Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
6/22/2017
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Last year after the candidates were announced I got the distinct impression that Sinning Jenny was the front runner. A lot of people seemed to like her and she had this "it" quality - it was easy to imagine her winning. She seemed to have something for everyone who wasn't opposed from the start.
This year I think things are wide open. There seems to be a lot of people with reservations about all three candidates, there's a bit more "lesser evialism" in the air, and the respective candidate fan bases appear more proportionate.
edited by Anne Auclair on 6/22/2017
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loredeluxe
Posts: 106
6/23/2017
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You know, I was actually going to support the Implacable Detective since I thought her regime could bring some morality and sense of honor and justice to Fallen London, but then I got the Constables renown 40 item. I don't think many people fully realize the depths of depravity the Constables are willing to stoop to and that they may genuinely be on the most evil factions in the game. Beware spoilers below for those that haven't gotten the renown 40 item yet for these monsters.
[spoiler]The Constables renown 40 item is called The Place Where They Bury the Bodies. It's a shoe slot item because it refers to a pair of boots found on the slow boat drifting on a silent river, where we all go when we die in the Neath. The player finds a pair of boots sitting alone on the boat and asks the Boatman who the belong to. He doesn't answer but another passenger does. This person says that the owner of the boots would always come onto the boat with a companion and then push them into the river to some unknown but undoubtedly horrific eternal torment. This individual plays chess with the Boatman and eventually returns to London to repeat the process. This unknown person has done this countless times but eventually loses their mind and jumps overboard. The player takes the boots as the renown item and the Boatman cryptically says that the boots have time and time again been to "The Place Where They Bury the Bodies."
The text doesn't mention any names but the fact that it is a Constables item combined with context we know from other stories makes it obvious whats really going on. The Constables are well known for their brutality with criminals and even will torture them. Apparently they have a way to silence people permanently. Some unknown constable buries a victim his compatriots made disappear in a specific Place, commits suicide to follow this victim because death is rarely permanent in the Neath, and pushed them into the silent river to silence them permanently. This process has been done God knows how many times, but the really scary thing is when you consider who the victims might be. Criminals and Revolutionaries are the obvious targets though they still don't deserve such horrible fates, but remember the Ministry of Public Decency and the Neddy Men. The Masters have sicced the Constables on dissidents before. There's no telling how many of the victims were innocent people who spoke out against the tyranny pervading Fallen London.
At this point, you may be asking what this has to do with the Implacable Detective. It has been shown that she absolutely follows the Constable's Code of Silence and is no doubt a high ranking member in the Constabulary. Her position in the Dilmun Club shows that she is most interested in immortality, thus she is perfectly capable of being selfish deep down. My point is that I have no doubt that she knew these beyond horrible atrocities were being committed and may have even been approved by her considering how important she is to their faction and how deep her connections run in London. This regime of law and order she wants to bring to London honestly fills me with absolute horror when I consider what she and the Constables are actually capable of. I know most of you have already decided you'll be voting for her because she's the coolest candidate, but I implore you not to let her into power. Feducci, an immortal spy from a foreign power with a passion for bloody death combat, may genuinely be the more morally sound candidate here.[/spoiler]
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dov
Posts: 2580
6/23/2017
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loredeluxe wrote:
I don't think many people fully realize the depths of depravity the Constables are willing to stoop to and that they may genuinely be on the most evil factions in the game.
A possible interpretation, but subjective.
No single faction in the game is truly monolithic. There are always internal sub-factions. In your post you blend together Constables, Special Constables, and Neddy Men.
We saw that indeed, the Constables can be brutal. They also serve the interests of those in power. But that by itself is not different than most police forces in the real world.
There are significantly more violent elements among the Constables, most notably the Velocipede Squad (unless you reform it or shut it down). But the Constables are also the ones keeping the peace for the common Londoner. Who else investigates murders, thefts, and forgeries? Who else tried to actually investigate and solve the Jack-of-Smiles case?
But besides all that, this is a very singular issue to focus on for the election. It's not as if the Knuckle-Scarred Inspector is running. It's the Detective.
Unsurprisingly, the Constables support her. But her character is more interesting than "a high ranking member of the Constabulary".
