Nanako
Posts: 536
8/30/2017
|
as much an important part as any other, game balance is important for keeping a game interesting.
In my first couple hours i'm finding some issues. Chief among them is poverty.
Compared to sunless sea, the costs of fuel and supplies have doubled, but the return on port reports, at least what ive seen so far, seems about the same. Quest rewards seem punishingly low - i only made a total of 16g for picking up a filmmaker from hybras. But it cost me 180g of fuel and supplies to find the place and return. At this rate i'm headed for death by starvation within the next half hour 
The change - advertised in the opening tutorial - to make supply consumption no longer vary with the number of crew you have, does not seem like a good one. It deprives me of the ability to run with a skeleton crew when times are tough. And, when starvation sets in and the crew start killing or eating each other - it doesn't decrease the number of mouths to feed
Requiring some cost in supplies to feed the scouting bat is an interesting mechanic - i do actually like it in theory. But at this early point in the game when every scrap of food is precious, the vain attempts to scout for ports where i might find free stuff, are only serving to hasten our starvation
When i limped into the lush and verdant port of hybras, i was hoping for at least some complimentary food from the mayor. Storylets did indeed indicate a free meal, but my crew's hunger didnt actually change, and we limped back out still on the verge of starvation
Now ive managed to crawl into a port full of artists begging me for money, while all i can think about is where to find the next meal as a third of my crew have already died.
This is pretty hard
--
Sunless Skies needs engine and speed control mechanics. Have a look at my design proposal for implementing it
http://community.failbettergames.com/topic25687-a-design-for-engines.aspx
|
|
|
+11
link
|
Atrocity Dancer
Posts: 13
8/30/2017
|
The crew management was great. Why remove it? There were some pretty cool opportunities to fiddle with it if you like (looking at WE ARE CLAY here), but it never was something that you HAVE to do - just a small mechanic that you can use if you want to optimize everything. Kinda leaves less room to wiggle with your fuel/supplies & cargo management and to reward those seeking to optimize. I wonder if they removed the weight mechanics too? That 300 weight ship was the d__n best one.
edited by Atrocity Dancer on 8/30/2017
|
|
|
+7
link
|
Nanako
Posts: 536
8/30/2017
|
Another example of the quest rewards being too low
http://i.imgur.com/L2ncbMB.png
10 sovereigns is kind of insulting especially considering the nature of the Significant Favor i did for him. For a frame of reference, a unit of fuel costs 20, and a unit of supplies costs 40. This isnt even enough to put dinner on the table tonight, my crew have already turned to cannibalism out of starvation
Could this just be a typo?
In sunless sea, a typical easy quest like this would reward 100 echoes. Did someone just forget a zero on the end of all these quest rewards?
edited by Nanako on 8/30/2017
--
Sunless Skies needs engine and speed control mechanics. Have a look at my design proposal for implementing it
http://community.failbettergames.com/topic25687-a-design-for-engines.aspx
|
|
|
+7
link
|
Nanako
Posts: 536
8/31/2017
|
The harshness of this economy is forcing me to view everything through a mechanical lens.
That 4 damage hit i just took from a sky monster? It cost me 20 gold. The supplies i got from harvesting its corpse is worth 40
20g and fuel i get from a port report? That's 40g total. Its a loss when you consider the 60g of fuel and supplies it cost me to get there and back.
Everyone i meet, regardless of allegiance, is getting blown out of the sky and looted for valueables. Being ethical is too expensive
I thought about selling my guns to raise money, but the occasional profit they bring in makes them barely worth keeping. The armor too. If i cut it really close to the wire, and wait until the engine is leaking coal before i go for repairs, then the bronzewood armor plating, plus the 160g full repair option, allows me to purchase repairs at 4.44g per hull point, instead of 5g
The speculative expedition I took in a random direction in hopes of finding a new port was just throwing 60g in a hole, no profit. Every second the train moves, it's burning money. If its not moving towards profit i will die
I feel like a ferengi. Or like some sort of corporate bureaucrat. Every single aspect of the game has been reduced to a financial transaction. Having fun costs money, and there's no room for it in the budget.
