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Election 1895: The Dauntless Temperance Campaigner Messages in this topic - RSS

loredeluxe
loredeluxe
Posts: 119

6/23/2017
As the Constables renown 40 item reveals, they are actually pretty damn evil. Considering Feducci is a bloodthirsty immortal social Darwinist, I think the Temperance Campaigner has won another supporter.
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Sir Joseph Marlen
Sir Joseph Marlen
Posts: 575

6/23/2017
Lady Sapho Byron wrote:
Sir Joseph Marlen wrote:

To be fair, the Special Constables are the ones who mainly serve the Masters and their games. The normal Constables serve the law (as in London and her laws) and regularly come into conflict with the Special Constables over their service.


True ... but I've always understood the non-special Constables to be agents of the Masters at least as much as they are agents of London. For example:

Connected: Constables: Acquaintance with the burly, serious gentlemen who uphold the law of the Bazaar.

Court and Cell: the Constables: The Constables protect the rich, the powerful, and the Masters. But sometimes, too, they protect the wretched poor.

I posted something about this in the general election thread, but the summary of my point was that all factions have their goods and evils and the Constables are more than just authoritarian thugs. I personally tend to lean towards supporting a candidate on their character and the good they can do more than the mixed groups behind them.
edited by Sir Joseph Marlen on 6/23/2017

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Anne Auclair
Anne Auclair
Posts: 2221

6/23/2017
Sir Joseph Marlen wrote:
I posted something about this in the general election thread, but the summary of my point was that all factions have their goods and evils and the Constables are more than just authoritarian thugs. I personally tend to lean towards supporting a candidate on their character and the good they can do more than the mixed groups behind them.

The thing about the Detective is that she's not simply being supported by the Constables. She's a prominent and highly renowned member of their faction. She's on their faction card and she helps them investigate you when you acquire suspicion. Now, when players get close to the Constables they have to adhere to certain rules, chief among them the rule of Constables' silence, which prohibits snitching on your fellow officers, no matter how corrupt or awful their deeds. Breaking that rule, even for a very good cause, gets you kicked out of the Constables' little brotherhood. They take this silence very seriously.

Now, the Implacable Detective is by all accounts an incredibly intelligent and observant lady, as well as an implacable investigator who has been around for many, many years. She's the founder of the Implacable Method, where you "consider all possibilities, eliminate all errors, and isolate the truth." So, given her lengthy membership in the Constable faction, how does she not know their darker secrets? Players less renowned then her can discover them. The most straightforward answer is that the Constables' rule of silence is in effect. If she knows and hasn't done anything about the killings, then she's a part of the cover-up. If she doesn't know about the killings, it's only because she doesn't want to know, which means she knows one shouldn't look too closely into certain permanent disappearances.

So, this issue does really touch upon the Detective's character.
edited by Anne Auclair on 6/23/2017

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suinicide
suinicide
Posts: 2450

6/23/2017
My understanding was that the implacable detective was more of a private eye, who was constantly hired by the constables because she's that good. Explains the business cards at least.

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Anne Auclair
Anne Auclair
Posts: 2221

6/23/2017
suinicide wrote:
My understanding was that the implacable detective was more of a private eye, who was constantly hired by the constables because she's that good. Explains the business cards at least.


Players can become 'Closest to the Constables' and gain high renown with them without being formal members of London's police services. The same rules no doubt apply to the Detective.

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suinicide
suinicide
Posts: 2450

6/23/2017
Anne Auclair wrote:
suinicide wrote:
My understanding was that the implacable detective was more of a private eye, who was constantly hired by the constables because she's that good. Explains the business cards at least.


Players can become 'Closest to the Constables' and gain high renown with them without being formal members of London's police services. The same rules no doubt apply to the Detective.


I'm not saying she isn't close to them, I'm saying she isn't one of them. That means for all we know she has played little to no part in their crimes, only being guilty of not investigating them. And she has not taken an oath not to turn in the worse parts of the constables. Stuff like that.

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Anne Auclair
Anne Auclair
Posts: 2221

6/23/2017
suinicide wrote:
Anne Auclair wrote:
suinicide wrote:
My understanding was that the implacable detective was more of a private eye, who was constantly hired by the constables because she's that good. Explains the business cards at least.


Players can become 'Closest to the Constables' and gain high renown with them without being formal members of London's police services. The same rules no doubt apply to the Detective.


I'm not saying she isn't close to them, I'm saying she isn't one of them. That means for all we know she has played little to no part in their crimes, only being guilty of not investigating them. And she has not taken an oath not to turn in the worse parts of the constables. Stuff like that.

When players become Closest to the Constables they are bound by the rule of silence as effectively as those who are part of the formal police force.

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suinicide
suinicide
Posts: 2450

6/23/2017
Anne Auclair wrote:
suinicide wrote:
Anne Auclair wrote:
suinicide wrote:
My understanding was that the implacable detective was more of a private eye, who was constantly hired by the constables because she's that good. Explains the business cards at least.