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edited by dov on 6/23/2017
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Cernunnas
Posts: 12
6/23/2017
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Now, I've seen the candidates and I'm leaning towards Feducci, but I'm still hoping for a more shadowy candidate... perhaps a devil? That would be just incredible. Are there going to be any more candidates? (There are 3 at the moment)
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Shrewd and ruthless lady, dwells in the shadows, has a fascination for Devils and adores all things grotesque and bizarre. She prefers solitude, but despite her unpredictability, hunger for raw flesh and almost psychotic nature, will accept any social interaction if accompanied by a proper message.
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menaulon
Posts: 112
6/23/2017
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Cernunnas wrote:
Now, I've seen the candidates and I'm leaning towards Feducci, but I'm still hoping for a more shadowy candidate... perhaps a devil? That would be just incredible. Are there going to be any more candidates? (There are 3 at the moment)
Last year there were three candidates in total, so most likely there won't be another one.
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Menaulon
Open to social actions, but would prefer to be betrayed in the search for Photographer.
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Sir Joseph Marlen
Posts: 575
6/23/2017
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dov wrote:
loredeluxe wrote:
I don't think many people fully realize the depths of depravity the Constables are willing to stoop to and that they may genuinely be on the most evil factions in the game.
A possible interpretation, but subjective.
No single faction in the game is truly monolithic. There are always internal sub-factions. In your post you blend together Constables, Special Constables, and Neddy Men.
We saw that indeed, the Constables can be brutal. They also serve the interests of those in power. But that by itself is not different than most police forces in the real world.
There are significantly more violent elements among the Constables, most notably the Velocipede Squad (unless you reform it or shut it down). But the Constables are also the ones keeping the peace for the common Londoner. Who else investigates murders, thefts, and forgeries? Who else tried to actually investigate and solve the Jack-of-Smiles case?
But besides all that, this is a very singular issue to focus on for the election. It's not as if the Knuckle-Scarred Inspector is running. It's the Detective.
Unsurprisingly, the Constables support her. But her character is more interesting than "a high ranking member of the Constabulary".
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edited by dov on 6/23/2017
I'll remind voters that there is no faction in Fallen London free of sin. The Criminals deal in drugs that painfully erase a person's mind for one's pleasure and use ruthless tactics. Society abuses its power to maintain a foothold over London and those beneath them. Revolutionaries want to erase the laws of reality, no matter who gets hurt. The problem is that we're judging these groups as single entities of good or evil when the truth is that they're complex groups with subfactions of ideals and morals. If we're going to judge a faction for the bad they've done, the least we can do is judge equally as mixed bags with no simple definition.
Yes, the Constable 40 renown item is ghoulish, but the 3rd tier of grinding to get to that point involves freeing an innocent constable from jail who possibly fought against deeper crimes or showed sympathy for the enemies of the powerful. The Constables aren't heroes nor villains, they're just an orderly group of people in service to their own convictions of the law. That being said, let's say for argument's sake that the Constables are nearly all ruthless thugs. Is it so wild to suggest that the Implacable Detective would break from this tradition and possibly disapproves of their wrongs? Jenny cut ties with Mr Wines in pursuit of the freedom to help others, and the Contrarian fought to keep his campaign as objective as possible despite the interests of the Council. It's bad enough to assume a group to be entirely homogeneous and absolute. It's even worse to claim every member to be in line with these characteristics and ideals, let alone embodying the worst that the faction has to offer.
For me, this election involves considering the candidates themselves and their platform. Feducci is ruthless in his schemes and wishes to help himself and those of equal power, ultimately someone I wouldn't trust with London. The Campaigner, while loving and good-meaning in nature, is too straightforward in her blunt answers to the complex issues of London that require a subtle touch. Is the Detective perfect? No. Are the Constables ideal? Not in my opinion. But, I consider her to be the best for London as a mayor fighting injustices and uncovering the truth beneath the city. If nothing else, I trust her the most out of our options.
edited by Sir Joseph Marlen on 6/23/2017
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Sir Joseph Marlen - The Romantic Sophist
Alexus Harven - The Defiant Fatalist
Rose Reinhelm - The Respectful Revolutionary
Cappuccino - The Perfidious Spycraft
Available for any and all social actions.
