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Election 1895: The Implacable Detective Messages in this topic - RSS

crazyroosterman
crazyroosterman
Posts: 187

6/22/2017
well even though I really need to get more details (things like what each candidate are actually planning to do in the city things like that) I can probably say that zorgan won't be voting for the detective he hates the masters and the constables are their enforcers.
well I know who zorgan won't be voting for considering his deep entwinement with the criminal underworld and the revolutionaries' and his deep hatred of the masters there's no way he could vote for her.
as for the other 2? he could vote for either of them really hed be more likely to vote for feducci though.
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crazyroosterman
crazyroosterman
Posts: 187

6/22/2017
though things could change as things progress.
which by the way I have to ask how have the previous elections worked mechanically?.
this is both mine and zorgans first election and we have only the vaguest ideas of what's going to happen?.
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An Individual
An Individual
Posts: 589

6/22/2017
I appear to have my candidate and it has nothing to do with the fact that we're both members of the same secret science club. Nope. Nothing to see here. Move along.

In all seriousness, unless The Dauntless Temperance Campaigner ascribes to the militant form of temperance I don't see much fun to be had there. Mr Wines will see to that. And I just don't get Feducci's popularity among the player base. I had more fun with the Implacable Detective than the Black Ribbon in the early days so that settles that.

What's that? You think I should examine their politics? I'll have you know that I voted for Jenny because she was a monster hunting ninja nun and I don't intend to change my criteria this year. I'll take wacky science detective over a boring old duelist/spy any day.

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dov
dov
Posts: 2580

6/22/2017
crazyroosterman wrote:
zorgan won't be voting for the detective he hates the masters and the constables are their enforcers.

It's the Special Constables who are the Masters' enforcers. The regular Constables are a different group, and serve the city (i.e. deal with crime), not the Masters. There's actually rivalry between the two groups.

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Gonen
Gonen
Posts: 818

6/22/2017
Oh...
I thought I read it as "The Addled Detective". THAT'S a figure I would like to see more. (Horrible choice for a mayor, but I would vote him instantly).

Well, guess this figure gets my vote instead.

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Kaijyuu
Kaijyuu
Posts: 1047

6/22/2017
I like the implacable detective but I don't like her policies. Some people should stay out of politics.


I can safely say I think every single one of these people will make a horrible mayor. I really will just vote for which one I think will give docks favors.

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Sara Hysaro
Sara Hysaro
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Posts: 4514

6/22/2017
Ooooh. Barring the possibility of a more compelling election narrative from the other two I do believe I have my candidate.

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Sir Joseph Marlen
Sir Joseph Marlen
Posts: 575

6/22/2017
I believe the issue faced thus far is that, other than a short campaign statement and a generalized vagueness towards what they're upholding, we don't know much of their policies and what they stand for. Feducci is a wild card who serves multiple factions for his benefit and promises a fair game when he's notorious for bending the rules (aka being an immortal in duels to the death with mortals). The Campaigner's quotes of "For everybody!" leave an open-ended answer towards who she's wanting to aid in her correction of London for her vision: the poor? high society? the non-humans? We also don't have a clear image of how she'll enforce these social changes; early temperance has a correlation with progressive movements of the time and could very well trickle down to her ideals, but most of her actions prior have shown the more conservative and radical aspects of the movement (i.e. pressuring abstinence for its own sake rather than preaching moderation or working to solve the issues that lead people into their vices to begin with). The Implacable Detective is separate from the elitist Special Constables or even the corrupt of the Constable forces, serving a search for truth and knowledge through her individual cases and her joint efforts with the Dilmun Club, but there is no indication of what injustices she wishes to tackle or how she plans to tackle these issues.

Simply put, we really don't know much about our candidates and their promises as of now. I suspect we'll have a better image of their stances once the election begins and we are able to investigate them thoroughly, but until then we can only speculate on the further details of their goals. Personally, I trust the Detective's pursuit of justice and her individualistic character to lead London right, so she has my vote for the moment. Even still, I'll be keeping an open eye on the candidates in case the Campaigner proves herself a more progressive and moderate figure than she lets on, or Feducci shows himself to pull away from his two-faced tendencies (however unlikely the latter may be).

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Kukapetal
Kukapetal
Posts: 1454

6/22/2017
She's totally going to win. Feducci has too many skeletons in his closet and Whatsherface is too bland. I doubt it'll even be much of a contest.

