Jillius
Posts: 36
5/14/2017
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It's been a little over a month since I last actually played Fallen London. I say "actually" because I still make sure not to lose what little Notability I have - but only that, nothing more.
It was also a little over a month ago that I started to notice that I was dissatisfied with the state of the game and wanting to make a constructive forum post about that. I didn't come around to that, as I somehow failed to sort my wants for the game into an orderly text.
Now you see, I like Fallen London a lot, as probably all of you do. But I couldn't help but notice that this love doesn't reflect in what is being done with the game. Or to be more precise, the content. There are two kinds of additions being made: Exceptional Stories and Events. Content outside of that is "sold" almost entirely "as is".
So to get to the reason why I fell out of love, I have nothing to truly work toward anymore. My Ambition, Light Fingers is at 55 and that's as far as it has been written. Nothing new has been added for now over two years.
But sure, there are other things to do. Other things worth looking out for - just not for me. The Overgoat might have a bit of story, but not enough to warrant the grid. The very existence of Hesperidian Cider makes no sense to me - by the time you can afford it, you should not have anything left to do in Fallen London. Getting the best stats possible in the game? What for, just to have them?
Something I would love to see is more character interaction and building on what has already been implemented:
There are so many "Impossible!" requirements at the time on things I would REALLY like to further pursue. So many Acquaintances that are not utilized. So many things that "end" with "That's the last you see of them" were that's actually the last you see of them, never to get a satisfactory conclusion.
And most important to me: so many women I can not woo into a relationship. Like, what the hell do I have this much property for? I literally have an entire orphanage full of children, but I can not make, let alone raise one? Every evening is a free evening if you have no one waitng at home. And even if they don't wait because they are an independent woman and they need no man to pay for their part of the bill, what about my meals? Do I eat alone? Do I eat out every day? Are there no constants to be achieved and build upon?
But it's not like that problem is limited to relationships, there are actually hardly any constant characters to interact with. No beggar living in my garage, no butler telling me where I put me pants, not even my own freaking orphans talk to me.
I don't feel like playing anymore, because aside from there being only little left for me to explore, I feel like there is so much unfinished business along the road, which I know will not be picked up again, that I have lost interest in anything new they would offer me.
DISCLAIMER: Just to clarify, the dinner is an example of meaningful interaction between people who have a more or less lasting connection. I do by no means intent for Fallen London to simply gain a storylet "Eat Dinner" where you can once a day say "it tasted good/bad". That would be silly. At least tell me about your day or something. Have responses based on recent events or whatnot. That would be neat.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Jillius
Whenever I am sent something, I'll try to add a witty line when writing back. Common decency, really.
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Chris Gardiner
Administrator
Posts: 539
5/16/2017
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I'm going to pick out some points and questions from this thread, and address them in one big go. I'm going to be very frank - please don't read any of these responses as grumpiness! But I believe our community is more than capable of engaging with matter-of-fact, behind-the-scenes information that uses lots-of-hyphens. I'm favouring answering as many points as possible over being flowery, here!
phryne wrote:
Is the number of "end-game players" really just such a small percentage of the whole active playerbase?
Yep! We have clear data on that.
But consider the factor of motivation: a lot of newish players learn pretty early (by coming here, or the IRC, or etc...) that the awesome Ambition storyline they just started is unfinished, and has been for many years.
None of our data suggests this is a significant factor in putting people off pursuing the ambitions. I've said this elsewhere on the forum, but it's always worth repeating: only a tiny percentage of Fallen London players ever visit the forum, and only a tiny percentage of those visit IRC.
There are many more significant reasons why people don't reach a content cap, the key one being it takes a very long time! This is a big-ass game.
I'm quite certain that
I confess I wince when I see something like this.  Because "absolutely certain" based on what?
Bear in mind that we have a dedicated analyst on staff, a colossal amount of data, and attend monthly stats meetings where we look in-depth at how people play Fallen London. At these we dig in-depth into specific issues, like re-engagement or recruitment, or even get hyper-specific and look at - for example - why a specific branch is bizarrely popular.
A few comments on your other following points - I'm not picking on you here, I just want to provide clear information:
- 'the very minute you'd announce the implementation of the final Ambition chapters, not only would many slightly jaded early- to mid-content players feel a surge of motivation to continue their game' - no, we have prior data on this. A subset of them would return, and then only when we released the content and deliberately messaged them about its release (a thing we don't like to do too often.)
- 'scores' isn't very many.
- 'maybe get hooked anew, and become paying subscribers' that would certainly be the goal! However, to get the best effect from this requires communications work, supporting content, and careful timing.
We were very pleased with the effect SMEN had (although, based on what you posted above, I suspect it was less than you imagine purely because Seeking was a minority pastime). However, SMEN is the most famous of all Fallen London content, pursued by the most - let's say dedicated, shall we? - of players. It's not a one-to-one comparison with Ambitions. Especially since Ambition content splits the player base in four. Each update to an Ambition is about as much work as an Exceptional Story (i.e. a lot of work), but only targets one-quarter of people at a content cap.
(I'm ecstatic we finished SMEN. I'm doubly ecstatic Alexis wrote it all. It's an exceptional piece of work, unlike anything else in gaming, and no one else could have written it. I will also be ecstatic when we finish the ambitions!)
Jillius wrote:
I can't deny to have felt as if FL was becoming "a thing of the past" and that FBG had started to shift their focus towards other projects.
I can understand this perception, but it's very much the opposite. There have been times before when we had practically no resources to devote to Fallen London (during much of Sunless Sea's development, for example). Now, Exceptional Stories ensure monthly Fallen London content, and we've been adding new (or completely revamping) seasonal events, and using them to insert additional content (e.g., we used the Feast of the Exceptional Rose to introduce the marriage revamp, divorce, and married dates).
What there's been less of is free content outside of seasonal events, and I think that's - completely understandably - at the root of the feeling you describe.
Riful wrote:
Right now your resources obviously dedicated to the Sunless Skies, but after the game's launch and few first patches will there be new content for Fallen London as well?
You won't have to wait that long! Viewers of/listeners to last week's Failbetter podcast will have heard us let slip that a Secret Fallen London project is in the works. We'll be talking about that more soon!
Anne Auclair wrote:
Some of the early to midgame content that was never quite finished could always be put into Exceptional Stories. The story of the Heiress was recently continued in that way.
We've discussed this, but we still feel that - in these cases - if we began a story for free we should conclude it for free. Making people pay for them doesn't sit right with us. It would also make that Exceptional Story harder to access for players who hadn't worked through that free story yet. Exceptional Stories need to work for anyone, regardless of where they are in the game (this is a very challenging requirement to fulfil.)