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Lawrence Eclipse
Posts: 4
6/23/2017
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Sir Joseph Marlen wrote:
dov wrote:
loredeluxe wrote:
I don't think many people fully realize the depths of depravity the Constables are willing to stoop to and that they may genuinely be on the most evil factions in the game.
A possible interpretation, but subjective.
No single faction in the game is truly monolithic. There are always internal sub-factions. In your post you blend together Constables, Special Constables, and Neddy Men.
We saw that indeed, the Constables can be brutal. They also serve the interests of those in power. But that by itself is not different than most police forces in the real world.
There are significantly more violent elements among the Constables, most notably the Velocipede Squad (unless you reform it or shut it down). But the Constables are also the ones keeping the peace for the common Londoner. Who else investigates murders, thefts, and forgeries? Who else tried to actually investigate and solve the Jack-of-Smiles case?
But besides all that, this is a very singular issue to focus on for the election. It's not as if the Knuckle-Scarred Inspector is running. It's the Detective.
Unsurprisingly, the Constables support her. But her character is more interesting than "a high ranking member of the Constabulary".
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edited by dov on 6/23/2017
I'll remind voters that there is no faction in Fallen London free of sin. The Criminals deal in drugs that painfully erase a person's mind for one's pleasure and use ruthless tactics. Society abuses its power to maintain a foothold over London and those beneath them. Revolutionaries want to erase the laws of reality, no matter who gets hurt. The problem is that we're judging these groups as single entities of good or evil when the truth is that they're complex groups with subfactions of ideals and morals. If we're going to judge a faction for the bad they've done, the least we can do is judge equally as mixed bags with no simple definition.
Yes, the Constable 40 renown item is ghoulish, but the 3rd tier of grinding to get to that point involves freeing an innocent constable from jail who possibly fought against deeper crimes or showed sympathy for the enemies of the powerful. The Constables aren't heroes nor villains, they're just an orderly group of people in service to their own convictions of the law. That being said, let's say for argument's sake that the Constables are nearly all ruthless thugs. Is it so wild to suggest that the Implacable Detective would break from this tradition and possibly disapproves of their wrongs? Jenny cut ties with Mr Wines in pursuit of the freedom to help others, and the Contrarian fought to keep his campaign as objective as possible despite the interests of the Council. It's bad enough to assume a group to be entirely homogeneous and absolute. It's even worse to claim every member to be in line with these characteristics and ideals, let alone embodying the worst that the faction has to offer.
For me, this election involves considering the candidates themselves and their platform. Feducci is ruthless in his schemes and wishes to help himself and those of equal power, ultimately someone I wouldn't trust with London. The Campaigner, while loving and good-meaning in nature, is too straightforward in her blunt answers to the complex issues of London that require a subtle touch. Is the Detective perfect? No. Are the Constables ideal? Not in my opinion. But, I consider her to be the best for London as a mayor fighting injustices and uncovering the truth beneath the city. If nothing else, I trust her the most out of our options.
edited by Sir Joseph Marlen on 6/23/2017
I wholehardly agree with your explanation, but I feel the urge to add something..
loredeluxe, who accused the constables in the first place, choice of picture shows us the patron saint of spies and agents. For such people the law can be a problem and they are usually well versed in giving information that benefits them most of all. So, caution is advised!
All in all, are the Constables perfect? Of course not. But the Neath is a ghoulish place, that drives people to the depth of depravity and it is the Constables who, in there duty, have to witness all of it. They get ..overboard with their punishments and interrogations, sure, but never forget that even a bad order is still better than chaos. Maybe not for the smart, the strong and the influential, but for the weak and the poor.
Thank you for your time.
[Also, yay, I'm finally motivated enough to join the forum =) ]
EDIT: Name mix-up, sorry about that..
edited by Lawrence Eclipse on 6/23/2017
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Gillsing
Posts: 1203
6/23/2017
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Lawrence Eclipse wrote:
Sir Marlens choice of picture shows us the patron saint of spies and agents.
Surely you are thinking of "loredeluxe", as Sir Joseph Marlen's picture is just a silhouette with a magnifying glass?
