Siankan
Posts: 1048
8/17/2017
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dov wrote:
Siankan wrote:
dov wrote:
Exactly. You only need to gather 50 of *any* tier 3 item, *once*.
After a few rounds, your pile of these items will grow and grow (50:51 conversion), and you'll be able to use "Try Again" to really speed things up. Once you have a lot, you can stack them to those items which give MW in the side-conversion so that the next conversion run starts with a boost of MW (5.5 CP per action).
I assume you mean 5.5 CP per profitable conversion, which (since they generally grant 1-10 CP) is a reasonable estimate. However, only every third conversion, give or take, is profitable. You have 13 actions in the loop, four of which are profitable (at, if we use 5.5, 22 total CP). That means that taking the entire loop grants something more like 1.69 CP/action. It works, if you've got limited resources and unlimited actions, but the full loop is not shockingly profitable.
What I've meant was that if you have enough items, you can stockpile them at e.g. "Visions of the Surface". Then, when you start your run, you first conversions (until you use all your VotS) provide 5.5 CP of MW per action.
Later you spend actions moving the items in the cycle, of course, but the point is that when you have enough items you can get a boost of highly effective MW gain to reach the next Notability level, then spend idle actions the rest of the week setting up the items in the right category to be ready for when you need another boost (e.g. after TtH arrives).
We are effectively saying the same thing. However, I think it's valuable to have an estimation that takes into account the entire arc you intend to use. New POSIs will not have enough Visions, etc. stockpiled to make massive Waves at one station. Players who do have thousands upon thousands of the appropriate items stockpiled may not be eager to spend a vast quantity of actions shunting them to the next conversion station at a half-Echo per action. For those not interested in keeping 10,000 Visions on-hand, then it is very useful to know what to expect when moving across the entire circle.
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geremy
Posts: 70
8/19/2017
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Does anyone know the "Engaged in a Scheme: a Salon" cost of inviting the Captivating Princess to your salon? I know you need to have it a level 20 just to unlock her option...
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Gonen
Posts: 817
8/19/2017
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geremy wrote:
Does anyone know the "Engaged in a Scheme: a Salon" cost of inviting the Captivating Princess to your salon? I know you need to have it a level 20 just to unlock her option...
That is the cost. And you need to have her as an acquaintance.
Also - 1 point of Fate.
EDIT: Or are you asking how many points of Scheme are lost due to this?
edited by Gonen on 8/19/2017
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 The Ashen Anesthesiologist - Paramount Londoner
Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness.
The long journey to eccentricity:
On March 10th, 2018, reached 15 on all quirks, simultaneously. The Quirky Anesthesiologist
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genesis
Posts: 924
8/19/2017
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geremy wrote:
Does anyone know the "Engaged in a Scheme: a Salon" cost of inviting the Captivating Princess to your salon? I know you need to have it a level 20 just to unlock her option...
It's hard to know exactly because it's a large random amount that is hard to gather precise data on as it's Fate locked. But in my experience it's enough to wipe your scheme entirely if it's 20-23 levels (but as I said it's not guaranteed so you might get lucky). Higher than that and, so far, some scheme points remained.
edited by genesis on 8/19/2017
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Koenig
Posts: 466
8/19/2017
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So I take it the general consensus is that Cross conversion is the most efficient use of actions to grind making waves?
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geremy
Posts: 70
8/19/2017
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Gonen wrote:
geremy wrote:
Does anyone know the "Engaged in a Scheme: a Salon" cost of inviting the Captivating Princess to your salon? I know you need to have it a level 20 just to unlock her option...
That is the cost. And you need to have her as an acquaintance.
Also - 1 point of Fate.
EDIT: Or are you asking how many points of Scheme are lost due to this?
edited by Gonen on 8/19/2017
Yes, I was asking how many points of Scheme are lost.
genesis wrote:
geremy wrote:
Does anyone know the "Engaged in a Scheme: a Salon" cost of inviting the Captivating Princess to your salon? I know you need to have it a level 20 just to unlock her option...
It's hard to know exactly because it's a large random amount that is hard to gather precise data on as it's Fate locked. But in my experience it's enough to wipe your scheme entirely if it's 20-23 levels (but as I said it's not guaranteed so you might get lucky). Higher than that and, so far, some scheme points remained.
edited by genesis on 8/19/2017
Thanks. So, not an economical use of one's "Engaged in a Scheme" points.
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phryne
Posts: 1351
8/19/2017
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@geremy:
Here's my result from the one time I played that option: http://imgur.com/a/onMsp
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Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writer ― Favours & Renown Guide
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Gonen
Posts: 817
8/19/2017
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phryne wrote:
@geremy:
Here's my result from the one time I played that option: http://imgur.com/a/onMsp
That is a ridiculously amount of MW
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The Ashen Anesthesiologist - Paramount Londoner
Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness.
