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Official Coalition Polling Messages in this topic - RSS

Does an official coalition between the Dauntless Temperance Campaigner and Implacable Detective ingame sound good to you?

I'm a Feducci supporter, so no. This is directly against my interests.:15
I'm a Feducci supporter, but this sounds like a good time! Bring it!:16
I'm a Campaigner/Detective supporter, and I don't believe my candidate should compromise by working with another, even if you think they're compatible.:15
I'm a Detective/Campaigner supporter, and I'd love to see these two ladies take on London's ills!:41
I'm undecided. If Failbetter thinks it could work, I don't object, but I'm not sure it's a good idea.:8
Isaac Zienfried
Isaac Zienfried
Posts: 364

7/3/2017
Oh boy more polls yay we all love these things right boys and girls

Okay, so this is probably a pipe dream, but talk of a coalition between the Dauntless Temperance Campaigner and the Implacable Detective is afoot. Mostly it's been a few suggesting that one side fold into the other in order to beat Feducci, and no one's gaining much traction there. My thinking is that an unofficial coalition will never, ever work. The solution?

Well, the only way I can see it happening is if Failbetter dramatically breaks from the usual election formula and has the two candidates join together within the actual game, combining platforms to make this a more interesting election. It does make some sense: their platforms are not mutually exclusive, and the two candidates have different areas of focus. If they combine the resources of their backers, they may actually be able to achieve a good amount of both parties' goals. Imagine rooting out corruption in the Constabulary while also ensuring the poor and outcast have less reason to turn to crime. If that doesn't appeal to you, imagine what might happen if the two ever disagree... juicy drama could await!

I don't know how FB has set up outlines and plans for the end of the election so far, so I realize this may be asking quite a bit of them, and I by no means expect it to happen. I just want to gauge the general community interest in such an abrupt change in the election's proceedings. Perhaps if it's a popular idea, FB will consider it, but if it's just not in the cards, I'm not going to complain.

...Okay, yes I will, because complaining is what I do, but it won't be heartfelt.

--
Isaac Zienfried, 'The Vacillating Belligerent.'
A gentleman of complicated loyalties, complicated morality, and complicated goals.
But really, it's hard to keep things simple down here!
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Hark DeGaul
Hark DeGaul
Posts: 208

7/3/2017
The proposition is interesting, but I feel it might be a tad last minute. I'm not sure how Failbetter could implement a coalition mechanic and how it would count pro-coalition and uncompromising voters. Beyond that there's the very real problem that Feducci supporters may feel aggreived if they lost simply because the other two candidates fused together.

--
The Dawn-Eyed Optician: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Hark%20DeGaul

That Vicar Who Ruined the Royal Wedding for Everyone (including himself): http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Hebediah%20Fix

The Dreaded Relative: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Your%20Aunt
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Isaac Zienfried
Isaac Zienfried
Posts: 364

7/3/2017
That pretty much sums up all the shortcomings, yeah. As I said, I'm aware it's a long shot, but as another user pointed out, we've got nothing to lose. Worst-case scenario, FB just goes "haha, no" and Feducci supporters act haughty and smug... which they were gonna do anyways. I'm already prepared for that.

--
Isaac Zienfried, 'The Vacillating Belligerent.'
A gentleman of complicated loyalties, complicated morality, and complicated goals.
But really, it's hard to keep things simple down here!
+2 link
mezzocarattere
mezzocarattere
Posts: 7

7/3/2017
I doubt this is something that would be feasible, but speaking as someone with a Feducci-supporting character, it would add a certain spice to the proceedings. I get the sense from the boards and from the flavor text that the race isn't particularly close right now, and anything to tighten it up would (IMO) make for a better story.

That said, voting is voting, game design is game design, and complicated things are complicated.

--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/chivioletta
Charmer, hedonist, Game-player, devil-friend, privately talented. All positive social interactions welcomed; negatives please carry some flavor text to make up for the sting.
+2 link
Isaac Zienfried
Isaac Zienfried
Posts: 364

7/3/2017
Well, about an hour later, a good majority of the people want to see it. Problem is that we haven't had a genius come in with some brilliant plan to make it work, as I'd hoped.

