Omega8520
Posts: 102
3/9/2017
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So, our wonderous overlords at FBG have just released some glorious new Masters information, which has got the IRC in a tizzy.
http://www.failbettergames.com/a-secret-about-the-masters/
The IRC's current guesses as to which Master is which
[spoiler]
- hoarding (Stones?)
- light-bringing (Fires?)
- impersonation, and the delivery of false testimony (Veils?) (Apples/Hearts?) (Sacks, maybe? but Sacks isn't a real master)
- perpetration of the crimes of knife and of candle (Irons)
- idleness, and the dwelling-on of dreams (Spices?)
- runtery, aberration, (Candles)
- pursuit of a Treachery (?)
- failure and defeat; a fall from king to beggar (Wines?)
- glass-whispering. And worse: charity (Mirrors/Cups?)
- truth-strangling (Pages?)
- violation of the Order of Days, “which determines the hour of the hunt, the feast, the council, the bargain, and the slaughter” (Veils?) (Apples/Hearts?)
[/spoiler]
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A Correspondent of measure and restraint, not-withstanding a tendancy to rush into things.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Menacing%20Seeker
Northwards with Noman. At least they'll have company.
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Gul al-Ahlaam
Posts: 225
3/11/2017
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Well, we know Mirrors/Cups are the same person from Nemesis, Christmas, and the old Mysteries thread, and that Hearts/Apples are the same person from Christmas/Mysteries. So for who did what, I submit the following:
Hoarding: Stones (Obviously is of covetous distortion. The Duchess is suspicious of Stones' wealth because 'the masters do not accumulate wealth for its own sake,' but Stones seems to. The Duchess assumes that Stones is only pretending, and has some hidden agenda, but maybe, unlike the other masters, Stones actually places some value on wealth itself. It would fit with what we know of it)
Light-bringing: Fires (Fires fits better than any of the other masters. Fires is depicted prominently with a lantern by a lovestruck artist, and used to give a lantern with a shard of the Mountain inside as a Christmas present. Likes to impose order on Wolfstack Docks, boss people around, which is 'light-bringing' in that it intrudes on the Judgements' domain, perhaps.)
Perpetration of the crimes of knife and of candle: Iron (Still does it)
Idleness/the dwelling-on of dreams: Spices (Talks about dreams and the pleasure of dreams more than any other master. unlike mirrors and wines, whose interest seems to be strategic, spices seems to take pleasure in them. Gives a bed as a Christmas present)
Runtery/aberration: Candles (I'm inclined to believe the SMEN indications to this effect)
Pursuit of a Treachery: Apples/Hearts (A practitioner of the Red Science who works to subvert the Judgement's laws)
Failure and defeat/a fall from king to beggar: Wines (This one can't be Fires, since it 'never had any servants' before the Fifth City fell, and it can't be Veils, since we know about its past. Pages seems unlikely, it's not of royal disposition. Wines is very charismatic and charming compared to the other masters, but also capricious, distrusting. It might not be too much of a stretch)
Glass whispering/charity: Cups/Mirrors (I would have put down Candles for this one, since it's hard to imagine Cups being charitable, but perhaps they've repented of it now. they're the only one with an interest in glass-whispering as far as I'm aware)
Truth-strangling: Pages (I can't see any of the other masters besides Fires or Cups fitting for this one, and both of those have options that seem more likely to me. Plus, of the crimes available, this is the only one that seems to fit. I don't have a strong case for it)
Violation of the Order of Days: Veils (Used to hunt with wild abandon. Not unreasonable for it to miss a gathering or two in its exaltation and bloodlust, I don't think)
Impersonation/delivery of false testimony: We're out of masters now, but we've still got two 'false' masters, Sacks and Chimes. Sacks is a creation of the Bazaar, so he can't have existed before the masters and the Bazaar met one another. Most people agree that Chimes is all of the masters taking turns, but Failbetter never confirmed this. Even in the Mysteries thread, they explicitly avoid saying anything particular about Mr Chimes one way or another. And in Nemesis, where it explicitly tells you that Sacks isn't a real master, it never says anything to that effect about Chimes, and lumps them in with the other real ones. So I'm saying maybe it's the other way around. Maybe Mr Chimes IS a real master, and imitates its colleagues. It could trade in influence, or lies, or something like that.
edited by Gul al-Ahlaam on 3/11/2017
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The Uncanny Hierophant.
