 Televangelist Posts: 109
9/27/2017
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I assume quite a few people are shooting for a Noman Tattoo this year. However, the guides out there to help you along the way are somewhat outdated, and they focus more on how to spend your Pails and Tears once you've got them than how to prep for the season -- which is the biggest thing that's changed this year.
Since there's not a combined info thread for everyone prepping for 2017, I decided to put all my research into one place. Feel free to suggest additions.
Also, if it sounds like I'm being excessively practical about this, and not really coming at it with Fallen London-esque whimsy, blame Failbetter for making endgame content where if you fail you lose months and months of preparation, not me. When the consequences of failure are so staggeringly high, people take it upon themselves to figure out how not to fail.
Bottom line: You want a lot of Pails, and you want a lot of Tears. As a ballpark, you probably want materials for 20 pails (aka 20 Night Whispers, 140 Storm Threnodies) and 15 Tears to feel comfortable heading into Sacksmas. You've got a long time to accumulate the ingredients for both -- and you've probably been doing so already. But how to get them?
There are some key changes this year. The main gist is that because of the conversion to Favours, your success is now much more dependent on high card draw over a long period of time -- perhaps months -- than you were in the past. The components of both Tears and Pails will require a very large amount of favours to create in an efficient and timely fashion.
Let's start with fate-locked content that you'll ideally want to have:
- Sinning Jenny's Finishing School. This is a huge engine for both card draw and favors, which will be crucial for your production of Pails and Tears.
- The Soul Trade, if you're willing to side with the Shepherds (you should! we're nice!), for Church favours generation.
- The fate-locked boosts to your BDR. Peculiar Rubbery Enhancement from Flute Street, the Golden Spiked Rosary and Tanned Mask from the Feast of the Exceptional Rose, the Ratwork Velocipede, the Bifurcated Owl. Your ability to rapidly generate and regenerate 7 Notability over and over again, whether on command or via cards drawn from your deck, will be a major determinant of how quickly you can produce Tears.
- Some extra fate for expeditions to the Gallery of Serpents, if you're far short of your Tears goals and Sacksmas is right around the corner. $20 worth of Fate will on average get you about four Tears, and tons of additional rewards besides; it's the best exchange of real money for Tears that you'll get.
- If I remember correctly, several of the Exceptional Stories offer Tears as a possible end reward (or was it one of the Seasons?) -- that might be a last-ditch way to get a few more on short notice. I don't remember which ones, but someone else here will.
You'll also want a remote address, obviously, to maximize your deck thinning.
Beyond these, for Tears you'll want:
- Strangling Willow Absinthe (probably from The Affair Of The Box, though if you have a lot of Casing it could make sense to do some Thefts of Particular Character into Tales of Terror and side-convert some into SWA from there)
- Church Favors, which are now required for the up-conversion; if you have high BDR, this is likely to be your biggest chokepoint, since you'll be getting the Presumptuous Opportunity card
- A five-card lodging (for the Nadir once a week, to maximize your odds of drawing End of Battles for more Airag)
- Membership in God's Editors, as another source of Church favors.
- A lot of echoes, if you're a Shepherd, so you can generate huge numbers of Church favours whenever you draw the CVE card.
For Pails, you'll want:
- Night Whispers, which are simple enough to obtain -- Casing in the Flit --> Thefts of Particular Character --> Tales of Terror --> Fidgeting Writer --> exit with Night Whisper.
- Storm Threnodies, which are more complex to produce, and which drive all the other needs below.
- An Overgoat, which you'll use to rob the Bazaar for 8 actions every time you draw the card, using a second chance each time (which doesn't require an additional 8 actions, don't worry) to give yourself a functional 75% success rate.
- Tons and tons of Urchin favors. An incredible number, honestly.
- A Winsome Dispossessed Urchin, as another source of Urchin favors.
- A Gang of Hoodlums, in order to best accumulate Casing in the Flit.
