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Debate implementation Messages in this topic - RSS

Hallabalooga
Hallabalooga
Posts: 6

7/5/2017
Am I the only one who is annoyed at it? Seriously no other thing has annoyed me as much as this one. It's like it is someone's first time designing browser based interaction between people.

Wait multiple times for the opponent to answer? Can't start another debate until opponent claims his prize, even though you already claimed yours? Like, what?!

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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Hallabalooga
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gronostaj
gronostaj
Posts: 403

7/5/2017
God yes. I really do appreciate the tiny little roleplays one can have during the course of several actions but man does it take forever to finish a debate. Not to mention when you and your opponent are in different time zones. A patience test like this might be...... mildly irking but acceptable, if not for the time limit. As it is, it's close to infuriating. And you need to play several debates just to cash in for one point of Influencing, too.

A good fix would be either to allow multiple debates at once, or simplify the process into less steps, ie. iniviting an opponent, opponent accepts, you make your decisions (all three steps, whether you fight fair or not, whether you make a demagogue argument or call names etc. at once), they make their choices, and resolution is presented. Or just, you know. A K&C type of gameplay, only with verbal murder instead of murder murder.

--
Gronostaj (pl. Ermine), a decadent duellist of mysterious and indistinct gender. Seeker. Willing to die- but not of boredom. Open to all social actions, including the harmful ones.
Soft-Spoken Surgeon, a doctor who owes an onerous debt. Professor of medicine at the University by day, at criminal employ by night. Open to all non-harmful social actions.
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Gillsing
Gillsing
Posts: 1203

7/5/2017
The debates are already K&C type of gameplay, only it's the Moon League instead of the Iron League. Though with how slow it might take to level up from debates, it makes sense that the cap is only five steps away. Should keep most people from hitting the cap too quickly.
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gronostaj
gronostaj
Posts: 403

7/5/2017
Gillsing wrote:
The debates are already K&C type of gameplay, only it's the Moon League instead of the Iron League. Though with how slow it might take to level up from debates, it makes sense that the cap is only five steps away. Should keep most people from hitting the cap too quickly.



ah, true, I was thinking of the Iron League. It's been a while since i played K&C but I seem to remember the outcome was somewhat more random than the debates? At any rate, K&C didn't have time restriction, so I suppose it felt way less..... hm, frustrating to wait for your oppontent.

--
Gronostaj (pl. Ermine), a decadent duellist of mysterious and indistinct gender. Seeker. Willing to die- but not of boredom. Open to all social actions, including the harmful ones.
Soft-Spoken Surgeon, a doctor who owes an onerous debt. Professor of medicine at the University by day, at criminal employ by night. Open to all non-harmful social actions.
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Catherine Raymond
Catherine Raymond
Posts: 2441

7/5/2017
I agree; debates are slow, because they require more than one exchange of social actions with another player. Even if you stick with players you know are involved and prepared to check back to advance the debate, people's schedules differ so there can still be a significant wait. Other than that, I'm enjoying the mechanic--but the time factor is a significant drawback for a one-week event.

To give an idea of the level of frustration involved to people who may not have tried it yet; my alt and I have completed only one debate apiece since Debating became a thing on Monday (and I could spend significant time on both days because of the Fourth of July holiday here in the US).
edited by cathyr19355 on 7/5/2017

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Cathy Raymond
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355

Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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lady ciel
lady ciel
Posts: 2546

7/5/2017
Debating does include the most frustrating part of K&C Moonleague. As someone who can check into FL several times a day it can be especially frustrating when you reply within a few minutes and then have to wait again. But other people have different schedules and are in different time zones I do understand that not everyone plays at the same pace.

I just wish that more people in the find a debate partner had added their time zones smile

--
ciel

Sorry RL means I am not a very active player at the moment. No social actions unless you are prepared to wait and definitely no sparring or other mult-action things.

No Calling Cards or boxed cats please. Will take dupes on the affluent photographers. Other social invitations welcome. Parabolan Kittens usually available, send me an in-game social action saying you want one and I will get one to you as soon as possible.

storynexus name - reveurciel
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Johnny Felix
Johnny Felix
Posts: 180

7/5/2017
I managed to finish three debates until now, two of them with people I never interacted with before the election. I was sceptical too because the possible delays, but it seems I had luck with my dance partners. Sure, you could streamline the process, but it's not been frustrating to me yet.