The Jewel-Eyed Prince.
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al2o3cr
Posts: 66
3/14/2017
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loredeluxe wrote:
One small bit of lore from Sunless Seas mentioning the Vake referred to its "brothers and sisters." This one line always made me wonder if any of the Masters are actually Ms and not Mr. I was kind of hoping deep down the Masters lore revealed would tell us which of the Masters were male and female. This probably doesn't matter in the grand schemes of the story but it always got me thinking.
I suspect the birds & bees talk is a touch more complicated than just two genders when it starts with "so once, a star and a space crab loved each other very much and then a mountain happened". 
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
3/15/2017
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It was veils, made clear during some parts of SMEN.
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A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
3/15/2017
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I suppose it depends on when the city falls and when the price is paid. At the same time? Do the masters have to perform their part first? Or do the rulers of the city?
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
3/11/2017
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Silverias wrote:
Akernis wrote:
Unlikely. We we know meta-wise that this is a piece of lore concerning the Master, Failbetter explicitly wrote that. Not the Masters and the Bazaar.
Yeah, and FBG would never mislead us...never!
Mislead? Yes. Straight up lie in a social goal that required almost 100 fans to organize? Doubtful.
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A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
3/9/2017
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They're certainly including candles in that. He was 100% the runt. Called that with those exact words.
edited by suinicide on 3/9/2017
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Akernis
Posts: 255
3/9/2017
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Drake Dynamo wrote:
Veils very clearly violated the Order of Days with his desire to hunt;
Not necessarily, the Chill of the Void Destiny could hint that Veils might ironically be the one guilty of hoarding.
[spoiler]"Veils snatches a splinter of rock from the emptiness with the least of his vanes, to stow somewhere among his treasures."[/spoiler]
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Vena's profile - http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/Akernis
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PSGarak
Posts: 834
3/9/2017
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Vortigaunt wrote:
This info was really, really cool and made the Masters a lot more sympathetic as characters. They aren't tyrannical evil space-bats, they're outcasts, criminals, and victims, just like the rest of us.
I had a different reaction. Many of the Masters continue with their crimes, even despite the enduring punishment they have received on account of them. They're not just outcasts, they have fled their homeland and their society and have created a new society specifically to support their continued interest in these activities. They are obsessives, consumed by and defined by their transgressions. They threw themselves down a well of their own choosing (the Neath) rather than suffer the consequences of their actions.
I look forward to the implied interactions with others of their kind in Sunless Skies, so that I can contrast the "un-fallen" ones with those degenerates who call themselves "Masters." The nature of what they consider to be crimes is interesting. Some of them seem to be handed down by Judgements (glass-whispering, and light-bringing which seems to be in violation of the Great Chain), and some of them seem particular to their kind's predilections towards hunting and commerce (charity, hoarding). There are some specific ones that could go either way (Knife and Candle? Order of Days?).
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http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/PSGarak
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Conor McD.
Posts: 9
3/9/2017
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A suggestion for determining the Masters of the Bazaar:
The captain statistics in Sunless Sea and the upcoming Sunless Skies are, quite coincidentally, Veils, Pages, Hearts, Iron, and Mirrors. They correspond with certain abilities in the game:
Iron: The skill of causing direct damage
Mirrors: The skill of perception and detection
Veils: The skill of subtlety and evasion
Hearts: The skill of healing and morale
Pages: The skill of trickery and knowledge
Perhaps that helps?