My current thoughts are that if FB wanted to humor us, they'd have an ingame announcement-storylet that the DTC and ID decided "let's work together" and allow those with the quality of supporting one of them to either go along with it, or switch to Feducci (while losing half of the campaign progress or no is the question).

--
Isaac Zienfried, 'The Vacillating Belligerent.'
A gentleman of complicated loyalties, complicated morality, and complicated goals.
But really, it's hard to keep things simple down here!
+3 link
WinterIV
WinterIV
Posts: 68

7/3/2017
I agree it is not feasible and no one should go into this sort of idea assuming that it is. Please no go to FB and demand this sort of thing. They are busy enough as it is. This is just a nice, fun idea for us to participate here in the forum. If it spreads and people enjoy it, maybe someone will give it a second glance, but that is in no way expected.

But seriously, imagine a buddy cop show with Dauntless and the Detective (which is a great name actually).

The Detective, brooding outside of a tenament with a line of fearsome coppers behind her. "We have rooted Larcenous Barry out lads," She would say, drawing up her face into a scowl, "But they are barricaded in there. No way in without loosing good men."

Moving aside a sergeant four times her size, Dauntless would step up and take the Megaphone. "Barry Helms! I know you are in there. If you don't come out this instant we are calling your mum. She invited me around for tea and she is very disappointed in you!"

Finally cracking a smile, the Detective nods. "We always get our man."
edited by WinterIV on 7/3/2017
+12 link
Isaac Zienfried
Isaac Zienfried
Posts: 364

7/3/2017
WinterIV wrote:
I agree it is not feasible and no one should go into this sort of idea assuming that it is. Please no go to FB and demand this sort of thing. They are busy enough as it is. This is just a nice, fun idea for us to participate here in the forum. If it spreads and people enjoy it, maybe someone will give it a second glance, but that is in no way expected.

That was my intention. It's a fun idea I'm really fond of, and I'd be ecstatic if someone made it work, but we should all be realistic.

I also wanted to see if the rest of the forums also thought it'd be great.

WinterIV wrote:
Dauntless and the Detective

Okay, I do really want this team-up to be a thing even if Feducci wins. Let them start an agency together to help the abused and downtrodden while also investigating cases of abuse, villainy, and corruption.
edited by Isaac Zienfried on 7/3/2017

--
Isaac Zienfried, 'The Vacillating Belligerent.'
A gentleman of complicated loyalties, complicated morality, and complicated goals.
But really, it's hard to keep things simple down here!
+4 link
Edward Warren
Edward Warren
Posts: 120

7/3/2017
Not as a voter but as a citizen, the poll at the top of the thread is in poor taste. The first option in the poll is basically a deception to make the idea sound better. "Oh no! Don't band together or I'll lose!" It's basically asking for a reverse endorsement of a pipe dream. I also noticed you didn't include a section for people to simply say undecided, you either say "undecided, but Failbetter do it anyway!" or again lop the dissenters in with Feducci, "the enemy".

The idea is entirely unfeasible. The candidates are running on different platforms to address different issues, each perceptive has its own pros and cons. An Implacable Detective supporter can still like the occasional spoonful of Honey or a little tipple at the local pub, and a DTC supporter can have less reputable ties. But forcing one candidate to bend the knee for the other invalidates the wishes of a vast swathe of voters whose ideals are not compatible with each other.

Then there's the logistics and gameplay issues for such a change. Do we simply merge all the existing votes together? Is that fair to the players who've up until now had their votes reset when they switched sides? Or do we reset everyone to zero, giving Feducci a huge lead?

If, as a consolation to the loser, the winning mayoral candidate offered some position in the administration to the other candidates as an olive branch to tackle a specific issue would be one thing, but to suddenly change mid-election is unfair and unfeasible.

However, if two major characters wanted to team up and run during the next election I wouldn't say no, but that's another issue entirely.

--
WHAT IS BELOW CANNOT ESCAPE WHAT IS ABOVE
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Catherine Raymond
Catherine Raymond
Posts: 2433

7/3/2017
With regard to an (imaginary) real world Fallen London, such a coalition might well be a dream come true. To wed the legendary efficiency of the Campaigner with the nose for crime and practical knowledge of conditions on the streets possessed by the Detective.

