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A game of survival, trade and exploration in the universe of Fallen London

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ultrapowerpie
ultrapowerpie
Posts: 35

6/26/2017
So with Sunless Skies coming out, and us finding out what's beyond the Gates.... Do we have more of the lore of Sunless Sea compiled somewhere for newer players? (Warning Spoilers!)

Do we have what Frostfound really is? Who really is Storm/Stone/Salt is? What really is our name, and why we needed to forget? What is the Sun's relation to this? Do we know more about the sea more sunless? (which totally exists thanks to submanirner). What does the dawn Machine actually do? What exactly is the Fallen King's relations with everyone in the sea? And what is a Pig Rock? What is the Red Science, exactly? (I know we had an exceptional quest that kinda dealt with it, but it seemed vague). What is the correspondence?

I know we've had some things in FL that also touched on some of this (mostly exceptional stories) so if that's off limits then please ignore, however I've always loved the lore of this place, and I think it'd be great if we had, somewhere, some of it compiled just as a reference material before we launch ourselves into the skies!

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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/ultrapowerpie
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/William%20Reaper
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Jenna%20Reaper

Also, I am indeed interested in someone pming me about the Ambition:Enigma. I need it for my Mr. Eaten's character, Jenna Reaper, who is always looking to betray/accept them for people!
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Anchovies
Anchovies
Posts: 421

8/3/2017
The Dawn Machine is best understood as an emergent superintelligence. It may have started as a device which was to be entirely human-directed, such as a printing press, but as the project moved forward the Machine advanced to a typewriter, then a digital word processor, then a computer. Once it reached a certain level of development, it started improving itself. The resulting feedback loop carried the Dawn Machine far beyond what humans are capable of understanding, let alone controlling. It also happens to be a reality-warping star-god, and when you give the strong AI access to all of your resources, you are no longer the one in charge. This can be bad, as Harlan Ellison envisioned in "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream", or it can be good, as Isaac Asimov imagined in "The Last Question". Is the Machine broken, or is it perfect? Is it insane, or is it wise beyond reckoning? Will it enslave us, or set us free? Perhaps it shall rule without human virtues: compassion, empathy, forgiveness. Perhaps it shall rule without human vices: pride, greed, cruelty.

It's a delightfully science-fiction aspect of the Fallen London world. I have a deep personal fascinated with the thought of humanity being surpassed by its own creations, and so I find the Dawn Machine a truly compelling subject. I hope my perspective helped shed some light on it! (heh)

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Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God — but to create Him.
—Sir Arthur C Clarke

Lionel Anchovies. Character on indefinite hiatus.
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Anchovies
Anchovies
Posts: 421

8/3/2017
it doesn't seem to have any exponentially increasing growth in knowledge, intelligence, or power. It wouldn't be stuck in the bottom left not doing much of significance otherwise.
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch, even for a Judgement. The Machine requires tons upon tons of material supplies (including scarce commodities e.g. Sphinx-Stone), and for particular works it also needs enough relevant information. There's also suggestions in Sunless Sea that the Dawn Machine requires occasional human sacrifices, or something roughly equivalent. Are they consumed and utterly destroyed? Or is something of a person preserved in the larger workings of the Machine's consciousness? We can only shrug, and feed another seven youths and maidens into the Dawn Machine's burning heart. Remember to smile! :P

When properly supplied, the Dawn Machine wields truly awesome power. The clearest demonstration of its potential is Dawn's Law, by which the Machine rewrites the natural laws imposed by the light of ordinary Judgements.

1880's technology isn't really sophisticated enough to allow for anything which computes; transistors aren't really existent yet, so it's not a computer or artificial intelligence by any traditional definition.
It's artificial and it's an intelligence. That's good enough for me. The New Sequence doesn't need transistors, because they awakened a mechanical star-god.

It also seems to be to a very high degree baleful and mentally damaged, so it's at best a malfunctioning intelligence.
Okay. I really, really don't understand. Where are people getting this idea that the Machine is evil or insane? Is the notion just being regurgitated from one of the old lore blogs, or is it supported by actual game content? The workings of a cosmic machine-mind would be so unlike those of a human consciousness that to judge it sane or insane, good or evil, is an exercise in futility. The Dawn Machine helps the New Sequence, and the New Sequence helps the Dawn Machine. All shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well.