I'd say the Clay Man's Arm referenced the Heiress story, rather than continued it. The Heiress' story reaches a conclusion in the free content. Elaborating on a story, or potentially providing a different perspective on it, is something that fits
TeslaWalker wrote:
I would however be fine with taking a month or so off from exceptional stories to see progress on everything else.
This is an example of a suggestion where the ramifications are clear to us but probably not to players. Doing this would probably mean cancelling everyone's EF subscriptions without consulting them, then expecting them all to remember to resubscribe after a month. It would require extensive comms and support work. It would also break a clear contract we establish with our Exceptional Friends: that we provide a complete, new story every month - a contract which, I'm proud to say, we haven't broken once in two years.
Delivering a complete, very large interactive story of a standard we're happy with reliably on a specific day every month is a feat I can only describe as Sisyphean. We only manage it because our content team is a grizzled band of goddamn word-vikings. If we make it look easy, then hurrah! But believe me, it isn't.
That few people qualify? Really? I have four characters that I play
Already, this puts you in a tiny minority. By which I don't mean you're doing it wrong! I mean that people play Fallen London in many different ways, and this one is very unusual.
I hope you'll forgive me for linking to an old post I made on this issue, but I think it's relevant here.
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Chris Gardiner
Administrator
Posts: 539
5/16/2017
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Tay1or wrote:
It's kind of funny to think of it this way--but what you're really saying is that this isn't a game for people who like to read. Even if this game is about words and stories--if you truly like to read, you suck this game dry in a matter of months.
No, it's definitely a game for people who love to read. But if you could all read really really slowly that'd be great kthxbye
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TheThirdPolice
Posts: 609
5/17/2017
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Chris Gardiner wrote:
Want to see one of the bewilderingly popular branches that our analytics dug up?
Be warned: What's Behind This Spoiler Tag Will Shock You.
Introducing Mr Huffam's Click Bait Head-Lines!
Forewarn Yourself: Man Was Not Meant to Know About Discount Murgatroyd's Biscuits
You Won't Believe Your Eyes Nor Trust Nor Love Evermore Once You Try Black Wings Absinthe
Do You Know Who's Who? No? Ho Ho! Slowcake's Exceptionally Abridged Edition: The Best, For The Rest
The Brass Embassy Hates This Trick: Case Their Vaults of Gold by Stealing Paintings For The Topsy King
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Excessive Corpse & Tender to Irreal Ravens
Lover of Flawed Souls
And with especial pride, Worst Screwup of the Decade!
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Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
5/15/2017
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Pumpkinhead wrote:
It's still pretty time consuming to plug this stuff into storynexus. Also they'd have to proofread and probably rewrite so it doesn't contradict lore. But it's not a terrible idea.
Yes it is. We played these ambitions assuming that the writers had an idea where they would lead and had an interesting finale planned out for us. And I, for one, still believe that. I want the real ending of the story I invested in, not somebody's glorified fanfiction.
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Silverias
Posts: 123
5/15/2017
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I think the belief about Ambitions having an infinitesimal audience is kinda circular.
People don't work on ambitions because they have massive investments of time and resources for no actual resolution...so they don't do them. Hell. People on the forums are specifically told to wait until they're finished to actually work on them.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Silverias
Stop by and say hello, I'm a correspondent if you need someone to teach your kids.
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Chris Gardiner
Administrator
Posts: 539
5/17/2017
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Want to see one of the bewilderingly popular branches that our analytics dug up?
Be warned: What's Behind This Spoiler Tag Will Shock You.
[spoiler] 
[/spoiler]
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Estelle Knoht
Posts: 1751
5/18/2017
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#Ambitions2012
The new content like SMEN's Revenge, Election, Sinning Jenny's School and the newer Exceptional Stories all have very nice and different structure and mechanics and so on, when compared to the older stories.
It's sort of a silver lining (your mileage may vary), but when they come they would probably be done much better than what we might have got if it was on schedule.
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Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady.
I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
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PSGarak
Posts: 834
5/16/2017
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Thank you, Chris, for taking the time to communicate with us. I want you to know that I, for one, appreciate the time & effort it takes to speak both frankly and publically (especially if, as you say, a forum post will only reach a minority of players). Most developers don't want to deal with the potential minefield, and I'm glad that you do. While I truly wish the Ambitions would see an update, I at least feel a little better knowing the reason why.
Is there any chance you could give us a few inklings of what your stats team uncovers that would surprise us? I understand if that information is proprietary, but I for one would love to see, at least, in general terms, what fraction of the user base has hit various content barriers or milestones (e.g. POSI, stat-capped, top-tier professions, Making Name 7).
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http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/PSGarak
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phryne
Posts: 1351
5/16/2017
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Chris Gardiner wrote:
SNIP Thank you for that long and detailed answer! Don't worry, I don't feel picked upon - indeed, I was very much aware that my points were pure speculation based on my 'feelings' and 'perceptions' as a dedicated and active player and community member. Wheedling some insights of the kind you just provided out of you was exactly what I was aiming for! 
Chris Gardiner wrote:
We've discussed this, but we still feel that - in these cases - if we began a story for free we should conclude it for free. That is very good news!
PSGarak wrote:
Is there any chance you could give us a few inklings of what your stats team uncovers that would surprise us? I understand if that information is proprietary, but I for one would love to see, at least, in general terms, what fraction of the user base has hit various content barriers or milestones (e.g. POSI, stat-capped, top-tier professions, Making Name 7). Being a notoriously curious person, I have to chime in here: I would simply LOVE to have a look at any data or statistics you'd let us see! 
edited by phryne on 5/16/2017
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Accounts: Bag a Legend • Light Fingers • Heart's Desire • Nemesis • no ambition
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writer ― Favours & Renown Guide
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Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1789
5/16/2017
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There is one thing that makes players more prickly I think: the useless cards that keep reminding us that some storylines are not finished. I had forgotten about the sprifer and the pianist but the palace cellars and sympathetic about ratly concerns cards seem like taunts. If they were removes once you got to a certain point, then re-introduced when there was new content, there would be no constant reminders of "oh! what is happening with that?"
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Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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Chris Gardiner
Administrator
Posts: 539
5/15/2017
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Kukapetal wrote:
We played these ambitions assuming that the writers had an idea where they would lead and had an interesting finale planned out for us. And I, for one, still believe that.
If it puts your mind at rest, we've had rough outlines for how the ambitions would end sketched out from very early days of FBG, and we developed those into completely-plotted outlines for the final chapters years ago.
