Jermaine Vendredi
Posts: 588
10/25/2017
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As someone who has been playing for around 18 months, my take on this is different. Increasing Notability is such a pain, I'd never dream of spending it on a single confession. There are much more interesting things to spend fate on, too.
A gaggle of companions I will never use and cannot sell seems pointless. I might get the odd one that appeals for other reasons (cats! rats! bats! even weasels!), but I would never feel I needed or wanted to have all of them.
I appreciate the free stuff and the different play options and text, but there is no goal I feel I have to reach.
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No plant battles, please.
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Jermion
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
10/25/2017
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Why are my posts being systematically downvoted? -_-
What a weird reaction.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Jermaine Vendredi
Posts: 588
10/25/2017
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Anne Auclair wrote:
Why are my posts being systematically downvoted? -_-
What a weird reaction.
You know, I wondered that when I read the thread earlier. I tried to identify the conflict and really couldn't.
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No plant battles, please.
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Jermion
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Kaijyuu
Posts: 1047
10/25/2017
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I seriously did not notice the upvote/downvote system until you mentioned it just now.
I guess it's one of those things I unconsciously filter out.
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Be of good cheer. Our contacts have assured us that your sins are forgiven.
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Wilhelm Klossner
Posts: 35
10/25/2017
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Anne Auclair wrote:
Anyway, I'm only theorizing that their original plan was to have a certain amount of scarcity in confessions, to make trading and prioritization important in free play, but the plan didn't quite work out as they accidentally made confessions too easy to attain.
Scarcity or not, the current system completely prevents the majority of newer players from even trying to attain bonus Confessions.
What is even worse — grinding Making Waves is infamously unpopular. And that is the only way of getting new Confessions, if you are not willing or able to purchase Fate.
It definitely needs to be changed or expanded upon. No player should be excluded from the seasonal events or their additional activities.
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Big Scary Mouse — Gone NORTH
Wilhelm Klossner
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Kaijyuu
Posts: 1047
10/25/2017
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Just get rid of notability option entirely if they expect us to spend fate to get additional confessions. That way we're no longer encouraged to do decidedly unfun things.
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Be of good cheer. Our contacts have assured us that your sins are forgiven.
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
10/25/2017
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Wilhelm Klossner wrote:
It definitely needs to be changed or expanded upon. No player should be excluded from the seasonal events or their additional activities.
I don't think anyone is excluded by the new scarcity - it's more that they're limited by it.
In some ways this Festival seems more open than the Feast of the Exceptional Rose, as you can get every Hallowmas item or companion (save Sister Lydia) without paying fate, whereas in the Rose Feast there is a hard fate wall separating lower and higher companions. In the Feast of the Exceptional Rose, the Tiger or the Matriarch would require fate. In this festival, you just need the relevant confessions, which you can certainly get without paying anything. It's just less open compared to the previous Hallowmas, as there will be fewer confessions in circulation due to the Nostalgia increase.
edited by Anne Auclair on 10/25/2017
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Aniline
Posts: 144
10/25/2017
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Anne Auclair wrote:
I don't think anyone is excluded by the new scarcity - it's more that they're limited by it.
I don't know how anyone can claim that a story reset for 20 Fate is "exploitative", but a random confession for 15 is par for the course.
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Melantha Prescott, the Suspicious Statistician. "3% failure chances crop up nine times out of ten."
Francesca Ayers-Kernighan, bat-hunter, cat-whisperer
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
10/25/2017
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I'm very much an end-game player. I've spent a fair amount of Fate optimizing my BDR. But... I'm already pretty sure that, even if I use every single action and card I get over the next two weeks, I'll still need to spend Fate to get everything. That's ridiculous! When even endgame players can't accomplish everything, there's clearly an issue in the design. And what about newer PoSIs? I remember what it was like to grind Notability with only a handful of BDR. What about non-PoSIs, who can barely participate at all?
The biggest issue with this grind for me is that the Notability mechanics are clearly not designed for such a time-limited thing. Getting to Notability 8 is certainly doable for me, but what next? Either I have to sit around hoping to draw the Amanuensis or I have to grind to Notability 9. Either way I have to spend a lot of extra time after I've reached my goal, not for any further gain, but just to be even allowed to start the grind again. It's silly.
This grind simply isn't fun, for anyone. Nobody can realistically complete the grind without spending Fate. That leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
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Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
 Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Televangelist
Posts: 109
10/25/2017
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Anne Auclair wrote:
Why are my posts being systematically downvoted? -_-
What a weird reaction.
