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Election 1895: The Dauntless Temperance Campaigner Messages in this topic - RSS

Catherine Raymond
Catherine Raymond
Posts: 2641

6/21/2017
Anchovies wrote:
Temperance how? Surely she can't mean giving up alcohol, because it's the only thing down here that's safe to drink. Mr Wines doesn't bother dealing in water, and if the wells which can be found in-game are any indication, the Neath's groundwater is rather less than free of contamination. I don't know what it's like to drink the moon and/or Mr Eaten, and I want to keep it that way. What are we supposed to do, collect stalactite drippings and die of glim-cancer? Down here, fermented and slightly poisonous is about as safe as beverages can get. Yes, there's tea and coffee, but boiling requires heat, and heat requires fuel. Hauling around a stove to ensure you don't get horrid subterranean worms in your tea would be a terrible inconvenience, and more demand for fuel is more power to Hell and Mr Fires. Prisoner's honey is a much better target for temperance campaigners than wine. Sunlight as well, but that stuff's already quite prohibited.

She's already specified how she means Temperance. "Teatime for London". Though that raises other issues, as you describe. She may very well be against prisoner's honey too--we'll find out!

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Catherine Raymond
Catherine Raymond
Posts: 2641

6/21/2017
KostberaLili wrote:
Actually I don't know who she is... Since I only started playing FL earlier this year OTZ

I've been playing Fallen London since... it was called Echo Bazaar, and I *still* know next to nothing about her. In fact, I've already greatly increased my knowledge about her just from reading this thread.

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dov
dov
Posts: 2580

6/21/2017
shylarah wrote:
I agreed with Anne's recommendation of the Campaigner -- but on the idea that she'd favor rights for Clay Men, Rubberies, Rattus Faber, and so forth! This does not say anything about any of that! *shakes fist* WHERE'S MY EMANCIPATION CAMPAIGN, MISSY?!

But why expect a campaign of emancipation? This is about Temperance - about abstaining from alcohol (and probably Prisoner's Honey by association).

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Anne Auclair
Anne Auclair
Posts: 2221

6/21/2017
dov wrote:
shylarah wrote:
I agreed with Anne's recommendation of the Campaigner -- but on the idea that she'd favor rights for Clay Men, Rubberies, Rattus Faber, and so forth! This does not say anything about any of that! *shakes fist* WHERE'S MY EMANCIPATION CAMPAIGN, MISSY?!

But why expect a campaign of emancipation? This is about Temperance - about abstaining from alcohol (and probably Prisoner's Honey by association).

Temperance is all about emancipation - emancipating people from their addictions and slavish dependence. Consider the drunks who every day fall asleep in the streets of Spite and are regularly robbed as a result. Consider the poor men and women who haunt the city's gin parlors like ghosts. Consider the emaciated, honey-mazed wretches we occasionally see wandering the streets (Prisoners Honey - it's in the name!). Consider the intense, all consuming hunger that arises among those who consume strange Zee meat. Would temperance not be liberating for all of these people?

And historically, Temperance movements were inseparable from other social reform efforts like animal rights and the campaign for woman's suffrage.

There are of course powerful interests that want nothing to do with Temperance - Wines, Spices, Hearts, and the Devils. If you wonder why London has so many hopeless addicts and there is no effort on the part of the government to help them, well, this is the reason.

Plynkes wrote:
Well, if she pushes the whole temperance business as far as actually proposing prohibition, certain parties will definitely benefit.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if the Cheery Man or the Gracious Widow are lurking behind this particular curtain.

It's a misconception that Temperance means Prohibition or that Temperance inevitably leads to Prohibition. As defined, Temperance can mean:

1. moderation or self-restraint in action, statement, etc.; self-control.

2. habitual moderation in the indulgence of a natural appetite or passion, especially in the use of alcoholic liquors.

