Koenig
Posts: 466
8/16/2017
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I've been trying various things to grind out making waves to increase my notability when the time arises, however outside of stockpiling the best BDR gear I can and doing extensive cross-item-conversions, I have come up short in regards to an effective way to raise making waves consistently.
Does anyone have any suggestions to aid me in my efforts?
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Koenig: Extraordinary. Invisible. Shattering. Legendary.
   
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phryne
Posts: 1351
8/16/2017
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To Make Waves, you need the Rooftop Shack and the Cottage by the Observatory plus lots and lots of Tales of Terror!!
convert Tales of Terror to Compromising Docs or Extraordinary Implications: up to 10 CP of MW
convert Extraordinary Implications to Uncanny Incunabula: 5-29 CP!
You can then use the Incunabula to manufacture Searing Enigmas at the University, and use the Engimas for up to 65 CP on the cottage card!
convert Compromising Docs to Stolen Kisses: 2 CP, and Kisses to Favours in High Places 12-20 CP!
Those Favours you can then use for up to 30 CP on the Rooftop Shack's card.
also useful:
convert Romantic Notions to Visions of the Surface: 2 CP; Visions to either Touching Love Stories or Mysteries of the Elder Continent: up to 10 CP.
convert Incendiary Gossip to either Memories of Distant Shores or Identities Uncovered: up to 10 CP.
convert Zee-Ztories to Strangling Willow Absinthe: up to 10 CP
also, this is a handy thread.
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Accounts: Bag a Legend • Light Fingers • Heart's Desire • Nemesis • no ambition
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writer ― Favours & Renown Guide
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Màiread
Posts: 385
8/16/2017
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Side conversions are I believe the most action efficient way of generating waves (each loop is 13 actions and gives ~20 CP on average, a max of 38 CP per loop), not least because there's no gathering materials, no connection requirements and no time wasted dealing with menaces (ToT conversion gives nightmares). You can do an absolute max of 77 loops per week (average of 1540 CP, max 2926), which depending on your BDR will not be enough for high levels. At that point you can do as Kaijyuu suggested - use the spare time in your week (you'll reach a point where you can't possibly get enough MW for your next level before TTH comes) to convert a large stash of 50p items to Visions, Scraps, Tales or Ztories (I like to do visions since the next mw granting conversion is only two steps away). This allows you to generate enough MW in a burst without wasting any actions before TTH comes.
Private dinners are also a really good source of waves (not as good as they were, but still), and they're guaranteed. My feeling is that the most efficient method is to combine side conversions (loops or if you have/can gather a large number of items in burst mode) with boosts from your orphanage (generally inviting a correspondent/crooked-cross gives the best value) and private dinners.
edited by Màiread on 8/16/2017
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Màiread - Correspondent, composer, lover of cats. Can probably bake you a d__n fine cake.
Useful Links: Traveller's Friend (Progress Tracker & Notability Calculator) | phryne's Guide to Favours & Renown |
Peggy the Nowoman lived to see the Feast. Thank you for the memories, Snow Lady.
I'm happy to accept most social actions except for lethal sparring and loitering suspiciously. Please challenge my plant! Currently not accepting calling cards.
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dov
Posts: 2580
8/16/2017
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Aniline wrote:
DonaghyLogan wrote:
Does this "per action" MW ratio include the actions it takes to acquire the items you're side-converting?
No, but sideconversions are 50:51 and cost nothing except actions, so after a cycle of 13 conversions you end up with the same stack of 50 items you started with plus 1 more of each.
Exactly. You only need to gather 50 of *any* tier 3 item, *once*.
After a few rounds, your pile of these items will grow and grow (50:51 conversion), and you'll be able to use "Try Again" to really speed things up. Once you have a lot, you can stack them to those items which give MW in the side-conversion so that the next conversion run starts with a boost of MW (5.5 CP per action).
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Artful
Posts: 48
8/17/2017
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Crazy. I have hustled pretty hard some weeks to get the crazy number of waves needed for higher Notability scores.
I consider myself a pretty savvy player (cider and goats as rewards of meticulous effort, Courier's Foot print, etc.) Never noticed this cycle. Going to make Paramount Pressence much less stressful.
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A Penultimate Paramount Presence waiting for the ability to overcap stats before crossing the threshold.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Artful
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Aniline
Posts: 144
8/16/2017
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DonaghyLogan wrote:
Does this "per action" MW ratio include the actions it takes to acquire the items you're side-converting?
No, but sideconversions are 50:51 and cost nothing except actions, so after a cycle of 13 conversions you end up with the same stack of 50 items you started with plus 1 more of each.
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Melantha Prescott, the Suspicious Statistician. "3% failure chances crop up nine times out of ten."