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Vortigaunt
Posts: 51
3/9/2017
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This info was really, really cool and made the Masters a lot more sympathetic as characters. They aren't tyrannical evil space-bats, they're outcasts, criminals, and victims, just like the rest of us.
My guesses
[spoiler]
Now, since there are only 11, are they excluding the deceased Mr. Candles, or Veils, who might not be from the High Wilderness?
hoarding- Stones
light-bringing- Candles?
impersonation, and the delivery of false testimony- no idea
perpetration of the crimes of knife and of candle- Irons
idleness, and the dwelling-on of dreams- Spices, Wines, or Mirrors, since their domains all involve (or desire) dreams
runtery, aberration,- no idea
pursuit of a Treachery- no idea
failure and defeat; a fall from king to beggar- Fires?
glass-whispering. And worse: charity- Mirrors or Wines, since their domains both involve dreams but their probably more charitable than Spices
truth-strangling- probably Pages
violation of the Order of Days, “which determines the hour of the hunt, the feast, the council, the bargain, and the slaughter”- Veils is a likely answer, but since they may not have originated from the High Wilderness, maybe Apples/Hearts
[/spoiler]
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PSGarak
Posts: 834
3/9/2017
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suinicide wrote:
They're certainly including candles in that. He was 100% the runt. Called that with those exact words.
The phrase "runtery" could refer to the runt themselves, or it could refer to the behavior towards runts that their kind engages in.
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http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/PSGarak
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Ian Hart
Posts: 437
3/10/2017
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I've had a long standing theory that Mr Chimes is a Master who's "tic" is impersonating the other masters. Having the crime of "impersonation, and the delivery of false testimony " would fit that perfectly.
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
3/10/2017
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Although Stones is the most avaricious of the bunch, all the Masters seem fairly accumulative, especially when it comes to the items they specialize in. Mirrors' has a whole warehouse of mirrors, Spices' maintains a whole room full of spices, and so on and so on. So they could all very well be guilty of hoarding, with Stones just being the most guilty.
edited by Anne Auclair on 3/10/2017
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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shylarah
Posts: 171
3/10/2017
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First off, we have eleven reasons. Eleven masters must have left, and we know Eaten was one at the time. It's implied that Veils came from somewhere else, but perhaps that is not true, or perhaps it was before their exile.
We know not-Masters can become Masters, as the player may become one in a Destiny. What solid proof do we have that Cups is Mirrors, and that Apples is Hearts? I am curious also to know where it says Eaten was ever a runt, as well as what, if anything, is known about the Order of Days.
I agree with the labelling of Stones and Iron. Stones even mentions something about a cure for hoarding (quoted on Handsome Zack's list of the Masters, though I don't know the origin).
I could have sworn there were ten current masters, and that adding one more made eleven (for the destiny text) but I seem to have miscounted. X.x
I propose, perhaps, Love might be a Treachery of some sort? We know there's a couple Masters that have a thing for this, though it might be only because of the Bazaar. The idea of breedign creatures being related to some unknown Treachery might be right instead, or perhaps as well.
Charity...well, in terms of charity to humans, Fires does like London as a whole, and Iron did warn the player on Christmas of things, with little to gain as a result. But I'm not sure that's directly charitable, and it probably wasn't towards humans at all. I think, perhaps, this might be Mr. Eaten, or his old self at least. He made himself a target, he genuinely liked the Second City and perhaps the First, he gave things to humans (Fadewalker's quote supports this).
If runtery isn't Candles, aberration might indicate the master in charge of the Labyrinth breeding program...Iunno. I'm just kinda guessing. Something something violating the Chain and I don't even know details about Red Science or if it applies. Then again, if it is tormenting runts, perhaps this is Veils. He does love killing those who are lesser.
We know Cups never does anything for his Revels, and he is after dreams and fighting Spices for them, so perhaps idleness and dreams is him.
