SpellingSword
Posts: 10
1/18/2017
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Can't wait to have yet another "Renown" only obtaianble through unfun and worthless sacrifice of favors that are in turn only obtained from opportunity cards.
Hurray for immersion-breaking pointless grinding!
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/SpellingSword
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Saklad
Posts: 528
1/18/2017
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I like this system far better than the old Connected one, and I think anyone who starts the game with the system already in-place would too.
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Saklad5, a man of many talents
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SpellingSword
Posts: 10
1/18/2017
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Guess my rookery password is now on the list of useless items that I can only use to waste precious favors in hopes of receving an underwhelming item a few years down the line.
This chage is certainly worthy of taking priority over silly thigns like
-Finishing the bloody ambitions that have been seemingly abandoned
-Any continuation to the stories that promised one(The Last Constable, Deviless and The Sprifier etc.)
-Any lead up to Destinies
-Dilmun club
Also I started ~3 months ago and despite caching in just about all my tomb-colonies favors for renown I barely have 10. What did I get? A +4 dangerous item. Wow. I managed to become a PoSI in that time and renown is looking nowhere near impressive.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/SpellingSword
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Mr Sables
Posts: 597
1/18/2017
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SpellingSword wrote:
Guess my rookery password is now on the list of useless items that I can only use to waste precious favors in hopes of receving an underwhelming item a few years down the line.
This chage is certainly worthy of taking priority over silly thigns like
-Finishing the bloody ambitions that have been seemingly abandoned
-Any continuation to the stories that promised one(The Last Constable, Deviless and The Sprifier etc.)
-Any lead up to Destinies
-Dilmun club
Also I started ~3 months ago and despite caching in just about all my tomb-colonies favors for renown I barely have 10. What did I get? A +4 dangerous item. Wow. I managed to become a PoSI in that time and renown is looking nowhere near impressive.
I agree with your point, but not quite the tone . . .
Essentially, very old storylines take a lot of time to complete; FBG said that they now give full consideration to time estimates, making sure they have time to complete every project, but this wasn't the case way back . . . especially as - back then - there weren't other games, EF stories, and other content to juggle . . . this seems relatively fair to me, as they couldn't predict the future would be so busy.
That being said, I also think they said - now certain things are out the way - they can focus more on finishing unfinished things . . . whether this means ambitions and old stories -? I don't know. It's clear they're finishing out the renown/favour conversion, though.
Still . . . FBG has a wide range of player; some like to collect items, some like myself prefer stories and qualities, and others may prefer other elements. There are many people who will love trying to get this 40+ renown item; it'll be a challenge, it'll kill time for the end-game players, and it'll be something new for their collection . . . I won't be going for it, as trying to get favours for Rubbery is a b**** enough, but others won't mind and will enjoy the challenge. Good for them, most sincerely.
I think it's okay to voice dissatisfaction; there's a lot I don't like, too, but . . .
I don't know. This sounds a little rude in tone? :-/
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SpellingSword
Posts: 10
1/18/2017
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I expressed my concerns in a far less antagonizing manner around 2 months back.
Seeing as they release another Renown transition with virtually all the same flaws that I pointed at back then it seems my concerns were ignored.
EDIT: Heh, I thought I saw you in that thread too. Here's the link for anyone who might want to read
http://community.failbettergames.com/topic23590-thoughts-on-favors-and-connected-from-a-new-player.aspx
edited by SpellingSword on 1/18/2017
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/SpellingSword
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Mr Sables
Posts: 597
1/18/2017
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SpellingSword wrote:
I expressed my concerns in a far less antagonizing manner around 2 months back.
Seeing as they release another Renown transition with virtually all the same flaws that I pointed at back then it seems my concerns were ignored.
I don't think you're concerns were 'ignored' as such . . .
Honestly? I strongly dislike the new renown/favours system; the old system felt more organic, was easier to make sense of as a new player, and they could have easily have attached 'items' to it without the need for any change, but . . . the game is made for a wide variety of players. There are players who love the new system, while it certainly seems to be generating a lot of attention.
FBG are great for feedback, listening to every player, but . . . sometimes we're in the minority, or sometimes our desires aren't practical, or sometimes FBG just want to go a different direction or want to try something new . . . it may work, it may be a mistake, but they try.
I'll not derail the thread further, but it's something to bear in mind . . .
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
1/18/2017
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I really hope that after all the factions are converted to Favours and Renown, FBG goes back and adds Renown gains to stories like in the original concept. Renown would feel a lot less grindy if it was actually involved in general play, rather than slowly increasing one quality for a couple fancy items and minimal effect on everything else. If progress rewarded Renown and higher Renown opened new paths through stories, this whole system might actually feel like a part of the game.
SpellingSword wrote:
This chage is certainly worthy of taking priority over silly thigns like
-Finishing the bloody ambitions that have been seemingly abandoned
-Any continuation to the stories that promised one(The Last Constable, Deviless and The Sprifier etc.)