3. total abstinence from alcoholic liquors.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Temperance Campaigner personally aspires to number 3 (including honey), but any realistic program would aim for promoting moderate behavior among London's people and curbing harmful excess. Also, the DTC might be very formidable, but I doubt she has the ability to shutdown Mr Wines and Mr Spices :P At best she can only inconvenience them a little, so prohibition is right out.

shylarah wrote:
I agreed with Anne's recommendation of the Campaigner -- but on the idea that she'd favor rights for Clay Men, Rubberies, Rattus Faber, and so forth! This does not say anything about any of that! *shakes fist* WHERE'S MY EMANCIPATION CAMPAIGN, MISSY?!

The introduction does say "All manner of temperance campaigners flock to her emerald banners" and "For everybody!" We'll see shortly how extensive this "all manner" and "everybody" actually is and whether it includes some of London's non-human residents.
edited by Anne Auclair on 6/21/2017

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Kaigen
Kaigen
Posts: 530

6/21/2017
I, for one, would not be shocked if she were to hold up Clay Men as a positive example, though I don't know how persuasive that would be.

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Anne Auclair
Anne Auclair
Posts: 2221

6/21/2017
Catherine Raymond wrote:
She's already specified how she means Temperance. "Teatime for London". Though that raises other issues, as you describe. She may very well be against prisoner's honey too--we'll find out!

She's against prisoners honey more than anything. She leads anti-honey protests during Hollowmas and at the Rosers Market in Sunless Sea.

Fadewalker wrote:
I'm surprised to find that she might have already brought me several "hearty potato-soups for the convalescent", and paid me several times for my poems, but I didn't even remember her name... Sorryupset

Don't feel bad. She's a very interesting character, but she doesn't really have any memorable appearances in Fallen London itself outside of Hallowmas. Her Sunless Sea cameo on the other hand...

Sunless Sea wrote:
A Dauntless Temperance Campaigner is cooing at your Live Specimen

She was here to protest against the shadow-puppet production of The Honey Harvest, but passes her placard to one of her supporters. "How much for the beastie?"

Room in her heart

"I never did like to see anything locked up." She searches her purse for payment, as two of her burlier supporters heft the cage. The thing inside is remarkably still. The Dauntless Temperance Campaigner hands over the fee, and pats the cage. "Come now, dearie. Let's get you out of here."

edited by Anne Auclair on 6/21/2017

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Plynkes
Plynkes
Posts: 690

6/21/2017
Anne Auclair wrote:

It's a misconception that Temperance means Prohibition or that Temperance inevitably leads to Prohibition.


Noted, but I do not recall saying anything about inevitability, and besides, historically the Temperance Movement did indeed lead directly to prohibition, in the USA at least.
edited by Plynkes on 6/21/2017

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Anne Auclair
Anne Auclair
Posts: 2221

6/21/2017
Plynkes wrote:
Anne Auclair wrote:
[
It's a misconception that Temperance means Prohibition or that Temperance inevitably leads to Prohibition.


Noted, but historically the Temperance Movement did indeed lead directly to prohibition, in the USA at least.

Oye, America has never been a very balanced country and has an unhealthy tendency towards very extreme swings. Fortunately, the Neath might be a lot of things but it is not and will never be as bad as America :P

Historically there was a wide range to Temperance positions, legal prohibition being on the extreme end of things. Prohibitionists were often opposed by other Temperance campaigners who believed legal coercion to be wrong or counterproductive. Temperance doesn't even necessarily mean total opposition to alcohol consumption, but merely opposition to people consuming the stronger types of spirit. As an example of the latter, I give you William Hogarth's Beer Street and Gin Lane, where the productive and sober beer drinkers are contrasted with the debauched and dying gin addicts.

I don't think anyone doubts that Fallen London has a bit of a gin problem...

Rob a Drunk wrote:
A cavalry officer

That's the uniform of the 23rd Neathy Rifles. Though he's long since sold his brass buttons – for the cheapest gin, by the smell.

Perhaps we should do something about that?
edited by Anne Auclair on 6/21/2017

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Siankan
Siankan
Posts: 1048

6/21/2017
Anne Auclair wrote:
It's a misconception that Temperance means Prohibition or that Temperance inevitably leads to Prohibition. As defined, Temperance can mean:

1. moderation or self-restraint in action, statement, etc.; self-control.

2. habitual moderation in the indulgence of a natural appetite or passion, especially in the use of alcoholic liquors.

