John Moose
Posts: 276
6/5/2017
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FBG has really detailed data on how much each storylet sees use and people working on analyzing this data. If renown was a fringe fun of a few forum-goers, they wouldn't be putting in active work again and again at new factions without changing anything, had they seen almost zero interest after the first factions converted. It wouldn't just be not fixing a mistake, it'd be going the extra mile to keep making the same mistake they'd already be aware of.
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Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1789
6/6/2017
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After the initial groaning over the too high rate, I found that the appearance of renown has added fun to the game - another goal means a reason to get excited when Politie Invitation or faction cards show up. This was not the case before. It's the repetitiveness that kills it.
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Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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checkmate
Posts: 6
6/8/2017
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I don't know if this has been brought up elsewhere before, but it looks as though FBG has taken steps to make sure new players see the Renown system as they go through the Making Your Name storylets. It's obviously not repeatable and it may have a low level cap, but I just got my first two levels of Renown: Constables on an alt by siding with them in 'A Raid on the Brass Embassy!'
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PSGarak
Posts: 834
6/8/2017
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checkmate wrote:
I don't know if this has been brought up elsewhere before, but it looks as though FBG has taken steps to make sure new players see the Renown system as they go through the Making Your Name storylets. It's obviously not repeatable and it may have a low level cap, but I just got my first two levels of Renown: Constables on an alt by siding with them in 'A Raid on the Brass Embassy!'
This directly addresses about 50% of the complaints that I previously had with Renown. I hope it takes at least two hands to count the number of story-events that give Renown like this.
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http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/PSGarak
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Artful
Posts: 48
6/8/2017
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What I am most disappointed with is the way some Fate-locked rewards have been broken as part of the conversion process.
Sadly, support does not think there is a problem.
Frustrating enough to make me cancel my EF subscription. Too bad, because FL is a lovely place to spend time.
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A Penultimate Paramount Presence waiting for the ability to overcap stats before crossing the threshold.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Artful
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Plynkes
Posts: 631
6/8/2017
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What got broken, if I may ask?
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"Then tell Wind and Fire where to stop, but don't tell me."
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reaperOscuroCore
Posts: 41
6/8/2017
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Good day,
What I'm puzzled with is: how are newly wedded players to this delectable locale meant to go about raising Renown beyond 2, or even 3? Even with Carnivals help if I recall incorrectly, one then needs to convert the Favours -which means items. Expensive items. Which the new player cannot afford, and will thus need to grind for. And dear fellow masochists, we all know tjat grind is not fun. So why add a further possibility for new players to be turned off by this wondreous game? Am I missing something?
I truly preferred Connected. It's about simplicity, you see: in a game swimming very deeply with content, there is no need to further comicate things. It goes up, it goes down. It can be gained in simple ways.
Now, we can only gain randomly, and grindingly. Oh what jolly, jolly fun.
Merrily,
Arden
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Arden Terraward -a gentleperson on the search for...EVERYTHING. http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Arden%20Terraward
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Siankan
Posts: 1048
6/8/2017
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reaperOscuroCore wrote:
Now, we can only gain randomly, and grindingly. Oh what jolly, jolly fun.
These two things are opposite. Grinding means you're putting continual effort into working on something; it requires non-random opportunities.
Mrs. Plenty's establishment will take you up to Renown 5 without buying anything.
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Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
6/8/2017
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Siankan wrote:
reaperOscuroCore wrote:
Now, we can only gain randomly, and grindingly. Oh what jolly, jolly fun.
These two things are opposite. Grinding means you're putting continual effort into working on something; it requires non-random opportunities.
Mrs. Plenty's establishment will take you up to Renown 5 without buying anything.
"Or" is an applicable way, since most favours alsp have a way to grind them, in addition to the cards.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Amalgamate
Posts: 435
6/9/2017
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PSGarak wrote:
checkmate wrote:
I don't know if this has been brought up elsewhere before, but it looks as though FBG has taken steps to make sure new players see the Renown system as they go through the Making Your Name storylets. It's obviously not repeatable and it may have a low level cap, but I just got my first two levels of Renown: Constables on an alt by siding with them in 'A Raid on the Brass Embassy!'