-Any lead up to Destinies
-Dilmun club
To be fair, those are all quite different tasks than Renown conversions. The conversions are primarily mechanical changes and only need new writing for a handful of options. Writing a continuation for existing stories would require a lot of time spent on design, writing, mechanical implementation, and testing. For the Ambitions, only around a quarter of players will even have access to any new content, and many of those players may not be at the end of the existing content. Writing a bunch of new story only available to a subset of players (on a certain Ambition or far enough in the game) would eat up resources for unclear gain. It's entirely understandable that FBG is focusing on more limited tasks first.
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Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
 Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Kharsirr Lynx
Posts: 318
1/18/2017
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If not that favours/Renown distraction, my long way to the Cider could well be left out well ago. Now I at least have secondary targets, while moving on.
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Kharsirr%20Lynx
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Wiwo
Posts: 365
1/18/2017
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I'd additionally like to add that the renown 25 items are quite good, and most of the renown 40 items are best in slot. It's entirely appropriate that you have to laboriously earn them.
What DOES make my brain itch is the fact that I can't ever max out my renown for an already converted faction, even with best-in-slot gear, overcapping, and a mood.
edited by Wiwo on 1/18/2017
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Wiwo. Almost certainly not a squid in a cunningly tailored suit. Surely.
 Care for some cider? Here's how to ask me for some. Strange pranks strongly preferred.
Care to pet a Heptagoat? Too bad. It doesn't do anything (probably).
I'm a Correspondent and would be delighted to lecture at your orphanage.
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Mr Sables
Posts: 597
1/18/2017
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I think they said the player average determines conversion rate, right? I'm wondering if maybe one player somewhere is an outlier . . . gaining SUCH a massive amount of urchins renown that it's skewered it for the rest of us, meaning that it's gone from 5/6 to 7. If so, I think the use of an 'average' for determining the ratio from connected to renown ought to be drastically rethought . . .
I spent a fair bit of money and time going over the free/non-seasonal cap with Masters . . . when it comes to them, if I don't get the max renown (because some players are outliers and in the twenties) I may just stop playing, as it'll be both an insult and waste of money.
I have no idea why this one is 7, so unexpectedly, but . . . dang . . . that was a harsh conversion 0_0
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MidnightVoyager
Posts: 858
1/18/2017
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I'm mostly unhappy with how I previously had much higher qualities for... say, urchins, but then a mechanic was introduced that encouraged me to burn them before the favors system came out.
I have never so regretted having an orphanage.
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Midnight Voyager - A blood-cousin to predators. Collector of beasts. Affably mad.
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Cthonius
Posts: 362
1/18/2017
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Robin Alexander wrote:
I think they said the player average determines conversion rate, right? I'm wondering if maybe one player somewhere is an outlier . . . gaining SUCH a massive amount of urchins renown that it's skewered it for the rest of us, meaning that it's gone from 5/6 to 7. If so, I think the use of an 'average' for determining the ratio from connected to renown ought to be drastically rethought . . .
I spent a fair bit of money and time going over the free/non-seasonal cap with Masters . . . when it comes to them, if I don't get the max renown (because some players are outliers and in the twenties) I may just stop playing, as it'll be both an insult and waste of money.
I have no idea why this one is 7, so unexpectedly, but . . . dang . . . that was a harsh conversion 0_0
I would imagine they'd factor in (or factor out, specifically) outliers for just that reason. As for Masters, there's a high chance that never gets changed over due to how different and exceptional that Connected quality is; they've stated that not all factions will definitely be brought over, since they might not work in the new system.
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Cthonius, gone North. Gone.
Oneiropompus, a Scarlet Saint, eager to help make your dreams realities. Accepting all social requests for now.
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Myrto
Posts: 209
1/18/2017
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MidnightVoyager wrote:
I have never so regretted having an orphanage.
Me too, mate. I got one for my alt, Jack, because it's more in character for him than a salon. But boy, did it tank the urchins connection possibilities. Ouch!
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Myrto, a mysterious veteran spy who is only on their own side. Married to navchaa!
Edith Alpha Doyle, social climber with grand ambitions; Correspondent who would be happy to assist you in whatever way she can.
, teenage orphan who came to the Neath to pursue a career in crime; monster-hunter. Currently on the Seeking road.
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Myrto
Posts: 209
1/18/2017
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Cthonius wrote:
Robin Alexander wrote:
I think they said the player average determines conversion rate, right? I'm wondering if maybe one player somewhere is an outlier . . . gaining SUCH a massive amount of urchins renown that it's skewered it for the rest of us, meaning that it's gone from 5/6 to 7. If so, I think the use of an 'average' for determining the ratio from connected to renown ought to be drastically rethought . . .