- Access to Flute Street and Monster Breeding in the Labyrinth of Tigers, so that you can start your day by getting a Rubbery Hound from Flute Street. Ordinarily, the 39 actions it takes to go to Flute Street, get a Rubbery Hound, and come back will mean you miss out on a ton of card draw, so it's far from optimal. But if you do the 39 action part in Flute Street when you first wake up in the morning and have 40 actions in your candle, you don't have that problem... each morning, I now flip cards until I get enough useless ones that I'm at 39 or 40 actions and 5 cards remaining in my deck. I then dip down to Flute Street, grab myself a Rubbery Hound, and come back up immediately, resetting my deck to 10 cards. Breed it throughout the rest of the day by Pulling Out All The Stops, and you'll save a lot of effort acquiring Urchins Favours.
(Note that the Pails grind can also be simplified dramatically by doing the Exceptional Story Hojotoho! and choosing what I'd consider to be the 'bad' ending, which gives an option in the Foreign Office grind to obtain Storm Threnodies directly, totally obviating the need for Urchin favors. But I'm going to assume that you don't want to do that, because it would mean you have no soul.)
For both Pails and Favors, if you're at the end of the endgame and seriously planning on a Noman tattoo, your limiting factor this year will likely be favours generation (unless you're not within 1 or 2 the non-SMEN BDR cap, in which case your limiting factor for the Tears will be pails). Aside from getting all the items you need, the things you can do to boost favours generation are fairly limited: your Connected Pet (I set mine to Urchins), your choice of favours from the end of Finishing School (I go with whichever one is the road block for me at this very moment), and then simply thinning your deck as much as humanly possible, plus drawing as many cards as humanly possible -- which means copious use of Finishing School as well as careful use of Polite Invitations, the Nadir, etc. when you have exactly 5 cards in your deck to maximize the 'doubling' effect of leaving and entering those settings.
What does this look like in practice, for me?
- Until I'm where I need to be on Storm Threnodies, I'm taking advantage of the 40 action build-up overnight by starting my morning with the Flute Street carousel, spending 39 actions and 100 foxfire candles to get a Rubbery Hound that I'll then breed into Storm Threnodies with spare actions throughout my day.
- I'm drawing all my cards in a location that doesn't add cards to my deck (though if you were really desperate for Church favors, you could draw in Spite, which gives a card with a very inconvenient way of getting another favor)
- Each day my actions are split between Sinning Jenny's to draw more cards and thus favours, Affair of the Box to get more Strangling Willow Absinthe, and Casing in the Flit to get more Journals of Infamy which I convert to correspondence plaques and then onward to Aeolian Screams and Storm Threnodies. If my progress on one front starts to pull way ahead of the others (tons of wine or plaques piling up, or favours count nearing 7), I shift my focus accordingly.
edited by Televangelist on 9/28/2017
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 Televangelist Posts: 109
9/28/2017
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Listen, this isn't the thread to say I Don't Like The Thing ad infinitum. This is a practical what-works thread about how to deal with The Thing as it is, not as you might wish it to be.
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 Televangelist Posts: 109
9/27/2017
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Fluffy Monotreme wrote:
Long Story Short: The Favours conversion spoiled a lot of Sacksmas for many people.
That was last year. This is this year, and knowing that it's a thing, it's gotta be planned around. Hence this guide, since nobody else stepped up and updated the old ones.
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 Pumpkinhead Posts: 516
9/28/2017
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Fluffy Monotreme wrote:
It still objectively made Sacksmas only harder and not at all easier in any way. Well, since the Noman's friend TtH decreases are something FB balances from year to year, it very well could be that you won't have to grind it up as high as last year since they realize the favors will have made it harder. edited by Pumpkinhead on 9/28/2017
-- McGunn/Bsymstad is on the slow boat, waiting to see if he can find out what death is. (I'm done with London for now. Thanks for everything!) Amanda Albright is a *spoiler* now, like she always wanted.
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 Optimatum Posts: 3666
9/28/2017
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There's lots of references to having a 10-card deck or two candles, so might want to note Exceptional Friendship as one of the ideal Fate things.
