SirKorran
Posts: 45
7/15/2017
|
My fellow Londoners and aspired Zee-captains, I have been curious about an aspect that you likely have expertise in:
How does one navigate in the Neath?
As you are well aware, surface voyageurs use stars and magnetic field of our Mother Earth to deduct their whereabouts.
However, as falsestats likely change their position with each glimfall (which seem to happen so often no one would even attempt to draw starmap of Neath's, emm, "sky"), relying on those will be a highly unwise choice.
Now, moving to magnetic matters. On one hand, the Neath is still kinda on/in the Earth, so using compass does not sound impossible. Moreover, Sunless Sea has direct mentioning of captains using binnacles for navigation.
[spoiler] "Now and then, rocky fragments fall from the roof of the Neath. The decks of older ships are pocked with scars. The sound is one no land-lubber knows, and no zailor will ever forget. This one has smashed the glass of a deck-binnacle. "Ill omen!" one sailor cries. "The god in the roof! Storm is angry!"[/spoiler]
However, single compass won't give you any accurate estimation of your location unless you have very sophisticated equipment measuring your velocity and bearing, adjusting to effects of currents and probably tide (if close to land). Plus you need a person who would be educated enough to read and transcript this data into position on the map. And still the result will contain a fair degree of error.
So the question that I am struggling to answer is - what helped seasoned and salted Zee-captains to navigate unraveling waters of the Neath? Savvy and instinct? Legends and knowledge? Trained bats? Blessings of the Salt?
What say you?
--
Truly and honorably yours,
SirKorran
Curiosity killed a lot of cats. And counting...
|
|
|
0
link
|
Tystefy
Posts: 450
7/15/2017
|
If you stay by the coast, you just need a boat.
If you zail away from the coast, all you can use is luck
Maybe skill can help, but not by much.
--
Will sometimes return to post absurdity.
|
|
|
0
link
|
Optimatum
Posts: 3666
7/15/2017
|
Trained zee-bats are used for scouting in Sunless Sea, so that may be part of it.
Really though I'm not convinced that zailors can navigate, story-wise. Locations shift frequently so mapping isn't reliable. Any ships are best off staying near enough their home harbor that, when lost, they can find their way back with bats. Journeying around the whole Unterzee like in SSea is a recipe for disaster unless you're really, really lucky. Or a protagonist.
Also you might want to delete that duplicate thread.
edited by Optimatum on 7/15/2017
--
Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
 Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
|
|
|
+1
link
|
Teaspoon
Posts: 866
7/15/2017
|
It is possible to do a coffee run without ever leaving that part of the map which stays consistently still.
I imagine this, as much as anything, makes the coffee trade happen - Port Carnelian is probably the only port captains can find some days.
--
Truth lies at the bottom of a well.
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Alt%20Ern
|
|
|
0
link
|
Anchovies
Posts: 421
7/15/2017
|
Given the use of zee-bats for navigation, I'd say it's about tracking landmarks and setting headings relative to those landmarks. That could explain why two places of very different distance from London could take the same time to reach. Sunless Sea puts Hunter's Keep at just outside London, and it takes the same time to reach as the more distant Port Carnelian because Hunter's Keep is much easier to miss if your heading is off by a few degrees.
--
Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God — but to create Him.
—Sir Arthur C Clarke
Lionel Anchovies. Character on indefinite hiatus.
|
|
|
0
link
|
Harlocke
Posts: 506
7/15/2017
|
The zee is flat, without waves or wind (usually), so in many cases you could probably just set a direction and assuming you go straight you'll reach your destination, assuming you know which way it is from London.
The admirality also has lighthouse ships and illuminated beacons placed throughout the zee to serve as route markers and help captains get their bearings.
--
I welcome social actions, and can visit your salon as an author.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Harlocke
|
|
|
0
link
|
Teaspoon
Posts: 866
7/15/2017
|
the lighthouse ships move, and they are not individually identified
you would be very confused trying to set a course by them.
--
Truth lies at the bottom of a well.
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Alt%20Ern
|
|
|
0
link
|
SirKorran
Posts: 45
7/15/2017
|
Harlocke wrote:
The zee is flat, without waves or wind (usually)...
Still, currents are still present. And not to forget killing winds. Once you are of course, it's just pure luck.
I actually like the idea of using trained bats as a long-range locator. If you know, where and how far nearest land is, it gives you decent understanding of where you may be.
Also, placing tracks with buoys (like Hanzel and Gretchen) may be a nice idea for friendly ports like Carnelian Coast.
But how would one find Pentecost or Khanate?