It's not systematic, you're just not really arguing in good faith or making anything remotely resembling a persuasive point, and people tend to dislike that sort of thing. I happen to disagree with you on this issue, but it's less about the disagreement, and more about your not engaging constructively.
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dov
Posts: 2580
10/25/2017
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Optimatum wrote:
When even endgame players can't accomplish everything, there's clearly an issue in the design.
I think that the idea is that (unless you spend Fate), you're not supposed to get everything. Similar to how you can't get everything during the Feast of the Rose, no matter how deep in the end-game you are.
I agree it's a bit disappointing, especially since in past years you could get everything.
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 Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how.
(Most social actions are welcome. Please no requests to Loiter Suspiciously and no investigations of the Affluent Photographer)
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rahv7
Posts: 294
10/25/2017
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I have BDR 27 (same as last year) and that is pretty much the most I can get based on a few roleplaying decisions (such as not doing SMEN) and not being able to spend insane amounts of Fate.
I've checked the numbers on how many total CP of Making Waves I need for a confession and it comes down to this:
- Last year I always got Notability 6 before getting a confession which required a total of ~150 CP of Waves (i.e. the cumulative amount for raising Notability to level 1,2,..., 6)
- If I want to raise Notability to 8 (i.e. without having the additional point so I don't need to draw the card) it requires already ~530 CP
- If I wanted to go to Notability 9 it would be another 300 CP for total of ~830 CP
Outside of having insane amounts of Scheme, I don't see how it would make sense to actually grind Waves to get Confessions. If I did nothing else within those two weeks I'd be able to get 3 or maybe 4 additional confessions at best. That means one or two more companions. I don't think that's really worth it (especially when none of the companions are best in slot).
For anyone without Ratwork Velocipede, Übergoat/Owl, etc. the numbers are even worse. I don't really see what the rationale for the increased Notability requirement is.
And I'd love to see alternative ways to get Confessions, maybe via Favours or some other qualities like Casing. I don't know. It need not be easy but it should be something that doesn't lock so many players out of getting most/all rewards.
edited by rahv7 on 10/25/2017
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It's possible people have forgotten that there is an actual devil in the actual Lord Mayor's office. A devil who is promising to look after people's souls. What is wrong with everybody?
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/rahv7
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
10/25/2017
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dov wrote:
Optimatum wrote:
When even endgame players can't accomplish everything, there's clearly an issue in the design.
I think that the idea is that (unless you spend Fate), you're not supposed to get everything. Similar to how you can't get everything during the Feast of the Rose, no matter how deep in the end-game you are.
I agree it's a bit disappointing, especially since in past years you could get everything.
The big difference between this and the feast of the rose is stability. You miss something during the feast of the rose and it is there next year for you to get. You miss something during this feast and it is gone forever behind a paywall.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Passionario
Posts: 777
10/25/2017
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Anne Auclair wrote:
Why are my posts being systematically downvoted? -_-
What a weird reaction.
Every thread is meant to be unique, is it not?
Maybe the plan is to have a certain amount of scarcity in forum reputation.
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Passionario: Profile, Story, Ending
Passion: Profile, Appearance
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genesis
Posts: 924
10/25/2017
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I have to confess, even taking account of FBG's desire to make FL not only a game but a game full of meaningful and narrative choices, this implementation seems very flawed.
I disagree with the most literal meaning of Optimatum's view that "When even endgame players can't accomplish everything, there's clearly an issue in the design." I think it's perfectly fine to design the event in such a way that everything is not possible to accomplish. I happen to *dislike* that but it is a valid design choice. So I'll take it as granted that FBG intends for the gameplay to be such that you shouldn't be able to get everything in the majority of cases. Having said that, I do think that a combination of other factors makes this a poor design choice.
One of the most influential talks at GDC of the last couple of years was this talk by Mark Rosewater - head designer of Magic: the Gathering. He discussed several key game design principles. His very first lesson was this: "Fighting against human nature is a losing battle". Meaning that if enough people want to do something that goes against your design intent the problem is not with the players playing wrong but with the design. Another lesson was: "Make the fun part also the correct strategy to win". Meaning that players will optimise regardless of whether it's fun so you need to either make sure that optimising *is* fun or remove avenues where optimising leads to unfun gameplay.
