GoingFTL
Posts: 113
8/3/2017
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Dream-Snakes, and their greater (biologically or stature) cousin, FingerKings, are naturally found in Parabola, a dimension close to our own, but it is composed of Is-Not, a material that is the exact opposite of our material, and should not exist. It is not antimatter, just an analog to it. Anyways, if exposed to sunlight(the laws which dictate what is and what isn't) it will probably burn, quickly, or just turn into ashes. I have come up with 2 relatively simple ways to use these properties to fight them, both involving the modification of bullets.
Bullet design #1: The Mirrorcatch Bullet. It is what it sounds like. If you do not know what Mirrorcatch Boxes are, I will explain. Mirrorcatch Boxes are boxes with mirrors on every interior surface, that will hold Sunlight, possibly because Parabola will keep out ANY sunlight. Upon impact of the bullet with anything of Is-Not, it will either burn a hole in what it hit, or disintegrate what it hits. Two flaws in this design is that a Dream-Snake with quick enough reflexes could escape through the dark mirrors to our world, or how you would obtain sunlight, even though the Travertine Spiral has a funicular, but information on it is almost as non-existent as that Dream-Snake I just shot. The next one has no flaws, other than being extremely dangerous to both parties.
Bullet Design #2: Correspondence Bullets. As with the previous design, this requires no explanation, unless you don't know what it is. Correspondence is the language of law, sunlight in a letter form. You can learn it, and change the laws of physics using it. I don't wish to do that, which will make it easy, and very dangerous. Correspondence causes what it is written on to heat up, but, since bullets are made of metal, we will not have a problem. I assume that it will be very easy to write what the physics currently are, but the stronger you make it, the more it can hurt you, unless you have not died, have not changed your position on the Chain, or turned into a monster. It's all good if you have drank Hespidarian Cider, of course. When you shoot the Dream-Snake, it will either burn the area, turn it into a cinder, or disintegrate it, depending on how strong/if there were examples of Dream-Snakes being exposed to sunlight. Either way, the bullet will cut right through it. It will cut through the Is-Not air, the Is-Not trees, and the Is-Not ground, so recovery is not an option, unless it hits a mirror, and I do not know what will happen, then. With a bit more tinkering, you could make it resistant to gravity, and it would go on endlessly, and you could also fight off the Writhing River(River made of Dream-Snakes) with a submachine gun version of it. If mass-production is needed, bullets can be purchased by the bucketful, and Rattus Faber could be trained in carving a specific mix of Correspondence symbols on them. If you have made yourself an enemy of the forces these bullets function by, it could to be modified to work just behind mirrors, but there are some downsides to this. I have my suspicions that some/most snakes, like cats, have an avatar of a Dream-Snake, or are an avatar of a Dream-Snake. If not, then they are at least aware of the war between the Cats and FingerKings. You could kill snakes by the truckload if this is so. And if someone you know is possessed by a FingerKing, you could just shoot the person, and save them.
I hope you enjoyed the Correspondence Bullet that can kill evils, protect you from the Liberation, the only way to set up a Parabolan Base-Camp, and will be incredibly valuable to the cats, in their war against the FingerKings.
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LillianAranach
Posts: 45
8/3/2017
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Somebody should call the Irrepressible Cannoneer. This seems like the kind of thing he would do, regardless of who the weapon would actually be used against.
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They say, "There is a delightfully delectable corruption about Aranach, and she seeks to spread it, all the while revelling in truth and sin in equal parts."
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Lillian%20Aranach
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Isaac Zienfried
Posts: 364
8/3/2017
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Hahaha! I, a (fledgling) Shattering Force of some renown and real-life gun-nut, shall swoop down to offer my input!
The obvious issue with Mirrorcatch bullets is, well... mirrors would never survive being fired from a gun. Bullets undergo quite a bit of force and pressure, which is precisely what drives them out of the barrel with such remarkable velocity. Not to mention compacting a complex matrix of mirrors into something as small as a bullet would be beyond the work of even Rattus Faber. The Mirrorcatch Boxes aren't just a mirror in a box, after all: they're a very complex set of mirrors built to constantly reflect back into one another while closed and "catch" the sunlight, which then also needs to be entirely sealed within so as to let no light escape. I'm quite convinced even the "normal" examples are ratwork, and likely superb instances of it. Even an empty Mirrorcatch Box is valuable and remarkable... even if someone in a certain establishment has found some way to mass-produce them, though the costs may explain why the sunlight has to be cut with light from... other sources.
