Televangelist
Posts: 109
7/29/2017
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The new path to what I can only assume is Paramount Presence is wonderful in how it incorporates a number of the "games within a game" of Fallen London, such as raising Couriers' Footprint, Scrap Collecting, Advancing the Liberation of the Night, Renown, the various social actions.
Three options per card is great! Having multiple paths is great.
But there are four very wonderful 'games within the game' that you missed, and it would be wonderful if you could add them as 'fourth options' on the cards. It would be great to see them rewarded, and they could be tweaked to not make the path to Paramount Presence any easier than it is.
They are:
-Scarlet Saint
-Getting the Noman Tattoo
-Completing Seeking and Turning Back (the sevenfold knock)
-Adrift on a Sea of Misery (something which many of us take just as seriously as Advancing the Liberation of the Night -- and fits in well thematically with the recent Season of Stones)
Sea of Misery is a little bit debatable since it's not supported with as much ingame content as some other things, and you could make an argument for replacing it on this list with Connected: The Masters, a very high level of Explorer of the Unterzee, The top tier of Knife and Candle when it returns, or something along those lines. But finding a 4th isn't hard, and the other three are ironclad shoo-ins.
What do you think, FBG? Paramount Presence is a great way of recognizing everything we've gone through and all the ways in which Fallen Londoners have found interesting ways to push themselves within the game's framework; why not push that idea a little bit further? 
edited by Televangelist on 7/29/2017
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Passionario
Posts: 777
7/29/2017
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I find the idea of Scarlet Saint as a Paramount requirement to be problematic. Not because of the Fate/F2P aspect (although that merits consideration), but because it involves an exclusive choice. None of the other PP criteria do that - you need to acquire all three 5-card lodgings rather than pick the Only Correct House, have A spouse rather than guess the Only Canon Love Interest, and so forth. Paramount Presence is about the depth and breadth of your accomplishments, not the accuracy of your choices.
Moreover, the House of Chimes entrance storylet is so interesting and memorable because it presents the player with dozens of branches, and there are no right and wrong answers among them - you are free to pick whichever suits your character best. However, once it becomes known that one of these options also enables you to sidestep a costly requirement later on, the choice becomes significantly less interesting. (Not to mention that it would also create a warped incentive for the players to postpone their first foray into the House until they have Hell and Church Renown 40.)
I have a modest proposal. Instead of Scarlet Sainthood, require the candidate to have all Quirks at 12 or higher at the same time (or even 15+, it has been done at least once). This would sidestep all of the above issues and would nicely tie in with the idea of Paramount Presence being the paragon of all aspects of London.
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Upon further consideration, I find that the Noman tattoo may not be the best choice for a PP criterion, either. It would make sense mechanically (although it bears notice that no other PP criterion is contingent on seasonal content), but makes less sense flavour-wise, given the nature of the Barrister's interest.
It is, after all, a private tattoo, inscribed in secret to commemorate a highly personal tale of hope, grief and loss. It gives no Bizarre or Dreaded, so its existence is presumably limited to a very tight-knit circle of your character's confidantes. So while it is a highly impressive accomplishment, it is not one that would make your character a household name in London.
(Oh, but you know what would? Maximizing all three newspaper baron qualities, that's what.)
edited by Passionario on 7/29/2017
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Passionario: Profile, Story, Ending
Passion: Profile, Appearance
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Màiread
Posts: 385
7/29/2017
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I would be pretty uncomfortable with the Noman tattoo becoming an unlock condition for Paramount Presence. Keeping a noman alive was one of if not the most affecting narrative experiences I've had in Fallen London. It took a year of active desperate preparation, getting up in the middle of the night, fighting with everything I had and feeling tremendous love for the little creature I knew I would someday lose. I hate grinding both intellectually and viscerally but I did it because of how much I loved the story and how much I wanted Peggy to experience the Feast. The problem with adding the tattoo as a PP is it goes from being an amazing player-driven story to just another 'achievement' on a checklist, a fate which is already vulnerable to given its reputation as 'supermegahard'. I mean, ultimately it doesn't matter if people are having fun with it, but I'd still prefer caring for a Noman to remain an end in itself.