The long journey to eccentricity:
On March 10th, 2018, reached 15 on all quirks, simultaneously. The Quirky Anesthesiologist
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Dudebro Pyro
Posts: 757
8/19/2017
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What is the actual use of it anyway? Unless one is trying to grind 15 Notability without good BRD, it seems like it would always be far overkill.
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Dudebro Pyro, eccentric scholar
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phryne
Posts: 1351
8/19/2017
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you can use the overkill amount to buy Nights on the Town.
And the text is pretty cool.
edited by phryne on 8/19/2017
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Siankan
Posts: 1048
8/19/2017
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Dudebro Pyro wrote:
What is the actual use of it anyway? Unless one is trying to grind 15 Notability without good BRD, it seems like it would always be far overkill.
First, nothing works like overkill!
Second, I would be disappointed with anyone calling in the Captivating Princess merely for mercenary purposes. Who would not want a member of the Royal Family at one's salon? The very thought! (Of course, given that it's this Royal Family, I might cut you some slack if Bartleby prefers not to.)
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Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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genesis
Posts: 924
8/19/2017
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Dudebro Pyro wrote:
What is the actual use of it anyway? Unless one is trying to grind 15 Notability without good BRD, it seems like it would always be far overkill.
Even with maximum BDR this is the only way to get enough MW to get from 14 to 15 in one go. The Matriarch is not enough if I recall correctly.
edited by genesis on 8/19/2017
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Ben
Posts: 657
8/20/2017
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Let me suggest that there is a better way.
Making waves stops being the best way to get noticed, even with maxed BDR, long before 15.
I propose that "weddings in name only" are the best path.
Two people, working together to get the least expensive wedding that still comes with a notability point.
You two work together, you cash in together, you get one point each without making waves needed, then you divorce, and then you do it again.
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Siankan
Posts: 1048
8/20/2017
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Ben wrote:
Let me suggest that there is a better way.
That way is only better if A) the players are entirely unconcerned with the role-playing implications, or B) the characters are cynically unconcerned with making and breaking vows thrice a week. Those strictures preclude that path for much (I suspect most) of the player base.
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Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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dov
Posts: 2580
8/20/2017
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genesis wrote:
Even with maximum BDR this is the only way to get enough MW to get from 14 to 15 in one go. The Matriarch is not enough if I recall correctly.
Barely.
With max BDR you need MW 43 to get to 15, which is 946 CP overall.
If you already have MW 14 from the last increase, then you "only" need to gain 841 CP, which is within reach of inviting the Duchess (if you're lucky).
But Rule Playing aside, inviting the Princess is the most assured way to get you enough MW for your next Notability point, no matter your BDR.
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Ben
Posts: 657
8/21/2017
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Siankan wrote:
Ben wrote:
Let me suggest that there is a better way.
That way is only better if A) the players are entirely unconcerned with the role-playing implications, or B) the characters are cynically unconcerned with making and breaking vows thrice a week. Those strictures preclude that path for much (I suspect most) of the player base.
*points to a certain number of candles*
Some of us are used to doing strange things with vows.
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karsus
Posts: 26
8/25/2017
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I did a bit of analysis today on Cost/Efficiency in making waves (on a path to paramount and got bored at work  )
Cost and action Breakdowns below, assume averages for Tier 3 conversations and a cost of 1.64 Echo per action. For Favor’s creation (needed for Scheme) I assumed a 50%/50% split between using the Singer (which is amazing) or the specific Bohemian or Society card (which is somewhat expensive).
Item Conversions:
When looking at Item conversions a complete loop (13 actions) will net you about 21 MW or 1.62 MW/Action at a cost of 1.14 Echo per action in opportunity cost (1 action = 1.64 echo in value, conversions give 0.5 echo’s + 1.62 MW per action) – that translates to a cost of 0.71 Echo’s per MW.
With a High BDR, only 10+ Notability will be annoying (@ 26 BDR lvl 10 needs 420 MW and lvl 15 is 1170 MW after TTH), so you can spend some time while traversing levels 1-9 to convert your Tier 3 items into Visions. Visions to Memory’s of a Distant Shore is only 3 actions in which two of them pay out MW (1-10 or average of 5.5 MW), that gives an return of 3.67 MW per action and an opportunity cost of 0.31 Echo’s per MW.
This is good for a quick run at higher levels of Notability (5,000 Visions + 300 Actions = ~1,110 MW = about enough to move from 14 to 15 Notability at high levels of BDR); but it does put you out of position for the following week.
The Cycle from Memories of a distant Shore back to Visions is only a return of ~1 MW per action and a cost of 1.14 Echo’s per MW. Getting those same 5,000 Tier 3’s back to Visions will take 1,000 Actions so plan ahead when doing mass item conversions for higher tiers of Notability.
Salon’s
Salon’s are a bit trickery as you need to build up Scheme first (usually over multiple weeks) prior to using it. Due to the RNG of drawing the cards you need this is an opportunistic approach which takes planning to really pay off.