Hopefully, after her win, Cheeryman will need me to comfort him :P
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dov
dov
Posts: 2580

6/22/2017
Kukapetal wrote:
Feducci has too many skeletons in his closet.

Probably literally.

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menaulon
menaulon
Posts: 116

6/22/2017
The general vagueness of the platforms aside, I believe I certainly have my candidate. Considering the absolute disdain Masters (and most of the London's powerful) show for the law, anyone seriously interested in fighting injustice will have to cross them and will help the Londoners in the process. Campaigner is a possible choice, but I don't think you can really achieve temperance through law without stopping people who literally indulge in others' suffering against London's existing policies.
Plus, I am definitely interested in what more will be revealed about the Implacable Detective. Doesn't hurt that I am both a follower of her method and definitely wasn't sponsored by her to join any secret clubs of any sort.

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crazyroosterman
crazyroosterman
Posts: 187

6/22/2017
dov wrote:
crazyroosterman wrote:
zorgan won't be voting for the detective he hates the masters and the constables are their enforcers.

It's the Special Constables who are the Masters' enforcers. The regular Constables are a different group, and serve the city (i.e. deal with crime), not the Masters. There's actually rivalry between the two groups.

ahh I wasn't aware in fact I forgot the special constables existed since I've never really come across mention of them in game and only know of them from the forums her strengthening the police force would still hurt the cause so unless he finds something crazy out (like lets say her being outright apposed to the masters for instance) I still cant imagine him voting for her.
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Anne Auclair
Anne Auclair
Posts: 2221

6/22/2017
Kaigen wrote:
Anne Auclair wrote:
Just who does she think needs a firmer hand?
That's the interesting ambiguity in her statement. Is she saying that the Constabulary needs more power and authority, or that it needs reform, or both?

I don't see much ambiguity in her mass support among the police. When you're Closest to the Constables the action that ends said closeness is reporting an officers corruption to the Gazette. Break the code of silence and you're no longer considered "one of them." Since they clearly consider the Implacable Detective to be one of them, she obviously maintains the Constables' code of silence.

So, again, the question is who needs a firmer hand with the law? Which groups are either on the wrong side of the law or often operating in the shadows? Criminals, Revolutionaries, the Great Game, the Urchins,the Dockers, unlicensed soul dealers, and the more lively Tomb Colonists (i.e. the Mercies and those like them). The Black Ribbon also seems pretty sketchy, legally speaking, what with its underground duels, killing and trespassing :P

The Constables explicitly protect "the rich, the powerful, and the Masters," as they're the groups that either make the law or for whom the law is designed to protect (when one of the Masters favorites break the law, the Masters just use their vast influence with the courts to get them off, while the rich can hire Baseborn and Fowlingpiece). The Implacable Detective is very much a part of this establishment - she is a regular at Mr. Wines' Revels after all. So I don't think she will be challenging the interests of the Powers That Be - it's not what the Constables do and it's not what the Implacable Detective does.

Last year we had the Bohemian paired off against the Bishop with the Contrarian as a third force. This year I think the dualism is between Feducci and the Implacable Detective, with the Dauntless Temperance Campaigner as the third force.

shylarah wrote:
The Campaigner has not declared in favor of rats, Clay Men, Rubberies, or any other of Alys's eclectic associations, so she really doesn't see a good reason to back her.

Early days, it's early days. There are hints ("For everyone!") that she might do so when the election gets underway - we'll have to wait and see.

dov wrote:
Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook wrote:
dov wrote:
True historically, but in Fallen London gender issues are not what they were in 19th century Britain.


They're better than they could be, but, well, just look at the widely-accepted theories of the Saturnine Physician, and the resistance to the Benthic lady's interest in entering government service. Things still have a long way to go.

There's always room for improvement.

But consider that in Fallen London, no one blinks at the fact that women can be scholars (some of them the best in their fields), ship captains, politicians, adventurers, police, military, etc.

People do blink, that's why the Bentic Lady has such trouble entering government service and why women still don't have the vote.
edited by Anne Auclair on 6/22/2017

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BillyCosmos!
BillyCosmos!
Posts: 35

6/22/2017
I can't help but think of the violence employed by the temperance movement used to crush those who dared to defy their will. Tyranny in the name of decency; a horrid hypocrisy. I could no more vote for her than I could a spy for not-particularly-friendly foreign power. No matter how enjoyable their company, I shudder to think how ill served the city, nay, the Empire, would be to have such a person at its heart.
To what terrible conclusion might an otherwise banal audience betwixt the mayor and the Empress arrive? Let us not discover the answer, and instead pray the detective will have only to solve such mysteries that shall arise while we forget those we shall have avoided.

