GoingFTL
Posts: 113
5/20/2017
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As some of you might remember, I posted about how the Capering Relicker was Utnapishtim, aka Noah of the Ark. Stone is young, around 5,000 years. Utnapishtim, or Tim, is around 12,000 years old, because the Flood was probably the Ice Age ending. Yes, the eccentric man with a mossy cart is older than Stone. I do not know how old the Bazaar is, but Tim might be older than it.
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John Moose
Posts: 276
5/20/2017
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I'm pretty sure Stone predates the first city, although it's pretty impossible to say by how much. We know the sun experimented with reproducing with the Bazaar and hid the result in Neath, and later sent Bazaar on its mission, but with stars and spacecrabs the timescale could be in the thousands of years like the other events of FL, or it could be that the events since the 1st city have been an action packed spurt on star-timescale and that Stone was chucked down when dinosaurs still roamed the earth.
Also, there's quite a difference between saying that 1st city characters were inspired by the Epic of Gilgamesh, and saying that they are those characters - for example, the Manager and Hundreds' story certainly has parallels with Gilgamesh and Enkidu, but the events themselves are completely different. We know the Capering is older than the Manager, that devils fear him, and that he was the first to make Hesperidean Cider, and that's pretty much it. We certainly don't know that he's Noah.
Besides, unless his immortality is from some source we've never heard of instead of the Hesperidean stuff he's famous for making, it'd be rather odd for him to predate Stone since Hesperidean Cider seems to be pretty strongly linked to Stone, after all.
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
5/21/2017
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GoingFTL wrote:
Dudeced by the fact that the Manager calls him uncle, and in the Epic of Gilgamesh, Utnapishtim is Gilgamesh's great-times-how many uncle, and then the biblical Flood being the end of the ice age.
That really seems like a huge stretch to me, with so many leaps of logic:
1. The Manager is not just based on Gilgamesh, but literally is Gilgamesh
2. The Manager calling the Relicker 'uncle' means the Relicker is an actual, genetically-related uncle of Gilgamesh
3. The Relicker is this specific uncle, and invented Cider despite already being immortal (and even telling Gilgamesh to stop looking for immortality in the Epic)
4. Because the Relicker is the protagonist of a flood myth very similar to the biblical one, he must literally be Noah, rather than other explanations making the two characters distinct (one story stole ideas from the other, similar by coincidence, similar because of long-lost storytelling cliches, etc)
5. The biblical flood is the end of the ice age, so it must have happened in that real-life time period, even though by biblical dating the story would then take place before the universe was even created
6. These FL characters are not only the characters from the Epic of Gilgamesh, but never deviate from the Epic's canon
Given his interaction with the Manager, it makes sense that the Capering Relicker is also based on a character from the Epic of Gilgamesh. The Relicker being based on Utnapishtim is a great catch, and the Relicker inventing Cider from apples tied to Stone nicely mirrors Tim's immortality bestowed by the gods. But it just doesn't make sense for the two to be literally the same individual, even without mixing the fictional characters with real-life chronology.
(Also, where did Stone being 5,000 years old come from? I wasn't aware we had any indication of her age.)
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Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
 Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
5/20/2017
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The Capering Relicker is immortal thanks to Hesperidean Cider, which he invented at the time of the First City's fall. So yeah, 12 thousand years old seems a bit unlikely.
--
Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Anchovies
Posts: 421
5/20/2017
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John Moose wrote:
Also, there's quite a difference between saying that 1st city characters were inspired by the Epic of Gilgamesh, and saying that they are those characters - for example, the Manager and Hundreds' story certainly has parallels with Gilgamesh and Enkidu, but the events themselves are completely different. We know the Capering is older than the Manager, that devils fear him, and that he was the first to make Hesperidean Cider, and that's pretty much it. We certainly don't know that he's Noah. I definitely agree with you here. It's important to keep in mind that although on a meta-story level certain characters are based on figures from past human mythology, within the setting of the game it's the other way around - the Neath, Parabola, and certain FL characters/items are the 'truth' behind certain legends from Surface cultures.
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Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God — but to create Him.
—Sir Arthur C Clarke
Lionel Anchovies. Character on indefinite hiatus.
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GoingFTL
Posts: 113
5/21/2017
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Ah. Well, at least half my statement is true. Had no clue that existed. And he's not literally Noah. I 'Noah' that.
edited by GoingFTL on 5/21/2017
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