Scheme is earned through Bohemian or Society Favor + items. An easy and efficient way to earn favor in these is “Drop in for a Chat” on the Sardonic Music-Hall Singer Visit, earning 1 of each favor + Persuasive *1.5 in Whispered hints (I used a 200 Persuasive for calculations below).
The other method is the Faction Cards which only grant 1 Favor and Cost 0.5 Echo’s in items + the 1.64 Echo in opportunity cost to use the action. In calculations below I assumed an equal split between these two methods. This gives an average Favor gain of 0.02 echo’s per favor (Singer gets you 3 Echos in Hints but costs half an action per favor = 2.18 Echo gain|| Faction Card costs 0.5 Echo’s in stuff + 1.64 echo for the action = 2.14 Echo Loss)
Wise and Wicked = 11 Echo’s in materials + 0.06 Echo gain from Favors = 10.94 Echo Cost for an average of 6.5 Scheme or a cost of 1.68 echo’s per Scheme
Great and Good = 13.5 Echo’s in materials + 0.06 Echo gain from Favors = 13.44 Echo Cost for an average of 6 Scheme or a cost of 2.24 Echo’s per Scheme
For the Salon’s I assumed an equal split between Bohemian and Society Scheme for an average cost of 1.96 Echo’s per Scheme and 0.52 Actions per Scheme
Now for the fun Salon table (apologies for formatting, most forums hate tables). Note that for the Duchess I assumed that you would lose the matriarch 50% of the time (source is the wiki) and factored that in as such. Echo cost only includes the cost/gain of materials plus the 1.64 echo opportunity cost of the actions. The actions include the actions needed to build the scheme + in the duchess the cost of the matriarch at 1.64 echo per action.
Guest……Scheme Cost…Echo Cost.......…Avg MW……MW/Scheme…Echo/MW……Act.…….MW/Act
Duchess…..65……......…..188.9……..........750……...……11.54……….-0.42………...147.7……..5.1
Diplomat….28………........…0.14………......280.5……....…10.02……….-0.20………….14.1……19.8
C. Cross…..15………...........1.64…………..200………...…13.33……….-0.16…………..9.1…….21.9
Author…….15………........…1.64………......150………...…10…………...-0.21…………..9.1……..16.4
Mercies….15……..........…..1.64.……….....160………......10.67………..-0.19…………....8.6……..18.5
Singer…….15………….......0.64…………...150.5…….......10.03………..-0.20…………...8.1……...18.5
Princess…100……….....…1.64+1 fate…...2300……..........23…………...-0.07…………..51.6….....44.5
I didn’t include Silas or the Forger as they are sub-optimal due to the 20% failure chance. The Mercies assumed that you have Lettice
Based on the chart, unless you have Echo’s to burn the Duchess is a waste, the Princess is most efficient, but it is a huge amount of overkill and since they fixed “Bring the Party Home” where it could be recycled there is really no need for that many Nights on the Town to store the excess.
The Diplomat, Singer, Mercies and Crooked Cross are your most effective actions depending on how much MW you are targeting and what the
Aires look like.
Court Grind:
This one is really not worth it unless your close, The echo per MW is great, but you will need hundreds to thousands of actions to hit the higher notability levels. The Politics option has a net cost of -0.8 Echo for 1 MW || Arts is -0.73 Echo per 1 MW || Philosophy is -0.665 per 1 MW
Conclusion:
The Salon is the most effective but you are restricted by the RNG of the cards. For Guarantee results Tier 3 trading give you a good return and the ability to spike for the higher levels of Notability. Use Court Grinding only when you are close or looking to maximize Echo cost per MW at lower levels.
edited by karsus on 8/25/2017
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Karsus:
Paramount Presence -- A Correspondent that is happy to teach orphans the deeper mysteries
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Dudebro Pyro
Posts: 757
8/25/2017
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The only flaw I can see with that is that actions are normally valued at a standard 1.64 echoes (box grind - accessible to any player sufficiently far in the game, reliable, luckless, impossible to permanently lock out of), and in practice can be worth a lot more depending on how much effort one is willing to spend on esoteric, fate-locked or luck-based grinds.
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Dudebro Pyro, eccentric scholar
Spare Starveling Kitties always welcome. I collect them.
For that matter, send me your unwanted cat boxes too.
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karsus
Posts: 26
8/25/2017
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Dudebro Pyro wrote:
The only flaw I can see with that is that actions are normally valued at a standard 1.64 echoes (box grind - accessible to any player sufficiently far in the game, reliable, luckless, impossible to permanently lock out of), and in practice can be worth a lot more depending on how much effort one is willing to spend on esoteric, fate-locked or luck-based grinds.
Good point. Post updated!
Thanks,
edited by karsus on 8/25/2017
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Karsus:
Paramount Presence -- A Correspondent that is happy to teach orphans the deeper mysteries
Accepting: All social actions except Affluent Photographer; Happy to provide patronage
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