However, those bullets are not what's receiving attention here, are they? Your second idea has more promise. The issue is, however, that Correspondence only burns lead once enough sigils are engraved, and there isn't a lot of time between engraving the final one and the dissolution of the metal. Bullets, even of a greater caliber than one expects from a handgun or rifle, could hold perhaps four or so if we're using ratwork inscriptions... whether that's too much or too little to burn that much lead (does the size of the sigil influence that at all?) is another question.
Assuming we use enough that the bullet isn't destroyed before even being fired, what effects the Correspondence will have when impacting (entering?) the target are entirely unknown. Holding onto a Plaque doesn't immediately damage you (though doing so during sleep can have interesting effects on your dreams). It's entirely possible a bullet that isn't burning from too many sigils is little different from a regular one. A magazine could also be an issue, because if we're cramming sigils onto bullets, having cartridges held in close proximity could have undesirable effects, and potentially lead to misfires and malfunctions of a very lethal sort.
Of course, all of this is assuming standard materials are used. What if one makes a bullet of heartmetal? Or fires Stygian ivory bolts from a crossbow? Or scintillack bolts? What if any of those are engraved with the Correspondence?
All in all, as both a Shattering Force and a Glassman, I'm going to advise just not engaging Fingerkings if you can avoid it. If you're face-to-face with them, you're likely already in danger that's not of a physical nature. They prefer indirect conflict anyways.
Anchovies wrote:
Doesn't one of the ambitions involve a Correspondence cannon?
Yesno. Sort of. Bag a Legend involves the construction of a cannon, but I believe it's based more on the sonic power of Aeolian Screams than Correspondence Plaques. If I remember correctly, anyways. It's been a while since I hit the content wall in my Ambition. Then again, they're both Wild Words items, so the Screams may be somewhat related to the language of stars. They're certainly... Storm-y.
edited by Isaac Zienfried on 8/3/2017
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Isaac Zienfried, 'The Vacillating Belligerent.'
A gentleman of complicated loyalties, complicated morality, and complicated goals.
But really, it's hard to keep things simple down here!
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gronostaj
Posts: 403
8/3/2017
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GoingFTL wrote:
a submachine gun version
a submachine correspondence gun. My god. Please hook me up with your honey-dealer
edit: that said, why would you even want to kill snakes. they're so cute. harmless Is-Not noodles.
edited by gronostaj on 8/3/2017
--
Gronostaj (pl. Ermine), a decadent duellist of mysterious and indistinct gender. Seeker. Willing to die- but not of boredom. Open to all social actions, including the harmful ones.
Soft-Spoken Surgeon, a doctor who owes an onerous debt. Professor of medicine at the University by day, at criminal employ by night. Open to all non-harmful social actions.
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Saklad
Posts: 528
8/3/2017
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I have a question, and it seems to be one that has received surprisingly little attention: what constitutes light, and what constitutes sunlight?
The Neathbow consists of light that does not agree with the Great Chain. The laws each color enforces do not align with the will of the Judgements, or at least not with the will of the Sun. Meanwhile, artificial light sources like glim lamps seem to have some sort of effect on reality in the Neath, judging by various snippets in Sunless Sea. If that’s the case, what law does that light enforce?
This leads to another question: how is the will of the Judgements conveyed through light? We already know the Judgements are not monolithic, and that each Judgement has dominion over its territory. This must mean that the light each Judgement produces is somehow different based on what it wants. Is this part of all light, or is it unique to sunlight? According to zailors and anarchists, all light has this property. What’s the source of the law such light enforces, if it didn’t come from a Judgement? Does the color of the light somehow impart a legal system? If all light is law, what’s with the Iron Republic’s fiery splendour?
If any light could work, a mundane torch could kill a Fingerking. If any sunlight (in the real-world sense) could work, you could scour Parabola with a bunch of grow lamps. We don’t need to futz around with Correspondence-enhanced bullets (good luck with cooling that contraption) or figuring out how to cushion tiny mirrors. We just need to isolate the element of light that enforces reality, then figure out how to replicate it.
…This is totally how the Dawn Machine happened, isn’t it?
edited by Saklad5 on 8/3/2017
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Saklad5, a man of many talents
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Addis Rook
Posts: 125
8/9/2017
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...What if we carved the bullets from Mountain shards? It seems like an ideal candidate for carving correspondence into, and could hold many more sigils than normal materials. It is part-judgement, after all. What better material than a piece of a quasi-judgement? It seems like it's just the right amount of illegal to possibly even pass through mirrors effectively with.