3. total abstinence from alcoholic liquors.

While this is a true statement, this is a woman who's used the slogan "Gin is Sin." I'm fairly sure she's a strict tee-totaler - and she means for you to be, too.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Temperance Campaigner personally aspires to number 3 (including honey), but any realistic program would aim for promoting moderate behavior among London's people and curbing harmful excess.



Again, true enough, but who in London's history has ever been guilty of pursuing realistic programs? We're talking about a city where "Oh, dear, my husband is terribly ill" is considered an acceptable rationale for beheading a civilization. (In fact, we're talking about a city where similar scenarios have played out, what, five times now? A charming layer cake, and without a dash of proportion in the recipe.)

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Anne Auclair
Anne Auclair
Posts: 2221

6/21/2017
Siankan wrote:
Anne Auclair wrote:
It's a misconception that Temperance means Prohibition or that Temperance inevitably leads to Prohibition. As defined, Temperance can mean:

1. moderation or self-restraint in action, statement, etc.; self-control.

2. habitual moderation in the indulgence of a natural appetite or passion, especially in the use of alcoholic liquors.

3. total abstinence from alcoholic liquors.

While this is a true statement, this is a woman who's used the slogan "Gin is Sin." I'm fairly sure she's a strict tee-totaler - and she means for you to be, too.

I think that slogan was meant to deter us from consuming gin. In particular, a special brand of particularly powerful gin cooked up by a soul collecting Devil. Context :P

Siankan wrote:
Again, true enough, but who in London's history has ever been guilty of pursuing realistic programs? We're talking about a city where "Oh, dear, my husband is terribly ill" is considered an acceptable rationale for beheading a civilization. (In fact, we're talking about a city where similar scenarios have played out, what, five times now? A charming layer cake, and without a dash of proportion in the recipe.)

Still better than America :P

And in the last election both Sinning Jenny and the Bishop put forward realistic programs.
edited by Anne Auclair on 6/21/2017

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Passionario
Passionario
Posts: 777

6/22/2017
Absintheuse wrote:
She bears the slogan: “Teatime for London.”





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Von Darken
Von Darken
Posts: 39

6/22/2017
I realise others have expressed similar sentiments but I thought I should probably say:

If that bl---y woman thinks she's taking away my booze she's got another thing coming.
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Skinnyman
Skinnyman
Posts: 2149

6/22/2017
Anne Auclair wrote:

Rob a Drunk wrote:
A cavalry officer

That's the uniform of the 23rd Neathy Rifles. Though he's long since sold his brass buttons – for the cheapest gin, by the smell.

Perhaps we should do something about that?

Yes, grab their weapon as well! Big Grin Was my favourite thing to do when I was a newcomer!

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Frederick Metzengerstein
Frederick Metzengerstein
Posts: 69

6/22/2017
I like this candidate and her portrait is lovely. Also she's the most plausible candidate so far. She has heaps of experience, at least in organising and managing a campaign. Thank God for sober leadership!

BTW I don't get a Dolores Umbridge vibe from her at all. Umbridge had this sickly sweet veneer. The Dauntless Temperance Campaigner strikes me aa formidable and resolute in appearance as well as morals.
edited by Frederick Metzengerstein on 6/22/2017
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Anne Auclair
Anne Auclair
Posts: 2221

6/22/2017
Aberrant Eremite wrote:
Lady Sapho Byron wrote:
Blast. I will not vote for the DTC. And Feducci? Master of the Black Ribbon? I have nothing against a good thumping, but somebody who 'claims that only a duel to the [true] death can make him feel alive' shouldn't be given political power. I do hope the third candidate is more palatable to the Scandalously inclined.

  • edited by Lady Sapho Byron on 6/21/2017


    I agree wholeheartedly! If Sinning Jenny can't run for re-election, why not the Illuminated Gentleman? He *does* have foreign policy experience, after all. My Bohemian would jump at the chance to volunteer for that campaign - she usually has to pay for his company, and his rates are not cheap.