I also think Scarlet Saint is better kept as a character defining thing rather than an achievement, especially since it's fate-locked.
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
7/29/2017
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The Ubergoat only costs one Fate though, well within the bounds of the free Fate from playing. A bit different than something requiring an EF subscription. (Plus doesn't meeting the Scarlet Saint requirements effectively require spending Fate by itself?)
And I'm seconding that anything SMEN-related really should not be rewarded elsewhere. SMEN was originally supposed to be a story separate from the rest of the game; while it consumes resources from elsewhere there's not supposed to be any mechanical incentive to Seek. The addition of the Seven-Fold Knock changes that slightly but having it actually unlock something in the main game would be completely against the spirit.
edited by Optimatum on 7/29/2017
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Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
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Jeremy Avalon
Posts: 345
7/29/2017
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Scarlet Saint is fate-locked and would therefore make a poor candidate, I think.
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How we must glow; yes, I bet we look like snow.
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Sir Joseph Marlen
Posts: 575
7/29/2017
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Overall, I think they'd be interesting options along the route to becoming a Paramount Presence. You could make the argument that these suggestions have just as much credibility as the Renown requirements or other quality milestones. Though, I don't think the SMEN option would work as well, since the general theme of SMEN is taking on dangers and sacrifices for little to no good reason and with no reward but punishment. To be awarded for not going NORTH seems to go against that general theme.
If you want, you could post this suggestion on the FL Reworks thread for the Person of Some Importance update. I doubt Failbetter would add any new options that they haven't already, but it'll be a nice conversation starter if nothing else!
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Saklad
Posts: 528
7/29/2017
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If there was an SMEN option, choosing it would set all your stats to 5, remove your Notability and Making Waves, unset each of the London’s ____ qualities, and set all your Menaces to 77.
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Saklad5, a man of many talents
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
7/30/2017
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Saklad wrote:
If there was an SMEN option, choosing it would set all your stats to 5, remove your Notability and Making Waves, unset each of the London’s ____ qualities, and set all your Menaces to 77.
Don't you mean it would set your stats to 7? :P
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Harlocke
Posts: 506
7/30/2017
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I don't think every notable challenge needs to unlock something. Being a Scarlet Saint, or having a Noman Tattoo are accomplishments worth pursuing on their own, without it just being a prerequisite for some greater quest. We already have four options per London's organ, which is pretty reasonable as is.
Or rather than just making every hard challenge an unlock for Paramount Presence, save them for other high level stories down the line.
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
7/31/2017
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Scarlet Saint is a House of Chimes entry option. It requires 12 Austere, 12 Hedonist, 40 Hell Renown, and 75 Church Connection (soon to be 40 Church Renown, undoubtedly).
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Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.
Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
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Urthdigger
Posts: 939
7/29/2017
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Jeremy Avalon wrote:
Scarlet Saint is fate-locked and would therefore make a poor candidate, I think.
So's the ubergoat as I recall.
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
7/29/2017
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Scarlet Saint's requirements don't need Fate beyond Exceptional Friendship - you just need to plan ahead a bit. You can get to 12 Hedonist via either the University or the Empress' Court, and 12 Austere can be gotten through the Iron Republic. The only other requirements are 40 Hell Renown and (soon) 40 Church Renown.
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Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.
Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
7/29/2017
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Wait, how can you hit Hedonist 12 through the Court? Hopefully whatever option will be accessible to un-banished people once Failbetter adds the ability to return to Court.
Now that I think a bit more you can also get high enough Hedonist with a rare success during the FotER.
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Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
7/29/2017
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The threesome option in the Court romances - you can sell your Memento of Passion afterwards to do it all over again.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro
Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.
Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
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