I spent a fair bit of money and time going over the free/non-seasonal cap with Masters . . . when it comes to them, if I don't get the max renown (because some players are outliers and in the twenties) I may just stop playing, as it'll be both an insult and waste of money.
I have no idea why this one is 7, so unexpectedly, but . . . dang . . . that was a harsh conversion 0_0
I would imagine they'd factor in (or factor out, specifically) outliers for just that reason. As for Masters, there's a high chance that never gets changed over due to how different and exceptional that Connected quality is; they've stated that not all factions will definitely be brought over, since they might not work in the new system.
Which other factions do you think will be left out of the conversion to favours/renown? Has anyone said, or is there any player speculation? I'm just curious.
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Myrto, a mysterious veteran spy who is only on their own side. Married to navchaa!
Edith Alpha Doyle, social climber with grand ambitions; Correspondent who would be happy to assist you in whatever way she can.
, teenage orphan who came to the Neath to pursue a career in crime; monster-hunter. Currently on the Seeking road.
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Wiwo
Posts: 365
1/18/2017
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The Duchess, Benthic, and Summerset all seem like other plausible candidates for nonconversion. The Gracious Widow is borderline.
edited to add: Glass and Shroud are also very minor connected qualities.
edited by Wiwo on 1/18/2017
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Wiwo. Almost certainly not a squid in a cunningly tailored suit. Surely.
Care for some cider? Here's how to ask me for some. Strange pranks strongly preferred.
Care to pet a Heptagoat? Too bad. It doesn't do anything (probably).
I'm a Correspondent and would be delighted to lecture at your orphanage.
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Optimatum
Posts: 3666
1/18/2017
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Duchess and Widow are rather similar to pre-conversion Rubbery Men (no faction card, rarely used) so I expect they'll be converted.
Glass and Shroud are essentially story trackers for the War of Illusions, so those will have to be treated uniquely.
edited by Optimatum on 1/18/2017
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Optimatum, a ruthless and merciful gentleman. No plant battles, Affluent Photographer requests, or healing offers; all other social actions welcome.
Want a sip of Cider? Just say hi!
PM me for information enigmatic or Fated. Though the forum please, not FL itself.
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
1/18/2017
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Robin Alexander wrote:
I think they said the player average determines conversion rate, right? I'm wondering if maybe one player somewhere is an outlier . . . gaining SUCH a massive amount of urchins renown that it's skewered it for the rest of us, meaning that it's gone from 5/6 to 7. If so, I think the use of an 'average' for determining the ratio from connected to renown ought to be drastically rethought . . .
Urchins Georg has ruined it for everyone, again!!
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Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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The Master
Posts: 804
1/18/2017
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Optimatum wrote:
Duchess and Widow are rather similar to pre-conversion Rubbery Men (no faction card, rarely used) so I expect they'll be converted.
Glass and Shroud are essentially story trackers for the War of Illusions, so those will have to be treated uniquely.
edited by Optimatum on 1/18/2017
Duchess, yes(though it seems like she was in an even worse position than the rubberies), but the widow only seems to be used in conflict cards, as a gain from some early game stories and in spite, there are literally no end game stories that seem to be involved with her other than the conflict cards, the storylet in spite is useless outside of raising the connection further to...use the conflict cards, I guess, she would need alot more than just reworking the stories she is currently in.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Lolwolfking
A very ruthless and daring doctor of the neath.
No more gift exchanges, im getting too many and I can barely hold these.
He has knowledge of a certain enigma, ask, you will get a clue.
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colinsapherson
Posts: 191
1/18/2017
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There did actually used to be a Widow connection card (back when it was called Connected: The Orient), so that could be brought back in. I do admit, it felt more like a standard connection then (this was 4+ years ago IIRC), including with the ream of Spite stories that were about interacting with the Widow's smuggling operations.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Colin%20Sapherson%2c%20Lord%20President%20of%20the%20Council
Available for Knife & Candle Moon League matches, Tournaments of lilies and other social actions (including boxed cats and photographers).
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Strangewheys~Wandering
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/RUSKIN~WARE
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NotaWalrus
Posts: 221
1/18/2017
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I feel very conflicted about the favors and renown mechanics. As far as grinds go it's not the least fun. But if you want those items you are heavily incentivized to not use favors for anything other than increasing renown, making you actually interact with the faction less and removing many interesting things from the game (e.g I haven't used An Implausible Penance in weeks now, it's become yet another trash card until I get the 40 Renown Criminals item). I feel like a better system would have been that every storylet that gives a favor also gives a CP of renown for the relevant faction. That would make a lot of sense and fix the previous problems with Connected, but that's not going to happen.
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http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/NotaWalrus
Ignacious, the Fluid Professor, he will accept most social invitations, including boxed cats and affluent photographers (but only betrayals), though he is absent-minded and might take more time than entirely necessary. He apologizes.
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