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Lawrence Eclipse
Posts: 4
6/23/2017
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Gillsing wrote:
Lawrence Eclipse wrote:
Sir Marlens choice of picture shows us the patron saint of spies and agents.
Surely you are thinking of "loredeluxe", as Sir Joseph Marlen's picture is just a silhouette with a magnifying glass?
Oh, yes. It was loredeluxe, sorry for the mix-up. Though I'm still sure that it was him who accused the Constables in the first place.
I will edit my post, sorry again x_x
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
6/23/2017
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Sir Joseph Marlen wrote:
That being said, let's say for argument's sake that the Constables are nearly all ruthless thugs. Is it so wild to suggest that the Implacable Detective would break from this tradition and possibly disapproves of their wrongs? Jenny cut ties with Mr Wines in pursuit of the freedom to help others, and the Contrarian fought to keep his campaign as objective as possible despite the interests of the Council. It's bad enough to assume a group to be entirely homogeneous and absolute. It's even worse to claim every member to be in line with these characteristics and ideals, let alone embodying the worst that the faction has to offer.
For me, this election involves considering the candidates themselves and their platform.
The thing about the Detective is that she's not simply being supported by the Constables. She's a prominent and highly renowned member of their faction. She's on their faction card and she helps them investigate you when you acquire suspicion. Now, when players get close to the Constables they have to adhere to certain rules, chief among them the rule of Constables' silence, which prohibits snitching on your fellow officers, no matter how corrupt or awful their deeds. Breaking that rule, even for a very good cause, gets you kicked out of the Constables' little brotherhood. They take this silence very seriously.
Now, the Implacable Detective is by all accounts an incredibly intelligent and observant lady, as well as an implacable investigator who has been around for many, many years. She's the founder of the Implacable Method, where you "consider all possibilities, eliminate all errors, and isolate the truth." So, given her lengthy membership in the Constable faction, how does she not know their darker secrets? Players less renowned then her can discover them. The most straightforward answer is that the Constables' rule of silence is in effect. If she knows and hasn't done anything about the killings, then she's a part of the cover-up. If she doesn't know about the killings, it's only because she doesn't want to know, which means she knows one shouldn't look too closely into certain permanent disappearances.
So, this issue does really touch upon the Detective's character.
Sir Joseph Marlen wrote:
Jenny cut ties with Mr Wines in pursuit of the freedom to help others,
And fyi, Jenny hardly "cut ties" with Mr Wines. After the "break" she continued to receive help from him under the table (endless gifts of wine), continued to work at the Parlor of Virtue, and continued to consult him on major decisions.
Lawrence Eclipse wrote:
[Also, yay, I'm finally motivated enough to join the forum =) ]
Welcome! I tried to like your post, but I accidentally pressed the red thumb instead -_-
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Luminen Walker
Posts: 172
6/23/2017
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Complaints in a nutshell so far...
Feducci: He's shady in the absolute, he's part of a murder club, he's a foreign spy, and he'd probably fit in with Ayn Rand. Seems like a cool guy, I might vote for him.
Dauntless Temperance Campaigner: Urga burga christianity is evil. Oh wait that was last year's complaint... THERE MUST BE SOMETHING WRONG HERE! TEMPERANCE WILL BE FORCED DOWN OUR THROATS AND THERE'LL BE PROHIBITION!
Implacable Detective: Urga burga the police are evil because they're basically garbagemen and no one else can be bothered to clean the streets. The blame we heap on them is totally deserved, the world would be better off without law enforcement. People are so often inclined to behave without consequences.
edited by TeslaWalker on 6/23/2017
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1 - Cpt. Martin Walker, a Paramount and Marvellous Dreamer.
2 - Ariana Crivelli, a silent and sagacious lady.
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Sir Joseph Marlen
Posts: 575
6/24/2017
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Anne Auclair wrote:
The thing about the Detective is that she's not simply being supported by the Constables. She's a prominent and highly renowned member of their faction. She's on their faction card and she helps them investigate you when you acquire suspicion. Now, when players get close to the Constables they have to adhere to certain rules, chief among them the rule of Constables' silence, which prohibits snitching on your fellow officers, no matter how corrupt or awful their deeds. Breaking that rule, even for a very good cause, gets you kicked out of the Constables' little brotherhood. They take this silence very seriously.