So it's fine if FBG want to exclude the possibility of players getting through all the options. But it's pretty clear that players *want* to get all the companions and all the boons and will indulge in unfun gameplay as long as it's possible.
Here are some factors (most of which have already been mentioned) that really play against FBG's narrative intent here:
1. There is no promise that hard to get options this year will stay next year meaning that players find themselves feeling obliged to get as much as possible this year through an unfun game mechanics
2. We finally have a way to reduce Criminal Record. Unlike the companions that at least can be replicated stats-wise elsewhere, the ability to reduce CR is a unique and very powerful effect. Without knowing that it will still be there next year, players are forced to prioritise it at the expense of fun or narratively meaningful choices
3. The Notability grind is not only unfun but also opaque. It's not immediately clear just how limiting the increase from N5 to N8 is to most players. So a player may start grinding thinking they can get so many boons/companions in the next fortnight only to realise at N7 just how unlikely their hopes are of being fulfilled. It would have been better if at the beginning of the festival it was clear that you can expect to obtain X companions/boons by default and another Y companions/boons if you are an end-game player and everything else would require Fate
4. The Notability grind is not helped/doesn't work organically with other mechanics of the Festival. For example, Attracting Visitors gives you MW. Great, you might think! A perfectly flavourful way to participate in the Festival until you get your Notability. But no! Attracting Visitors gives you MW only up to 11.
edited by genesis on 10/25/2017
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http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/mikey_thinkin
Keeping track of incomplete content and loose ends in Fallen London
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
10/25/2017
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I'm personally hoping the bump in Notability is a preemptive move for balance against more free confessions; that'd make Hallowmas more accessible/fun for newbies without taking away the previous challenge of last year. If we don't receive more free confessions than last year, however, then I'd say the bump is too unforgiving for this year. It might be alright next year, if we don't have a mayor offering a unique and expensive reward.
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Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.
Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
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rahv7
Posts: 294
10/25/2017
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First of all thanks for the link to the talk. This sounds very interesting!
genesis wrote:
I disagree with the most literal meaning of Optimatum's view that "When even endgame players can't accomplish everything, there's clearly an issue in the design." I think it's perfectly fine to design the event in such a way that everything is not possible to accomplish.
The thing here is, that it *is* possible to get everything if you just throw enough money at Failbetter. Yesterday someone over at reddit got Feducci's lance simply by paying 165 Fate.
In another game I wouldn't be surprised if you just needed to pay enough money to get all the fancy stuff nobody else has. But Failbetter's policy concerning the use of Fate has been very fair so far. So this kind of leaves a sour taste...
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It's possible people have forgotten that there is an actual devil in the actual Lord Mayor's office. A devil who is promising to look after people's souls. What is wrong with everybody?
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/rahv7
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rahv7
Posts: 294
10/25/2017
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Sara Hysaro wrote:
I'm personally hoping the bump in Notability is a preemptive move for balance against more free confessions; that'd make Hallowmas more accessible/fun for newbies without taking away the previous challenge of last year.
I was hoping that, too. But unfortunately it doesn't look like we'll get more confessions. You need 21 Confessions to get all companions + another 15 for the lance (probably less with next week's confessions). Considering that the festival only lasts 14 days and we got no confession today, I don't think they'll give more confessions for free.
edited by rahv7 on 10/25/2017
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It's possible people have forgotten that there is an actual devil in the actual Lord Mayor's office. A devil who is promising to look after people's souls. What is wrong with everybody?
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/rahv7
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xKiv
Posts: 846
10/25/2017
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Anne Auclair wrote:
Why are my posts being systematically downvoted? -_-
What a weird reaction.
You are infamous!
I didn't think they would only implement the original intent of renown on the forums. And preemtively.
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https://www.fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xKiv - a witchful, percussive, dangermous and shadowry scholar of coexplodence, hopsidirean, and walker of fallen kitties.
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
10/25/2017
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rahv7 wrote:
Sara Hysaro wrote:
I'm personally hoping the bump in Notability is a preemptive move for balance against more free confessions; that'd make Hallowmas more accessible/fun for newbies without taking away the previous challenge of last year.
I was hoping that, too. But unfortunately it doesn't look like we'll get more confessions. You need 21 Confessions to get all companions + another 15 for the lance (probably less with next week's confessions). Considering that the festival only lasts 14 days and we got no confession today, I don't think they'll give more confessions for free.
edited by rahv7 on 10/25/2017
Last year they gave out free confessions every other day I think, so I would wait until tomorrow to judge that.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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