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For the discussion of our Sunless Skies, released January 2019.

Starting locomotive WAY too fast? Messages in this topic - RSS

Atrocity Dancer
Atrocity Dancer
Posts: 13

8/30/2017
While the painful slowness of the ship in Sunless Sea was a certain and well-acknowledged problem, it had a very specific advantage: your ship's movement was as precise as you want it to be. The speed switching was a godsend, allowing for very interesting tactical maneuvers (or rather, exploiting the mobs' AI wink)
Now with the fastest Sunless Sea speed being the basic one in Sunless Skies, this feature is needed desperately. It's difficult to dock to ports and to control your ship around land, with you bumping basically constantly if you're used to SSea controls. I fear to imagine how combat would feel. I fear even more to imagine how fast would my locomotive crash if I were to traverse terrain akin to those chunks of ice in SSea's far north.
Perhaps speed controls could be something upgrade-able and purchase-able? Like a secondary Bridge slot or an all-new Steer slot, maybe? It does give a lot of tactical advantage if you know how to use it correctly. From no speed options to something like 5 different speeds for both forth and back.
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Nanako
Nanako
Posts: 536

8/30/2017
Personally i'd disagree with the asessment that it's too fast. Honestly it feels pretty slow outside of ports

The handling is a thing. But it's not a bad thing. Do remember that we're in space now, not on the water. The train handles like a spaceship. Meaning there's no gravity, almost no friction, and thus very little to stop it from continuing forever in one direction. I consider this a good thing and an authentic part of the experience.

Certainly, it makes it difficult to dock and control. But i think thats also good. Handling it correctly is a skill. In order to control your direction, you have to not only thrust in that direction, but also counterthrust to the way you're currently headed to cancel your existing velocity. It's something to learn and improve upon as a player

However, i definitely agree with you on the last point. This needs to be upgradeable. I noticed there was a bridge slot. If i had my way, we'd have several upgrade slots - one for each set of thrusters. I really love upgrades in general, and purchasing new pieces of equipment is great for adding to the feel of progression

Probably there will be some steering things for the bridge slot, though i'd rather see more slots than we have at the moment. I did notice though, the seven Prospect slots below the ship. Hopefully they'll be for installing various enhancements. Like, perhaps - enhanced thrusters
edited by Nanako on 8/30/2017

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Sunless Skies needs engine and speed control mechanics. Have a look at my design proposal for implementing it

http://community.failbettergames.com/topic25687-a-design-for-engines.aspx
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Atrocity Dancer
Atrocity Dancer
Posts: 13

8/30/2017
I think you are confusing steering and speed here. Yes, steering does feel very space-y, and personally, I love it, although there certainly should be upgrades to that too. But learning not to bump into everything does not feel very... rewarding. I mean, yes, setting-wise, the logic is understandable, like you explained. But does it any good game-design-wise? It isn't punishing in a pleasant, roguelike-kind of way, it's just weird controls.
Or maybe I'm complaining because I'm way too used to SSea's controls. Who knows. :P
edited by Atrocity Dancer on 8/30/2017
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Nanako
Nanako
Posts: 536

8/30/2017
well as far as bumping goes. although i dont have issues with controls, i do have some with graphics.

In SSea we had a light at the prow which cast a cone, or a shadow if it hit something solid. This was especially important under the zee where your floating zubmarine could zail over some things and not others

Here we have the same problem - some thigns are solid and will hurt you, while some can be flown over or under. There's no apparent way to tell which is which, since we have no light to cast shadows (nor sufficient darkness to use one)

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Sunless Skies needs engine and speed control mechanics. Have a look at my design proposal for implementing it

http://community.failbettergames.com/topic25687-a-design-for-engines.aspx
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Atrocity Dancer
Atrocity Dancer
Posts: 13

8/30/2017
Yeah, that should be more obvious. Art for the objects underneath you needs to be more distinct from those which you can bump into.
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Ludovide
Ludovide
Posts: 33

8/30/2017
I agree that the prow light made it easier to see what you could hit (maybe they can outline what is hittable in a thin black line?). I do like the steering but I wish it was less sensitive and I would tone down the speed just a little. I wouldn't mind it as much if you could press a button to dock like in SSea, the docking now is a cool idea but it's hard to slow down. Sometimes I zail right through a port without being able to interact with the storylets and I have to turn around and try again.
edited by Ludovide on 8/30/2017
edited by Ludovide on 8/30/2017

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Check out my character, they're open to
most social actions and I'm really into roleplaying: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Ludovide
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sneferu
sneferu
Posts: 1

8/30/2017
I find the controls and speed surprisingly satisfying compared to Sunless Sea. The only thing it needs tweaking IMO is the strafe speed. As it is now it feels too powerful and makes the Locomotive more difficult to control than it should.
edited by sneferu on 8/30/2017
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Nanako
Nanako
Posts: 536

8/30/2017
I agree with sneferu, i'm actually playing around with this just now.

Although forward/reverse and turning use normal thrusters, it seems that the strafing port/starboard use a burst thruster instead, which does a jump with a cooldown. I'm not a fan of this personally

I'd like to see strafing treated like the other thrusters - hold it down to move.
And if we do need a burst thruster for quick dodges, make it done with a doubletap instead of a single press

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Sunless Skies needs engine and speed control mechanics. Have a look at my design proposal for implementing it

http://community.failbettergames.com/topic25687-a-design-for-engines.aspx
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Kindelwyrm
Kindelwyrm
Posts: 21

8/31/2017
I wouldn't slow it down too much. It is fairly unwieldy in combat, but almost impossible to catch something you're chasing (Reach Marauder, Tackity Scout - which I don't recommend. Ouch).

So it's hard to say, honestly. I was often irritated with how slow my starter ship was on Sunless Sea, and would occasionally tab out to do something else while traversing a long stretch of zee.

--
Alison Wright - An Occasionally Ridiculous Artist
Rosetta Byrd - The Fatally Inquisitive Enquirer

A Drawing Room - Fallen London fan art blog. The misadventures of Alison "Alice" Wright in trying to get portraits of the Masters.
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Nanako
Nanako
Posts: 536

8/31/2017
Kindelwyrm wrote:

So it's hard to say, honestly. I was often irritated with how slow my starter ship was on Sunless Sea, and would occasionally tab out to do something else while traversing a long stretch of zee.


Which, incidentally, you can't do anymore. The game pauses itself when you tab out

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Sunless Skies needs engine and speed control mechanics. Have a look at my design proposal for implementing it

http://community.failbettergames.com/topic25687-a-design-for-engines.aspx
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vulchor
vulchor
Posts: 23

8/31/2017
Gotta say that I think the strafe being implemented the way it is works well in tandem with a relatively (compared to S'Seas) fast cruising speed for avoiding crashes. I use it quite a bit so I can maintain my velocity and not hit objects, since fuel is precious.
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FailbetterFuzz
FailbetterFuzz
Administrator
Posts: 225

9/15/2017
A goldmine of feedback here Ladies and Gentlemen. It's all gone into my feedback spreadsheet. Thank you very much.
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MidnightVoyager
MidnightVoyager
Posts: 821

9/15/2017
I agree. The ship feels super fast and light as a balloon. I was one of the people wishing for a faster, more maneuverable experience in Sunless Sea, I'll note. One without the other feels like a bit of a problem.

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Midnight Voyager - A blood-cousin to predators. Collector of beasts. Affably mad.
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