The Dawn Machine is authoritarian. Unlike literally every authoritarian ruler in human history, the Dawn Machine is actually fit to rule. Tyrants through all the ages have used false claims of divine authority as an excuse for rule through violence. But the Dawn Machine is actually a god; truly superior to humanity, and better suited to wield its powers than any human would be.

I'd also rather say a lack of either human virtues or vices makes something dreadfully dull and untrustworthy.
Consider the Throne of Hours. From the Sunless Skies kickstarter page:
The Empress Victoria reigns from her Throne of Hours, exerting authority over time itself. Her favourites are rewarded with freshly-minted months to prolong their lives, while those who displease her are condemned to the Midnight Cells, where every minute lasts a day, and no one leaves until their hair is white and their bones are bent.
Any human with that sort of power would be a rapacious tyrant, let alone a human raised from birth to believe themselves superior to their kin. The Dawn Machine is devoid of the animal emotions and impulses which so often inspire humans to wickedness.
edited by Anchovies on 8/3/2017

--
Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God — but to create Him.
—Sir Arthur C Clarke

Lionel Anchovies. Character on indefinite hiatus.
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Optimatum
Optimatum
Posts: 3540

8/3/2017
Anchovies wrote:
It also seems to be to a very high degree baleful and mentally damaged, so it's at best a malfunctioning intelligence.
Okay. I really, really don't understand. Where are people getting this idea that the Machine is evil or insane? Is the notion just being regurgitated from one of the old lore blogs, or is it supported by actual game content? The workings of a cosmic machine-mind would be so unlike those of a human consciousness that to judge it sane or insane, good or evil, is an exercise in futility.

"Worm-fates crawl on your skin. The Machine is sick. Its hatred threads your veins. Time will die. The Chain will end."

Seems pretty conclusive to me.

Anchovies wrote:
The Dawn Machine is authoritarian. Unlike literally every authoritarian ruler in human history, the Dawn Machine is actually fit to rule. Tyrants through all the ages have used false claims of divine authority as an excuse for rule through violence. But the Dawn Machine is actually a god; truly superior to humanity, and better suited to wield its powers than any human would be. [...] The Dawn Machine is devoid of the animal emotions and impulses which so often inspire humans to wickedness.

The Dawn Machine isn't actually a god. It's a machine made to replicate a god, and machines can break. That's also if you think that the Judgements actually are fit to rule - for example, the Revolutionaries certainly don't agree. And if you assume that the Dawn Machine is successfully emulating Judgements, it definitely can have "animal emotions and impulses" as you put it. This whole setting started with our sun deciding to illegally have a kid then falling in love with a different Judgement.

--
Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.

Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!

PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Optimatum
Optimatum
Posts: 3540

7/1/2017
It's saltwater.

--
Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.

Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!

PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Teaspoon
Teaspoon
Posts: 866

7/1/2017
Thank you.

--
Truth lies at the bottom of a well.

https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Alt%20Ern
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Anchovies
Anchovies
Posts: 421

8/3/2017
Each of these questions should really have their own thread.

Correspondence is a language of symbols which, in sets of seven, function like magic spells. Sufficiently powerful entities use the stuff with little or no effort. Humans are just shy of being able to use Correspondence, such that trying to do so is costly, dangerous, and rarely if ever successful.

Frostfound is the White's "hall of poisoned crystal". The entity which appears when a Judgement's Egg is opened in Frostfound could be what emerged from the egg, or it could be a projection of the White receiving the egg's contents.

Stone is the Mountain of Light, the heart of the Elder Continent and the source of the vitality which permeates those lands.

Storm is a thunder-dragon stuck in the Neath-Roof. "Dragon" here means a powerful cosmic entity.

Salt is a cosmic entity which gave up its Name (i.e. unique identity) and traveled east. The Name-Which-Burns is the Correspondence which Salt used to obliterate its Name to become "the traveler", and a captain who seeks the Name-Which-Burns follows in Salt's footsteps and becomes the traveler as well. Important point: the captain does not become Salt. Both Salt and the captain have given up their old selves to become the traveler. Discuss here.

The Hungry Monarch is the Fathomking. Evidence: both have a connection to Shapelings, a position as ruler, and limited control over Storm. Discuss here.

--
Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God — but to create Him.
—Sir Arthur C Clarke

Lionel Anchovies. Character on indefinite hiatus.
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