The delay on ambitions isn't because we don't know how they end! It's purely because an infinitesimally small number of players qualify to see them, which means its hard to prioritise them over other content. That's not to say they'll never happen - they will! But the stars need to align.
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Yeah
Posts: 67
5/15/2017
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While I'm perfectly content with grinding away in the game the way it is, I can't deny that a handful of "Impossible!" options bother me, especially considering the vast majority of them are in the beginning of the game, from what I remember. I grew quite attached to my blind pianist friend in the short amount of time I interacted with her, way back when I was just starting out in Veilgarden. When I reached the end of her short storyline, and got a message saying "This will be updated soon!", I decided to check the wiki, only to find out that story seems to have been made in 2013 then completely forgotten. Same with The Last Constable's story, though I suppose that /was/ completed in Sunless Sea, to some degree.
And don't get me wrong, I understand why they can't update these old stories. What with production on Sunless Skies, and the outright need to continue making EF stories in order to keep doors open, the FailBetter team must be absolutely swamped with work. Still, it would be nice to see some conclusions to old stories, or continuations to Ambitions, or more factions converted to favours.
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Yeah Man - A Bleeding-heart hoarder of curiosities.
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xKiv
Posts: 846
5/15/2017
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I somehow got the impression that many of those writers might not even be on board anymore.
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https://www.fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xKiv - a witchful, percussive, dangermous and shadowry scholar of coexplodence, hopsidirean, and walker of fallen kitties.
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Saklad
Posts: 528
5/16/2017
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I’m quite happy with Fallen London, and I really do love that you are so concerned with the playerbase as a whole. Thank you for engaging in this thread as well, despite having tough answers like lack of priority.
Ideally, there’d be enough time for you to devote a small slice of time to finishing a free story that has already started, perhaps every few months. This is clearly not as reasonable as it sounds, since you’d otherwise be doing it already.
I’d suggest some sort of Patreon-like scheme where people donate to make certain free stories higher-priority, paying upon the release of the content updates, but it sounds like the main problem here is time.
If I could donate barrels of hours à la Sunless Skies, I would. In lieu of that, I can only commend your existing efforts and encourage you to keep up the good work.
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Saklad5, a man of many talents
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Jillius
Posts: 36
5/15/2017
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Chris Gardiner wrote:
The delay on ambitions isn't because we don't know how they end! It's purely because an infinitesimally small number of players qualify to see them, which means its hard to prioritise them over other content. That's not to say they'll never happen - they will! But the stars need to align.
Now this is a statement. But I have to fall in line with Riful wrote:
Excuse my curiosity, but what is the most priority story-content then (other than monthly exceptional stories, of course)? There is quite a lot of unfinished story branches, not only ambitions - the Last Constable, the Dilmun Club, Watchmaker's daughter etc. [...]
There is a lot of early- to mid-game content that would probably have a broader audience. And while there are a bunch of people who inexplicably maintain several active accounts, giving people a realistic option to go through the content they did not choose might help getting more people to see it. I mean, you created Honey-Dreams, what's stopping you from letting people pursue another ambition in there?
I can only speak for myself, but the fact that you can still say "It's coming! ...someday." is a really big deal. In the year I have been playing, I can't deny to have felt as if FL was becoming "a thing of the past" and that FBG had started to shift their focus towards other projects. Adding any non-event content would already send an important message.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Jillius
Whenever I am sent something, I'll try to add a witty line when writing back. Common decency, really.
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
5/18/2017
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Far as I can tell, everyone except the third city seems to be painted rather well.
First-sympathetic manager (in his defense, his was the first city stolen. I don't think "we're going to kidnap all of your citizens using godlike powers" was quite what he imagined)
Second-a false city, minimizing casualties, and someone who outsmarted the bazaar and the masters
Third-all round terrible people
Fourth-sold the city to save it from the army outside its walls, and prevent all of their citizens from being killed.
Fifth-well, I think you know. Not exactly the best, but I think there's some things we don't know.
They're just not quite as active in their content, or more obscure/fate locked, or even in another game, so sadly we see less discussion on them.
edited by suinicide on 5/18/2017
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Kaijyuu
Posts: 1047
5/17/2017
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I'd love the Palace Cellars finished. Not because I care about the story, no, but because I'm bitter about my character being irrevocably damaged because I didn't check the wiki before playing a card. Same goes for the Struggling Artist. It's fine that there are junk cards in our decks, it's not so fine that there are avoidable yet unremovable junk cards in our decks.
edited by Kaijyuu on 5/17/2017
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Be of good cheer. Our contacts have assured us that your sins are forgiven.
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Luminen Walker
Posts: 172
5/15/2017
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I'd rather get proper continuations for everyone than a brief story that wraps it up or one that only those who pay see it.
I would however be fine with taking a month or so off from exceptional stories to see progress on everything else.
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1 - Cpt. Martin Walker, a Paramount and Marvellous Dreamer.
2 - Ariana Crivelli, a silent and sagacious lady.
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John Moose
Posts: 276
5/17/2017
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Oddly fitting. I remember few things from back when I first started playing, but the Merry Gentleman's card really imprinted itself into my memory. There's something awfully menacing about the interaction when you still don't understand the world of FL. I'm surprised but happy to hear he gets lots of gifts.
CLEFT FOR THEE HIDE IN ME
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Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
5/17/2017
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John Moose wrote:
Oddly fitting. I remember few things from back when I first started playing, but the Merry Gentleman's card really imprinted itself into my memory. There's something awfully menacing about the interaction when you still don't understand the world of FL. I'm surprised but happy to hear he gets lots of gifts.
CLEFT FOR THEE HIDE IN ME
I can't tell you how much fate I'd pay for the option to murder him horribly rather than give him a gift. I feel the same way about him as most of you feel about the Mooching Artist :P
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Kaijyuu
Posts: 1047
5/17/2017
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Amalgamate wrote:
How can you irrevocably damage your character in the palace cellars? I'm looking at the wiki and don't see anything like that...
The "A Nocturnal Visitor to the Palace Cellars" attribute is avoidable but impossible to get rid of, and the card that initially gives it is locked with high shadowy. Ergo, it's possible to entirely avoid having a palace cellars card cluttering your deck, though difficult to avoid if you're a new player who's just playing stories that come along.
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Be of good cheer. Our contacts have assured us that your sins are forgiven.
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Kaijyuu
Posts: 1047
5/18/2017
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@Kuka: Fair 'nough.