Televangelist wrote:
- Sinning Jenny's Finishing School. This is a huge engine for both card draw and favors, which will be crucial for your production of Pails and Tears.
For Cider owners, you can also spend five carnival tickets to gaze into Heart's Mirror while wounded and go to the slow boat, then instantly come back. The best source of tickets I know of is during the FotER and provides 10 tickets per action plus some other odds and ends. With that source you're spending 2.5 actions (plus whatever you do to get wounds) to double your deck twice. Depending on deck clutter this might be better than the finishing school.
Televangelist wrote:
- ...the Golden Spiked Rosary...
Or you could just Seek to get an even better weapon! Totally worth throwing away all the needed items you might already have.
Televangelist wrote:
- Strangling Willow Absinthe (probably from The Affair Of The Box, though if you have a lot of Casing it could make sense to do some Thefts of Particular Character into Tales of Terror and side-convert some into SWA from there)
I did the math on this a year or so ago: if I'm remembering right, it was very slightly more efficient to grind Broken Giant through the Velocipede Squad than to grind Strangling Willow via AotB and upconvert. Now that you need Favours for upconversion, I bet it's even better. Some people will be locked out of the grind though if they chose the wrong ending to the Fate extension. edited by Optimatum on 9/28/2017
-- Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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 ExceptionallyDelicious Posts: 188
9/28/2017
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Some people will be locked out of the grind though if they chose the wrong ending to the Fate extension.
Which there just so happened to be minimal warning for. Why even have a compromise option if it's still the same end result as outright betrayal? Probably not the place for my salt, sorry.
-- Any and all social actions are appreciated, and most will be reciprocated.
DavidJ, a self reflection (main): http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/DavidJ
Damien Erebus, a broken man and aspiring spymaster: http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Damien%20Erebus
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 Sara Hysaro Moderator Posts: 4514
9/28/2017
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The compromise option is there primarily to illustrate why there can't be any compromise in that situation.
-- http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.
Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
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 genesis Posts: 924
9/28/2017
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Aardvark wrote:
- [...]Is it for summoning the Portly Sommelier's card via Favourable Circumstance?
Sommelier and/or Urchin/Church faction cards
- The Echo Bazaar Wiki entry for Time the Healer states that the range of Noman's Friend drop is 101-150. The entry for Giving sustenance to the Noman via the Tears gives an increase in the range of 1-25; the Pails give 5 if given directly, or up to 9 per pail if converted via the Semiotic Monocle. Now, I am not sure how many hits of TtH you need to take to make it for the tatoo - 4? 5? But even if I go with 4, considering a drop of up to 150 Noman's friend per TtH would require you to burn through as much as 600 Noman's Friend over the month or so. Either I'm unaware of something crucial, or this math would indicate that 15 Tears and 20 pails would provide some 370 Noman's friend considering an average gain per Tears. Add the first 100 you get when you obtain the Noman, and you're still at 470, 130 short of 600. Even if you get a bit more lucky than that, the amount of material you stated seems nowhere near a "comfortable" amount, unless you could somehow count for all RNG to provide max numbers by sheer luck...
I haven't checked the figures in OP but it's worth noting that Noman's Friend drop rates are not constant week-on-week. So within a particular week the drop is random but the *range* of that random drop also changes. In early weeks it's relatively mild. You can check this thread for last year's figures.
- Do we expect this to keep getting more challenging by an order of magnitude every year?
Not necessarily. We don't know. Tow years ago was harsher than three years ago but last year was less harsh than two years ago.
-- http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/mikey_thinkin
Keeping track of incomplete content and loose ends in Fallen London
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 xKiv Posts: 846
10/7/2017
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Dudebro Pyro wrote:
Is upconverting from Absinthe really the best way to get Cellars? I always thought the side-streets option worked out cheaper.
Sidestreets cost 15 echoes (and an action) for 1 cellar, iirc. Upconverting used to be significantly cheaper (12.5 echoes of broken giant and 0.2 actions - and it also bonus roughly 0.4 echoes of stuff on average, with the rare success estimated at 5% chance or so, I think). Now it costs a favour (per 10 cellars), which makes it meh, but still better than sidestreets.
