions). Considering that the festival only lasts 14 days and we got no confession today, I don't think they'll give more confessions for free. edited by rahv7 on 10/25/2017 -- It's possible people have forgotten that there is an actual devil in the actual Lord Mayor's office. A devil who is promising to look after people's souls. What is wrong with everybody? https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/rahv7
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alekth Posts: 80 10/24/2017	It sort of feels like the Church favours conversion. Super high BDRs in the current case still have a hard time, but will manage quite a bit. Newer players might as well not bother much at all and at least be able to shrug it off, and enjoy something else. For people mid-way the grind is a stressful and glum experience, and one where they will get a lot less than what they were expecting and preparing for. -- Ray Trevelyan Josephine Montilyet Aileas Amell - NORTH
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Waterpls Posts: 324 10/25/2017	I'm playing less than a year, 26 BDR. Gonna get that lance and maybe one companion if i am lucky. Yeah, its hard times even for hardcore players. -- Long grinds: Heptagoat 100/180; Cider Done; Correspondence 21/21; Paramount 4/4.
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Waterpls Posts: 324 10/25/2017	>>>Maybe 5 Notability was too low to impose real scarcity It depends on average BDR. Of course i have no data, but i guess its less than 20 BDR for average/median POSI. -- Long grinds: Heptagoat 100/180; Cider Done; Correspondence 21/21; Paramount 4/4.
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Anne Auclair Posts: 2215 10/25/2017	Drake Dynamo wrote: Anne Auclair wrote: Drake Dynamo wrote: Anne Auclair wrote: Every festival is meant to be unique, is it not? Unique in content, perhaps... And mechanics. Ah I've forgotten how much I missed you taking my words out of context. I also said this: "I think it's fair to say most players wouldn't put that at the top of their list of priorities when it comes to new features." (Emphasis added) My point is, even if this is unique (and I'm not debating you on whether it is or not), it's not unique in a good way. It does not have a positive outcome for players looking to collect everything. I didn't take your words out of context. All the festivals have a certain mechanical uniqueness. The Festival of the Zee has fishing and the visit to the cove. Sackmas has visits from Mr Sacks and Lacre. The Election has election career, election resources, and a team competition. The Feast of the Exceptional Rose has the exchange of Rose Gifts and Masquing. It's also worth pointing out that in the Feast of the Exceptional Rose in particular it is impossible to collect everything without paying fate. So it's not actually true that all other festivals allow you to collect every item or companion that is on offer and that this change to Hallowmas is therefore something exceptional. Anyway, I'm only theorizing that their original plan was to have a certain amount of scarcity in confessions, to make trading and prioritization important in free play, but the plan didn't quite work out as they accidentally made confessions too easy to attain. Hence the higher notability grind and the introduction of an alternative way to spend confessions. Naturally, it's all designed with the intent of increasing demand while decreasing supply and nudging collectors towards purchasing more confessions with fate. Which is fair enough, as it's a free-to-play system and those who don't want to pay fate can still get several new items or companions (just as those who don't want to spend fate in the Election can still get one new item or companion fate-free when they choose a candidate). So if you want to play free, you need to prioritize and really play the confession market. If you want everything, you'll need to pay fate. . edited by Anne Auclair on 10/25/2017 -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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rahv7 Posts: 294 10/25/2017	I was assuming something like one confession per day. But you are right, of course, we could get multiple confessions each time. keeps fingers crossed -- It's possible people have forgotten that there is an actual devil in the actual Lord Mayor's office. A devil who is promising to look after people's souls. What is wrong with everybody? https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/rahv7
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xKiv Posts: 846 10/25/2017	rahv7 wrote: I was hoping that, too. But unfortunately it doesn't look like we'll get more confessions. You need 21 Confessions to get all companions + another 15 for the lance (probably less with next week's confessions). Considering that the festival only lasts 14 days and we got no confession today, I don't think they'll give more confessions for free. Last year, the free confessions didn't come every day either. I think it was the 4 total in the beginning, then 1 every two/three days? Otherwise I wouldn't have had any from the second week. And I had enough for several things. rahv7 wrote: I was assuming something like one confession per day. But you are right, of course, we could get multiple confessions each time. keeps fingers crossed I am pretty sure it was only one confession at a time. edited by xKiv on 10/25/2017 -- https://www.fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xKiv - a witchful, percussive, dangermous and shadowry scholar of coexplodence, hopsidirean, and walker of fallen kitties.