Francesca Ayers-Kernighan, bat-hunter, cat-whisperer
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dov
Posts: 2580
8/16/2017
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DonaghyLogan wrote:
If you're looking for a repeatable grind, I like to use "The Life of the Mind" in the Empress' Court for all my spare actions
This is not a good option. This only provides 1 CP of MW per action.
Side-converting tier 3 items gives on average more than 1.5 CP of MW per action.
(The Conversion Helper Chrome extension makes this much easier)
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DonaghyLogan
Posts: 205
8/16/2017
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I've been running into similar problems. Ventures like an Orphanage, Salon, and Short Stories are helpful for storing qualities over multiple weeks that can be converted into MW. BDR gear is always good - if you haven't already and you're able, I'd suggest spending some Fate on the Theological Husbandry set, to get the wonderfully BDR'd Bifurcated Owl. Attending parties whenever you get the card is useful. If you're looking for a repeatable grind, I like to use "The Life of the Mind" in the Empress' Court for all my spare actions when grinding Notability, as I have been of late. Social actions like Private Suppers and Coffee at Caligula's are good, too - feel free to invite me to either, as I'm also grinding Notability (in my case, in pursuit of the elusive Courier's Footprint). If you are of one of a number of professions, you can also get some Making Waves (alongside other rewards) by accepting invitations from other players' Salons and Orphanages. As a Correspondent, I greatly enjoy getting an Urchins Favour, 15 Correspondence Plaques, and some MW out of teaching orphans.
edited by DonaghyLogan on 8/16/2017
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Amalgamate
Posts: 435
8/17/2017
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If you go to the wiki for any of those items, the conversion cycle is at the top, and it marks which one of them give Making Waves (a random number of MW from 1-10 or 1-8 depending on which conversion). http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/Tale_of_Terror!!
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Social invitations of all kinds welcome, especially games of chess and deadly sparring!
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Siankan
Posts: 1048
8/17/2017
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dov wrote:
Exactly. You only need to gather 50 of *any* tier 3 item, *once*.
After a few rounds, your pile of these items will grow and grow (50:51 conversion), and you'll be able to use "Try Again" to really speed things up. Once you have a lot, you can stack them to those items which give MW in the side-conversion so that the next conversion run starts with a boost of MW (5.5 CP per action).
I assume you mean 5.5 CP per profitable conversion, which (since they generally grant 1-10 CP) is a reasonable estimate. However, only every third conversion, give or take, is profitable. You have 13 actions in the loop, four of which are profitable (at, if we use 5.5, 22 total CP). That means that taking the entire loop grants something more like 1.69 CP/action. It works, if you've got limited resources and unlimited actions, but the full loop is not shockingly profitable.
If you have stock, however, you can improve the rate considerably. It only takes 9 actions to get that 22 CP if you start at Visions; the remaining four actions just get your items back to start across a conversion desert. If you've got enough items stockpiled that you can simply let your Absinthe stocks built up, you'll get your Waves at 2.44 CP/action. You can then push the stockpile across the desert to Visions after you've achieved your Notability goal.
Visions are especially useful because creating them from Romantic Notions gives you 3 CP for that conversion, and converting 500 Notions at once gives you enough Visions for two cycles. (500 Notions to 100 Absinthe is 47 CP in 19 actions, or 2.47 CP/action.) Thus, even if you run out of fuel, up-converting still gets you some profit.
Finally, if you're willing to shunt items off the cycle, upconverting Tales of Terror to Extraordinary Implications is even more profitable. It has a success/failure of 10/5 CP, so your average is 7.5 CP. Moreover, a rare success gains you not only a whopping 30 CP, but also two Favours in High Places. Even leaving out the rare success, that's still 18.5 CP in 6 actions, or 3.08 CP/action.
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Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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genesis
Posts: 924
8/19/2017
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geremy wrote:
Does anyone know the "Engaged in a Scheme: a Salon" cost of inviting the Captivating Princess to your salon? I know you need to have it a level 20 just to unlock her option...
It's hard to know exactly because it's a large random amount that is hard to gather precise data on as it's Fate locked. But in my experience it's enough to wipe your scheme entirely if it's 20-23 levels (but as I said it's not guaranteed so you might get lucky). Higher than that and, so far, some scheme points remained.
edited by genesis on 8/19/2017
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Keeping track of incomplete content and loose ends in Fallen London
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phryne
Posts: 1351
8/19/2017
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@geremy:
Here's my result from the one time I played that option: http://imgur.com/a/onMsp
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Accounts: Bag a Legend • Light Fingers • Heart's Desire • Nemesis • no ambition
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writer ― Favours & Renown Guide
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Ben
Posts: 657
8/20/2017
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Let me suggest that there is a better way.
Making waves stops being the best way to get noticed, even with maxed BDR, long before 15.
I propose that "weddings in name only" are the best path.
Two people, working together to get the least expensive wedding that still comes with a notability point.
