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The jump from N5 per confession to N8 is not fun. Messages in this topic - RSS

Optimatum
Optimatum
Posts: 3509

10/26/2017
a Nice Friend wrote:
Ideally the Temperance Campaigner's 60 favour item would have been the honey well. The whole thing.

I still want that well.



Introducing the new home comfort: A Really, Really High Spacebat Ghost

It gives +77 A Connoisseur of Neathy Delights.
edited by Optimatum on 10/26/2017

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+5 link
annalibertas
annalibertas
Posts: 161

10/26/2017
Teaspoon wrote:
...if you want in-game justification, it is like this:

Our Mayor is a dratted so-and-so who finds the spectacle of all London distraught and anxious to be a most hilarious sight!

(Not saying this wouldn't have also happened if the DTC was Mayor, but then, she would not have been flogging off Dangerous weapons at a preposterous price, would she?)

Honestly if failbetter had put text to that effect in the game anywhere I would've thought the change was hilarious and been all for it

Optimatum wrote:
a Nice Friend wrote:
Ideally the Temperance Campaigner's 60 favour item would have been the honey well. The whole thing.

I still want that well.



Introducing the new home comfort: A Really, Really High Spacebat Ghost

It gives +77 A Connoisseur of Neathy Delights.
edited by Optimatum on 10/26/2017

Aw damn now I really wish DTC had won
edited by annalibertas on 10/26/2017

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Teaspoon
Teaspoon
Posts: 866

10/26/2017
Who doesn't want that more than a lance!

*awaits the inevitable chorus of "I do!"'s.

--
Truth lies at the bottom of a well.

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gronostaj
gronostaj
Posts: 403

10/26/2017
Teaspoon wrote:
(Not saying this wouldn't have also happened if the DTC was Mayor, but then, she would not have been flogging off Dangerous weapons at a preposterous price, would she?)

why not? who wouldn't want a Replica of DTC's Shoe For Slapping Alcoholics With (+20 dangerous, +2 respectable)

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Optimatum
Optimatum
Posts: 3509

10/26/2017
Nonono, it would definitely be a Shoe For Slapping Mr Wines With. +20 Dangerous, +5 Sobriety

--
Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.

Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!

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Tyrconnell
Tyrconnell
Posts: 259

10/26/2017
+20 Dangerous, -5 Intoxicating.

That stat on wines items was all part of the long game.

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Plynkes
Plynkes
Posts: 601

10/26/2017
Personally, I'm not one of those people who imagined we would be able to get everything. I always see the festival items as an array of choices, rather than a list of things I simply must have every one of. I didn't realise there were people who thought like that until I saw the vehement complaints on the forum. It was a bit of an eye-opener for me. I suppose if you figure we should be entitled to get everything these are all valid concerns. Seems like Failbetter disagree, mind.

What concerns me more than the specifics here is the trend. The way it seems things are going. In a game that is already pretty damn grindy, recent developments seem to suggest they are ramping up the grinding. I have a love/hate relationship with Fallen London. I love the setting, the stories, the atmosphere, the baffling lore, all of that. And I hate the grindy gameplay. Quite simply I've had enough of it, and don't want to do it any more. Not the really extreme grinds, anyway. The Connected/Renown conversions have cured me of that. I'm reconciled to the fact that this means I won't ever have all the nice things, such as a Goat. I think I'm a bit different to many of the other forum dwellers in that way.

What worries me is that a certain type of player will always do these grinds regardless of how awful they are. And I fear this is only encouraging FB to put more toilsome grinds into the game. If nobody did these grinds, perhaps they would have to rethink their design choices a little, and lean on the grinding a little less. But I fear this will never happen, the game will get more tiresome in this way, and people like myself will eventually be driven away. I appreciate that some grinding is necessary in a game like this, it's there to pad out the content like in any MMO, because players will always devour content like locusts, the second it comes out. But I am a tiny bit concerned at the direction we seem to be going in currently, I must say.

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+6 link
dov
dov
Posts: 2556

10/26/2017
Plynkes wrote:
Personally, I'm not one of those people who imagined we would be able to get everything. I always see the festival items as an array of choices, rather than a list of things I simply must have every one of. I didn't realise there were people who thought like that until I saw the vehement complaints on the forum. It was a bit of an eye-opener for me. I suppose if you figure we should be entitled to get everything these are all valid concerns. Seems like Failbetter disagree, mind.