I guess I've never been too judgemental toward the various city leaders since selling out their populace is what most leaders do anyway. This time it was just a bit more literal.
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Be of good cheer. Our contacts have assured us that your sins are forgiven.
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Kaijyuu
Posts: 1047
5/18/2017
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It's true he's rather clingy toward his ex but that's hardly something worth disgust. Throughout Heart's Desire I felt nothing but pity for the guy.
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Be of good cheer. Our contacts have assured us that your sins are forgiven.
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Tay1or
Posts: 163
5/16/2017
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Chris Gardiner wrote:
Kukapetal wrote:
We played these ambitions assuming that the writers had an idea where they would lead and had an interesting finale planned out for us. And I, for one, still believe that.
If it puts your mind at rest, we've had rough outlines for how the ambitions would end sketched out from very early days of FBG, and we developed those into completely-plotted outlines for the final chapters years ago.
The delay on ambitions isn't because we don't know how they end! It's purely because an infinitesimally small number of players qualify to see them, which means its hard to prioritise them over other content. That's not to say they'll never happen - they will! But the stars need to align.
That few people qualify? Really? I have four characters that I play, and I've reached the end of each ambition story line--one per character. It wasn't really that hard. What I hate is the cards for the cellar and the toys and the other stories that don't end, so I don't bother with them. I played them on my main character, found out they petered into nothing, and didn't bother for the other three. There's so much repetition in the game, I'm not sure how much content there really is. I'm grinding to get SoC 21 for my main character, but I'm not sure why since even if I get there, there's not really any content that goes with achieving it--there's not really any story to the correspondence at all--it's kind of an empty shell.
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Amalgamate
Posts: 435
5/16/2017
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I mean, regardless of what they work on, it's pretty easy to play through content faster than they can write it. That's just the long and short of it - it takes weeks for a player to finish what took FBG years to write. (And that's pretty normal! Compare how long it takes to write a book with how long it takes to read it...)
As of a few years ago, Fallen London was 1.5 million words. (According to http://www.failbettergames.com/why-is-fallen-london-still-free-to-play/ - by the way, a good read on this topic). That's more than all the harry potter books combined. (That blog post has been a few years ago - by now, I'm sure they're up at "All of Harry Potter plus the Hobbit AND the Lord of the Rings Trilogy for sure, and maybe even the Silmarillion).
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http://www.fallenlondon.com/Profile/amalgamate
Social invitations of all kinds welcome, especially games of chess and deadly sparring!
Also happy to help with nightmares, send sips of Cider, and plant battle.
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Anchovies
Posts: 421
5/15/2017
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The Barbed Wit is a great example for the former Well, I certainly had a good time interacting with the Wit, because the story events were fun and the progress actions had little secondary rewards which made them feel more productive. It would be nice, though, if there were some way to interact with the Wit (or the Acclaimed Beauty, if you're boring) now that I've made my way back to the court to work towards Artist-in-Residence. Perhaps each of them, if previously romanced, could be available to help with the player's creative work?
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Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God — but to create Him.
—Sir Arthur C Clarke
Lionel Anchovies. Character on indefinite hiatus.
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heavensdark
Posts: 60
5/15/2017
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I greatly sympathize here for I have also reached an end to my rope. I recently found that there is just a little more I can do in Fallen London to not pull me out completely but I subscribed for the first time as an Exceptional Friend out of boredom to see if I got anything new or more out of the experience. I was sad to see it did not do enough for me. I, too, have completed what I can of the Light Fingers ambition and am upset that there is nowhere left to go. I don't hold my breath for long either.
Currently, I play out of habit and to keep my idle mind occupied with something while I whittle away hours.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/heavensdark
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An Individual
Posts: 589
5/15/2017
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Catherine Raymond wrote:
Gillsing wrote:
Jillius wrote:
And most important to me: so many women I can not woo into a relationship.
They do have the option to get into relationships with other player characters. It's funny though, because the focus on love is one of the things that lessened my own enjoyment of the game. I began to find it rather uninteresting to delve deep into mysteries that all promised to be about love in some weird way.
Then perhaps FL is not for you. The keynote of the lore is that anything involving the Bazaar has to do with love, in one form or other.
If we want to get nit picky, the overarching theme of Fallen London is "love and desire, and what price you're prepared to pay for them." There are love stories in there, but there are also many stories that fall under the broader heading of desire and almost all of them focus on that last bit; the price.
I feel you on the content thing. Having recently acquired my cider and completed Seeking (turning back) I've been feeling a little adrift. However, the unfortunate truth is that there is no amount of content that will sate the masses. Whatever they create, we more dedicated players will quickly consume and begin demanding more of. And we are also something of a vocal minority. Most players who start Fallen London don't make it to their Ambition cap. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if most of them never made reached POSI status. The unfortunate truth is that Failbetter are likely better off focusing their energy on creating new games like Sunless Skies than they are catering to the few people in the Fallen London end game.
edited by An Individual on 5/15/2017
--
An Individual's Profile
The RNG giveth and the RNG taketh away.
Goat Farming or Cider Brewing? This browser extension may help.
Want a Cider sip? Please refer to this guide before requesting.
Scholaring the Correspondence? A Brief Guide to Courier's Footprint.
Contemplating Oblivion? First Steps on the Seeking Road.
Gone NORTH? Opened the gate? Throw your character in a well.
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Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
5/15/2017
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Chris Gardiner wrote:
If it puts your mind at rest, we've had rough outlines for how the ambitions would end sketched out from very early days of FBG, and we developed those into completely-plotted outlines for the final chapters years ago.
The delay on ambitions isn't because we don't know how they end! It's purely because an infinitesimally small number of players qualify to see them, which means its hard to prioritise them over other content. That's not to say they'll never happen - they will! But the stars need to align.
I figured as much, which is why I'd rather wait for the real endings, however long that may be, than be stuck with someone's fanfiction instead.
Thanks for letting us know what the situation is
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phryne
Posts: 1351
5/15/2017
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Chris Gardiner wrote:
The delay on ambitions isn't because we don't know how they end! It's purely because an infinitesimally small number of players qualify to see them, which means its hard to prioritise them over other content. Now this somewhat surprises me. Is the number of "end-game players" really just such a small percentage of the whole active playerbase? (I suppose you have ways to monitor the number of active players, both paying and non-paying)
I have some trouble to believe in that "infinitesimally small number of players" - maybe at the time of first implementing the content, yes. But consider the factor of motivation: a lot of newish players learn pretty early (by coming here, or the IRC, or etc...) that the awesome Ambition storyline they just started is unfinished, and has been for many years. If I was a new player who had just joined, I'd probably find that a bit off-putting. (Not to speak of those who don't know about the game's unfinished state and hit the content boundary unexpectedly.)