There is a certain enjoyment in this efficiency and minmaxing, but its shifting focus away from the story and narrative aspects of the game. I can't just buy a round of drinks in the pub, or invest in scholarly expeditions or artistic architecture. Anything that doesn't contribute to finances has to be ignored
edited by Nanako on 8/31/2017
edited by Nanako on 8/31/2017
--
Sunless Skies needs engine and speed control mechanics. Have a look at my design proposal for implementing it
http://community.failbettergames.com/topic25687-a-design-for-engines.aspx
|
|
|
+5
link
|
tbeaz161
Posts: 29
9/2/2017
|
Oh I forgot to add that I am also extremely disappointed with the removal of crew management. I hope this is just temporary and not at all planned to stay. It was nice to have to worry about feeding a larger ship or potentially finding yourself hampered by major losses. As it is right now you might as well just remove the whole mechanic. I don't see the need to dumb it down and I think it really took away a fun aspect of the game.
|
|
|
+4
link
|
Atrocity Dancer
Posts: 13
8/30/2017
|
Quest rewards feel like someone forgot to put an extra zero in, really
|
|
|
+4
link
|
Jimmius
Posts: 31
9/5/2017
|
the only real problem I have with the game atm is the economy and cargo capacity. Fuel doesnt feel like it lasts much longer than in SSea, but the price is doubled, the distances to travel are a lot longer, and you can carry 1/4 of the stuff before.
This leads to the game losing some of the epic sense of exploration, in favour of being very timid, and having to game the system (ie the quest that gives 800) in order to actually do anything. It just seems incredibly punishing to new players, even compared to SSea.
|
|
|
+4
link
|
Nanako
Posts: 536
8/30/2017
|
Atrocity Dancer wrote:
Quest rewards feel like someone forgot to put an extra zero in, really
This was, unfortunately, my greatest fear with the early access. Sunless sea had the same problem initially - before port reports were added, the game was so cripplingly hard that nobody could survive long enough to experience much of the content.
Here, port reports are in from the start. But if anything the initial balance problems feel worse. hopefully things will be ironed out soon
--
Sunless Skies needs engine and speed control mechanics. Have a look at my design proposal for implementing it
http://community.failbettergames.com/topic25687-a-design-for-engines.aspx
|
|
|
+3
link
|
Atrocity Dancer
Posts: 13
8/30/2017
|
No, I meant that quite literally. I would submit that as a bug. It really looks like that they forgot to add extra zeroes to the rewards O_o
|
|
|
+2
link
|
Nanako
Posts: 536
8/30/2017
|
Well ive just brought the pernickety factor to hybras and, while not wishing to spoil anything, i'll say that i really ought to be able to raid the colony for food at this point. Or even pick mushrooms from the marshes. Anything for a meal ahghhg
Even current circumstances aside, hybras is a green and pleasant land, not unlike the mangrove swamps of the neath. There really should be some way to harvest free food from the area
My original crew of 11 is down to 2, they've not seen a scrap of real food in weeks, they just keep eating each other to stay alive, as their numbers dwindle. Game over is rapidly approaching ;-;
The damned factor didnt even pay for my expenses in transporting him. Does he have no idea what fuel and supplies cost out here?
edited by Nanako on 8/30/2017
--
Sunless Skies needs engine and speed control mechanics. Have a look at my design proposal for implementing it
http://community.failbettergames.com/topic25687-a-design-for-engines.aspx
|
|
|
+2
link
|
Nanako
Posts: 536
8/30/2017
|
aaand i'm dead
I ate the last member of my crew
http://i.imgur.com/t35x0US.jpg
edited by Nanako on 8/30/2017
--
Sunless Skies needs engine and speed control mechanics. Have a look at my design proposal for implementing it
http://community.failbettergames.com/topic25687-a-design-for-engines.aspx
|
|
|
+2
link
|
Nanako
Posts: 536
8/30/2017
|
Well i started a new game, things are going better since i beelined to port prosper.
I'm winning quite a lot of train battles, though it feels like the enemy isnt trying. I've killed several of those wierd rebel colonists and some bandits through the simple strategy of shooting them in the back.
For some reason they often just dont react when shot, and continue on their way, ignoring me while i plink away at their rear. Although AI ships seem to be faster than me, due to the power of weapons i mentioned earlier, i'm still able to chase them down and kill them with four careful shots from my Cotterell & Hathersage "Jerusalem"
AI ships should probably react a bit faster, or stop trying to run away when its clear they can't outrun boolet
--
Sunless Skies needs engine and speed control mechanics. Have a look at my design proposal for implementing it
http://community.failbettergames.com/topic25687-a-design-for-engines.aspx
|
|
|
+2
link
|
illuminati swag (Benthic)
Posts: 137
9/1/2017
|
Unlocking Mme. Lumiere's shop helps, a *lot*, with getting money. So much so, honestly, that it's kind of ridiculous. Hopefully as more content is added, the early game will get easier.
|
|
|
+2
link
|
Happy Londoner
Posts: 74
9/1/2017
|
Nanako wrote:
Everyone i meet, regardless of allegiance, is getting blown out of the sky and looted for valueables
Try meeting Parchment-Wrapped Horrors - you will like it. They live around the Nature Reserve and the Circus and they drop 2 brozewood. Killing them pays off. Beware though: they shoot quick. But they think too much between the shots and at such moments they are easy targets. My tactic was: shoot - wait for their shot - strafe - repeat the cycle.