-- https://www.fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xKiv - a witchful, percussive, dangermous and shadowry scholar of coexplodence, hopsidirean, and walker of fallen kitties.
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 Televangelist Posts: 109
9/28/2017
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Okay, thinking on it more, it seems optimal to purely focus on the Hound for Storm Threnodies, as 4.75 per day will get you easily to your goal before Sacksmas arrives. That frees up all your Urchins favours for Calling In Favors, which shortens the 12800 scrap mega-grind considerably.
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 Fluffy Posts: 41
9/27/2017
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Long Story Short: The Favours conversion spoiled a lot of Sacksmas for many people.
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 Aardvark Posts: 119
9/28/2017
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Thank you for a very nice and comprehensive guide. Coming into this as an endgame player (who's currently more concerned about Notability grinding for Paramount Presence), I do have a few questions:
- Where exactly does the Notability grind come into the whole thing? Is it for summoning the Portly Sommelier's card via Favourable Circumstance?
- The Echo Bazaar Wiki entry for Time the Healer states that the range of Noman's Friend drop is 101-150. The entry for Giving sustenance to the Noman via the Tears gives an increase in the range of 1-25; the Pails give 5 if given directly, or up to 9 per pail if converted via the Semiotic Monocle. Now, I am not sure how many hits of TtH you need to take to make it for the tatoo - 4? 5? But even if I go with 4, considering a drop of up to 150 Noman's friend per TtH would require you to burn through as much as 600 Noman's Friend over the month or so. Either I'm unaware of something crucial, or this math would indicate that 15 Tears and 20 pails would provide some 370 Noman's friend considering an average gain per Tears. Add the first 100 you get when you obtain the Noman, and you're still at 470, 130 short of 600. Even if you get a bit more lucky than that, the amount of material you stated seems nowhere near a "comfortable" amount, unless you could somehow count for all RNG to provide max numbers by sheer luck...
- Do we expect this to keep getting more challenging by an order of magnitude every year? I currently have quite few Threnodies and not much material for Tears either, so should I just focus on grinding these exclusively because next year will likely double the requirements again, or is it hopeless to start planning this late into the year anyway?
Cheers, Sir Reginald Monteroy
-- Sir Reginald Monteroy, Paramount Glassman, Courier's Footprint, Poet-Laureate and Cider owner.
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Sir Reginald Monteroy
If you desire a sip of Hesperidean Cider, PM me in the game.
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 Televangelist Posts: 109
10/8/2017
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alekth wrote:
Re: Getting Cellars, after some discussion on reddit to confirm my idea, there's also hunting a Plated Seal, Breeding it into a Hound of Heaven and handing it to the Bishop. The cycle should take around 40-42 actions (depending on how quickly one gets Troubled Waters 10 at zee), and gives out 3 cellers and 6 broken giants. Comes out quicker, and you'll never lack for Church favours, however few are needed with this method, since the cycle also gives three of them. edited by alekth on 10/8/2017 edited by alekth on 10/8/2017
Hmm, so about 70-80 actions per Airag? Seems like you'd be waiting on opportunity cards a lot at Zee, unless there's a quicker non-card route to the Seal that I'm missing...
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 alekth Posts: 80
10/9/2017
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Televangelist wrote:
Hmm, so about 70-80 actions per Airag? Seems like you'd be waiting on opportunity cards a lot at Zee, unless there's a quicker non-card route to the Seal that I'm missing...
More along 50-60 actions per airag. Going through the whole 8 times leaves you 2 broken giants short of 35 cellars, in around 320~336 actions. 2-3 actions to convert broken giant into cellars, 21 actions to convert cellars into airag. You'll need to even out the broken giants from somewhere, or have an extra round every once in a while, but it's not too bad.
