Zack Oak
Posts: 205
1/19/2017
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The favor gain for renown is pure RNG, with a large cost of items to follow. Instead of it feeling like grinding connections, it's me flipping card after card, gaining undiscardable conflicts due to the slowness of favor gain, and then spending a lot of resources just to improve that renown, sometimes not even by a whole point.
Unfortunately, it's replaced one form of grind for another, but with much slower return, and much harsher penalties. Adding easier ways to gain favors might help with this, but the way things are set up just makes it frustrating to work with.
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dov
Posts: 2580
1/19/2017
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A lot has already been said (including by me) about the drawbacks of the new Renown system (I'm fine with the Favours).
The old Connected quality means how closely you've interacted with a faction, specifically in their favour. Having a very high Connected: The Church, for example, means you've often interacted with them and helped them.
The Renown quality has no gameplay/roleplay/story/character meaning. It doesn't measure how close you are to a faction. Instead the only thing it measures is how many times you have clicked on the faction's item in your inventory instead of doing something else.
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maleclypse
Posts: 259
1/19/2017
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I am going to be honest. The renown system has grown on me. I'm really hopeful for more ways to spend all the various favors other than conflict cards and that will really complete it for me. I've figured out why this is working now for me. Because basically the spending favors on the connected item is you doing something that should have incurred you more favours but going ahead and writing all that debt off. Just sitting there and saying Hey Rubbery friends I know you feel indebted to me for saving your tenement from that riot but seriously you guys are the best! You show me so much interesting junk down in flute street I'm just lucky to have you guys as friends. And those favours a very real and tangible currency in the neath well those markers are just gone as if they were called in. But the people whose debts you absolved, well they won't ever stop singing your praise/or venom. They will love you and they will hate you and it's just another one of the bazaars stories but they will always tell stories of the rights you wronged and the wrongs you righted.
But that's just my personal headcanon explanation for Renown.
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Maintaining a controlling interest in my soul requires a pretty constant negotiation between the various shareholder interests. Thankfully the Fingerkings 23% control makes a pretty good foil to unite the other factions enough to get to 51%.
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Myrto
Posts: 209
1/19/2017
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Wiwo wrote:
The Duchess, Benthic, and Summerset all seem like other plausible candidates for nonconversion. The Gracious Widow is borderline.
edited to add: Glass and Shroud are also very minor connected qualities.
edited by Wiwo on 1/18/2017
That makes sense. Benthic/Summerset and Glass/Shroud occupy places outside the normal connections game. I'm hoping the Widow plays a greater role in the future, perhaps after the conversion. I like her for some reason.
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Silvan Derre
Posts: 61
1/19/2017
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But why make the conflict cards undiscardable??? Just got the docks-urchin card and I don't understand what purpose is it supposed to serve story-wise
That just makes things that much harder to grind when I'm forced to give up all the favors I've saved.
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Wiwo
Posts: 365
1/19/2017
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It's an in game representation of it being difficult to juggle the competing interests of adjacent factions. You needn't give up the favours when you get the card. In general, you're going to be best off just holding it in your hand until you get 7 favours in the faction you're intending to side against or you turn in favours via one of the factions' renown gain item. The card will disappear from your hand in either case.
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Wiwo. Almost certainly not a squid in a cunningly tailored suit. Surely.
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Frenzgyn
Posts: 197
1/19/2017
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As I said, it's not the mechanic that is frustrating, it's the way it is tuned.
Favours gaining\spending is fine and it's ok also the idea they could be turned in the permanent renown and the latter will open up to reward.
The problem is that it is a really long grind, mainly depending on card flipping and RNG, after the first time it became boring and with Renown more than 15 it will require buying lot of materials, so in the end it will cost lot of actions, echoes, card flipping and mindless clicking.
For what?
Disappointing rewards, with maybe two that are ok stat-wise but considering the crazy amount of efforts they need, are pointless.
As a plus, Renown could only be maxed if you have farmed a crazy amount of connection before the transition and if you have not, you will be punished, because any connection around 70 Will be transformed in the equivalent of less than 10 tickets and 20 actions for a fresh player.
Also, renown and rewards are poorly intertwined with the rest of content and I doubt there is any ending epic text.
It just seems a cheap way of keeping players busy.
It's not that i am fully against farming (I was an hardcore World of Warcraft player, so I know what farming is), but if you really could not come out with anything less boring, at least make the rewards really worthwhile (like goats) ore tune down the grind to a less maddening level or a mix of the two.
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Baigan
Posts: 10
1/19/2017
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Frenzgyn wrote:
Also, renown and rewards are poorly intertwined with the rest of content and I doubt there is any ending epic text.
It just seems a cheap way of keeping players busy.
It's not that i am fully against farming (I was an hardcore World of Warcraft player, so I know what farming is), but if you really could not come out with anything less boring, at least make the rewards really worthwhile (like goats) ore tune down the grind to a less maddening level or a mix of the two.
