Anchovies
Posts: 421
7/2/2017
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I really, really don't understand this particular mechanic. Sure, a mildly subtle action might make an already subtle person only marginally more subtle, but isn't that why leveling a quality requires more change points each time? I've advocated for a subtle revolution at least a score of times, but somehow continuing to stress the importance of subtlety doesn't mean anything. And the same goes for continuing to evade my aunt, too. I get capping nearly all quirk-increasing actions at 10, to establish quirks higher than 10 as special accomplishments, but the caps at 4 or 6 for certain actions are just nonsensical.
It's even worse with non-quirk qualities, as I learned recently to much chagrin. I had one point of Connected: Masters, earned from providing for Mr Wines's revels. I was exiled to Venderbight, and cashed in that point to chop my scandal down a bit, with the intention of earning it back with another revel. Before I did so, however, I went to Polythreme to pursue the Jack case. I picked the fate-locked option to solve both sides of the matter, and was warped back to London. One meeting with Mr Spices later, I had gained a point of Connected: Masters... which means that I wouldn't be able to earn more by providing for another revel. So I did a favor for Mr Wines, asked for a favor in return, did a favor for Mr Spices, and am somehow unable to subsequently earn Mr Wines's good graces?
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Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God — but to create Him.
—Sir Arthur C Clarke
Lionel Anchovies. Character on indefinite hiatus.
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
7/3/2017
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I just wish it was a little harder to accidentally reduce quirks. If quirk changes can have ceilings, why not give them floors too? If I'm an incredibly hedonistic character, surely I'm far beyond the point where doing one very slightly austere thing would make me drop a level. At that point becoming less hedonistic should take effort.
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Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
 Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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MidnightVoyager
Posts: 858
7/3/2017
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Color me still peeved that the latest exceptional story forced me to lose either one quirk or another, so no matter what I'd gain no quirk and lose part of one. I had 15 in both.
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Midnight Voyager - A blood-cousin to predators. Collector of beasts. Affably mad.
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Tystefy
Posts: 450
7/3/2017
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And what's the deal with us being able to get every quirk at ten? Truly, we are the enigma here.
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Will sometimes return to post absurdity.
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Teaspoon
Posts: 866
7/3/2017
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I would settle just for being *told* that something is about to drop a level.
Those dream cards...
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Truth lies at the bottom of a well.
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Alt%20Ern
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Tystefy
Posts: 450
7/2/2017
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To be fair, Connected: The Masters is really, really hard to raise above 2.
After it becomes 3, you can raise It up to 6 via the carnival in a 10% roll, with a 50% of decreasing C:TM by 1 cp. You can do this up to 6.
After 6... good luck, boi.
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Will sometimes return to post absurdity.
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Tystefy
Posts: 450
7/2/2017
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Picture it like this: certain opportunity cards require specific stats, yea? For example, you can go to a Coffee Café when your persuasion is between 89 and 119.
Completing actions within that card will raise your persuasion. When your persuasion is 120, you cannot access that card anymore.
Since you can't access it anymore, you have to find a different way to increase your stat.
Usually, opportunities will open up to you ONLY after you are locked out of the previous one.
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Will sometimes return to post absurdity.
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Gillsing
Posts: 1203
7/2/2017
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It's completely understandable to me how minor quirkish actions no longer increase a quirk beyond a higher level. But it's sad how minor counter-quirkish actions still lower a high quirk, as high quirks then mainly become limitations rather than opportunities to deviate further. To retain high quirks of any sort one basically has to be quite Austere in one's choices to activities. No Hedonistic flinging oneself into any type of activity, because then high quirks get lowered little by little, as they gain nothing from small actions, but still lose from other small actions.
Tystefy wrote:
To be fair, Connected: The Masters is really, really hard to raise above 2.
After it becomes 3, you can raise It up to 6 via the carnival in a 10% roll, with a 50% of decreasing C:TM by 1 cp. You can do this up to 6.
After 6... good luck, boi.
It's not quite that hard. It can be costly if you do it through Mr Pages, or take a long time if you do it through Dr Schlomo. But it's not like you have to beat those incredibly bad carnival odds you described just to get above 3. And every Christmas there's plenty of Connected: The Masters of the Bazaar to be had during the 12 days of Mr Sacks.
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Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1789
7/3/2017
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I have to agree with Gillsing, especially when it comes to the Autere/Hedonist quirks.
No matter how bohemian the life i live, the fact that I go to the church wine tastings keeps reducing hedonist. And the Polite Invitation also does that, when I pick between the octagenarian and the delightful young thing. It makes no narrative sense, and it is mechanically annoying. Given that both quirks are useful (in a way other quirks are not) makes it doubly frustrating.
I also agree that if there is a ceiling, there should be a floor. If more wine does not make me more hedonistic, why does a stroll with the clergy makes me less so? It forces you to eschew role-playing just to maintain your quirks. I get capping at 15, sure, but I do not get losing them indefinitely for no other reason that being sociable.