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Reused NPC Posts: 259 10/25/2017	All I know is, I can kiss my Laconic Prodigy goodbye for a good long while while these points of Scheme go elsewhere... -- ReusedNPC, a d__ned lunatic. Edmund Viric, a rather dreamy sort. "I won't stay long, I shan't stay long! Tell me a secret." --the Baldomerian
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Waterpls Posts: 324 10/26/2017	Lance is practically replacement for Waxwail Knife. So developers actually care about new players. But in weird way, because that notability grind is too hard for most of newbie POSIs. -- Long grinds: Heptagoat 100/180; Cider Done; Correspondence 21/21; Paramount 4/4.
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Anne Auclair Posts: 2215 10/25/2017	I think it's worth pointing out that the new Hallowmas is a bit more intensive time and resource wise than any other Festivals, except maybe the Election. It requires almost completely new content every year: confessions, the Mayor, companions, items... The Feast of the Exceptional Rose, Sackmas, and the Festival of the Zee are much more low key, with any changes amounting to minor tweaks. So the Festival being more limited seems clearly motivated to nudge people towards fate and increasing the return on investment. And as much as I'd like everything to be free, FB needs to pay people, keep the lights on, nurture other indie developers, and develop a major game for release (all game development having a degree of risk, more so for smaller studios). So, I'm not so bothered by this...it's how the company makes a lot of its money (I paid fate for my Profoundly Educated Gentleman at the Rose Feast - couldn't get it any other way, as opposed to the Midnight Matriarch of the Menagerie of Roses, which I only need three free confessions for). -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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suinicide Posts: 2409 10/25/2017	The NPC confession trading should help with this. I think FBG started putting several trading NPCs around london as hallowmas came to a close last year, so that's extra help too. -- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence. RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Barse Posts: 706 10/25/2017	alekth wrote: Where does the game say next week's confessions would be worth more for Feducci? I must have missed that text, or is it only there when you trade a favour? The text that Catherine quoted is in the No Secret Is Safe storylet, under A Hallowmas Primer - "Feducci Welcomes Confessions". edited by Barse on 10/25/2017 -- The Scorched Sailor, up for most social actions and RP. Not as scary as he looks.
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Waterpls Posts: 324 10/25/2017	earthbourn wrote: The fact that the confessions aren't created equal is problematic in itself. Unless we're guaranteed to get second-week confessions in the second week, some players are necessarily going to be SOL while others will have a much better chance of getting Feducci's rewards. Also, how will this influence confession trading? How will people who only have lower-tier confessions trade for more valuable ones? Hmm what is exactly stopping anybody to create couple of new accounts, gather confessions and trade with main character? NPC traders might make it unnecessary. edited by Waterpls on 10/25/2017 -- Long grinds: Heptagoat 100/180; Cider Done; Correspondence 21/21; Paramount 4/4.
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Barse Posts: 706 10/25/2017	Catherine Raymond wrote: I got a free confession from Clathermont today, but it doesn't seem to be one acceptable to Feducci. What gives? Clathermont's is one of the weird story ones that we'll get a chance to keep/sell at the end of the festival - like the Campaigner's yesterday. It's confusing (and was just as confusing last year! I had hoped FBG would make the distinction clearer this year) but generally if you get italicised story result text upon receiving it, it's one of these story ones, and if the result text says "You've gained 1x [x]'s Confession" then it's one of the currency confessions you can give to Feducci or upgrade companions with. -- The Scorched Sailor, up for most social actions and RP. Not as scary as he looks.