You two work together, you cash in together, you get one point each without making waves needed, then you divorce, and then you do it again.
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The wind has no destination.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/IcountFrom0
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Siankan
Posts: 1048
8/20/2017
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Ben wrote:
Let me suggest that there is a better way.
That way is only better if A) the players are entirely unconcerned with the role-playing implications, or B) the characters are cynically unconcerned with making and breaking vows thrice a week. Those strictures preclude that path for much (I suspect most) of the player base.
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Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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Ben
Posts: 657
8/21/2017
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Siankan wrote:
Ben wrote:
Let me suggest that there is a better way.
That way is only better if A) the players are entirely unconcerned with the role-playing implications, or B) the characters are cynically unconcerned with making and breaking vows thrice a week. Those strictures preclude that path for much (I suspect most) of the player base.
*points to a certain number of candles*
Some of us are used to doing strange things with vows.
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karsus
Posts: 26
8/25/2017
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I did a bit of analysis today on Cost/Efficiency in making waves (on a path to paramount and got bored at work  )
Cost and action Breakdowns below, assume averages for Tier 3 conversations and a cost of 1.64 Echo per action. For Favor’s creation (needed for Scheme) I assumed a 50%/50% split between using the Singer (which is amazing) or the specific Bohemian or Society card (which is somewhat expensive).
Item Conversions:
When looking at Item conversions a complete loop (13 actions) will net you about 21 MW or 1.62 MW/Action at a cost of 1.14 Echo per action in opportunity cost (1 action = 1.64 echo in value, conversions give 0.5 echo’s + 1.62 MW per action) – that translates to a cost of 0.71 Echo’s per MW.
With a High BDR, only 10+ Notability will be annoying (@ 26 BDR lvl 10 needs 420 MW and lvl 15 is 1170 MW after TTH), so you can spend some time while traversing levels 1-9 to convert your Tier 3 items into Visions. Visions to Memory’s of a Distant Shore is only 3 actions in which two of them pay out MW (1-10 or average of 5.5 MW), that gives an return of 3.67 MW per action and an opportunity cost of 0.31 Echo’s per MW.
This is good for a quick run at higher levels of Notability (5,000 Visions + 300 Actions = ~1,110 MW = about enough to move from 14 to 15 Notability at high levels of BDR); but it does put you out of position for the following week.
The Cycle from Memories of a distant Shore back to Visions is only a return of ~1 MW per action and a cost of 1.14 Echo’s per MW. Getting those same 5,000 Tier 3’s back to Visions will take 1,000 Actions so plan ahead when doing mass item conversions for higher tiers of Notability.
Salon’s
Salon’s are a bit trickery as you need to build up Scheme first (usually over multiple weeks) prior to using it. Due to the RNG of drawing the cards you need this is an opportunistic approach which takes planning to really pay off.
Scheme is earned through Bohemian or Society Favor + items. An easy and efficient way to earn favor in these is “Drop in for a Chat” on the Sardonic Music-Hall Singer Visit, earning 1 of each favor + Persuasive *1.5 in Whispered hints (I used a 200 Persuasive for calculations below).
The other method is the Faction Cards which only grant 1 Favor and Cost 0.5 Echo’s in items + the 1.64 Echo in opportunity cost to use the action. In calculations below I assumed an equal split between these two methods. This gives an average Favor gain of 0.02 echo’s per favor (Singer gets you 3 Echos in Hints but costs half an action per favor = 2.18 Echo gain|| Faction Card costs 0.5 Echo’s in stuff + 1.64 echo for the action = 2.14 Echo Loss)
Wise and Wicked = 11 Echo’s in materials + 0.06 Echo gain from Favors = 10.94 Echo Cost for an average of 6.5 Scheme or a cost of 1.68 echo’s per Scheme
Great and Good = 13.5 Echo’s in materials + 0.06 Echo gain from Favors = 13.44 Echo Cost for an average of 6 Scheme or a cost of 2.24 Echo’s per Scheme
For the Salon’s I assumed an equal split between Bohemian and Society Scheme for an average cost of 1.96 Echo’s per Scheme and 0.52 Actions per Scheme
Now for the fun Salon table (apologies for formatting, most forums hate tables). Note that for the Duchess I assumed that you would lose the matriarch 50% of the time (source is the wiki) and factored that in as such. Echo cost only includes the cost/gain of materials plus the 1.64 echo opportunity cost of the actions. The actions include the actions needed to build the scheme + in the duchess the cost of the matriarch at 1.64 echo per action.