That settled, has anyone seen my coat? It seems to have absconded yet again, and with my monocle this time. Trapped in the top left inside pocket like queer soul trapped in a devil's flask. It's named Timothy Gulliard, though refuses to answer to it so don't call with the expectation of success. Should you come across Timothy, do not try to corner it. I cannot stress this enough - Timothy is incredibly rude and will goad you to violence. Being my third favorite coat, I do not wish it harmed. Just wave a hangar at it until it shambles off in the direction of the Royal Beth.
Oh, I'm wearing my monocle. Never mind.

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dov
dov
Posts: 2580

6/23/2017
Anne Auclair wrote:
dov wrote:

There's always room for improvement.

But consider that in Fallen London, no one blinks at the fact that women can be scholars (some of them the best in their fields), ship captains, politicians, adventurers, police, military, etc.

People do blink, that's why the Bentic Lady has such trouble entering government service and why women still don't have the vote.

There's some institutional it societal sexism, but it's the exception rather than the rule. There are numerous examples for women in all the roles I've mentioned above, and they are all considered normal.

And of course women have the vote. We're having an official election right now and everyone can participate. Have you noticed something which suggests only male characters can vote?

It's not just voting, but also getting voted into office. We have a woman Mayor. Two of the three next candidates are women. There are women parlamentarians.

Sure, historically, at the time this takes place, women couldn't vote. In the setting of the game, this is not an issue.

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Anne Auclair
Anne Auclair
Posts: 2221

6/23/2017
dov wrote:
Anne Auclair wrote:
dov wrote:

There's always room for improvement.

But consider that in Fallen London, no one blinks at the fact that women can be scholars (some of them the best in their fields), ship captains, politicians, adventurers, police, military, etc.

People do blink, that's why the Bentic Lady has such trouble entering government service and why women still don't have the vote.

There's some institutional it societal sexism, but it's the exception rather than the rule. There are numerous examples for women in all the roles I've mentioned above, and they are all considered normal.

And of course women have the vote. We're having an official election right now and everyone can participate. Have you noticed something which suggests only male characters can vote?

It's not just voting, but also getting voted into office. We have a woman Mayor. Two of the three next candidates are women. There are women parlamentarians.

Sure, historically, at the time this takes place, women couldn't vote. In the setting of the game, this is not an issue.

You hear murmurs of discontent about these 'Benthic Ladies' and their struggle for power. If it goes on like this, they say, women will be voting...

You bump into the Barbed Wit at a literary salon. A Saturnine Physician is speaking to her. "But of course, these unnatural urges - the wish to have the vote and to enter education - this affliction is caused by vapours arising from the womb."

You'll notice that when you take part in a campaign you gather support for your candidate - you don't necessarily vote yourself.

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loredeluxe
loredeluxe
Posts: 119

6/23/2017
You know, I was actually going to support the Implacable Detective since I thought her regime could bring some morality and sense of honor and justice to Fallen London, but then I got the Constables renown 40 item. I don't think many people fully realize the depths of depravity the Constables are willing to stoop to and that they may genuinely be on the most evil factions in the game. Beware spoilers below for those that haven't gotten the renown 40 item yet for these monsters.

[spoiler]The Constables renown 40 item is called The Place Where They Bury the Bodies. It's a shoe slot item because it refers to a pair of boots found on the slow boat drifting on a silent river, where we all go when we die in the Neath. The player finds a pair of boots sitting alone on the boat and asks the Boatman who the belong to. He doesn't answer but another passenger does. This person says that the owner of the boots would always come onto the boat with a companion and then push them into the river to some unknown but undoubtedly horrific eternal torment. This individual plays chess with the Boatman and eventually returns to London to repeat the process. This unknown person has done this countless times but eventually loses their mind and jumps overboard. The player takes the boots as the renown item and the Boatman cryptically says that the boots have time and time again been to "The Place Where They Bury the Bodies."