Now, the Implacable Detective is by all accounts an incredibly intelligent and observant lady, as well as an implacable investigator who has been around for many, many years. She's the founder of the Implacable Method, where you "consider all possibilities, eliminate all errors, and isolate the truth." So, given her lengthy membership in the Constable faction, how does she not know their darker secrets? Players less renowned then her can discover them. The most straightforward answer is that the Constables' rule of silence is in effect. If she knows and hasn't done anything about the killings, then she's a part of the cover-up. If she doesn't know about the killings, it's only because she doesn't want to know, which means she knows one shouldn't look too closely into certain permanent disappearances.
While I wouldn't say she's certainly outside of the faction's inner workings, I wouldn't call her a detective wholly in their hands. During her search when you've accumulated high suspicion, your taunting earns you the opportunity to work alongside her via her business card. In fact, many interactions with her, nearly regardless of the circumstances, leaves an open end for you to be of mutual service to her work. Here, you can trade secrets with her on discrete matters over chess (the Consort's condition being one) and take on cases that sound more like private eye work for hire than strictly constable investigations in service to the law. She's also known to meet the Cheery Man for chess and discussion. Ironically, I view her more as a Sherlock-like figure than the canon Sherlock insert of the Honey-Addled Detective; she works alongside the law and often works in tangent with their business but is more of a private detective in service to them and is not afraid to hold actions outside of their interests.
Speaking of the Cheery Man, I must note that the Last Constable was still considered a constable. Many love her for the characterization during her story and are introduced to her as an upstanding and honest individual in pursuit of true justice. Am I to go so far to say that she's of the same standing as the Implacable Detective? No. However, I will say that the Last Constable leaves an interesting potential for the Detective. Either both of them are damnable due to their connections to the Constables, or (if you too approve of the Last Constable) there exists some level of possible exception for those working alongside the Constables depending on their actions and opinions. This doesn't guarantee her innocence, but it does suggest there remains the possibility for a redeeming trait of going against the corrupts' wants or a fellowship code (should she actually follow one), despite her work with the law. I believe that we'll be able to make a clearer image of her intentions after our investigations into her campaign, and I would encouraged others to be suspicious of her and her fellow candidates' true nature. However, while my promotion for her is partially based on personal observation, it is at least uncertain to claim her supposed guilt as fact.
Also, I think you're mixing renown and the Closest To qualities too closely. If we are to believe that the innocent constable during the 3rd tier of renown grinding truly was fighting injustice or against serving a superior's authority, then we must accept that the method of reaching the highest renown for Constables involves preserving the best parts of the group and foiling the schemes of its less moral members. Renown, while possibly coinciding with Closest To, does not necessitate it. Though it may be a point of disagreeing in the forums, I've suggested she may not be as close to their darker nature as we think. Simply put, though she may be well known and popular among their ranks, that doesn't mean her close affiliation to them and their morals.
Anne Auclair wrote:
And fyi, Jenny hardly "cut ties" with Mr Wines. After the "break" she continued to receive help from him under the table (endless gifts of wine), continued to work at the Parlor of Virtue, and continued to consult him on major decisions.
This still doesn't invalidate the point of the Contrarian's efforts during his campaign, though I would appreciate quotes on these dealings since I am unaware of them. However, she still attempted to break what ties she could from Wines during her campaign (which was of harm to her election despite the end results) and pushed to work against the Masters' plans in her planning of the Finishing School to the point of showing anger at the player suggesting to work for London's betterment even should it benefit the Masters. If that hasn't earned her at least some benefit of the doubt, then I doubt anything will.
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Sir Joseph Marlen - The Romantic Sophist
Alexus Harven - The Defiant Fatalist
Rose Reinhelm - The Respectful Revolutionary
Cappuccino - The Perfidious Spycraft
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Odin, All-father
Posts: 15
6/24/2017
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I must admit that I'm uncertain if I could support the Implacable Detective, not because of anything to do with the constables, but because of the impressions I've gotten though the interactions in the Dilmun Club. I'm tossing up which of the others I'll choose however.
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