Players can become 'Closest to the Constables' and gain high renown with them without being formal members of London's police services. The same rules no doubt apply to the Detective.


I'm not saying she isn't close to them, I'm saying she isn't one of them. That means for all we know she has played little to no part in their crimes, only being guilty of not investigating them. And she has not taken an oath not to turn in the worse parts of the constables. Stuff like that.

When players become Closest to the Constables they are bound by the rule of silence as effectively as those who are part of the formal police force.


But do we know if she has taken the oath? Do we know if she's defending the masters/the rich? Do we know she's corrupt and planning on letting the corruption fester within the constables?

No we do not. These are the beliefs of some of her followers. You are leaping to the worst possible conclusion before their stances and issues have even been released. And for the temperance campaigner you basically argue that because it could mean moderation instead of elimination, that she is for moderation instead. Again assuming. If we took the worst possible assumption approach for her it means she guilty of breaking into bars/honey dens and destroying their legal products, likely assaulting the owners in the process..

Which is most likely nonsense, but it is somewhat annoying to see people leap to every terrible conclusion for people they don't like.
edited by suinicide on 6/23/2017

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Anne Auclair
Anne Auclair
Posts: 2221

6/23/2017
suinicide wrote:

But do we know if she has taken the oath? Do we know if she's defending the masters/the rich? Do we know she's corrupt and planning on letting the corruption fester within the constables?

We know that those who are Close to and in good standing with the Constables are expected to maintain their rule of silence:
Report a corrupt officer to the Gazette

It violates the Constables' code of silence. They'll not forgive you.
...
The Jolly Sergeant is as dirty as the drains under the Flowerdene rookery, but as far as the constabulary is concerned there was a line, and you crossed it. They no longer tip their helmets when you pass. There are no more "Evenin', Governor.' Their eyes are hard, and watchful.

A few days later you find a note under your door, anonymous and crudely penned. 'Bent or straight,' it reads, 'a copper does more good in a week than most do in a lifetime.'

We know that the Detective is very close and in good standing with the Constables and has been so for a long time. So, she's clearly keeping to that rule. We also know that she is, by all accounts, London's greatest detective. I think it would be very strange if she didn't suspect what was going on.

We also know that she is a regular at Mr Wines Revels, so she's close to the Masters, and the Constables are explicitly described on their card as the defenders of the Masters and the enforcers of the Bazaar's laws. So, based on the available information it seems pretty safe to assume she's on good terms with the Masters.


suinicide wrote:
And for the temperance campaigner you basically argue that because it could mean moderation instead of elimination, that she is for moderation instead.

I believe I said that since she is not proposing prohibition, her stanch is moderation by default, even though she'd personally favor everyone adopting total abstinence.

suinicide wrote:
Again assuming. If we took the worst possible assumption approach for her it means she guilty of breaking into bars/honey dens and destroying their legal products.

All the accounts of the Campaigner's activities involve protests, sign waving, and pamphlets. There aren't any accounts of Carrie Nation type shenanigans, though I wouldn't be surprised if those actually turned up at some point. There are accounts of the Constables code of silence however...it's on their faction card, with the Implacable Detective.
edited by Anne Auclair on 6/23/2017

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Lady Sapho Byron
Lady Sapho Byron
Posts: 786

6/23/2017
Sir Joseph Marlen wrote:
Lady Sapho Byron wrote:
Sir Joseph Marlen wrote:

To be fair, the Special Constables are the ones who mainly serve the Masters and their games. The normal Constables serve the law (as in London and her laws) and regularly come into conflict with the Special Constables over their service.


True ... but I've always understood the non-special Constables to be agents of the Masters at least as much as they are agents of London. For example:

Connected: Constables: Acquaintance with the burly, serious gentlemen who uphold the law of the Bazaar.

Court and Cell: the Constables: The Constables protect the rich, the powerful, and the Masters. But sometimes, too, they protect the wretched poor.

I posted something about this in the general election thread, but the summary of my point was that all factions have their goods and evils and the Constables are more than just authoritarian thugs. I personally tend to lean towards supporting a candidate on their character and the good they can do more than the mixed groups behind them.
edited by Sir Joseph Marlen on 6/23/2017


To be sure, there is variability of morality within Constabulary and consequently there is room to disagree about how much of a boon or bane they are to London and subsets of London's population. I take a somewhat dimmer view of them than you do, but I agree they are not without merits.

The Implacable Detective has not exhibited the flaws I attribute to her supporters ... but then again, if you lay down with Rubbery Men, you wake up smelling lemony (actually, I adore Rubbery Men, but I couldn't resist the metaphor).



  • edited by Lady Sapho Byron on 6/23/2017

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    Kaijyuu
    Kaijyuu
    Posts: 1047

    6/23/2017
    Rubbery Men are the best. Next year I hope there's a rubbery candidate; I'd vote for them in a heartbeat.