    It just occurred to me that the Dauntless Temperance Campaigner is actually this years Bohemian candidate, as she's the one with the "reformed poets" supporting her. So last year we had a candidate from the Parlor of Virtue supported by all the unapologeticly libertine Bohemians. This year we have a temperance candidate supported by all those Bohemians who have sworn off the sauce.

    The artistic world is riven with factions.
    edited by Anne Auclair on 6/22/2017

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    Estelle Knoht
    Estelle Knoht
    Posts: 1751

    6/22/2017
    suinicide wrote:
    I think one of the hallowmas options talked about how she blamed Mr Wines for a death. So I always thought she was a revolutionary trying to weaken Wines' economic base.



    Nope, she blames the Calendar Council for a very specific death if you tell her the details and promptly start a campaign against them. Or you can stonewall her with "go bother Mr Wines instead, you are a Temperance Campaigner".

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    suinicide
    suinicide
    Posts: 2450

    6/22/2017
    Estelle Knoht wrote:
    suinicide wrote:
    I think one of the hallowmas options talked about how she blamed Mr Wines for a death. So I always thought she was a revolutionary trying to weaken Wines' economic base.



    Nope, she blames the Calendar Council for a very specific death if you tell her the details and promptly start a campaign against them. Or you can stonewall her with &quotgo bother Mr Wines instead, you are a Temperance Campaigner&quot.

    Yes, she blames the calendar council when you tell her. But she also says "but I thought Wines..." so its safe to say she was blaming wines before that.

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    Lady Sapho Byron
    Lady Sapho Byron
    Posts: 786

    6/22/2017
    So …

    Feducci is a psychopath working to forward an unknown Presbyterate agenda.

    The Implacable Detective is backed by the Constabulary, an organization of violence, loyalty to the Masters, and dishonesty (there is, at most, one honest Special Constable in London, after all).

    That leaves the Dauntless Temperance Campaigner ... I can tolerate a year of black market prices for coffee, wine, honey, and inappropriate literature in exchange for not being governed by—in the metaphoric or literal sense, depending—Savage Hob-Nail Booted thugs. Politics makes strange bedfellows.

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    Sir Joseph Marlen
    Sir Joseph Marlen
    Posts: 575

    6/22/2017
    Lady Sapho Byron wrote:
    So …

    Feducci is a psychopath working to forward an unknown Presbyterate agenda.

    The Implacable Detective is backed by the Constabulary, an organization of violence, loyalty to the Masters, and dishonesty (there is, at most, one honest Special Constable in London, after all).

    That leaves the Dauntless Temperance Campaigner ... I can tolerate a year of black market prices for coffee, wine, honey, and inappropriate literature in exchange for not being governed by—in the metaphoric or literal sense, depending—Savage Hob-Nail Booted thugs. Politics makes strange bedfellows.

    To be fair, the Special Constables are the ones who mainly serve the Masters and their games. The normal Constables serve the law (as in London and her laws) and regularly come into conflict with the Special Constables over their service. One of the most corrupt levels of the faction is involved in the Velocipede Squad, and if you've played to the full extent of their storyline, they're either secured in power of out of commission depending on your choices. I don't wholly trust any of the supporting factions in this election, and I doubt any of our candidates are without their skeletons, but I trust the Implacable Detective the most to bring out the best of her supporting groups (like those of high standard such as the Last Constable) with her leadership. Feducci is almost a certain negative on that level of my trust. As for the Campaigner, well, that remains to be seen.
    edited by Sir Joseph Marlen on 6/22/2017

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    Lady Sapho Byron
    Lady Sapho Byron
    Posts: 786

    6/22/2017
    Sir Joseph Marlen wrote:

    To be fair, the Special Constables are the ones who mainly serve the Masters and their games. The normal Constables serve the law (as in London and her laws) and regularly come into conflict with the Special Constables over their service.


    True ... but I've always understood the non-special Constables to be agents of the Masters at least as much as they are agents of London. For example:

    Connected: Constables: Acquaintance with the burly, serious gentlemen who uphold the law of the Bazaar.

    Court and Cell: the Constables: The Constables protect the rich, the powerful, and the Masters. But sometimes, too, they protect the wretched poor.

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