This directly addresses about 50% of the complaints that I previously had with Renown. I hope it takes at least two hands to count the number of story-events that give Renown like this.
Yeah, if they add a bunch of other ways of getting renown that would resolve most of the complaints. The weirdest thing about renown is how despite how it's supposed to mean your interaction with a faction, it's only gained by *one specific* interaction, and one that has no connection any of the stories. If things that led to you interacting with a faction gave you renown where appropriate, that would really resolve the issue.
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http://www.fallenlondon.com/Profile/amalgamate
Social invitations of all kinds welcome, especially games of chess and deadly sparring!
Also happy to help with nightmares, send sips of Cider, and plant battle.
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Lady Sapho Byron
Posts: 770
6/9/2017
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Amalgamate wrote:
Yeah, if they add a bunch of other ways of getting renown that would resolve most of the complaints. The weirdest thing about renown is how despite how it's supposed to mean your interaction with a faction, it's only gained by *one specific* interaction, and one that has no connection any of the stories. If things that led to you interacting with a faction gave you renown where appropriate, that would really resolve the issue.
I agree completely; I would very much like to be able to pick up Renown organically and not only through targeted grinding. The 'A Raid on the Brass Embassy!' opportunity is a good example ... having the potential to gain Renown through rare cards or rare successes would be a delight.
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http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Lady%20Sapho%20L%20Byron
Fighting the Menace of Corsetry Since 1892.
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Estelle Knoht
Posts: 1751
6/9/2017
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Having some more variation on QLDs between 25 and 50 would be nice, too - right now, it is very clear cut as you either stop at 25 (last new description until maximum), 40 (Renown item) or 50 (Maximum).
New descriptions at, say, 30, 35, 40 and 45 would make for some much needed goalposts in the long road of renown.
edited by Estelle Knoht on 6/9/2017
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Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady.
I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
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Felicity Anne Stratford
Posts: 63
6/9/2017
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Hello all. I definitely have real life things to think about at the moment, but the connected renown conversions have been bothering me for some time. Since I have a minute or two, I thought that I would suggest a change to the conversion process.
My suggestion is to convert all connected to favors, using whatever formula you like, instead of renown. Allow for more than 7 favors for this conversion process.
This puts gaining renown the same for all players, using actions and items. Those with more connection will have a lot of favors to grind through, but it will be the same experience and the same process, including limits based upon attributes. Those who do not like the new renown can also decide to cash in their favors as normal, or you can add a special option to the renown item that does this that only appears when you have more than 7 favors.
The thing that bothers me most about these conversions is the way the rules seem to be different for different players. I think this would fix that issue.
Thanks, and now back to real life.
Becca
--
Looking for a roleplay partner with potential for Simone and maybe for Felicity. All genders considered.
Felicity Anne Stratford is a Correspondent and delighted to visit Orphanages or Salons or be interviewed! Scientific correspondence greatly appreciated. Please no Seeking or Photographer.
Simone Beaufort is a Midnighter and pleased to visit Orphanages or Salons or be interviewed! No Seeking or Photographer.
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Mr Sables
Posts: 597
6/9/2017
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Felicity Anne Stratford wrote:
My suggestion is to convert all connected to favors, using whatever formula you like, instead of renown. Allow for more than 7 favors for this conversion process.
I can't help but just stare with wide eyes . . .
If FBG did that, I would probably stop playing, as . . . wow. I have a few gripes with the new renown system, although I think - once finished, especially as a new player - it could work out to be a lot better than the previous system, and I'll readily admit the conversion rates can be pretty irksome and are seemingly very flawed (no word from FBG on how they work out the rates to fairly judge). Still, your proposed method -?