Raising Troubled Waters to 10 can be very fast with the more reckless pinned storylet, but I think I prefer to rack in some progress in the journey as well (with the extrapolating from the maps choice). Once you have the seal, you still have to make it back to London, and it becomes tricky with troubled waters 10. edited by alekth on 10/9/2017
-- Ray Trevelyan Josephine Montilyet Aileas Amell - NORTH
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 Televangelist Posts: 109
10/10/2017
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Dudebro Pyro wrote:
I remember a discussion some time ago about this, and I think it came out to either 4 or 5 actions of Making It Up as You Go, setting you, on average around 80% of the time or so, around 7 AJE and some odd CP, with a chance of going as high as 8+AJE. Zeal-hunting takes like 2 actions if I remember correctly, and then depending on your luck with cards it takes another 5-10 actions to reach London without any extremely poor luck.
So optimistically, given 23 actions to breed the Zeal (and turn in the Hound for the wine), it could be possible to complete the cycle in 35 actions on a very good run (I think I've done that before actually), but 40 is a more conservative estimate, and the average is likely around 38-40ish. edited by Dudebro Pyro on 10/9/2017
Just asked IRC, this was the response:
| <Televangelist>: what's the optimal way to get to zee, get a plated seal, and get back? | | <Anchovies>: "Steam boldly: Make it up as you go" gives 9 or 18 cp of TW. You need 55 | | <Anchovies>: Use "make it up as you go" to get 54 cp, then play a card which gives only a little bit of TW | | <Anchovies>: And use cards like clinging coral mass, mountain of the unterzee, and so forth, to reach aje 10 | | <Anchovies>: Yeah, it's annoying how Miuayg leaves you 1 cp short and another try can put you 17 cp over (putting you at TW 11 halfway to 12) | | <Tsilla>: Miuayg? | <Anchovies>: "Make it up as you go" <Televangelist>: do I do all the TW, get the seal, then do the AJE cards? <Televangelist>: or when do I do the AJE cards <Anchovies>: Televangelist: play one card which isn't calm seas-exclusive | <Anchovies>: Then use miuayg until you're at lashing waves | | <Anchovies>: The calm seas cards will be wiped from your hand, so you can draw new cards for more chances at cards usable at TW 10+ | | <Anchovies>: Then resume miuayg until TW 10, then seal, then play cards | | | | |
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 Skinnyman Posts: 2133
12/1/2017
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Let's bring this up, shall we?
-- ESs items and quality requirements sheet. Please check if there are errors or if something is missing Achievement list if you're feeling bored! I am accepting Plant battles, Neath's Mysteries card, Starveling Cats and boxed cats. No suppers, no second chances gain and no need to cure my menaces!
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 dov Posts: 2580
1/7/2018
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The big question, of course, is not just when the Wicket closes, but also when pails of snow melt. That is the window in which there's the opportunity to draw the Noman card enough times to actually use all the pails before they melt.
--
Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how. (Most social actions are welcome. Please no requests to Loiter Suspiciously and no investigations of the Affluent Photographer)
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 Televangelist Posts: 109
1/7/2018
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Do we have any word yet on melt rates?
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 idyl Posts: 168
9/28/2017
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Aardvark wrote:
- Where exactly does the Notability grind come into the whole thing? Is it for summoning the Portly Sommelier's card via Favourable Circumstance? Yes, that's correct. If you want to get as many Tears as possible in the quickest manner, grinding Notability to use for Favourable Circumstances helps.
Aardvark wrote:
- The Echo Bazaar Wiki entry for Time the Healer states that the range of Noman's Friend drop is 101-150. The entry for Giving sustenance to the Noman via the Tears gives an increase in the range of 1-25; the Pails give 5 if given directly, or up to 9 per pail if converted via the Semiotic Monocle. Now, I am not sure how many hits of TtH you need to take to make it for the tatoo - 4? 5? But even if I go with 4, considering a drop of up to 150 Noman's friend per TtH would require you to burn through as much as 600 Noman's Friend over the month or so. Either I'm unaware of something crucial, or this math would indicate that 15 Tears and 20 pails would provide some 370 Noman's friend considering an average gain per Tears. Add the first 100 you get when you obtain the Noman, and you're still at 470, 130 short of 600. Even if you get a bit more lucky than that, the amount of material you stated seems nowhere near a "comfortable" amount, unless you could somehow count for all RNG to provide max numbers by sheer luck... A couple of points:
The melt rate starts out much lower, and the range increases each week. The first week only takes ~40 Noman's Friend, but by mid March it takes up to 150. Even if you start in mid January, you can get to February losing an average of 150 NF. Once February starts, the melt rate increases dramatically, losing ~105 NF per week.