I wonder if either of the Masters we've seen gambling (Pages in the Marvellous and Apples for the yacht) might be a clue in some way. It could be one of these is failure and defeat, or why they fell from king to beggar. Then again, Cups oversees the Relickers, for some reason, and I've always thought of them as a sort of beggary type. No idea if that's accurate. But I could also see Veils -- not being proud of origins might imply he is proud of where he came from, or it might imply he isn't proud of falling from power and becoming an exile.
As a footnote, I find it very interesting that the Jovial Contrarian may possess a copy of A Rhyming Revelry, and I wonder if we know the identity of the cellist. Was the Topsy King a musician as well as a scholar? *headtilt*
edited by shylarah on 3/10/2017
edited by shylarah on 3/10/2017
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Lady of Cold Steel, Lady of the Flit, Lady Alyssana Grey. A formidable woman, hard to read and slow to trust. Darkness lurks inside her.
Alts: (please direct all inquiries to Alys & say who they're for)
-Nikki, the Playful Daredevil, leading the constables on merry chases across London at every available opportunity. It's not a good robbery if you didn't get chased~
-Shylarah, waifish, wide-eyed, painfully foreign, entirely untamed. Her search for a way home now leads her to Parabola. There's something about her...
-Dr. Maxwell Thomas, a kindhearted physician who can't stand to see suffering. Moral to a fault, even to his own detriment. Unlucky in love.
I would rather be taken for a fool than deny aid where it is needed.
-Angie, the Cheeky Sharpshooter. Got her start with the Regiment and proudly operated their cannon for years. Rowdy, rough, and among the best shots in London.
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al2o3cr
Posts: 66
3/10/2017
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shylarah wrote:
I am curious also to know where it says Eaten was ever a runt
The clearest reference I can recall is buried deep inside SMEN and costs a serious amount of work to see - a candle that's most easily obtained by sacrificing a *lot* of Notability. o_O
Thankfully, Spacemarine9 echoed it:
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Spacemarine9?fromEchoId=8821062
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Passionario
Posts: 777
3/11/2017
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Gul al-Ahlaam wrote:
it's hard to imagine Cups being charitable
Its relickers trade treasures for trash. That's fairly charitable.
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Passionario: Profile, Story, Ending
Passion: Profile, Appearance
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The Lord Breakfast
Posts: 70
3/12/2017
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Gul al-Ahlaam wrote:
Impersonation/delivery of false testimony: We're out of masters now, but we've still got two 'false' masters, Sacks and Chimes. Sacks is a creation of the Bazaar, so he can't have existed before the masters and the Bazaar met one another. Most people agree that Chimes is all of the masters taking turns, but Failbetter never confirmed this. Even in the Mysteries thread, they explicitly avoid saying anything particular about Mr Chimes one way or another. And in Nemesis, where it explicitly tells you that Sacks isn't a real master, it never says anything to that effect about Chimes, and lumps them in with the other real ones. So I'm saying maybe it's the other way around. Maybe Mr Chimes IS a real master, and imitates its colleagues. It could trade in influence, or lies, or something like that.
edited by Gul al-Ahlaam on 3/11/2017
This is an interesting point of view, and it does mean the numbers work out a bit better. I'm a fan of this conclusion. And having a Master who imitates the other Masters for lulz does strike me as a fun idea.
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The Lord Breakfast, Captain Bacon, The Ageless Pirate, Bane of Salad, The Thrice-Mad, Eater of Pelicans
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loredeluxe
Posts: 106
3/12/2017
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One small bit of lore from Sunless Seas mentioning the Vake referred to its "brothers and sisters." This one line always made me wonder if any of the Masters are actually Ms and not Mr. I was kind of hoping deep down the Masters lore revealed would tell us which of the Masters were male and female. This probably doesn't matter in the grand schemes of the story but it always got me thinking.