Years of effort would be wiped down the drain. I'd be extremely peeved off to have hundreds - for some people thousands - of connection points just thrown down the drain, especially those that require Fate . . . I paid RL money for my Masters connections to get them past the cap, and if someone turned around and put me at zero to be "fair" to new players -? I'd be demanding my money back, that's for sure. I'd want every penny back, because what I'd paid for is now gone and made pointless.
I can get wanting things to be fair to new players, but not when it's tipped the other way around to make it unfair to older players.
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Felicity Anne Stratford
Posts: 63
6/9/2017
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Robin Alexander wrote:
Years of effort would be wiped down the drain. I'd be extremely peeved off to have hundreds - for some people thousands - of connection points just thrown down the drain, especially those that require Fate . . . I paid RL money for my Masters connections to get them past the cap, and if someone turned around and put me at zero to be "fair" to new players -? I'd be demanding my money back, that's for sure. I'd want every penny back, because what I'd paid for is now gone and made pointless.
I am confused about what you mean. If you have 200 connection points and I have 50 and the rate for favors they establish is say 10 (for easy math) then you will have 20 favors and I will have 5. Granted, the rate should likely be something else, but this seems proportionate.
--
Looking for a roleplay partner with potential for Simone and maybe for Felicity. All genders considered.
Felicity Anne Stratford is a Correspondent and delighted to visit Orphanages or Salons or be interviewed! Scientific correspondence greatly appreciated. Please no Seeking or Photographer.
Simone Beaufort is a Midnighter and pleased to visit Orphanages or Salons or be interviewed! No Seeking or Photographer.
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Mr Sables
Posts: 597
6/9/2017
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Felicity Anne Stratford wrote:
Robin Alexander wrote:
Years of effort would be wiped down the drain. I'd be extremely peeved off to have hundreds - for some people thousands - of connection points just thrown down the drain, especially those that require Fate . . . I paid RL money for my Masters connections to get them past the cap, and if someone turned around and put me at zero to be "fair" to new players -? I'd be demanding my money back, that's for sure. I'd want every penny back, because what I'd paid for is now gone and made pointless.
I am confused about what you mean. If you have 200 connection points and I have 50 and the rate for favors they establish is say 10 (for easy math) then you will have 20 favors and I will have 5. Granted, the rate should likely be something else, but this seems proportionate.
Yes, I'd have favours, not renown . . .
I'd then have to tediously work my way up, but - also - the renown does not function as connected functions. This means each level up requires items and high levels . . . certain items are fate-locked, certain items belong to certain professions . . . you can only choose one speciality, so only one stat can be over-capped, which takes notability, which also costs items and time and so forth . . . basically instead of just straight converting my 200 connected into 50 renown, you want me to go through the entire grind, which doesn't just require favours. I also couldn't complete that grind as it's impossible for some to get to 50 without those pieces of equipment or over-capping. I'd be penalised in-game echoes, RL fate, actual items, and possibly notability just because I'm a long-time player. It's not fair.
No, it's not fair to penalise new players either. Yes, we need a fairer system, but . . .
Your idea is somewhat cruel and is far from proportionate, as I'd be losing out and you wouldn't be.
Edit: I mean to say you wouldn't "lose out" as you'd be starting off where you left from - the start. I'd be losing out, as I'd lose fate and progress and then be forced to pay a crap-load of stuff and possibly RL money just to get to the high levels I came from.
edited by Robin Alexander on 6/9/2017
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Felicity Anne Stratford
Posts: 63
6/9/2017
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So it is fair to ask some players to pay all of those things for renown but not others? I think we can agree to disagree here.
Robin Alexander wrote:
Felicity Anne Stratford wrote:
Robin Alexander wrote:
Years of effort would be wiped down the drain. I'd be extremely peeved off to have hundreds - for some people thousands - of connection points just thrown down the drain, especially those that require Fate . . . I paid RL money for my Masters connections to get them past the cap, and if someone turned around and put me at zero to be "fair" to new players -? I'd be demanding my money back, that's for sure. I'd want every penny back, because what I'd paid for is now gone and made pointless.