You're statistically better off Warming the Tears rather than giving them straight to the Noman. Warming them gets you, on average, 18 points of NF, while giving them directly gets you, on average, 12 NF.
You only need the Noman to last four or five weeks, depending on when you create it. If you create it in the middle of January, five weeks will take you to the time that Lilac shows up.
Going from mid January to mid February will use up, on average, ~360 points of NF. (This is based on last season's numbers; this season's might be different.) So, counting the 100 NF you start with, you only need to get ~260 more. Again, that's an average, so more to be safe. Plus we don't know if they're increasing the melting this season.
Even if you hit the max amount of melting in each range for those five weeks, you'd still only need 435 NF. 450 puts you over the top. So (based on last season), figure out how to get ~350 points of NF (after your original 100). Warming Tears nets you ~18 NF each, Pails net you 9 NF each. Get the supplies for either or both of them to reach 350.
OP's suggestion of 20 Pails and 15 Tears is a pretty good estimate. You could probably do it with 20 Pails and only 10 Tears (which would get you 360 NF, on average), but it's better to be safe than sorry.
Aardvark wrote:
- Do we expect this to keep getting more challenging by an order of magnitude every year? I currently have quite few Threnodies and not much material for Tears either, so should I just focus on grinding these exclusively because next year will likely double the requirements again, or is it hopeless to start planning this late into the year anyway? FB changes the melt rage (which alters the difficulty) based on criteria only they know. I believe at one point they said it changes depending on how many people are going for the Tattoo, succeeding, etc. So each year is kind of a surprise.
Sources:
All of the 2017 Noman data posted on this forum: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTeCX-nII7t7OUBdcoPu4i9rfIf_pwuNJJQoV-wyGIMUX9LNlJS7fypnfxquc7AZ3IDiV_Trk_e6y1Z/pubhtml?gid=711702425&single=true
Comparison of 2016 / 2017 data: https://imgur.com/ElV7qoB
~~~~~ edited by idyl on 9/29/2017
-- “Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est"
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 Waterpls Posts: 326
9/29/2017
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So, you need to draw "A presumptuous little opportunity" 8 times per Tear. For 15 Tears its 120 cards. And for conversion (from Strangling Willow Absinthe) you need 24.5 Church favours per Tear. For 15 tears its 367.5 Favours. For 3 mounths you need 5 Favourable Circumstance per day. Not sure how much it costs in actions, probably a lot even with 30+ BDR.
875 Bottle of Strangling Willow Absinthe per Tear. 13125 for 15 Tears. A Boxful of Intrigue reward is 35 Absinthe for 14 actions, so its 5250 Actions. Or ~45 days grind. edited by Waterpls on 9/29/2017
-- Long grinds: Heptagoat 100/180; Cider Done; Correspondence 21/21; Paramount 4/4.
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 Televangelist Posts: 109
9/29/2017
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Waterpls wrote:
So, you need to draw "A presumptuous little opportunity" 8 times per Tear. For 15 Tears its 120 cards. And for conversion (from Strangling Willow Absinthe) you need 24.5 Church favours per Tear. For 15 tears its 367.5 Favours. For 3 mounths you need 5 Favourable Circumstance per day. Not sure how much it costs in actions, probably a lot even with 30+ BDR.
875 Bottle of Strangling Willow Absinthe per Tear. 13125 for 15 Tears. A Boxful of Intrigue reward is 35 Absinthe for 14 actions, so its 5250 Actions. Or ~45 days grind. edited by Waterpls on 9/29/2017
If you're starting with zero tears at this late date, realistically your only option for making it happen is paying a substantial amount of money to run the Gallery of Serpents, which will (among many other rewards) produce about 4 tears per $20 of cash turned into fate.