Guest……Scheme Cost…Echo Cost.......…Avg MW……MW/Scheme…Echo/MW……Act.…….MW/Act
Duchess…..65……......…..188.9……..........750……...……11.54……….-0.42………...147.7……..5.1
Diplomat….28………........…0.14………......280.5……....…10.02……….-0.20………….14.1……19.8
C. Cross…..15………...........1.64…………..200………...…13.33……….-0.16…………..9.1…….21.9
Author…….15………........…1.64………......150………...…10…………...-0.21…………..9.1……..16.4
Mercies….15……..........…..1.64.……….....160………......10.67………..-0.19…………....8.6……..18.5
Singer…….15………….......0.64…………...150.5…….......10.03………..-0.20…………...8.1……...18.5
Princess…100……….....…1.64+1 fate…...2300……..........23…………...-0.07…………..51.6….....44.5
I didn’t include Silas or the Forger as they are sub-optimal due to the 20% failure chance. The Mercies assumed that you have Lettice
Based on the chart, unless you have Echo’s to burn the Duchess is a waste, the Princess is most efficient, but it is a huge amount of overkill and since they fixed “Bring the Party Home” where it could be recycled there is really no need for that many Nights on the Town to store the excess.
The Diplomat, Singer, Mercies and Crooked Cross are your most effective actions depending on how much MW you are targeting and what the
Aires look like.
Court Grind:
This one is really not worth it unless your close, The echo per MW is great, but you will need hundreds to thousands of actions to hit the higher notability levels. The Politics option has a net cost of -0.8 Echo for 1 MW || Arts is -0.73 Echo per 1 MW || Philosophy is -0.665 per 1 MW
Conclusion:
The Salon is the most effective but you are restricted by the RNG of the cards. For Guarantee results Tier 3 trading give you a good return and the ability to spike for the higher levels of Notability. Use Court Grinding only when you are close or looking to maximize Echo cost per MW at lower levels.
edited by karsus on 8/25/2017
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Karsus:
Paramount Presence -- A Correspondent that is happy to teach orphans the deeper mysteries
Accepting: All social actions except Affluent Photographer; Happy to provide patronage
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karsus
Posts: 26
8/25/2017
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Dudebro Pyro wrote:
The only flaw I can see with that is that actions are normally valued at a standard 1.64 echoes (box grind - accessible to any player sufficiently far in the game, reliable, luckless, impossible to permanently lock out of), and in practice can be worth a lot more depending on how much effort one is willing to spend on esoteric, fate-locked or luck-based grinds.
Good point. Post updated!
Thanks,
edited by karsus on 8/25/2017
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Karsus:
Paramount Presence -- A Correspondent that is happy to teach orphans the deeper mysteries
Accepting: All social actions except Affluent Photographer; Happy to provide patronage
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DonaghyLogan
Posts: 205
8/16/2017
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Ah, you posted your critique of the Orphanage method as I was typing, I see. It is rather unreliable and expensive, I'll admit. For roleplay reasons, I won't switch to the Salon, but if your interest in mechanics is great enough you might consider a change. Also, Short Stories might work out for you (I'm not sure how much MW they give, though - check the wiki).
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/DonaghyLogan - An eccentric, ambitious professor with a quite frankly unreasonable number of pets
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Kaijyuu
Posts: 1047
8/16/2017
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If you have any downtime where you're not concerned about earning MW, you can cross convert all your 50 pence items to Visions, Incendiary Scraps, Tales of Terror, and Ztories. Then when the time comes they're immediately available to use for MW, without having to do any of the intermediate non-MW producing steps.
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Be of good cheer. Our contacts have assured us that your sins are forgiven.
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dov
Posts: 2580
8/16/2017
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Another tactic I use is to use opportunities which provide Favours: The Docks (getting their connected pet helps), and convert those to expedition supplies.
Going on expeditions and donating the reward to the university give you roughly half the value of the reward in CP of MW.
e.g. for the Thieves' Cache expedition, this can give 1-40 CP of MW. If your Watchful is high enough, you can complete an expedition in 6 actions (including starting and collecting the reward).
So I try to get my Expedition Supplies to 100 (take times to prepare, of course), which gives me a buffer to go on 10 expeditions in a row if I have to, for a decent fast MW boost when I need it.
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Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how.
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Dudebro Pyro
Posts: 757
8/16/2017
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My current strategy is the Romantic Notions -> Visions ->-> Tales of Terror -> Extraordinary Implications.
You could spend a few weeks grinding out maybe 100k notions, and then with what I'm assuming is 30BDR that should be enough to get you to Paramount Presense. With EF, at 136 actions per day, it will take about 62 days to get 100k notions, and I'm quite certain that 100k is a wide overestimate.
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Dudebro Pyro, eccentric scholar
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Flynneldariel
Posts: 64
8/17/2017
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Can someone plese help me finding what exactly is the whole cycle of side convertion ?
Edit : ok forget it, any tier 3 item and then always the option which costs 50 items and nothing else, was so obvious that i missed it...
edited by Flynneldariel on 8/17/2017
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