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The Lord Breakfast
Posts: 70
3/13/2017
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Anne Auclair wrote:
The Lord Breakfast wrote:
Gul al-Ahlaam wrote:
Impersonation/delivery of false testimony: We're out of masters now, but we've still got two 'false' masters, Sacks and Chimes. Sacks is a creation of the Bazaar, so he can't have existed before the masters and the Bazaar met one another. Most people agree that Chimes is all of the masters taking turns, but Failbetter never confirmed this. Even in the Mysteries thread, they explicitly avoid saying anything particular about Mr Chimes one way or another. And in Nemesis, where it explicitly tells you that Sacks isn't a real master, it never says anything to that effect about Chimes, and lumps them in with the other real ones. So I'm saying maybe it's the other way around. Maybe Mr Chimes IS a real master, and imitates its colleagues. It could trade in influence, or lies, or something like that.
edited by Gul al-Ahlaam on 3/11/2017
This is an interesting point of view, and it does mean the numbers work out a bit better. I'm a fan of this conclusion. And having a Master who imitates the other Masters for lulz does strike me as a fun idea.
If this were so, then the House of Chimes is something of a fraud. The House gets its exclusivity by being patronized by all the Masters, rather then simply being the hangout/establishment of one Master in particular. Furthermore, this indicates that if a Master is not clearly identified but merely gives you behavior "hints" it might not actually be that Master, but rather the Master who impersonates all the others.
Does anyone remember Mr Chimes having a Sackmass Noman though? Like, Mr. Eaten has one, so Mr. Chimes would presumably have one, if he was a separate Master.
On the other hand, if Mr. Chimes really is a collective product of all the other Masters, then maybe they're all guilty of impersonation, with Mr. Chimes simply a collective expression of this tendency.
Perhaps Chimes is a separate master, but he simply never leaves the House of Chimes. If I recall, the Master Nomen were created using Master's blood, so if Chimes stayed safe, inside the House of Chimes, perhaps his blood was never used, thus why he didn't have a Noman. This would also mean that whenever you encounter a Master outside the House of Chimes, you can be assured that it is the real Master, rather than Chimes impersonating them. Perhaps that's even the specific purpose of the House of Chimes. Perhaps it was created for Chimes by the other Masters to enable him to continue his "criminal" activities without interfering with their business in London proper, even as they all use the privacy of the Neath to commit theirs. The House isn't so much sponsored by all the Masters as a club for Exceptional Friends, but instead sponsored by all the Masters as a place for one of their own to take refuge.
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The Lord Breakfast, Captain Bacon, The Ageless Pirate, Bane of Salad, The Thrice-Mad, Eater of Pelicans
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Vortigaunt
Posts: 51
3/9/2017
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We are all very sure of ourselves that Mirrors/Cups and Hearts/Apples are the same people, but this info really makes me think otherwise. Split Hearts/Apples and Mirrors/Cups up into 2 each and add the rest of the Masters, including Candles, and you have 12. That must mean only one of them is 2 of them and that is most likely Cups/Mirros. In the Chill of the Void destiny, 10 Masters are mentioned (throughout the various specific destinies), including yourself, and both Hearts and Apples are mentioned separately while only Cups is mentioned, not Mirrors. The only ones not mentioned are Mirrors (because they're Cups) and Fires (IDK why. Maybe he stayed in London?)
edited by Vortigaunt on 3/9/2017
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Akernis
Posts: 255
3/13/2017
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crazyroosterman wrote:
so i'll presume then that mr candles became the enigma he is now sometime after the second city then.
anything else ill wait till im ready to go seeking to find out.
That happened during the reign of the Third City.
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Stygota
Posts: 64
3/15/2017
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Pumpkinhead wrote:
Kindelwyrm wrote:
This new information, and conjecture from various people, has made me wonder if Candles really was the Runt. I don't think it explicitly says it was anywhere, does it? Though it does seem that Failbetter intentionally leaves things vague for us to draw our own conclusions, at times...
I really want to discuss one of the endings to Seeking Mr Eaten's Name, but I don't know if that's too spoilery for the forums.
The echo from the Destin's option in the Lighthouse (someone posted it earlier) does make it clear that there was something "deficient" with Candles, although it never says "runt" explicitly.