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    Hotshot Blackburn
    Hotshot Blackburn
    Posts: 110

    6/23/2017
    This whole election is a sham anyways (Never forget the words of the Contrarian!), so I might as well support a candidate who's actions are at least rooted in support of the working-class, even if Feducci is also tempting. It will depend on what kind of supporters she gathers though, and how much she goes against the Revolutionaries (since she can get pretty pissed off against the Council). I can't support her all the way in the latter, but if she's willing to play ball even a bit...
    edited by Hotshot Blackburn on 6/23/2017

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    Teaspoon
    Teaspoon
    Posts: 866

    6/23/2017
    I don't especially go in for wine or honey or souls, but those are all things that people have active reasons for liking. If the Temperance candidate wishes to get anywhere, she'll have to come up with something positive for people to rally about - something to get people really excited - as opposed to "let's just subtract stuff from the London scene".

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    Frederick Metzengerstein
    Frederick Metzengerstein
    Posts: 69

    6/24/2017
    Kaijyuu wrote:
    Rubbery Men are the best. Next year I hope there's a rubbery candidate; I'd vote for them in a heartbeat.
    The only good Rubbery Man is a Rubbery Man who has been fried and battered, wrapped in newspaper and served with tartare sauce.
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    Dungerson
    Dungerson
    Posts: 44

    6/24/2017
    Kaijyuu wrote:
    Rubbery Men are the best. Next year I hope there's a rubbery candidate; I'd vote for them in a heartbeat.


    That election will turn out to be the most contentious one yet, because the candidates are going to be an Adorable Rubbery Man, an Endearingly Clumsy Clay Man, and a Passionate Urchin.
    edited by Dungerson on 6/24/2017

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    Anne Auclair
    Anne Auclair
    Posts: 2221

    6/24/2017
    Frederick Metzengerstein wrote:
    Kaijyuu wrote:
    Rubbery Men are the best. Next year I hope there's a rubbery candidate; I'd vote for them in a heartbeat.
    The only good Rubbery Man is a Rubbery Man who has been fried and battered, wrapped in newspaper and served with tartare sauce.

    Where do you think Miss Plenty gets her Rubbery Lumps?

    Oh, that reminds me of another cause a lot of social reformers were involved in: food safety!

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    Hark DeGaul
    Hark DeGaul
    Posts: 208

    6/24/2017
    As someone whose dreams of a Bishop-led London were cruelly crushed last year I can tell you that (unless the third candidate is St Peter himself) I've found the candidate I'll be throwing my support behind.

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    Albert Dumpling
    Albert Dumpling
    Posts: 2

    6/25/2017
    What I want to say about the election... let the Detective investigating the case,there is nothing to do in the place of the mayor.Feducci generally tomb-colonnist,let him fight for his belt. But the lecture against alcohol is really useful.I vote definitely for Dauntless Temperance Campaigner.
    +1 link
    A Dimness
    A Dimness
    Posts: 613

    6/26/2017
    I support the Dauntless Temperance Campaigner fully, but let's not forget this quote you get when you rat out a Constable to the Gazette.
    "Bent or straight, a copper does more good in a week than most do in a lifetime."

    That being said, I'm throwing my lot in with the Dauntless Temperance Campaigner for various reasons.
    Firstly, it really appeals to me that she's such a naïve and fresh character without any explicit ties to criminals, politicians, or deep-running plots. Compared and contrasted to the Implacable Detective, who's very learned of ancient Neathy mysteries and Feducci, who IS an ancient Neathy mystery, the DTC is completely outmatched.
    Secondly, she seems to be one of the few characters that aren't completely jaded yet.
    Lastly, the Temperance Movement progressive and social ties are very appealing to my personal political opinionations, so there's that.

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    Akernis
    Akernis
    Posts: 260

    6/26/2017
    Dirty Secret of the Election Campaign - Investigating The Dauntless Temperance Campaigner

    An alluring young woman with vivid green eyes passed you on the street and slips an envelope into your pocket. "I will just leave this with you." She whispers with an infectious smile. Once home, you retrieve the envelope and find an account of an infiltration into the Dauntless Temperance Campaigner's campaign office:

    [spoiler]
    Her campaign operates with the bustling efficiency of a village fete. In your disguise, you are swiftly put to work organising leaflets into Teatime Friendly and In Need of a Stern Talking To categories, depending on which constituency they're to be distributed in. Hours pass, interrupted only by the sudden onset of the tea trolley, which thunders through the polished corridors like the fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse.

    Eventually, your piles of leaflets are neat enough to allow you to progress to more important tasks. While you are on the tea round, you overhear several choice morsels. Anarchists have been haunting the headquarters, seeking favours for 'old friendships not forgot.'

    http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Akernis?fromEchoId=11939963
    [/spoiler]
    edited by Akernis on 6/26/2017

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