The text doesn't mention any names but the fact that it is a Constables item combined with context we know from other stories makes it obvious whats really going on. The Constables are well known for their brutality with criminals and even will torture them. Apparently they have a way to silence people permanently. Some unknown constable buries a victim his compatriots made disappear in a specific Place, commits suicide to follow this victim because death is rarely permanent in the Neath, and pushed them into the silent river to silence them permanently. This process has been done God knows how many times, but the really scary thing is when you consider who the victims might be. Criminals and Revolutionaries are the obvious targets though they still don't deserve such horrible fates, but remember the Ministry of Public Decency and the Neddy Men. The Masters have sicced the Constables on dissidents before. There's no telling how many of the victims were innocent people who spoke out against the tyranny pervading Fallen London.

At this point, you may be asking what this has to do with the Implacable Detective. It has been shown that she absolutely follows the Constable's Code of Silence and is no doubt a high ranking member in the Constabulary. Her position in the Dilmun Club shows that she is most interested in immortality, thus she is perfectly capable of being selfish deep down. My point is that I have no doubt that she knew these beyond horrible atrocities were being committed and may have even been approved by her considering how important she is to their faction and how deep her connections run in London. This regime of law and order she wants to bring to London honestly fills me with absolute horror when I consider what she and the Constables are actually capable of. I know most of you have already decided you'll be voting for her because she's the coolest candidate, but I implore you not to let her into power. Feducci, an immortal spy from a foreign power with a passion for bloody death combat, may genuinely be the more morally sound candidate here.[/spoiler]
edited by loredeluxe on 6/23/2017
edited by loredeluxe on 6/23/2017
edited by loredeluxe on 6/23/2017
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dov
dov
Posts: 2580

6/23/2017
Anne Auclair wrote:
You hear murmurs of discontent about these 'Benthic Ladies' and their struggle for power. If it goes on like this, they say, women will be voting...

Obviously, the people murmuring this are behind the times, and didn't notice that women already vote.

Anne Auclair wrote:
You bump into the Barbed Wit at a literary salon. A Saturnine Physician is speaking to her. "But of course, these unnatural urges - the wish to have the vote and to enter education - this affliction is caused by vapours arising from the womb."

Obviously, this particular Physician is sexist. Also notice that he's talking about women's wishes to "vote and enter education". And we *know* that women are already prominent in Fallen London's academic circles (renowned scholars, heads of departments at the university, etc.). So basically, this is a sexists rant about desires that women have *already achieved*, voting included.

(or possibly he's ranting about women's rights in general in the world - on the Surface women don't have the right to vote yet. But in Fallen London this is not an issue).

Anne Auclair wrote:
You'll notice that when you take part in a campaign you gather support for your candidate - you don't necessarily vote yourself.
Technically, true. But women can get elected in this world (obviously). Historically this came after granting the right to vote. SO we're already different enough from real world events.


FBG have created a world which is set in late 19th Century but (generally) appeals to our modern moralities so it can be inclusive fir a wide (21th Century) audience base. There are bound to be some anachronisms. And while gender issues exist, they are not even close to what there where historically at the time.
edited by dov on 6/23/2017

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Anne Auclair
Anne Auclair
Posts: 2221

6/23/2017
That's a lot of words arguing that two very straightforward sentences shouldn't be read in a straightforward manner.

Are there any statements that women in Fallen London do have the vote? If Fallen London women can vote it seems very strange that there are at least two statements that women do not have the vote, but no statements that they do. Also, in the United States women could run for office before they had the right to vote, so crazy things like that can happen.
edited by Anne Auclair on 6/23/2017

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dov
dov
Posts: 2580

6/23/2017
Anne Auclair wrote:
That's a lot of words arguing that two very straightforward sentences shouldn't be read in a straightforward manner.

How about this: You quoted someone complaining that women desire things like education and the vote. We know that women in Fallen London can get higher education (and be held as esteemed experts and academics). So what was that guy ranting about? Things that women already have or not?

Anne Auclair wrote:
Are there any statements that women in Fallen London do have the vote? If Fallen London women can vote it seems very strange that there are at least two statements that women do not have the vote, but no statements that they do.

As I've noted, one of those two quotes contradicts itself. For me, it's part of the anachronisms of Fallen London. Women's Voting Rights were a big thing in that time period, so it makes sense some characters reference this. But Fallen London specifically as a setting is much more liberal and progressive on issues of gender (and race, and sexuality).

As I've mentioned, it's possible these references to voting rights refer to social struggles still ongoing on the Surface.

Anne Auclair wrote:
Also, in the United States women could run for office before they had the right to vote, so crazy things like that can happen.

They can. (though I'm not sure that's how it happened in Britain).


Let's just agree to disagree.

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