And discussing the SMEN endings on the open forums is pretty frowned upon, although PMs are fine. Which end do you want to discuss? I grieved and would enjoy a discussion if you're interested.
Also, one of the "preparations" mentions the dual nature. The last bit, I believe, is about even a runt having its uses - consider the owl. I can't remember what other piece that's coupled with in my head, but I knew Candles was a "runt" without having seen the Lighthouse text. Might be the bits about the taking of his flesh - I think it's the various ways the betrayal is described.
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Stygota
Posts: 64
3/15/2017
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Oh...I feel dumb. It never occurred to me, but given the new excerpt, since Irons presides over Iron and Candle, and one is guilty of the crimes of the knife and the candle...
Was it ever clear who the betrayer was, the one who clasped arms with Candles on the way up to the flensing and cleaving of flesh? I know there's some information floating around somewhere.
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A once hungry, now sated Hunter with a silver tongue: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Stygota
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genesis
Posts: 924
3/28/2017
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Ian Hart wrote:
I'm definitely strongly inclined to believing Chimes is a master of imitation.
Here is more evidence that there are 10 masters (after Eaten is removed) spoilers: http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Antifinity?fromEchoId=6400027
Well, that would suggest 11, not 10, no?.. Eaten out, You in
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Keeping track of incomplete content and loose ends in Fallen London
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Masterpiece
Posts: 6
3/30/2017
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If we accept the possibility that someone can become a Master, is it then possible that Prince Albert is becoming or has become a Master, and is thus counted in the current number eleven? What information do we have about the number of Masters between the fall of the Third City and the fall of the Fifth City?
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Hattington
Posts: 210
3/30/2017
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Omega8520 wrote:
So, our wonderous overlords at FBG have just released some glorious new Masters information, which has got the IRC in a tizzy.
http://www.failbettergames.com/a-secret-about-the-masters/
The IRC's current guesses as to which Master is which
[spoiler]
- hoarding (Stones?)
- light-bringing (Fires?)
- impersonation, and the delivery of false testimony (Veils?) (Apples/Hearts?) (Sacks, maybe? but Sacks isn't a real master)
- perpetration of the crimes of knife and of candle (Irons)
- idleness, and the dwelling-on of dreams (Spices?)
- runtery, aberration, (Candles)
- pursuit of a Treachery (?)
- failure and defeat; a fall from king to beggar (Wines?)
- glass-whispering. And worse: charity (Mirrors/Cups?)
- truth-strangling (Pages?)
- violation of the Order of Days, “which determines the hour of the hunt, the feast, the council, the bargain, and the slaughter” (Veils?) (Apples/Hearts?)
[/spoiler]
I'm pegging Apples/Hearts for impersonisation and testimony because they're otherwise rather affable for Masters. And violation of the Order of Days for Veils, because he's effing obsessed with the hunt. Actually, I'd peg Mirrors/Cups for failure and defeat; it's interesting he's the Master charged with associating with the notable, as if he's a king in exile playing pretend with an alien court. And Wines is both a sponsor of the Vake-hunting nuns, his more interesting drinkables do give him a controlling interest in mirror-related activities-and most tellingly, he's the Master captured by the Fingerkings in a certain destiny, not Mirrors/Cups or Spices implying he was doing something interesting behind glass.
Most everything else seems spot on, and I wouldn't assume anything about the Treacheries when we barely know what they even truly entail.
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
3/12/2017
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xKiv wrote:
shylarah wrote:
What solid proof do we have that Cups is Mirrors,
What I recall:
Current content end of Nemesis has the character figure it out: there's only one book for scheduling meetings with the masters - cups between sunday and wednesday only, mirrors between thursday and saturday only.
Also, one of the relickers of relicker rats lets it out in one of the bigger exchanges.
Also also, they both deal in "The frangible and the fine" in their twitter bios: https://twitter.com/mr_cups https://twitter.com/mr_mirrors
and that Apples is Hearts?
I don't even know where that came from.
FBG confirmed apples/heart directly, not in game.