I'm quite certain that the very minute you'd announce the implementation of the final Ambition chapters, not only would many slightly jaded early- to mid-content players feel a surge of motivation to continue their game - no, you'd also see scores of inactive players return to finish their Ambition (and maybe get hooked anew, and become paying subscribers...). Quite the way the implementation of SMEN last year around this time probably did.
edited by phryne on 5/15/2017
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Accounts: Bag a Legend • Light Fingers • Heart's Desire • Nemesis • no ambition
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writer ― Favours & Renown Guide
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Riful
Posts: 12
5/15/2017
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Chris Gardiner wrote:
If it puts your mind at rest, we've had rough outlines for how the ambitions would end sketched out from very early days of FBG, and we developed those into completely-plotted outlines for the final chapters years ago.
The delay on ambitions isn't because we don't know how they end! It's purely because an infinitesimally small number of players qualify to see them, which means its hard to prioritise them over other content. That's not to say they'll never happen - they will! But the stars need to align.
Excuse my curiosity, but what is the most priority story-content then (other than monthly exceptional stories, of course)? There is quite a lot of unfinished story branches, not only ambitions - the Last Constable, the Dilmun Club, Watchmaker's daughter etc. Right now your resources obviously dedicated to the Sunless Skies, but after the game's launch and few first patches will there be new content for Fallen London as well?
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Kaijyuu
Posts: 1047
5/15/2017
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Anne Auclair wrote:
Love is a bit more than sex, romance, and weddings.
It's also laughter, compromise, patience, understanding, subtle dirty flirting in public, diagnosing strange skin conditions, and occasionally babies.
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Be of good cheer. Our contacts have assured us that your sins are forgiven.
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Mr Sables
Posts: 597
5/15/2017
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Yeah wrote:
And don't get me wrong, I understand why they can't update these old stories. What with production on Sunless Skies, and the outright need to continue making EF stories in order to keep doors open, the FailBetter team must be absolutely swamped with work. Still, it would be nice to see some conclusions to old stories, or continuations to Ambitions, or more factions converted to favours.
I'm a little curious about this . . .
I don't know FBG's schedule, true, but if it's just about the workload, maybe there are ways around it? What about competitions, where fans/players could write their own endings to ambitions or unfinished content? It'd kill two birds with one stone: the winning piece could be used to give an actual ending to the unfinished content, and it'd also provide publicity/advertising for the game, getting new players. I'm not sure how feasible that would be, though.
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Gillsing
Posts: 1203
5/14/2017
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Jillius wrote:
And most important to me: so many women I can not woo into a relationship.
They do have the option to get into relationships with other player characters. It's funny though, because the focus on love is one of the things that lessened my own enjoyment of the game. I began to find it rather uninteresting to delve deep into mysteries that all promised to be about love in some weird way.
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Jillius
Posts: 36
5/15/2017
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Gillsing wrote:
Jillius wrote:
And most important to me: so many women I can not woo into a relationship.
They do have the option to get into relationships with other player characters. It's funny though, because the focus on love is one of the things that lessened my own enjoyment of the game. I began to find it rather uninteresting to delve deep into mysteries that all promised to be about love in some weird way.
This would require some elaboration? After all, outside of player relationships the game has little to offer in that regard. Aside from the Model and the Thief, all romantic interactions are a means for you to achieve something else, or, when it's between NPCs, a cause for some of the events you have to deal with. The Barbed Wit is a great example for the former, A Finder of Heiresses an example for the latter. The Firebrand and the Missionary are an example for both, with the added benefit of being left without an actual conclusion to the characters.
And again, as much as I'd like a Fallen London Dating Sim, it's only one of the symptoms. The lack of continuity and permanence in actions and interactions is - to me - not longer bearable. You could say the silence is deafening.
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Jillius
Whenever I am sent something, I'll try to add a witty line when writing back. Common decency, really.
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Tay1or
Posts: 163
5/16/2017
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It's kind of funny to think of it this way--but what you're really saying is that this isn't a game for people who like to read. Even if this game is about words and stories--if you truly like to read, you suck this game dry in a matter of months.
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Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
5/18/2017
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It's not. She's evil too. But the Manager seems to be painted as a purely tragic figure by the narration and pitied by a lot of the players, while the other three city-sellers aren't treated nearly so sympathetically.
I'd honestly like him a lot more if it was acknowledged that, while his motive might have been sympathetic, what he did was still horrific. I like tragic villains. I don't like it when people seem to forget they're villains
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Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1789
5/19/2017
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They are definitely better. And it is very understandable that a game that has the quality of Fallen London takes time to make.
My Ambition is Heart's desire, so I do not feel in a hurry to complete it - the card game will be set when the time comes. Storywise, it remains satisfying to me. What I would like is a story or a grind where I can use my elevated stats. The hardest Flash lay is an example, and the expeditions are another. Having maxed stats makes a difference there.
Not that I do not appreciate the game in its entirety, and the montly ES keeps adding to the lore, but variety helps. When Jenny's school was added, the game became much more enjoyable because even when I had two full candles I could play, replenish the cards and expend my actions in a fun and profitable way. Extra challenges would keep more people glued to the screen.
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Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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Aberrant Eremite
Posts: 362
5/18/2017
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Anchovies wrote:
Hungry people, at least. Where can more about them be learned in-game? Is it all SMEN material, or is there some Third City background info present elsewhere?
Hungry, yes. Some people think that Mesoamerican cultures developed more anthropophagic traditions because corn was an inadequate protein source and they had few domesticated animals. But some think that the amount of cannibalism in America was vastly overstated by Europeans as part of the process of othering non-European societies.
Anyway, there is some Third City content around, in obscure places like the Nadir and the Fidgeting Writer story.
[spoiler]
I think that the leaders of the Third City did gain a lot of power and some degree of immortality by eating Mr. Candles. Many of them rebelled and remain trapped in the Nadir to this day. Others wound up in an obscure Tomb-Colony, which the Paronomastic Newshound once visited, and from which they occasionally trouble sensitive writers: the Cat, the Serpent, the Red Bird. [/spoiler]
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Hieronymus Drake: Gentleman scholar, big-game hunter, scar-faced aristocrat. Remarkably sane, all things considered.
Tanith Wyrmwood: Longshanks cat-burglar; Bohemian author; now, perhaps, something more. Bubbly, expressive, and affectionate. It’s not only still waters that run deep.