I too love making numbers go higher. I like to feel epic while doing it once the numbers are higher. I do not feel superbly engaged, interested, or tantalized by the consequences of throwing favors into the well. The rewards are not bad, it is true - they are actually great! - but I do not feel inspired or engaged. I like my grinding hidden under a thicker layer of paint, I suppose. A little gilt, too.
I really, REALLY enjoyed grinding for some of the exceptional stories because it was new and fun. I know the base story grinds will not be that level of quality, always - but the monochromatic nature of the player interaction here screams for more opportunities and investment.
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It's a complex flavour. Something like regret - but less assertive, perhaps?
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Toran
Posts: 193
1/19/2017
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Personally I don't think people are intended to grind to higher than 25 Renown with most factions unless they're bored/want to.
All Favours so far can be turned in for very fine cash rewards once you stop aiming for higher Renown.
And, as an end-game player, most of the Renown items are highly optional. As I've said before, there are only 3-4 tests that are not 100% success at end-game (with an Ubergoat), so Renown items are a side-quest. If you don't like Renown, don't play along.
That said, I also agree that having in-story instant Renown awards would significantly improve the immersion.
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Grenem
Posts: 2067
1/19/2017
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Toran wrote:
Personally I don't think people are intended to grind to higher than 25 Renown with most factions unless they're bored/want to.
All Favours so far can be turned in for very fine cash rewards once you stop aiming for higher Renown.
And, as an end-game player, most of the Renown items are highly optional. As I've said before, there are only 3-4 tests that are not 100% success at end-game (with an Ubergoat), so Renown items are a side-quest. If you don't like Renown, don't play along.
That said, I also agree that having in-story instant Renown awards would significantly improve the immersion.
I agree. I also hope they make favors convertible at a high loss rate; but with actual storylets. It would really improve utility if you could turn 2-3 favors of type X into a favor of type Y, and it wouldn't be too exploitable, especially if they made it a conversion circle and not a "turn any type into any type".
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Grinding Favors without cards: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic22266-storylet-favors-grinding.aspx
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
1/19/2017
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Wiwo wrote:
In general, you're going to be best off just holding it in your hand until you get 7 favours in the faction you're intending to side against
Actually, if you're using the conflict cards for profit, you're almost always better off using them at 5 favours. Almost every card has a higher EPA with fewer favours.
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Wiwo
Posts: 365
1/19/2017
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Optimatum wrote:
Wiwo wrote:
In general, you're going to be best off just holding it in your hand until you get 7 favours in the faction you're intending to side against
Actually, if you're using the conflict cards for profit, you're almost always better off using them at 5 favours. Almost every card has a higher EPA with fewer favours.
Turns out you're entirely correct. I did my initial calculations in the early fog-of-war surrounding the renown conversions and never rechecked them. Thanks.
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Wiwo. Almost certainly not a squid in a cunningly tailored suit. Surely.
Care for some cider? Here's how to ask me for some. Strange pranks strongly preferred.
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Grenem
Posts: 2067
1/19/2017
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Wiwo wrote:
Optimatum wrote:
Wiwo wrote:
In general, you're going to be best off just holding it in your hand until you get 7 favours in the faction you're intending to side against
Actually, if you're using the conflict cards for profit, you're almost always better off using them at 5 favours. Almost every card has a higher EPA with fewer favours.
Turns out you're entirely correct. I did my initial calculations in the early fog-of-war surrounding the renown conversions and never rechecked them. Thanks.
The only exception {unless they changed it} is the tomb-colonists/society conflict favoring society. That one gives 5 echoes per excess favor, which is a pretty darn good deal. On the other hand, these are tomb colonist favors, you don't get many of those in london, and they're wrapped up in war of assassins regardless- you aren't going to be keeping a lot around unless you've dedicated a connection pet to it.
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Married!:http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/takuza
I will accept all social actions that do not consume free evenings- and i will provide patronage to anyone who requests it, though it will be split between all requesters.
On psudeo-hiatus. Will be inactive and active and fluctuate without warning.
Grinding Favors without cards: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic22266-storylet-favors-grinding.aspx
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Aronia
Posts: 36
1/20/2017
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Novice speaking here.
In fact, the new system seems logical to me. I did feel a bit queer about the Connected one: first, you do them favours to get closer to them, then you, say, take a few lessons from them, and… what? Do you become more distant from them now? Have you offended them in any way? If you choose a profession related to a certain faction, you seem to offend them greatly, while the logical thing would be to get closer to them, because hey, I'm working with you now, am I not?
It seems more logical if you trade favours for these things, while becoming better-known at the same time.
The problem is the fact that the faction items (and Mrs Plenty's Carnival, but that is capped at a very low level) seem to be the only way of getting Renown. The items do exist for the Connected factions, too, but they are more of an emergency, something you use if you need a significant amount of Connected here and now. This fact does make the system… queer. It would be much better if every Favours trading would get you just a little bit Renown, too.
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