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A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Fadewalker
Posts: 136
3/12/2017
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Yes. And here if you want:
http://www.failbettergames.com/the-mysteries-answered/
Mr Cups once called (or made a metaphor) Mr Mirrors as its reflection on twitter.
https://twitter.com/Mr_Cups/status/19432091207
Though sometimes I'm wondering if someone's reflection is strictly the same person. And what is Nemesis in deed, what if there are also puns like some other ambitions... But that is overthinking. Generally, all the existing evidence shows that Mr Mirrors and Mr Cups are the same person, and so are Hearts and Apples.
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A fervent supporter of the Council and the Masters.
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xKiv
Posts: 846
3/13/2017
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Fadewalker wrote:
Yes. And here if you want:
http://www.failbettergames.com/the-mysteries-answered/
Aha. That says:
FailBetterGames wrote:
‘How many Masters are there?’ Eleven, currently. The count is complicated by Mr Apples, who also trades as Mr Hearts; by Mr Cups, who also trades as Mr Mirrors; and by debate over whether Mr Chimes, Mr Sacks and Mr Eaten count as Masters. But there are eleven.
I note that this avoids explaining whether they are counting physical identities (cups+mirrors=1, apples+hearts=1), or trading identities (cups+mirros+apples+hearts=4, but chimes+sacks+eaten=0 because they don't actually have dominion over any trade domain?)
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https://www.fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xKiv - a witchful, percussive, dangermous and shadowry scholar of coexplodence, hopsidirean, and walker of fallen kitties.
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xKiv
Posts: 846
3/12/2017
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shylarah wrote:
What solid proof do we have that Cups is Mirrors,
What I recall:
Current content end of Nemesis has the character figure it out: there's only one book for scheduling meetings with the masters - cups between sunday and wednesday only, mirrors between thursday and saturday only.
Also, one of the relickers of relicker rats lets it out in one of the bigger exchanges.
Also also, they both deal in "The frangible and the fine" in their twitter bios: https://twitter.com/mr_cups https://twitter.com/mr_mirrors
and that Apples is Hearts?
I don't even know where that came from.
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https://www.fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xKiv - a witchful, percussive, dangermous and shadowry scholar of coexplodence, hopsidirean, and walker of fallen kitties.
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Hammond
Posts: 41
3/11/2017
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The "Order of Days" could be in relation to the Mayan Callender. Still doing research into it. A simple search brought me to the Maya and then my fiancée reminded me of the Third City... not going to lie, had a bit of a face-palm moment.
Had another thought: who is to say that each crime is represented by a single Master? Veils is easily guilty of at least half of the list. Hell, I would put good money on Wines being guilty of every single one listed and then some.
Although, it does make things more convenient for the sake of cataloging.
I apologize if I have only served to muddy the waters.
edited by AgentBlueSky on 3/11/2017
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Hammond
All invitations are welcome.
{Warning: Messages sent within the forum might not be answered in a timely manner. Please forgive me, it is a bad habit I am trying to break.}
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Silverias
Posts: 123
3/10/2017
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You know, it says 11 pilgrims, but do we know all 11 are Masters? If we add The Bazaar, what happens to the numbers. Could even put it down for impersonation and bearing false testimony.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Silverias
Stop by and say hello, I'm a correspondent if you need someone to teach your kids.
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Silverias
Posts: 123
3/11/2017
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Akernis wrote:
Unlikely. We we know meta-wise that this is a piece of lore concerning the Master, Failbetter explicitly wrote that. Not the Masters and the Bazaar.
Yeah, and FBG would never mislead us...never!
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Silverias
Stop by and say hello, I'm a correspondent if you need someone to teach your kids.
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Teaspoon
Posts: 866
3/11/2017
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al2o3cr wrote:
shylarah wrote:
I am curious also to know where it says Eaten was ever a runt
The clearest reference I can recall is buried deep inside SMEN and costs a serious amount of work to see - a candle that's most easily obtained by sacrificing a *lot* of Notability. o_O
Thankfully, Spacemarine9 echoed it:
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Spacemarine9?fromEchoId=8821062
That doesn't actually mention runts.