--
My profile: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Happy~Londoner
|
|
|
+1
link
|
Nanako
Posts: 536
9/2/2017
|
Bringing research samples to the nature reserve:
https://i.imgur.com/kcdAVGD.png
This reward absolutely does not come close to the cost of retrieving that sample, nevermind the even higher cost of coming out here to deliver it. No less than 200 guineas would be barely adequate. This is a massive loss, and makes me not want to help these people any farther
--
Sunless Skies needs engine and speed control mechanics. Have a look at my design proposal for implementing it
http://community.failbettergames.com/topic25687-a-design-for-engines.aspx
|
|
|
+1
link
|
tbeaz161
Posts: 29
9/2/2017
|
Yeah rewards definitely need to be balanced more right now. I was surprised with the very large amount from the Clocktower! Then there are others you have said that are insultingly low. If I had not done the clock quest first I definitley wouldn't have survived long enough to die of terror. Which is not the way it should be.
On the subject of terror: there doesn't seem to be any really great ways of managing it right now. As the best way to make money is generally to go out for longer journeys to hit multiple ports I find this really puts it at odd with the other systems until some more balancing is done. Also what happened to the circular counter? it was very useful for gauging how dangerous your position is terrorwise and where the safer routes to take were.
As for combat I also agree and will echo something I read on the steam forums that really struck true as how things are right now, it was something along the lines of: There are 3 combat types right now 1. The enemy strafes around with crazy mechanical position and destroys you. 2. They speed on by and there's no way you can catch them 3. They derp around buggily or at least rather stupidly and you totally destroy them from the side before they can do anything or they might be so bugged they can't even turn to face you.
|
|
|
+1
link
|
Sonin Bale
Posts: 1
9/3/2017
|
I think the 'recurring condition' point is covered in the 'Known Issues':
You can reduce Condition at Magdalene’s more than once but the quality requirements are currently hidden. To reduce Condition again you’ll need the following qualities:
- Condition 2 (minimum)
- Moment of Inspiration 1 (number required increases each time you reduce Condition)
- Unlicencsed Chart 1 (number required increases each time you reduce Condition)
|
|
|
+1
link
|
FeralJim
Posts: 9
9/4/2017
|
You can pick up two unlicensed charts if you choose to help ferry a certain someone away from Port Carillon
|
|
|
+1
link
|
YGWAH
Posts: 6
9/4/2017
|
Three hours and an half into the game, more like randomly exploring and testing features than going deep in the storylines they've released: here's my penny on this EA.
There's a minor thing to be fixed, a few complaints and some lore questions that are yet spinning in my mind; in order:
1. From the second time that you open the chart, the sound effect will be extremely loud; I consider this a bug since the first time opening the chart every playthrough it's way more quiet.
2. The font for the major text is, personally, really clunky and I hope it will get fixed later; also, I can't help but feel the storyline windows to be empty, maybe 'cause they're way larger than the Sea ones.
3. The economy is, as Nanako said, to the point of being unsustainable on a long run: I remember previous Kickstarter articles about a storage system for each port to better manage commerce and avoid the "you can't play fast till you buy the Cargo Ship" situation - which everyone has an habit for but seems rather silly to me - that when implemented will probably make things more straightforward.
3bis. The starting ship cargo is so small, compared to the Sea one, it's actually difficult to do more than a thing at once; considering the actual game state the thing might seem way worse to me than it will be in the complete version, since it forces boredom when you need to travel to distant ports without a chance to stop along the road for more missions.
4. On the lore side: since I'm intuitively thinking of the four circular regions as Judgement's (or previously Judgement's) domains, where is the Reach Judgement? Is New Winchester able to emanate some kind of power or the Judgement power in Skies is significantly less than what Sea and FL let us guess?
5. Do you think there will be ports or any content outside of the main regions, since we can safely go out of them and brave the unknown space? It would be neat, maybe in a future DLC akin to Zubmarine.
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Yawyig~Yam
"I came from a place that was." Dream-hunter.
Found in gant, lost in viric.
|
|
|
+1
link
|
Nanako
Posts: 536
8/31/2017
|
now that ive learned to abuse the strafe/dodge boost thrutster, things are getting even easier. 2-3 good shotgun hits to take down a marauder ship, it couldnt even turn sufficiently to land a hit on me
--
Sunless Skies needs engine and speed control mechanics. Have a look at my design proposal for implementing it
http://community.failbettergames.com/topic25687-a-design-for-engines.aspx
|
|
|
+1
link
|