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Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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Anchovies
Posts: 421
7/3/2017
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Nigel Overstreet wrote:
Repeating them does not improve their advocacy. I nonetheless feel entirely justified in making this thread. After some thought, though, I do see the logic in your explanation. If you're used to staying in bed all day and start swinging from chandeliers, you'll become more daring. If you're used to swinging from chandeliers and continue doing so, you'll become slightly more daring. If you're used to swinging from chandeliers and you rescue a princess, you'll become much more daring. But if you're used to rescuing princesses, swinging on chandeliers doesn't mean much.
My concern is that this system strongly encourages thorough metagaming, in that a player who maxes out on low-cap actions can subsequently benefit from a high-cap action, while a player who ends up taking a high-cap action early on will be unable to benefit from the low-cap actions which they would have benefited from only moments prior. That becomes an issue when high-cap actions are non-repeatable, such as with my Connected: Masters snafu. If I'd taken care of a revels and immediately gone to meet with Mr Spices, I'd have gotten 2 points of C:M. However, meeting with Mr Spices prevented me from increasing C:M via revels even if I'd already finished providing for the revels and simply not collected my reward yet. I wouldn't exactly call the Jack case "repeatable", because playing it again with the same choices would cost 30 Fate and hundreds of actions.
I'll elaborate by drawing a comparison to Renown. A player can meet with Urchins 5 times and then spend 15 favors through a Rookery Password for a total 30 cp of Renown, but using the Rookery Password first would lock the player out of the Carnival option. That may make sense in the game world, but it encourages metagaming in that players are rewarded for knowing the correct order in which to take certain actions. The Carnival options have notes on them which give appropriate forewarning, but that's not the case for many other mechanically comparable situations.
So I suppose it's not so much the staggered caps as it is the inability to repeat actions which change uncommon staggered-cap actions, like Connected: Masters or quirks. Perhaps there could be something linked to Time the Healer; if encouraging subtle revolution provides +1 cp above 5 and up to 10 but only does so once per week, it's not exactly possible to grind the quality.
edit: as for Quirk floors, I'm not sure how I feel. Lionel Anchovies just got Steadfast 11, and if I want to keep it there then I need to avoid doing non-steadfast things; I am encouraged for having my steadfast character make steadfast decisions, which I think is pretty cool. The game is rather inconsistent and unclear in when and how quirks are affected, though, so it could be nice to have more instances of forewarning.
edited by Anchovies on 7/3/2017
--
Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God — but to create Him.
—Sir Arthur C Clarke
Lionel Anchovies. Character on indefinite hiatus.
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xKiv
Posts: 846
7/3/2017
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Uh, this again.
The limited amount of pushing quirks up, but unlimited exposure to (sometimes essentially unavoidable - hello, exceptional stories!) quirk drains.
The "doing the same mix of actions in different order" thing.
The metagaming of having an easy way to grind one quirk without losing another, so I have to *avoid* options that raise that quirk elsewhere, or risk losing other quirks (i.e. if I can get magnanimous to 15 easily, I will actually be behaving like a heartless and ruthless **s*ard all the time).
The unclearness of whether quirks are supposed to be measuring our characters' inner workings, or their reputations.
The mostly uselessness.
The surprise when actions change different quirks than would seem indicated by their description (both the branch text before choosing and the result text).
...
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https://www.fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xKiv - a witchful, percussive, dangermous and shadowry scholar of coexplodence, hopsidirean, and walker of fallen kitties.
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xKiv
Posts: 846
7/3/2017
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Anchovies wrote:
Lionel Anchovies just got Steadfast 11, and if I want to keep it there then I need to avoid doing non-steadfast things; I am encouraged for having my steadfast character make steadfast decisions, which I think is pretty cool.
Except you are not encouraged to make steadfast decisions. Steadfast decisions will not do anything more for you.
You are encouraged to avoid decisions that somebody marked "anti-steadfast". Which, for this particular quirk, often makes sense ...
... but how about forceful and subtle? I can be both. I can easily perform more of both than necessary for maxing either on its own ... and end up zero in both, as if I did neither. That doesn't make sense. Being able to behave in two different ways doesn't make me unable to behave in either of the two. Being known for doing two different things doesn't make people forget both.
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https://www.fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xKiv - a witchful, percussive, dangermous and shadowry scholar of coexplodence, hopsidirean, and walker of fallen kitties.
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Jeremy Avalon
Posts: 345
7/3/2017
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I am also in favor of quirk floors.
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How we must glow; yes, I bet we look like snow.
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Nigel Overstreet
Posts: 1220
7/3/2017
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On one hand I like the idea of knowing whether a choice is going to affect one of my rapidly shrinking Quirks. On the other, I don't like the idea of players needing to know the outcome of every choice before they make it. I'm sure there's a happy medium. I just don't know what it is.
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The Romantic Egotist: Most Hedonistic Man in All of Fallen London
Are you or someone you know Overgoated? Please, let me know!
Cider Club
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