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Catherine Raymond Posts: 2518 10/25/2017	Barse wrote: Catherine Raymond wrote: I got a free confession from Clathermont today, but it doesn't seem to be one acceptable to Feducci. What gives? Clathermont's is one of the weird story ones that we'll get a chance to keep/sell at the end of the festival - like the Campaigner's yesterday. It's confusing (and was just as confusing last year! I had hoped FBG would make the distinction clearer this year) but generally if you get italicised story result text upon receiving it, it's one of these story ones, and if the result text says "You've gained 1x [x]'s Confession" then it's one of the currency confessions you can give to Feducci or upgrade companions with. Sigh. I didn't expect that it would be eligible for improving a Companion, but I did hope that Feducci would take it. Guess that was wishful thinking. Thanks, Barse. -- Cathy Raymond http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355 Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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Catherine Raymond Posts: 2518 10/25/2017	One thing to bear in mind in calculating the likelihood of reaching objectives without spending Fate is the Hallowmas Primer text about Feducci and confessions: "For the duration of the festival, you may choose to sell your confessions to Feducci to gain his Favour. Confessions added in the second week of the festival are worth more to him. You can expend some of Feducci's Favour to receive benefits." (emphasis mine). This suggests to me that you get more points of Feducci's Favor for second-week Confessions. How much more is unclear right now, but it may change the odds on getting the Feducci rewards, such as the Lance, at least. -- Cathy Raymond http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355 Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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Optimatum Posts: 3666 10/25/2017	More Feducci's Favour for the second-week Confessions is good, but don't forget that which confession you get will still be random. If we can't get half the confessions until then, every confession gain will still have a 50% chance of being a first-week confession. We can't grind confessions now but not open them until next week, so any excess confessions after getting all the companions will almost certainly be first-week ones. -- Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome. Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi! PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Siankan Posts: 1048 10/25/2017	Optimatum wrote: If we can't get half the confessions until then, every confession gain will still have a 50% chance of being a first-week confession. Now, I could be misremembering from a year ago, but as I recall, all of the confessions from Week 2 were from that set. The options flipped completely. While this does screw you over if you're not prepared for the change, it makes it a lot easier if you are. That said, remembering my own name feels like an accomplishment at the moment, so I stand ready to be corrected. -- Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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Optimatum Posts: 3666 10/26/2017	Nonono, it would definitely be a Shoe For Slapping Mr Wines With. +20 Dangerous, +5 Sobriety -- Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome. Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi! PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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dov Posts: 2580 10/26/2017	Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook wrote: Assuming the option remains this year - which, given the other changes (Feducci's whole scheme), isn't necessarily a safe bet. Of course. But without further info, all we know is that FBG said this Hallowmas will play mechanically like last year, and that in all previous years there was a special reward from Mr Huffam for completing everything. So it's not surprising that people feel the urge to get it all, since FBG have always explicitly rewarded it in the past and told us things iwll be similar this time around. ---- edited by dov on 10/26/2017 -- Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how. (Most social actions are welcome. Please no requests to Loiter Suspiciously and no investigations of the Affluent Photographer)
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Plynkes Posts: 631 10/26/2017	If they have retained that feature, then I suppose they thought the high-end grinder-type players would relish the challenge of it being super-hard, the bragging rights being that much more valuable. The ones who inhabit the forum don't seem to have taken it that way, though, unfortunately. -- "Then tell Wind and Fire where to stop, but don't tell me."
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Saklad Posts: 528 10/27/2017	I much prefer nigh-impossible tasks over Fate-locked content (looking at you, Feast of the Exceptional Rose), but ideally it should be realistically possible to do everything without paying to win. When planning next year’s Hallowmas, try to at least ensure that every unique piece of content can be accessed in the time allotted. Since the option to give Notability to players without any is still not available, it is extremely improbable that anyone can get more than one Confession per day at the moment. I don’t mind supporting Fallen London with money, and I know writing entirely new content for a fraction of the playerbase can be difficult, but I do feel that Fate should be reserved for stories like the Empress’ Shadow. -- Saklad5, a man of many talents
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The jump from N5 per confession to N8 is not fun.