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https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Johnny%20Felix
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gronostaj
gronostaj
Posts: 403

7/5/2017
lady ciel wrote:
I just wish that more people in the find a debate partner had added their time zones smile



Unfortunately this helps, but doesn't entirely fix the problem- some people only check FL once or twice a day, so you still can be locked into say, 6-8 hours of waiting even with someone in the same time-zone. Personally I had three extra quick, fun debates (two of which were set up via tumblr, so i just messaged the opponent there to let them know the ball is in their court), one that ended up in draw and I got no winnings from it (not sure if bug or feature), and one that stun-locked me for like 16 hours.

So, a little mixed experience for me. Still fun, though, imperfections of the system aside.

--
Gronostaj (pl. Ermine), a decadent duellist of mysterious and indistinct gender. Seeker. Willing to die- but not of boredom. Open to all social actions, including the harmful ones.
Soft-Spoken Surgeon, a doctor who owes an onerous debt. Professor of medicine at the University by day, at criminal employ by night. Open to all non-harmful social actions.
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reaperOscuroCore
reaperOscuroCore
Posts: 41

7/6/2017
Good day,

Hear hear to the lamentors of debatorial fun! Lets us do all actions in one lump! Let those actions be more interesting than the most basic of rock paper scissor! There again, perhaps a certain authenticity was being seeked, what with political debates being so...yawn...thrilling?

Sleepily,

Arden

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Arden Terraward -a gentleperson on the search for...EVERYTHING. http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Arden%20Terraward
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 Saklad
Saklad
Posts: 528

7/6/2017
What would really speed up Debates is Failbetter rejiggering the social actions to allow multiple options to be chosen at once.


  • 1. Invitation to debate is sent.
    2. Invitation is accepted, and recipient chooses preparation and debate tactic.
    3. Sender chooses preparation and debate tactic.

    That would only require one stretch of waiting for each player, and it would still prevent players from wasting their time on rejected invitations.

  • edited by Saklad5 on 7/6/2017

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    Saklad5, a man of many talents
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    Lady Sapho Byron
    Lady Sapho Byron
    Posts: 766

    7/6/2017
    I very much like the concept of debating other players, but, like other here, I strongly dislike the implementation.

    -Since one can only be involved in one debate at a time, and as one's debate partner may be slow to respond, and as it takes several debates before debate rewards can be converted into election influence, the real time needed for debating to produce substantive results is excessive.

    -I find the rock-paper-scissor mechanic of debating to be of drool-inducing uninterestingness.

    Should debates return next year, I would be ecstatic to see:

    -Being able to participate in an unlimited number of debates at any given time.

    -A mechanic with which one can respond to a specific debate "attack" from one's opponent by countering with one's own strength or hitting one's opponent's (perceived) weakness, as in actual debates. Ideally, something about the characters themselves would be involved such as Persuasiveness, BD and/or R, election career level, etc.

    --
    http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Lady%20Sapho%20L%20Byron
    Fighting the Menace of Corsetry Since 1892.
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    Teaspoon
    Teaspoon
    Posts: 866

    7/6/2017
    I would like to agree with all these things.

    I would also like to say that as a player who generally prefers to tackle problems solo (the NPC spouse, raising Notability without using Free Evenings), I am slightly put out that debates are the *only* way to get to the top level of influence in this election. All right, debates are about people, but NPCs are people too! Sort of.

    --
    Truth lies at the bottom of a well.

    https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Alt%20Ern
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    Tom Davidson
    Tom Davidson
    Posts: 101

    7/7/2017
    I've currently managed to only complete two debates, canceled one after waiting 28 hours for a response, and am currently stuck in two that have been going for 14 hours each. Is anyone out there (who isn't a Dauntless supporter) willing to debate QUICKLY?

    --
    http://www.fallenlondon.com/Profile/Black%20Tom
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    Jolanda Swan
    Jolanda Swan
    Posts: 1692

    7/7/2017
    Tom, there is a thread for that, http://community.failbettergames.com/topic24542-find-debate-partners.aspx
    It helped me a lot, but ugh, the whole debate mechanic is plain frustrating. And stressful - waiting for another three times, wondering how to cancel without being rude, bein unable to accept... the social context is fun (though nothing stops people from sending you blanks) but I do not like my game depending on another's timetable.
    edited by Jolanda Swan on 7/7/2017

    --
    Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
    http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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