This echo does though:
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Spacemarine9?fromEchoId=8825224
It's from Winking Isle.
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Truth lies at the bottom of a well.
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Alt%20Ern
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Carns
Posts: 30
3/10/2017
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Perhaps the beggar is Mr. Sacks. All he did in London was knock on your door and ask for your stuff after all. Perhaps that's why he's so different from the other masters, with his red robe and gravelly voice, perhaps he kept stuff from a former status as a king or maybe even a chief of other masters.
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Fadewalker
Posts: 136
3/9/2017
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[spoiler]
1. hoarding - maybe Stones, especially the Stones on Twitter. (May your friendship with diamonds be everlasting.)
2. light-bringing - very probably Candles (from a memory of amalgamy: "I would like to say that I decided then to bring light to the lower links")
3. impersonation, and the delivery of false testimony -No idea. (Mr A&H/Mr C&M/Mr V&V all fit "impersonation". Mirrors reflect everything and deliver their virtual images, but who is "glass- whispering" then? On second thoughts, Mr A&H treats Apples and Hearts as entirely different identities, which is more "impersonation" than Mirrors. I suspect Mr A&H for now.)
4. perpetration of the crimes of knife and of candle - likely Mr Iron
5. idleness, and the dwelling-on of dreams - No idea. (Mr Spices? Mr Wines? Mr Mirrors who does not want to rule, wish only to reflect?)
6. runtery, aberration, - No idea. (Sounds a little Candles. What is runtery indeed?)
7. pursuit of a Treachery - No idea. (Capitalized T? Pursuiting one of the Seven Treacheries? Maps, Clocks, Breath, Glass? Or others?)
8. failure and defeat; a fall from king to beggar - No idea.
9. glass-whispering. And worse: charity - No idea. (Charity is worse? Sounds a little Mirrors and Cups.)
10. truth-strangling - Pages, I agree.
11. violation of the Order of Days, “which determines the hour of the hunt, the feast, the council, the bargain, and the slaughter” No idea.
[/spoiler]
And the Number is awkwardly (and naturally) 11 here. If we include Candles, we might need to align 3 identities to Mr C&M and Mr A&H... but how?
(I have no answers but only more questions. Whither I go.)
edited by Fadewalker on 3/9/2017
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A fervent supporter of the Council and the Masters.
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Docteur
Posts: 101
3/9/2017
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Runtery is most definitely Candles, as stated above. I'm looking forward to hearing more of the community on the subject. 
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The Viric Voice! A beautiful instrument.
Docteur - And so it ends.
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Cthonius
Posts: 362
3/9/2017
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This furthers my idle wondering that the "All shall be well" promise indicated the Masters came from their own unfortunate circumstsances
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Cthonius, gone North. Gone.
Oneiropompus, a Scarlet Saint, eager to help make your dreams realities. Accepting all social requests for now.
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Pumpkinhead
Posts: 516
3/9/2017
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Is "all shall be well" a masters in general thing or is it specifically a Mr Eaten thing? I personally only recall it with Eaten, but my knowledge of the lore is pathetic.
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McGunn/Bsymstad is on the slow boat, waiting to see if he can find out what death is. (I'm done with London for now. Thanks for everything!)
Amanda Albright is a *spoiler* now, like she always wanted.
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
3/9/2017
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Its the bazaar's promise.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Kindelwyrm
Posts: 21
3/9/2017
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From some of the Destiny text, "Not all of us are proud of our origins" spoken to Veils, I have to wonder if it isn't the beggar-king.
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Alison Wright - An Occasionally Ridiculous Artist
Rosetta Byrd - The Fatally Inquisitive Enquirer
A Drawing Room - Fallen London fan art blog. The misadventures of Alison "Alice" Wright in trying to get portraits of the Masters.
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