I am confused about what you mean. If you have 200 connection points and I have 50 and the rate for favors they establish is say 10 (for easy math) then you will have 20 favors and I will have 5. Granted, the rate should likely be something else, but this seems proportionate.
Yes, I'd have favours, not renown . . .
I'd then have to tediously work my way up, but - also - the renown does not function as connected functions. This means each level up requires items and high levels . . . certain items are fate-locked, certain items belong to certain professions . . . you can only choose one speciality, so only one stat can be over-capped, which takes notability, which also costs items and time and so forth . . . basically instead of just straight converting my 200 connected into 50 renown, you want me to go through the entire grind, which doesn't just require favours. I also couldn't complete that grind as it's impossible for some to get to 50 without those pieces of equipment or over-capping. I'd be penalised in-game echoes, RL fate, actual items, and possibly notability just because I'm a long-time player. It's not fair.
No, it's not fair to penalise new players either. Yes, we need a fairer system, but . . .
Your idea is somewhat cruel and is far from proportionate, as I'd be losing out and you wouldn't be.
Edit: I mean to say you wouldn't "lose out" as you'd be starting off where you left from - the start. I'd be losing out, as I'd lose fate and progress and then be forced to pay a crap-load of stuff and possibly RL money just to get to the high levels I came from.
edited by Robin Alexander on 6/9/2017
--
Looking for a roleplay partner with potential for Simone and maybe for Felicity. All genders considered.
Felicity Anne Stratford is a Correspondent and delighted to visit Orphanages or Salons or be interviewed! Scientific correspondence greatly appreciated. Please no Seeking or Photographer.
Simone Beaufort is a Midnighter and pleased to visit Orphanages or Salons or be interviewed! No Seeking or Photographer.
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Toran
Posts: 193
6/9/2017
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Kukapetal wrote:
Forcing them for become the very thing they're fighting against is pretty crappy though.
That said, thanks for reminding me of an alternate way of grinding souls. It really stinks that now I'll have to spend copious amounts of money to grind for souls, making the card even more worthless.
The Soul Shepherd card is EXTREMELY useful now, and will be even moreso in the future. It currently gives 1 Constable Favour and some Connected Society/Bohemian for only 5 Contracts and 50 Souls. It gives 5 Constable Favours and Connected Society/Bohemian for the high-end contracts/souls trade. When they finish converting that's going to be 15 Favours for the expensive trade-in and 3 for the cheaper one. It's an amazing card.
--
I have a Hepta-Goat. Do you have a Hepta-Goat?
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Anthony%20Toran
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Mr Sables
Posts: 597
6/9/2017
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Felicity Anne Stratford wrote:
So it is fair to ask some players to pay all of those things for renown but not others? I think we can agree to disagree here.
I'll let others counter-argue or agree as they see fit, but three final words:
Real-Life Money.
If people are paying cold, hard cash to increase connections, you cannot then send them back to zero, especially when it could be impossible for them to get to 50 and you're also expecting them to pay a fortune in in-game currency to get even close back to where they originally were. Do you go into a restaurant, pay for a meal, then have the waiter snatch it back and go: "sorry, but our policy is to have everyone start at the same time with the same starter, no matter what they ordered or how much they paid"? Like, this is real-life money in some cases.
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genesis
Posts: 924
6/9/2017
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The Soul Shepherd card will be nerfed after all the factions are converted, according to SM9.
The chances of FBG changing the Favour/Renown system so drastically at this late stage are virtually nil. They will likely tweak it after the conversions are done and they *might* tweak the conversion rates for the remaining factions (though I doubt it).
At this stage complaints about the systems are counterproductive and tiresome. Yes it's not ideal but FBG has heard all of these reasons for the last *two* years. For whatever reason they didn't choose to act on them. What those of us who are dissatisfied with the system should be doing is proposing *realistic* changes *going forward* not wishing the past away.
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http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/mikey_thinkin
Keeping track of incomplete content and loose ends in Fallen London
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