(But also, your calculation for the number of favourable circumstances needed is wrong -- 3 months = 120 days = 1 favourable circumstance per day)
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 idyl Posts: 168
9/29/2017
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Waterpls wrote:
So, you need to draw "A presumptuous little opportunity" 8 times per Tear. For 15 Tears its 120 cards. And for conversion (from Strangling Willow Absinthe) you need 24.5 Church favours per Tear. For 15 tears its 367.5 Favours. For 3 mounths you need 5 Favourable Circumstance per day. Not sure how much it costs in actions, probably a lot even with 30+ BDR. Here's the math for grinding Favourable Circumstances at highest BDR: At 32/33 BDR, you can get to Notability 5 just through the Amanuensis card, so that's 9 actions (2 actions to call up the card and use it each time after drawing it the first time). Then you need 8 CP MW for the next level of N, which is ~5 actions using the tier 3 conversion. Then two more actions to call and use the Amanuensis card. Then say ~8 actions to get 12 CP of MW and two more to raise N to 7.
So ~26 actions to go from drawing your first Amanuensis card to Notability 7. But to save yourself from waiting for the Amanuensis card again (since you'd be at 0 N after cashing it in to Favourable Circumstances), you'd have to spend ~10 more actions to get to Notability 8, putting the total at 36 actions, plus one more to call up the final Amanuensis card. So 37 actions from start to finish to get yourself FC, meaning you can (fairly easily) grind one per day.
However, that's at 32+ BDR. At 30/31 BDR, a you'd only have to add a few more actions in total when raising MW for the next Notability level, probably around 4 more actions. So just over 40 actions to grind it up.
Also, I wouldn't expect people starting from zero to really be doing this, it being nearly October already. In the past people have spent much of the entire year gathering supplies for it.
~~~~~ edited by idyl on 9/29/2017
-- “Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est"
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 Harlocke Posts: 506
9/30/2017
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To realistically have a shot of grinding it in time for this year, what's the minimum number of tears/night whispers/threnodies you need to have already amassed?
-- I welcome social actions, and can visit your salon as an author.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Harlocke
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 Waterpls Posts: 326
9/30/2017
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Harlocke wrote:
To realistically have a shot of grinding it in time for this year, what's the minimum number of tears/night whispers/threnodies you need to have already amassed? 2/3 of the way, i guess. 10 Tears, 100+ Threnodies, 10+ Nightwispers. Slighly less if you can grind Threnodies in Foreign Office, Broken Giant with Velocipede Squad, have materials for Fidgeting. edited by Waterpls on 9/30/2017
-- Long grinds: Heptagoat 100/180; Cider Done; Correspondence 21/21; Paramount 4/4.
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 Televangelist Posts: 109
10/1/2017
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Waterpls wrote:
Harlocke wrote:
To realistically have a shot of grinding it in time for this year, what's the minimum number of tears/night whispers/threnodies you need to have already amassed? 2/3 of the way, i guess. 10 Tears, 100+ Threnodies, 10+ Nightwispers. Slighly less if you can grind Threnodies in Foreign Office, Broken Giant with Velocipede Squad, have materials for Fidgeting. edited by Waterpls on 9/30/2017
If your BDR is high, I think you can be behind that point and still be fine. Assuming you start your day off with a Rubbery Hound breeding, that's 21 days to get 100 threnodies, and assuming (conservatively) you produce a Tears every 2 weeks, you'll have 6 tears more than you do right now by the time you're using them -- assuming no use of fate for Gallery of Serpents. Night Whispers are pretty trivial from Fidgeting Writer.
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 Televangelist Posts: 109
10/1/2017
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Right, and if you do the 39 actions in Flute Street in a single go, first thing in the morning when you have 39/40 actions and 5 cards in your deck, you can even get a nice 5 bonus cards from the deck doubling.