We could also try setting up a sunlight collection system on Aestival, concentrate it into a laser, and formulate a network of mirrors to London for a source of fresh and potent sunlight ready for decompressing and utilization... A bit of a project, but it's still an idea. It could even stabilize the positions of the islands of the Neath, and give us a weapon against Hell as well.
One question I have though, is could you even pass sunlight/correspondence through a mirror? Sunlight and Parabola are anathema to each other, after all.
edited by Addis Rook on 8/10/2017
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MrUnderhill89
Posts: 123
8/13/2017
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All this talk about Correspondence bullets makes me wonder if a Neathy adaptation of Der Freischütz would be successful. The first six bullets strike true, the seventh melts the cast, the audience, and the theatre.
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MrUnderhill89 - The Master Under the Hill
MrUnderhill77 - Doomed Northwards
I'll be happy to accept most social invites, but please no Affluent Photographer requests.
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gronostaj
Posts: 403
8/13/2017
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MrUnderhill89 wrote:
All this talk about Correspondence bullets makes me wonder if a Neathy adaptation of Der Freischütz would be successful. The first six bullets strike true, the seventh melts the cast, the audience, and the theatre.
i'd watch that, dying a horrible fiery death be damned. and they could cast a real devil as samiel, too. Perks of living in the neath.
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Gronostaj (pl. Ermine), a decadent duellist of mysterious and indistinct gender. Seeker. Willing to die- but not of boredom. Open to all social actions, including the harmful ones.
Soft-Spoken Surgeon, a doctor who owes an onerous debt. Professor of medicine at the University by day, at criminal employ by night. Open to all non-harmful social actions.
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Vavakx Nonexus
Posts: 892
8/3/2017
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I can confirm that the Second Design is, thankfully, safely foiled by the properties of Parabola at large. The place has a tendency to flay souls - and presumably other sources of law - at the edges. Correspondence, as stated above, is able to execute the effects it describes - indeed some things the Correspondence allows only in dreams - but the explosive reaction between the Correspondence and reality is lacking in any capacity.
As for foiling the snakes with mirrors, I would mark that as an idea most unwise for you for many reasons.
Lost in Reflections indicates to us that:
A) The Fingerkings are able to contact people through used mirrorcatch boxes.
B) That actual Sunlight would strip a mirror of its power. (Note that nothing is said about the Orts itself being damaged: It is protected behind glass)
From this, we can conclude that, between the Treachery of Glass/opening of the mirrors improving the connection between the Is and the Is-Not and the challenges of transporting sunlight to the Neath without it expiring and losing potency, any light we get down here just isn't up to snuff for disabling mirrors, no mention of even touching the serpents that dwell within.
Another issue with the first plan is that reasonable places to strike are few an far between: They do not fully exist in the Neath, and sunlight both cannot be transported and would lose its power in Parabola. This leaves you with Hell (and possibly Irem) as your main option for firing location, which isn't exactly great.
Hell is currently untouched by the dream-snakes, and will only be visited in large numbers during the Bishop of Southwark's destiny.
Irem, while unhinged from time, still only connects to the fully-Is-Not Mirror-Marches, a transition that I doubt your sunlight will be able to pass potently. Another problem is that the transition requires help from the local Riddle-Fishers, who I doubt would be keen on letting you attempt it.
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Amets Estibariz, the Moulting Eidolon: Cradled by a sun all their own.
Blabbing, the Hobo Everyone Knows: The One Who Pulls The Strings. A Clarity In The Darkness.
Charlotte and the Caretaker: A family?
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gronostaj
Posts: 403
8/3/2017
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GoingFTL wrote:
They're true evil. Eviler than anything in Fallen London!
yeah, i mean, fair point. but also, they're cute evil. you can't fight cute. have you ever seen a snake up close? their mouth do the :3 how could you possibly wage a war against that
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Gronostaj (pl. Ermine), a decadent duellist of mysterious and indistinct gender. Seeker. Willing to die- but not of boredom. Open to all social actions, including the harmful ones.
Soft-Spoken Surgeon, a doctor who owes an onerous debt. Professor of medicine at the University by day, at criminal employ by night. Open to all non-harmful social actions.
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Teaspoon
Posts: 866
8/3/2017
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I do like this idea of yours about lead bullets etched with the Correspondence.
Or not like, exactly, but this is exactly the kind of horrifying plan that the Admirals are gonna dream up some day for the use of the Neathy Rifles...
edited by Teaspoon on 8/3/2017
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Truth lies at the bottom of a well.