I thought so too, but people have raised a very good point: in the aftermath of Hallowmas, there are options based on the upgraded companions you got, and one of those is a special option if you've managed to upgrade them all (and it gives the best reward, which is applicable year-round in the One's Public card).

So FBG *do* plan out for completionists and actually implement special rewards for doing so. This naturally encourages people to try to get everything.

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+2 link
Diptych
Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3398

10/26/2017
Assuming the option remains this year - which, given the other changes (Feducci's whole scheme), isn't necessarily a safe bet.

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Sara Hysaro
Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514

10/26/2017
I suspect the lance won't be required to get the highest seasonal reward - it's likely a separate thing you go for instead of the full roster of companions. It's also the easier of the two main goals of this year, which is fairly nice of them.

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dov
dov
Posts: 2556

10/26/2017
Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook wrote:
Assuming the option remains this year - which, given the other changes (Feducci's whole scheme), isn't necessarily a safe bet.

Of course.

But without further info, all we know is that FBG said this Hallowmas will play mechanically like last year, and that in all previous years there was a special reward from Mr Huffam for completing everything.

So it's not surprising that people feel the urge to get it all, since FBG have always explicitly rewarded it in the past and told us things iwll be similar this time around.

----
edited by dov on 10/26/2017

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dov
dov
Posts: 2556

10/26/2017
Sara Hysaro wrote:
I suspect the lance won't be required to get the highest seasonal reward - it's likely a separate thing you go for instead of the full roster of companions. It's also the easier of the two main goals of this year, which is fairly nice of them.

I also think so regarding the Lance not playing a part in post-holiday rewards.

But even just getting all companion upgrades will be very difficult for almost all players this time. So even if FBG felt that too many people will get it easily with N5, N8 is a huge difficulty boost.

Personally, I'm not complaining (yet), since we don't know how the rest of the holiday will play out. I'm also in a decent position to try to get them all without Fate, but it's not guaranteed even for me (with max BDR of 33 and lots of Salon Scheme saved up).

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Plynkes
Plynkes
Posts: 601

10/26/2017
If they have retained that feature, then I suppose they thought the high-end grinder-type players would relish the challenge of it being super-hard, the bragging rights being that much more valuable. The ones who inhabit the forum don't seem to have taken it that way, though, unfortunately.

--
"Then tell Wind and Fire where to stop, but don't tell me."
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dov
dov
Posts: 2556

10/26/2017
Plynkes wrote:
If they have retained that feature, then I suppose they thought the high-end grinder-type players would relish the challenge of it being super-hard, the bragging rights being that much more valuable. The ones who inhabit the forum don't seem to have taken it that way, though, unfortunately.

It's a decent challenge for endgame players.

The issue though is that the mechanics for gaining Notability is designed so that you invest a lot to increase it over time (spend weeks waiting for the cards to increase your Scheme to then gain lots of MW in one go). It's not best suited for a time limited event.

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+2 link
Màiread
Màiread
Posts: 385

10/26/2017
What I keep coming back to is that notability grinding isn't actually 'difficult' - at least not in the sense that leads to meaningful gameplay, player engagement and a sense of accomplishment. Learning to play the piano is difficult. Finding all the stray beads in Ōkami, finishing the story mode in Don't Starve - these are difficult. Heck, back when I was a wee rabbit on my purple gameboy colour defeating the Pokémon league was difficult. All of these things require the development of skill, the application of thought, planning and strategising and serious work (and of course a tiny dash of luck). Victory brings elation and pride - to win is to have grown, to have risen to the test. The only things notability grinding challenges are your boredom threshold and the resilience of your tendons. Completing one of the many many notability grinds in the game doesn't make me think 'wow, I'm so proud of myself!' but rather 'thank goodness I can stop now and go and do something fun'. When FL offers so much to enjoy it's a shame to ask players to spend so much of their game time doing something so tedious.

The more notability is used as a time sink barrier to fun content, the more weary and exhausted the players are becoming. (It feels worth comparing to the excitement I felt on figuring out a certain ambition, or back when Passion had yet to be discovered - even the Noman grind was fulfilling since it was both story-driven and required a certain amount of skill in the planning). And in this particular instance annalibertas hit the nail on the noggin - what is the reason for this being so difficult? Paramount Presence? Totally makes sense to require a bunch of Notability (and I wouldn't do it, but I feel the implementation of Fate here is great - you can shorten the grind, but you can't bypass the challenging parts). A time-limited festival where hopefully players get to feel excitement and experience new or returning content which already excludes a whole bunch of players? Eh.