By the way, something that I forgot to mention in the OP but is super relevant here:
Society favours are your friend for the Tears grind. You can gain them from the Society card, from Park and Palace, from the Young Stags, from A Visit with the Wry Functionary, from Shepherding Souls, from the Clay Sedan, and probably a couple of others I'm forgetting... and each one gives you on average 5 points of MW when you redeem them with the Slowcake's Amanuensis card. You can redeem all the favours with a single draw of the card (it loops back to the card, it doesn't consume the card), and then at Notability 5+ you can top it off with a Say Nothing for even more MW. This makes hitting Notability 6 and 7 very simple.
I prefer to just go to Notability 7, then focus on Sinning Jenny's (w/ a Church Favour draw at the end) to speed up drawing the card for Notability 1 again.
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 Televangelist Posts: 109
10/1/2017
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(Also, just more generally, since you described Flute Street as tedious -- by far the best way to use Flute Street for anything, whether it's Dire Reflections or Rubbery Hounds, is 'once per day' in a single go rather than sitting down there for ages. It's an extra 15 actions for the travel there and back, but the additional card draw will totally make up for that, and that way you're not feeling 'stuck' down there.
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 Reused NPC Posts: 259
10/6/2017
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Dudebro Pyro wrote:
Is upconverting from Absinthe really the best way to get Cellars? I always thought the side-streets option worked out cheaper.
Also, I'd appreciate a tip on which ending for the Velocipede Squad I should take, as I'm going to finally buy it soon. If you're looking for Broken Giant, you'll want to go with the Riot in Watchmaker's Hill (Shops are burning!). The VS shamelessly pilfer it from a wine store.
-- ReusedNPC, a d__ned lunatic.
Edmund Viric, a rather dreamy sort.
"I won't stay long, I shan't stay long! Tell me a secret." --the Baldomerian
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 genesis Posts: 924
9/28/2017
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Personally, last year I found that Bazaar Tears are harder to get and less reliable to use. So I used *only* the pails and it worked out pretty well for me. But obviously this year thing might be different.
The only ES I am aware of that directly gives Tears is the end-of-season wrap up for the Season of Ruins. So you'd need to pay for 3 stories every time you want to get some tears.
-- http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/mikey_thinkin
Keeping track of incomplete content and loose ends in Fallen London
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 Televangelist Posts: 109
9/28/2017
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Good to know about Velocipede Squad! Like a lot of folks I imagine, I'm locked out of that carousel. But yes, that would save a *lot* of Church favours.
Somnolent Hyaena is good thinking as well, I'll give that a go...
(Debating the Nature of Primordial Shrieks would be more like 2.1 plaques per action, right? Assuming Aeolian Screams count as 5 plaques? or less?)
(It's also nice that you can simply pay to get the needed honey at the Bazaar, speeding up the process if you're on a tight time schedule) edited by Televangelist on 9/28/2017
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 Televangelist Posts: 109
9/28/2017
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Okay, tried out the Flute Street Once Per Day In The Morning approach. It works well! Went in with 40 actions and 5 cards in my deck, came out with 1 action, 10 cards, and...
...a direful reflection, because I forgot that you needed 100 candles to breed the thing. Ah well, one step closer to my Parabolan Base Camp I suppose. But it did grant the 5 bonus cards for moving to/from a location with a special deck, so that's nice! edited by Televangelist on 9/28/2017
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 Televangelist Posts: 109
9/27/2017
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Hmm, writing this out has actually made me think that I should experiment with one carousel of Flute Street in the morning to breed the Rubbery Hound. Waiting until I've got 39 actions and 5 cards in hand, doing the Flute Street carousel in one go, and getting that sweet 5 card boost plus a Hound, which I'd then breed throughout the day...
Anything more than once per day would be impractical, though, since you're unlikely to have 39 actions in your candle.
While this would mean fewer actions for Finishing School and thus less card draw/favours, it would dramatically reduce my reliance on Urchins favours (every 5 Storm Threnodies from Flute Street is 3.5 Urchins favours I don't need) so probably still a win overall. edited by Televangelist on 9/27/2017
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