Telemachia Lee: Gentle lady by birth, brawling Docker by choice. Good company in the drunk tank.
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Lady Sapho Byron
Posts: 770
5/18/2017
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Kukapetal wrote:
I can't tell you how much fate I'd pay for the option to murder him horribly rather than give him a gift. I feel the same way about him as most of you feel about the Mooching Artist :P
Yaaaasssss.
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http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Lady%20Sapho%20L%20Byron
Fighting the Menace of Corsetry Since 1892.
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annalibertas
Posts: 161
5/17/2017
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I imagine its way harder to track but I wonder how many people intentionally raised their nightmares so they could play that branch (I happen to know its at least one....)
As for the original complaints, I've also been frustrated at times about lack of content, especially in respects to story cards that can no longer be progressed (the cellar especially) but I've also found plenty of ways to entertain myself while I wait which has distinctly lessened the sting. I'm incredibly grateful for FBG being so dedicated to keeping such large swaths of the game completely free, even if I've played most of that content to completion on my main
--
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Anna%20Libertas
Accepting all social actions & boxed cats
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Julliah%20Randolph
Alt, will accept all social actions whenever I log on
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
5/18/2017
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Kukapetal wrote:
Kaijyuu wrote:
Aww he seems a nice guy.
Once you learn his backstory, you'll find out he most definitely is NOT.
I'll take an annoying leech of a painter over this creepy, annoying, lying, betraying, committer of crimes against humanity any day of the week.
Wait, which one are we talking about now?
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
5/17/2017
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Harlocke wrote:
Chris Gardiner wrote:
Want to see one of the bewilderingly popular branches that our analytics dug up?
Be warned: What's Behind This Spoiler Tag Will Shock You.
[spoiler]
[/spoiler]
That kind of makes sense. Every single player will see this non-discardable card when their nightmares get high. And the mysterious phrase "substantial treasure" will pique anyone's interest. As a marketing case study, it's hard to beat an ubiquitous message plus alluring promises of treasure.
"Or you can trade it all in for what's in this box!"
edited by Anne Auclair on 5/17/2017
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Harlocke
Posts: 506
5/17/2017
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Chris Gardiner wrote:
Want to see one of the bewilderingly popular branches that our analytics dug up?
Be warned: What's Behind This Spoiler Tag Will Shock You.
[spoiler]
[/spoiler]
That kind of makes sense. Every single player will see this non-discardable card when their nightmares get high. And the mysterious phrase "substantial treasure" will pique anyone's interest. As a marketing case study, it's hard to beat an ubiquitous message plus alluring promises of treasure.
--
I welcome social actions, and can visit your salon as an author.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Harlocke
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Ragnar Degenhand
Posts: 197
5/17/2017
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Thank you, Chris for some fascinating insights. Most interesting to me was the fact that some branches are what you call "bizarrely popular". I'm not sure what this covers, but I adore expeditions and the whole archaeology branch. I could do them all day if I didn't run out of supplies. I think it's the romance, myself...!
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Ragnar%20Degenhand
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Kaijyuu
Posts: 1047
5/17/2017
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Aww he seems a nice guy.
--
Be of good cheer. Our contacts have assured us that your sins are forgiven.
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Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1789
5/18/2017
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I am always surprised by how much lore slips between the cracks. I searched pretty extensively for that as I used Fallen London in an RPG session, and still I find new things.
--
Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
5/18/2017
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TheThirdPolice wrote:
the pharoah's daughters and their traitorous accomplice Master Candles
I don't think this part is accurate, or at least is never confirmed in canon. Iirc the most that's ever stated is that Mr Candles was more sympathetic than the other Masters, who were all pissed off at the trick.
Aberrant Eremite wrote:
[spoiler]
I think that the leaders of the Third City did gain a lot of power and some degree of immortality by eating Mr. Candles. Many of them rebelled and remain trapped in the Nadir to this day. Others wound up in an obscure Tomb-Colony, which the Paronomastic Newshound once visited, and from which they occasionally trouble sensitive writers: the Cat, the Serpent, the Red Bird. [/spoiler]
I'm pretty sure that only the three with fancy names actually got to eat, since they're the only ones we hear about with that mediocre immortality. The 55 Third City revolutionaries in the Nadir are all dead after all.
There were five others who visited Xibalba along with the Paranomastic Newshound: the Northbound Parliamentarian, Reclusive Turophile, Cat-Beset Perfectionist, Bawdy Cardsharp, and Libertarian Esotericist. All of them have cards based on The Silver Tree KS backers, but sadly only the Newshound and Parliamentarian can still be drawn.
--
Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
 Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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TheThirdPolice
Posts: 609
5/18/2017
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I don't think I've played that ES, but Second City lore is pretty well-developed in various corners of free content. In real history, a heretic pharaoh built Akhetaten (modern name Amarna), made it the capital of Egypt, and settled it for less than a generation before his death. The city was then abandoned and the old pharoah's brief new religion expunged.
In the Neath version of events, this was all an intentional ploy. The Bazaar needs powerful cities at the center of events to generate its love and whatever else it feeds on. By selling a capital city which almost immediately lost these attributes, the pharoah's daughters and their traitorous accomplice Master Candles trapped the Bazaar in the Second City for many centuries. The Masters were angry and dreaming in hieroglyphs by the time they made contact with the mysterious God Eaters of the Third City, and finally achieved vengeance and a new city.
--
Excessive Corpse & Tender to Irreal Ravens
Lover of Flawed Souls
And with especial pride, Worst Screwup of the Decade!
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Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
5/18/2017
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He sold an entire city full of people to evil space monsters. He was their king, and he had a duty to protect them, and he sold them like animals. And the only thing he regrets about his actions is that his snookums doesn't love him anymore.
He committed both a crime against humanity and a betrayal of his own people on a massive scale, and he doesn't care. He's just sad the space bats got the better of him.
He's evil.
And annoying :P
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Teaspoon
Posts: 866
5/18/2017
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So, ah, how is this different from dear old Queen Vic again?
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Truth lies at the bottom of a well.
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Alt%20Ern
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Anchovies
Posts: 421
5/18/2017
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Maybe we should start referring to that brass-buttoned fellow as Traitor Manager.
suinicide wrote:
Second-a false city, minimizing casualties, and someone who outsmarted the bazaar and the masters How so? Was Amarna offered after Akenhaten's death and the city's subsequent abandonment?
suinicide wrote:
Third-all round terrible people Hungry people, at least. Where can more about them be learned in-game? Is it all SMEN material, or is there some Third City background info present elsewhere?
edited by Anchovies on 5/18/2017
--
Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God — but to create Him.