I genuinely don't think it's a problem for an event to exist where you can't get everything in a single year, or where you can get one or two things & the rest cost fate. While irksome to completionists, I also don't think it is a problem for content to cost real money in subsequent years. I DO think it is unsurprising that when the only festival which has always not only allowed but heavily incentivised completionism (got everything from the zee festival? Great! Enjoy your collection. Got everything at Hallowmas? Here, have a significant boost which helps with a grind you're going to be doing over and over again) changes to make that completionism functionally impossible that people are a little confused.

Anyway, I don't think I'll ever enjoy New Hallowmas as much as the old, but that's a matter of tone rather than mechanics, which is a discussion for another time. I'm sure as the festival develops more shall be revealed and perhaps the notability hike will make sense. Regardless, the new companions are as delightful as ever. Fedducci is still a big wobbly bottom in suitable style. I just hope we aren't going to see the game getting even grindier, because that's not difficult, it's just not fun.

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rahv7
rahv7
Posts: 284

10/26/2017
I think I've mentioned it in a previous post, but it's worth repeating that Notability is in my opinion a bad requirement anyway, and not only because it's boring to grind.

Dov has BDR33 and has at least a chance to get every companion. But if you can't spend 100 Fate on a Rubbery Spouse, your max BDR is already down to 30. If you can't spend Fate at all, the BDR limit is 22 (I think). And that doesn't even include role-playing decisions, such as missing out on BDR because you won't to SMEN or you prefer to have a Zub instead of a Yacht.

You're pretty fast at a point where the Waves-grind doesn't make sense. Even for endgame players.

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Tay1or
Tay1or
Posts: 163

10/26/2017
Yep--notability grinding is so boring, and I agree about hard on the tendons. I got the Nerves but have no interest whatsoever in PP. I'm not willing to grind for even 1 confession after spending a month on the Sinews. Add to that, since I traded all my notability for the Nerves, I need to wait for that darn card to get to 1, and it hasn't shown up all week.
edited by Tay1or on 10/26/2017
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Absintheuse
Absintheuse
Posts: 348

10/26/2017
Delicious friends, after reviewing some feedback we've decided that this Hallowmas, 13 free confessions will be given out, in comparison to last year's 8. Thank you for your feedback on the Notability grind, it was intended to allow hardcore players to get a few more confessions than other players, but seems to function more of a burden than a kindness! We'll take this into consideration for the festival for next year.
+28 link
lady ciel
lady ciel
Posts: 2545

10/26/2017
I will enjoy seeing what I can achieve during this Hallowmas but I'm not in a position to pay fate for confessions and I only recently got to Notability 15 (after losing a level by not paying enough attention before Time arrived) so do not have the resources for the Notability grind. In last year's Hallowmas upgrading all the companions resulted in a bonus all year around on the One's Public Card. Also there are the new Feducci options to see as well. I haven't worked out how many confessions would be needed to get everything but it is definitely out of my reach this year.


So I am a bit disappointed in the new level of Notability required to upgrade the companions. I understand that Failbetter can't lower that now (as it would upset people who have already spent 8 Notability for confessions) but I do hope that they understand how difficult the Notability grind is and how dependency on card flipping is not fun during a time limited event. Maybe having the Amanuensis around during Hallowmas even if you don't have that first point of Notability would help.

This doesn't even consider players who aren't POSI and therefore do not have Notability to buy confessions. I do think there have been some good suggestions in this topic about getting confessions by using heists; flash lays; Pickpocket's promenades; etc. to open things up to more people. I don't know how difficult it would be to add confessions as rewards to those but maybe it is something to be considered by Failbetter for next year.

I do appreciate what Failbetter do and how responsive they have been to player feedback.

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Skinnyman
Skinnyman
Posts: 1858

10/26/2017
lady ciel wrote:
*snip*I understand that Failbetter can't lower that now (as it would upset people who have already spent 8 Notability for confessions) *snip*

Hell, no! Big Grin Waiting for my 3rd, but I'll never be mad by such a decision! I'm only mad that, even with 13 freebies, it'll be close to impossible for many people to get all companions and the lovely lance!
Oh, and mad about the fact that last year's companions, except the Tigress, cost 2 confessions, some E and the doll even some Fate. The cost to get them this year aren't close to their real value! Doll was 3 Fate, few AP and two confessions costing 10 Fate while, an urchin was 28.8E and two confessions with a cost of 20 Fate.

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