--
Cathy Raymond
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355

Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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Isaac Zienfried
Isaac Zienfried
Posts: 364

7/3/2017
Edward Warren wrote:
"Oh no! Don't band together or I'll lose!"

If we're being entirely honest, that's how I'm reading this entire post of yours, but perhaps that's also influenced by previous posts.

Edward Warren wrote:
you didn't include a section for people to simply say undecided, you either say "undecided, but Failbetter do it anyway!"

An excellent example of how personal views can influence even the facts. That's clearly read as "I won't object if FB thinks it's a good idea," meaning that it's for people who are undecided due to mechanical issues but would be okay if they were to be made to work. If you simply don't agree with it, there are options for that, no matter what you may think of the phrasing.

Edward Warren wrote:
The idea is entirely unfeasible. The candidates are running on different platforms to address different issues, each perceptive has its own pros and cons. An Implacable Detective supporter can still like the occasional spoonful of Honey or a little tipple at the local pub,

Temperance =/= prohibition, as we've said before. Multiple times.

Edward Warren wrote:
Then there's the logistics and gameplay issues for such a change.

That's actually part of what we're here to discuss. Bringing up issues and tossing out ideas and solutions that are half-serious, but ultimately still lighthearted in the face of the obvious fact it's a long shot and unlikely to ever be a thing.

Don't be so angry, friend. That's my shtick.

--
Isaac Zienfried, 'The Vacillating Belligerent.'
A gentleman of complicated loyalties, complicated morality, and complicated goals.
But really, it's hard to keep things simple down here!
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crazyroosterman
crazyroosterman
Posts: 187

7/3/2017
I find it really interesting that the majority of my side have voted in favour of this regardless.

personally I believe our glorious leader him self would approve of this winning in a landslide like he is now would likely just bore him!.
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Anchovies
Anchovies
Posts: 421

7/3/2017
I'm surprised that I haven't seen any mention of a runoff election. After another week or so, remove the least-supported candidate from the running and allot a few days for players to swap to one of the remaining candidates, with the usual career/influence penalties.

--
Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God — but to create Him.
—Sir Arthur C Clarke

Lionel Anchovies. Character on indefinite hiatus.
+1 link
Teaspoon
Teaspoon
Posts: 866

7/3/2017
Of course, Failbetter has mentioned more than once that the hard-core forum players are only a small minority of the player population. Even if everyone on the forum agreed that a coalition government would be the best and coolest thing ever, the rest of the players (having never heard of this) might be Quite Put Out about it.

--
Truth lies at the bottom of a well.

https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Alt%20Ern
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Isaac Zienfried
Isaac Zienfried
Posts: 364

7/3/2017
Anchovies wrote:
I'm surprised that I haven't seen any mention of a runoff election. After another week or so, remove the least-supported candidate from the running and allot a few days for players to swap to one of the remaining candidates, with the usual career/influence penalties.

Problem is that they'd need to write up new sets of stuff for flash lays and investigations to uncover.

Teaspoon wrote:
Even if everyone on the forum agreed that a coalition government would be the best and coolest thing ever, the rest of the players (having never heard of this) might be Quite Put Out about it.

A fair point, but I don't see too many being overly upset. I may be wrong, though.

--
Isaac Zienfried, 'The Vacillating Belligerent.'
A gentleman of complicated loyalties, complicated morality, and complicated goals.
But really, it's hard to keep things simple down here!
0 link
Magrok
Magrok
Posts: 6

7/3/2017
Given the understanding that logistics and community management puts the likelihood of this happening at about zero, it is still a good idea and a good discussion to have.

Asking supporters from any given candidate to throw behind another is never going to get anywhere - those who staunchly support their candidate wouldn't hear of it, and those who are less strongly-tied would also care less about making sure a specific candidate loses. Given a winner-take-all approach, it's just how humans react.

So you rephrase it in a manner that removes that restriction: now, there is no situation in which switching your vote hurts your side, so that whole loss-aversion part of the brain doesn't light up. That lets people actually discuss the possibility instead of dismissing it.