—Sir Arthur C Clarke
Lionel Anchovies. Character on indefinite hiatus.
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
5/15/2017
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Some of the early to midgame content that was never quite finished could always be put into Exceptional Stories. The story of the Heiress was recently continued in that way.
I'd suggest The Spirifer and the Pianist as the best candidate for a continuing Exceptional Story. There are mysteries and events in that story that you danced around with but never really got into. Meanwhile, players who have never encountered the Shallow Spirifer or the Devil Pianist could quickly be brought up to speed.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Jillius
Posts: 36
5/16/2017
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First I want to say that I truly appreciate the time you took to answer!
Chris Gardiner wrote:
[On Ambitions]
This all reminds me of World of Warcraft. In case you are not familiar with it, the MMO-RPG WoW has been around since 2004 I think and every few years a new content boarder is introduced. With every subsequent expansion, people became vocal over changes and, most often, about how it has started to cater far too much to the casual playerbase.
You see, back in the day the grind was real. It took really long to hit the level cap, and even longer to reach the content cap. In fact, the content cap in the original (Vanilla) WoW has allegedly only been reached by <1% of the players. Yet even those who never got that far seem to reminiscence of the good old days when they had to walk 10km in the snow, uphill, to and from school. There are a myriad forum post about how back then everything was better in that regard - with diverging opinions, of course.
What I am getting at is, despite people never having set foot into content, knowing it was there seemed to be an important part of how they perceived the world.
While searching for the actual number of Vanilla Naxxramas players, I found this in a forum:
Some WoW player wrote:
From a developer standpoint, if they're putting that much time and effort into making that content, it would be at least a little disheartening if people didn't get a chance to see it.
Now World of Warcraft can also be taken as an example for another aspect when it comes to "end-game content": The original Level Cap was 60. Instead of adding ever more stuff geared for End-Game geared players (best equipment, etc.) they release a new level cap and "evened the field" for everyone, new and old.
Don't get me wrong, I know World of Warcraft and Fallen London are very different in all regards, but the "Content - When and Where" question is an issue for every game with no definitive end.
And thinking about it, I can not say I know of a right answer to that question, despite a long history in the field of observational studies.
Chris Gardiner wrote:
Bear in mind that we have a dedicated analyst on staff, a colossal amount of data, and attend monthly stats meetings where we look in-depth at how people play Fallen London. At these we dig in-depth into specific issues, like re-engagement or recruitment, or even get hyper-specific and look at - for example - why a specific branch is bizarrely popular.
I understand that the problem at heart is how to reach the most players. In that vein, I can also see how continuation of content might not even be among the top choices to achieve that - how often have features been introduced in a game where I had to think to myself "This was not made for you, but to appeal to a broader audience."
Regardless of all that, again, thank you for taking the time to engage with the playerbase in the way you do.
edited by Jillius on 5/17/2017
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Jillius
Whenever I am sent something, I'll try to add a witty line when writing back. Common decency, really.
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Pumpkinhead
Posts: 516
5/15/2017
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I'm fairly certain that they've said they have enough people now that some of them are working on skies, and some of them are working on FL. I don't think FL is being put on the backburner.
--
McGunn/Bsymstad is on the slow boat, waiting to see if he can find out what death is. (I'm done with London for now. Thanks for everything!)
Amanda Albright is a *spoiler* now, like she always wanted.
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Catherine Raymond
Posts: 2518
5/14/2017
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Gillsing wrote:
Jillius wrote:
And most important to me: so many women I can not woo into a relationship.
They do have the option to get into relationships with other player characters. It's funny though, because the focus on love is one of the things that lessened my own enjoyment of the game. I began to find it rather uninteresting to delve deep into mysteries that all promised to be about love in some weird way.
Then perhaps FL is not for you. The keynote of the lore is that anything involving the Bazaar has to do with love, in one form or other.
--
Cathy Raymond
http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/cathyr19355
Catherine Raymond aka Mrs. Rykar Malkus http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Catherine%20Raymond (Gone NORTH)
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Pumpkinhead
Posts: 516
5/15/2017
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It's still pretty time consuming to plug this stuff into storynexus. Also they'd have to proofread and probably rewrite so it doesn't contradict lore. But it's not a terrible idea.
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McGunn/Bsymstad is on the slow boat, waiting to see if he can find out what death is. (I'm done with London for now. Thanks for everything!)
Amanda Albright is a *spoiler* now, like she always wanted.
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
5/15/2017
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Catherine Raymond wrote:
Gillsing wrote:
Jillius wrote:
And most important to me: so many women I can not woo into a relationship.
They do have the option to get into relationships with other player characters. It's funny though, because the focus on love is one of the things that lessened my own enjoyment of the game. I began to find it rather uninteresting to delve deep into mysteries that all promised to be about love in some weird way.
Then perhaps FL is not for you. The keynote of the lore is that anything involving the Bazaar has to do with love, in one form or other.
Love is a bit more than sex, romance, and weddings.
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Luminen Walker
Posts: 172
5/16/2017
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Chris Gardiner wrote:
This is an example of a suggestion where the ramifications are clear to us but probably not to players. Doing this would probably mean cancelling everyone's EF subscriptions without consulting them, then expecting them all to remember to resubscribe after a month. It would require extensive comms and support work. It would also break a clear contract we establish with our Exceptional Friends: that we provide a complete, new story every month - a contract which, I'm proud to say, we haven't broken once in two years.
I was stating that I would be willing to continue paying without getting exceptional stories to see progress on everything else. I understand the ramifications. What I'd suggest determining if anyone is thinking like I am with... perhaps a poll storylet either visible to all players or exceptional friends that asks "Would you as an exceptional friend be fine with not having an exceptional story next month if instead the rest of the game is worked on?"
I'd be surprised if the majority didn't want that or more correctly I suppose disappointed. If a single EF isn't fine with this in the time you run it then clearly people want ES each month rather than the rest of things being put together and you can't help that...
I do respect you and your company (and I've rather enjoyed your products) but it does rather frustrate me that I've began to think that the things that have been waiting since I started are probably to stay unfinished and I primarily blame the focus on stories I usually blow through out of desperation for content. There are no mysteries left because I already know where all of them are sitting waiting and those that take effort to reach I can wait to approach as I've been spoiled by people casually warning that there's no resolution to them yet and for those one casually reaches it's even worse because it's immediately apparent.
As you responded with mention of a secret project to someone asking a similar question. When Sunless Skies is 'finished' and out of early access is Fallen London going to have any of its hanging threads worked upon?