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Alt%20Ern
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Carns
Posts: 30
8/3/2017
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This plan has some flaws.
1. Your gun, your bullets, and you will melt, according to some sources, just seven letters of correspondence is enough to make many things burn up, even if you surpass this limit, it would probably happen anyway if you used a machine gun with the sheer amount of bullets and sigils.
2. Anyone who makes enough bullets for the gun will either have bleeding eyes and go blind, thus preventing them from writing, or will be set on fire which has a similarly detrimental effect.
3. Your eyes will bleed and be set on fire, which is bad for aiming to say the least.
4. Premature gunpowder explosions due to heat = Premature shots
5. In the Mirror-Marches, you can find a Parabolan tree with Correspondence carved into it, it is not on fire despite being Is-Not, which brings implications about your gun's effectiveness
6. You have to understand Correspondence and know what part refers to which part of physics, which is hard when they can refer to two different specific things. As shown here.
edited by Carns on 8/3/2017
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folklore364
Posts: 136
8/3/2017
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Lovely idea, I have to say you could use a mirror catch bullets in the form of a blunderbuss potentially. Instead of discharging pellets/assorted items it would unleash the sunlight. Basically using breaking the box/container open as firing. That aside you're probably better off using and treating mirror catch objects as explosives in parabola.
edited by folklore364 on 8/3/2017
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A correspondent who hungers for knowledge. May have doomed london to war with Hell.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/folklore364
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Anchovies
Posts: 421
8/3/2017
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Doesn't one of the ambitions involve a Correspondence cannon?
Danger noodles are cute, yes. But these are body-snatching danger noodles.
Anyways. I've posted this in a different thread, but it's relevant here.
Last one, I promise. Querry: would it be just as bad to bring a camera (cinematographic or otherwise) into the Labyrinth of Tigers as it would a mirror?
The single-lens reflex (SLR) camera, invented in 1861 and put into commercial production in 1884, uses a mirror. NO PHOTOGRAPHY. VIOLATORS WILL BE DEVOURED.
But how might Fingerkings react to being photographed? I think I have an idea.
1. Fingerkings are from Parabola, the place where "is-not" is.
2. Fingerkings can reach the Neath through mirrors.
3. A person possessed (or otherwise body-snatched) by Fingerkings has reptilian eyes.
4. The Gallery of Serpents is a prison for "Many-Fingered Kings", filled with wooden sculptures of unnatural creatures.
What if Fingerkings travel through the Neath by means of depiction? Mirrors present an image of the world; Fingerkings enter the world through mirrors. Eyes present an image to the mind; if someone has lost their mind to Fingerkings, the serpentine influence can be seen in their eyes. A wooden sculpture presents a frozen, immobile image of a thing; Fingerkings can be imprisoned in a place of wooden sculptures. A dream can be made real in an image. Might the same be true of the Many-Fingered Kings?
A photograph is a static image, and may thus be able to imprison Fingerkings in the same manner as a wooden sculpture. An SLR camera would transport the Fingerking to a mirror, from which it could escape back to Parabola before its image was projected onto the film.
So the best way to shoot a Fingerking might involve no bullets at all.
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Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God — but to create Him.
—Sir Arthur C Clarke
Lionel Anchovies. Character on indefinite hiatus.
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
8/3/2017
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GoingFTL wrote:
I appreciate your concern for me, but this is reinforcing the same physics, instead of having different, more dangerous physics. There should be no damage to the gun.
The Correspondence tends to be very very dangerous for everything nearby, even if you can hit the fine line between too little Correspondence making the bullets functionally the same as mundane ones and too much Correspondence just melting the bullets in the barrel. The only known Correspondence-based weapon is the Memento Mori, and that had to be caged in heartmetal and imbued with a living soul to be controllable enough to weaponize. For this to not damage the gun, I suspect you'd need a very unusual custom-made gun.
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Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
 Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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folklore364
Posts: 136
8/4/2017
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It almost sounds like it'd be better to try and come up with a poison of some sort for them. Is it known what castigator venom does to creatures of parabola?
I would also like to mention that the mechanic from sunless sea has a repeatable way to set up a trap for fingerkings, involving a mirror-catch box, a clay man, and several crew members. Doing so contaminates that item with viric. I wonder what would happen if they were exposed to say Violant or Peligan colors.
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A correspondent who hungers for knowledge. May have doomed london to war with Hell.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/folklore364
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Vavakx Nonexus
Posts: 892
8/3/2017
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Anchovies wrote:
Doesn't one of the ambitions involve a Correspondence cannon?