And for all the reasons stated elsewhere, this would be a fantastic idea. What is the one major failing of the Dauntless Temperance Campaign, based on last week's investigations? Her fervor has outstripped her experience, and she has no idea what to do with all the contraband building up. Well, Constables such as those supporting the Detective would have plenty of experience with that manner of disposal, and the Detective herself can organize the entire movement to ensure everyone is in a role to do the most good - no one lacking for passion, and each attacking their assigned job with that same intensity, knowing and trusting that it's best for the Cause even if they can't see how it ties in.
Meanwhile... well, I wish not to presume the intentions and abilities of the Implacable Detective's campaign and her supporters, as my viewpoint is outside-looking-in. But I would expect that same passion and belief which drives the Dauntless Temperance campaign is lacking in one centered around logical thought. Logic is great and vital, but it will never motivate others in the way that belief and emotion do.

And from a Doylist perspective? It's all right there! Reason vs. Emotion as a central theme of any clashes between them. Conflicting priorities for who to help first and to what extent. All the leadership arguments and tug-of-war of a Roman Consulship. Negative side-effects born not from pettiness, but slightly-conflicting ideologies - after all, the similarities of their general platforms are only going to magnify the granular differences into Big Issues. This is Fallen London - it will not and cannot work out perfectly. A couple literary bones thrown towards kindness, perhaps, but the central tone of the franchise requires things to go wrong. That will make great stories!

This election event has already brought me into registering for the forums and taking part in social events. A premium story trying to handle a major rift may well get me to spend money on this game (though I probably will anyway eventually). It's not going to fix everything, and if we're lucky, it may end bittersweet, a valiant attempt with everything going for it that like a Greek tragedy runs afoul of human nature. But perhaps if the attempt is made, and [the player] tries hard enough, maybe all will be well.

--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Magrok
+2 link
Magrok
Magrok
Posts: 6

7/3/2017
I forgot to even get into Feducci, but suffice that there would be juicy story opportunities there, too.

--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Magrok
0 link
Isaac Zienfried
Isaac Zienfried
Posts: 364

7/3/2017
I accidentally marked that post as the Accepted Answer, so apologies for everyone's eyes. I don't know how to undo it.

Magrok wrote:
And from a Doylist perspective? It's all right there! Reason vs. Emotion as a central theme of any clashes between them.

We can walk our road together
If our goals are all the same
We can run alone and free
If we pursue a different aim

Let the truth of Love be lighted
Let the love of Truth shine clear
Sensibility
Armed with sense and liberty
With the Heart and Mind united
In a single perfect sphere
edited by Isaac Zienfried on 7/3/2017

--
Isaac Zienfried, 'The Vacillating Belligerent.'
A gentleman of complicated loyalties, complicated morality, and complicated goals.
But really, it's hard to keep things simple down here!
0 link
WinterIV
WinterIV
Posts: 68

7/3/2017
To those who come here ready to gnash their teeth over mechanics or wether or not this would even be fair. Please do not worry, this will most likely not happen. Everyone knows this.

We are just entertaining an idea that we find enjoyable in a hope to bring a little joy to the imagination. If you like the idea, great. Please join us. If not, that isn't a problem either. Our dream does you no harm.
+1 link
Isaac Zienfried
Isaac Zienfried
Posts: 364

7/4/2017
Wow, we've got a nice voting turnout in favor of this idea. Now I'm tempted to write Dauntless and Detective fanfiction.

Also I figured out how to remove the accepted answer highlight. Make my own post the accepted answer and then delete it. I'm such a moron.

--
Isaac Zienfried, 'The Vacillating Belligerent.'
A gentleman of complicated loyalties, complicated morality, and complicated goals.
But really, it's hard to keep things simple down here!
+1 link
A Dimness
A Dimness
Posts: 613

7/4/2017
Looking at it from an in-story point of view, I'm not sure how the two ladies would agree to it.
They might fuse their campaigns, but there's still only one who can be mayor.

From what I've garnered, the detective hates losing. With a passion. She hates it so much, in fact, that she made a deal with the sneks so she wouldn't lose an insignificant case.
On the other hand, the Dauntless Temperance Campaigner is, well, dauntless. She's the most likely to be willing to step aside to let the ID take the lead, but the likeliness is still rather small.
That aside, it does make sense that constables would faction themselves with the high society and bohemians, so I'm all for it.

--
A truth so strange it can only be lied into existence
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