--
Truly and honorably yours,
SirKorran
Curiosity killed a lot of cats. And counting...
|
|
|
+1
link
|
Teaspoon
Posts: 866
7/15/2017
|
Wanna bet that the Khanate moves every so often just to confuse foreigners?
Cause I would do that if I had a massive boat-city. Just zail away and set up somewhere else.
--
Truth lies at the bottom of a well.
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Alt%20Ern
|
|
|
+2
link
|
SirKorran
Posts: 45
7/15/2017
|
Teaspoon wrote:
Wanna bet that the Khanate moves every so often just to confuse foreigners?
Cause I would do that if I had a massive boat-city. Just zail away and set up somewhere else.
Pretty sure the do so.
But that only increases necessity of good navigation - you don't want to crash such magnificent city into some sudden rock  )
(Just imagined a headline in the Gazette - "Glorious Khanate found itself at the bottom of the Zee due to navigator's error. Never cost-cut on darkdrop coffee expenses!")
--
Truly and honorably yours,
SirKorran
Curiosity killed a lot of cats. And counting...
|
|
|
+1
link
|
Optimatum
Posts: 3666
7/15/2017
|
Is the Khanate a floating city? The Shadow obviously is but the main part doesn't give me that vibe.
--
Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
|
|
|
+2
link
|
Nigel Overstreet
Posts: 1220
7/16/2017
|
Things don't stay in the same place in the Neath because the physical laws of the universe are impermanent and inconsistent without Judgement. It's why time isn't constant either. It's why I have an alien tentacle and can jump through mirrors into a dream world.
So even if cities didn't float and the navigation was consistent, things would still not be in the same place every time.
--
The Romantic Egotist: Most Hedonistic Man in All of Fallen London
Are you or someone you know Overgoated? Please, let me know!
Cider Club
|
|
|
+1
link
|
Anchovies
Posts: 421
7/16/2017
|
It seems beyond unlikely that the Khanate's palaces are entirely buoyant, unless there's some Dawn's Law-level power keeping them afloat. Based on the weird arrangement of the place, my guess is that they started with a chain of islands on which the large palaces sit, and expanded with artificial floating extensions which have long since overgrown the original islands' coastlines.
I have not played Zubmariner. Are islands impassible when submerged? Is it possible to travel below some or all of the New Khanate?
edited by Anchovies on 7/16/2017
--
Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God — but to create Him.
—Sir Arthur C Clarke
Lionel Anchovies. Character on indefinite hiatus.
|
|
|
0
link
|
Pumpkinhead
Posts: 516
7/16/2017
|
All I know is that I wish zailing in sunless sea was as d---ed easy as it is in Fallen London. I don't have to worry about any of that navigation stuff, or particularly threatening zee beasts, or fuel and supplies, or permadeath...
...but then I suppose there wouldn't be much of a game left.
--
McGunn/Bsymstad is on the slow boat, waiting to see if he can find out what death is. (I'm done with London for now. Thanks for everything!)
Amanda Albright is a *spoiler* now, like she always wanted.
|
|
|
0
link
|
Optimatum
Posts: 3666
7/16/2017
|
Anchovies wrote:
I have not played Zubmariner. Are islands impassible when submerged? Is it possible to travel below some or all of the New Khanate?
You can go below floating islands like Khan's Shadow or the Chelonate, but pretty sure you can't go below the Khanate itself.
--
Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
|
|
|
+1
link
|
A Dimness
Posts: 613
7/16/2017
|
Well, as stated in sidebar fluff, the False-Star constellations are used as points of reference within London, so possibly they serve the same purpose out on the Zee.
What if there's general constellations that are always found near certain islands? That'd make it easy enough to find your way to the general vicinity of your destination, but still quite difficult to pinpoint the actual target itself.
Also, bear in mind that we don't know the actual size of the Unterzee. "A giant saltwater lake" doesn't give a good sense of scale. It might be a really big lake, in which case it should be easy enough to find locations in the Southern Archipelago based on travel time and speed... or the Unterzee might be an actual sea, in which case getting from London to the Khanate would be like finding needles in a haystack.
Which is the point, anyways. If the Unterzee was easy to navigate, there wouldn't be so much mystery to it to begin with.
edited by Infinity Simulacrum on 7/16/2017
--
A truth so strange it can only be lied into existence
|
|
|
0
link
|
Teaspoon
Posts: 866
7/16/2017
|
For a lark, I've tried estimations based on what kind of voyages you might be able to make with a five-crew steamship.
All that the research has turned up is that a five-crew steamship is a preposterous concept (to all accounts it would take more than that just to stroke the engines even if they never do anything else), so...mystery.
--
Truth lies at the bottom of a well.
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Alt%20Ern
|
|
|
+1
link
|