--
1 - Cpt. Martin Walker, a Paramount and Marvellous Dreamer.
2 - Ariana Crivelli, a silent and sagacious lady.
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crazyroosterman
Posts: 187
5/16/2017
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Jolanda Swan wrote:
There is one thing that makes players more prickly I think: the useless cards that keep reminding us that some storylines are not finished. I had forgotten about the sprifer and the pianist but the palace cellars and sympathetic about ratly concerns cards seem like taunts. If they were removes once you got to a certain point, then re-introduced when there was new content, there would be no constant reminders of "oh! what is happening with that?" is the palace cellars unfinished? that would explain how despite all my visits it whont go above 5 makes me sad though ):.
on the topic at hand though personally im content with my ambition as it is at the moment......even though that lady im meant to be saving is probably horrifically damaged by now........
may i ask though if this secret project is targeted towards current unfinished content or something entirely unrelated?.
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
5/16/2017
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Chris Gardiner wrote:
Tay1or wrote:
It's kind of funny to think of it this way--but what you're really saying is that this isn't a game for people who like to read. Even if this game is about words and stories--if you truly like to read, you suck this game dry in a matter of months.
No, it's definitely a game for people who love to read. But if you could all read really really slowly that'd be great kthxbye
Basically, treat fallen london like how you treat game of thrones :P
edited by suinicide on 5/16/2017
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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dov
Posts: 2580
5/16/2017
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My $0.02 (or more appropriately for Fallen London:  0.02):
I'm probably one of a small minority in that I don't care about the Ambitions reaching an end. In fact, I prefer that they never do. I treat the Ambitions (and I include SMEN in this, because it's really an Ambition in everything but name), as background stories which define the characters' motivations.
As such, it's nice to make progress in them, but I really don't expect an ending. (which is why I was disappointed that SMEN got an actual end, instead of always threatening to jump on you from the dark for the rest of your gameplay).
It would be nice to see a continuation of some of the older stories, but frankly, after so many years playing this game I have almost no recollection what those stories were about (and the journal system doesn't help there).
That said, I do believe that the people who chose Light Fingers as their Ambition (and I'm not one of them) deserve a long overdue update, simply out of fairness. The last update to that particular Ambition was sometime in mid-2012 according to some threads (though the relevant wiki entries were all only added in July 2013, so I'm not sure). The other 3 Ambitions all got their latest update (promised in October 2014, and delivered on October '14, December '14, and June '15).
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 Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how.
(Most social actions are welcome. Please no requests to Loiter Suspiciously and no investigations of the Affluent Photographer)
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
5/18/2017
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One of the ES mentions how the entire second city was a trap for the masters and the bazaar, a false city, a false love. It's possible there were many people, but there's really no indication of that (side note: second city relixs seem to be the rarest relics)
Third city: they literally sold their city for power/immortality. That was their deal.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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TheThirdPolice
Posts: 609
5/18/2017
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Well, okay, all I know for certain is that Mr Candles is the only master who didn't mind the Second City and who likes the pharoah's daughters, and that he got sacrificed by the other Masters. But it's not hard to see the implication that this was an act of punishment or vengeance, not just necessity:
"No restitution for the Drowned Man. Do not forget, do not forgive. Do not forget, do not forgive. Do not forget."
Clearly Candles did something to **** off the others, and there's only one obvious candidate as far as I know. (Which is not much, as I'm still a newbie in New Seeking.)
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Excessive Corpse & Tender to Irreal Ravens
Lover of Flawed Souls
And with especial pride, Worst Screwup of the Decade!
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Barse
Posts: 706
5/18/2017
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As much as I don't want to contribute too much more to this tangential derailment:
I'm pretty sure Candles, while less of an angry sore loser about the whole thing, was not complicit in the Daughters' deception. I got a little obsessed with this a while ago and trawled my records to find everything I could - not much of it I can post, a lot of it being fate locked or hidden in the depths of seeking and whatnot - but I found nothing to suggest that Candles wasn't just as betrayed and trapped as any of the other Masters.
As for why he was sacrificed to the God-Eaters, well... they're ruthless fighty spacebats and he's the weakest, runtiest, most aberrant of them. He was just the logical choice.
edited by Barse on 5/18/2017
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 The Scorched Sailor, up for most social actions and RP. Not as scary as he looks.
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Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
5/18/2017
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Are you TRYING to kill me with laughter? Because you came close :P
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Amalgamate
Posts: 435
5/17/2017
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How can you irrevocably damage your character in the palace cellars? I'm looking at the wiki and don't see anything like that...
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http://www.fallenlondon.com/Profile/amalgamate
Social invitations of all kinds welcome, especially games of chess and deadly sparring!
Also happy to help with nightmares, send sips of Cider, and plant battle.
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Akernis
Posts: 255
5/17/2017
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Chris Gardiner wrote:
Want to see one of the bewilderingly popular branches that our analytics dug up?
Be warned: What's Behind This Spoiler Tag Will Shock You.
[spoiler]
[/spoiler]
I was just bummed that the rarest option on this card was invisible until I already had several magnificent diamonds. I first found out a almost a year after I started playing. Otherwise I would have pursued it much earlier in the game.
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Vena's profile - http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Akernis
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phryne
Posts: 1351
5/17/2017
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Ragnar Degenhand wrote:
Thank you, Chris for some fascinating insights. Most interesting to me was the fact that some branches are what you call "bizarrely popular". I'm not sure what this covers, but I adore expeditions and the whole archaeology branch. I could do them all day if I didn't run out of supplies. I think it's the romance, myself...! I guess in my case, this would be the Iron Republic...
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Accounts: Bag a Legend • Light Fingers • Heart's Desire • Nemesis • no ambition
Exceptional Stories, sorted by Season and by writer ― Favours & Renown Guide
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SeveredJoke
Posts: 171
5/17/2017
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phryne wrote:
Ragnar Degenhand wrote:
Thank you, Chris for some fascinating insights. Most interesting to me was the fact that some branches are what you call "bizarrely popular". I'm not sure what this covers, but I adore expeditions and the whole archaeology branch. I could do them all day if I didn't run out of supplies. I think it's the romance, myself...! I guess in my case, this would be the Iron Republic...
Love the Iron Republic and the Cave of the Nadir. I also love the Frostfound text. Such vibrant imagery.
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Annabelle McAllister - Nemesis
Marlon JD - Bag a Legend
Suzi Bapsthwaite - Light Fingers
Delilah Moreo - Heart's Desire
Alexei Totkinder - Nemesis
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