Danger noodles are cute, yes. But these are body-snatching danger noodles.
Anyways. I've posted this in a different thread, but it's relevant here.
Last one, I promise. Querry: would it be just as bad to bring a camera (cinematographic or otherwise) into the Labyrinth of Tigers as it would a mirror?
The single-lens reflex (SLR) camera, invented in 1861 and put into commercial production in 1884, uses a mirror. NO PHOTOGRAPHY. VIOLATORS WILL BE DEVOURED.
But how might Fingerkings react to being photographed? I think I have an idea.
1. Fingerkings are from Parabola, the place where "is-not" is.
2. Fingerkings can reach the Neath through mirrors.
3. A person possessed (or otherwise body-snatched) by Fingerkings has reptilian eyes.
4. The Gallery of Serpents is a prison for "Many-Fingered Kings", filled with wooden sculptures of unnatural creatures.
What if Fingerkings travel through the Neath by means of depiction? Mirrors present an image of the world; Fingerkings enter the world through mirrors. Eyes present an image to the mind; if someone has lost their mind to Fingerkings, the serpentine influence can be seen in their eyes. A wooden sculpture presents a frozen, immobile image of a thing; Fingerkings can be imprisoned in a place of wooden sculptures. A dream can be made real in an image. Might the same be true of the Many-Fingered Kings?
A photograph is a static image, and may thus be able to imprison Fingerkings in the same manner as a wooden sculpture. An SLR camera would transport the Fingerking to a mirror, from which it could escape back to Parabola before its image was projected onto the film.
So the best way to shoot a Fingerking might involve no bullets at all.
I have to compliment this idea, though. It noticed a connection between a lot of content I haven't seen brought up elsewhere.
It's worth bringing up:
1) The statuettes used to trap Fingerkings by the Genial Magician are specifically referred to as Serpent-Images, which is definitely a point for the images-carry-power-over-Is-Not idea.
2) The Genial Magician also mentions that the statuette he finds has 'different geometries', which indicates an involvement of some further baroque variable needed to trap Fingerkings.
3) Several other results indicate that the statuette, even when empty, influences your dreams unless you remove every single mirrors on the ship.
4) The spiritual photography you can do for your newspaper, which is exactly the topic: the PC successfully takes a photo of a group of 'fairies', who are very serpentine in shape and hinted to be dream-snakes.
5) Spiritual photography doesn't mention any sort of haunting dreams in the results, even when failing the challenge, which seems to go against the idea that photographs carry the same amount of fingerking-trapping potential as Serpent-Images and the Gallery of Serpents. Is it due to a lack of resemblance and/or the appropriate 'geometries'? Snakes are fairly well-known for disguising as reflections of fairly commonplace objects, such as the Nephrite Lens.
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Amets Estibariz, the Moulting Eidolon: Cradled by a sun all their own.
Blabbing, the Hobo Everyone Knows: The One Who Pulls The Strings. A Clarity In The Darkness.
Charlotte and the Caretaker: A family?
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Teaspoon
Posts: 866
8/3/2017
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So, the image of a Finger-King is itself a Finger-King? *chortles obnoxiously*
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Truth lies at the bottom of a well.
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Alt%20Ern
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GoingFTL
Posts: 113
8/4/2017
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Greatest evil... the stars are not evil. Not good, either. Lawful Chaotic, yes, but Fingerkings are straight-up Chaotic, along with the Liberation and Anarchists.
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folklore364
Posts: 136
8/14/2017
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Addis Rook wrote:
...What if we carved the bullets from Mountain shards? It seems like an ideal candidate for carving correspondence into, and could hold many more sigils than normal materials. It is part-judgement, after all. What better material than a piece of a quasi-judgement? It seems like it's just the right amount of illegal to possibly even pass through mirrors effectively with.
We could also try setting up a sunlight collection system on Aestival, concentrate it into a laser, and formulate a network of mirrors to London for a source of fresh and potent sunlight ready for decompressing and utilization... A bit of a project, but it's still an idea. It could even stabilize the positions of the islands of the Neath, and give us a weapon against Hell as well.
One question I have though, is could you even pass sunlight/correspondence through a mirror? Sunlight and Parabola are anathema to each other, after all.
edited by Addis Rook on 8/10/2017
Running with that so to speak, the center of the post office island in sunless sea might be usable as well.
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A correspondent who hungers for knowledge. May have doomed london to war with Hell.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/folklore364
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