Raiseth Ascendant
Posts: 27
1/3/2017
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I was thinking about it one cold, melancholic evening. This evening.
I thought: lacre is not snow. Concentrated lacre is called Tears of Bazaar. Why does Bazaar cry? Why does it snow lacre only in winter if it is not, in fact, snow. Then it hit me: winter is the time the Earth is furthest from the Sun.
Huh? Huh? Am I not a genius? A more important question: Do you fellow Londoners think I am right?
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Desole%20Terrek
Writer, Seeker, Correspondent. Ocassionaly, a good conversationalist.
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Addis Rook
Posts: 125
1/4/2017
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witty thought, I like it, but I doubt distance makes the Bazaar mourn any deeper than it already does.
What I don't get, is why lacre falls from the roof.
edited by Addis Rook on 1/4/2017
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Raiseth Ascendant
Posts: 27
1/4/2017
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I think Bazaar is not a building, that is, not only a building in the heart of Fallen London. I think the Echo Bazaar is Fallen London, heh, for a time. So it envelopes the city, or maybe the entire space in the cavern, and it mourns. Icarus longs for the summer's touch, for a glint of light, however brief.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Desole%20Terrek
Writer, Seeker, Correspondent. Ocassionaly, a good conversationalist.
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Siankan
Posts: 1048
1/4/2017
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Raiseth Ascendant wrote:
Then it hit me: winter is the time the Earth is furthest from the Sun.
Not exactly. The point when Earth is furthest from the Sun is called aphelion, and it has nothing to do with seasons. Winter just means that your particular hemisphere is pointing away from the Sun; the other half, of course, is in summer. As Addis said, it's a clever idea, but I don't think it pans out.
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Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
1/4/2017
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True, but the Bazaar would still be IN that particular hemisphere, so perhaps being in the part of the earth that's currently pointing away from the sun makes it sadder.
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Pumpkinhead
Posts: 516
1/4/2017
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Is Fallen London directly under where Surface London was? If so, does that mean the Neath moved each time a new city fell?
I personally think the Neath is a bit too undefined to say it's anywhere in particular underground. So even though Earth moves around and points in different directions in relation to the sun, I don't really think those movements correspond to the Neath so much, seeing as it's position is already so indefinite.
edited by Pumpkinhead on 1/4/2017
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McGunn/Bsymstad is on the slow boat, waiting to see if he can find out what death is. (I'm done with London for now. Thanks for everything!)
Amanda Albright is a *spoiler* now, like she always wanted.
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The Master
Posts: 804
1/4/2017
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Pumpkinhead wrote:
Is Fallen London directly under where Surface London was? If so, does that mean the Neath moved each time a new city fell?
I personally think the Neath is a bit too undefined to say it's anywhere in particular underground. So even though Earth moves around and points in different directions in relation to the sun, I don't really think those movements correspond to the Neath so much, seeing as it's position is already so indefinite.
edited by Pumpkinhead on 1/4/2017
Well, you can go to Naples and Vienna in SS, but we can't really see how far you have to travel to get there so I guess this is still a mystery(nobody ever mentions where the bats got London to, Silver Tree even confuses moments with days when you fall with Karakorum(your character mentions that you don't get how long it took you to "fall" IIRC), so that is probably irrigo, but uhh, if the bats do have to get the city to the same position every time, they either have to teleport or use irrigo to make everyone forget about them?
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Lolwolfking
A very ruthless and daring doctor of the neath.
No more gift exchanges, im getting too many and I can barely hold these.
He has knowledge of a certain enigma, ask, you will get a clue.
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Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
1/4/2017
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Hmmm...that's a good point. I always assumed Fallen London was right underneath where London originally was, and any other fallen cities would have been right underneath where they originally stood as well (the Neath presumably being a big place). But the remains of previous cities in the Forgotten Quarter and such indicates that all the cities get taken to the same place, which wouldn't necessarily be anywhere near where London originally was.
But...uh...maybe the spot that all the fallen cities get taken to just so happens to be in the northern hemisphere. Yeah. :P
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Pumpkinhead
Posts: 516
1/4/2017
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The Master wrote:
Well, you can go to Naples and Vienna in SS, but we can't really see how far you have to travel to get there so I guess this is still a mystery(nobody ever mentions where the bats got London to, Silver Tree even confuses moments with days when you fall with Karakorum(your character mentions that you don't get how long it took you to "fall" IIRC), so that is probably irrigo, but uhh, if the bats do have to get the city to the same position every time, they either have to teleport or use irrigo to make everyone forget about them?
Again, I think this all just points to the indefinite nature of the Neath. Just because you can get to Naples from a consistent point in the Neath doesn't necessarily make a fixed location or really provide any reference to where anything else in the Neath is. Also, the Neath being indefinite might explain the time issues, because it can be wonky with time as well as space.
edited by Pumpkinhead on 1/4/2017
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McGunn/Bsymstad is on the slow boat, waiting to see if he can find out what death is. (I'm done with London for now. Thanks for everything!)
Amanda Albright is a *spoiler* now, like she always wanted.
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
1/4/2017
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Pumpkinhead wrote:
The Master wrote:
Well, you can go to Naples and Vienna in SS, but we can't really see how far you have to travel to get there so I guess this is still a mystery(nobody ever mentions where the bats got London to, Silver Tree even confuses moments with days when you fall with Karakorum(your character mentions that you don't get how long it took you to "fall" IIRC), so that is probably irrigo, but uhh, if the bats do have to get the city to the same position every time, they either have to teleport or use irrigo to make everyone forget about them?
Again, I think this all just points to the indefinite nature of the Neath. Just because you can get to Naples from a consistent point in the Neath doesn't necessarily make a fixed location or really provide any reference to where anything else in the Neath is. Also, the Neath being indefinite might explain the time issues, because it can be wonky with time as well as space.
edited by Pumpkinhead on 1/4/2017
If the neath is breaking/bending the law of the judgements, I'm pretty sure it can do this however it wants. I've also seen a theory that's its only ten feet underground, but the size of a grain of sand. Moving between the neath and the world just alters size.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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Pumpkinhead
Posts: 516
1/4/2017
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suinicide wrote:
If the neath is breaking/bending the law of the judgements, I'm pretty sure it can do this however it wants. I've also seen a theory that's its only ten feet underground, but the size of a grain of sand. Moving between the neath and the world just alters size.
Sound's pretty indefinite to me, if it's breaking the law of the judgements!
In any case, it would seem that the movement of Earth around the Sun probably isn't why lacre falls in winter, which is the original purpose of this thread.
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McGunn/Bsymstad is on the slow boat, waiting to see if he can find out what death is. (I'm done with London for now. Thanks for everything!)
Amanda Albright is a *spoiler* now, like she always wanted.
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dov
Posts: 2580
1/4/2017
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The Neath is bigger on the inside.
(and it bends the rules of time and space. Yes - the Neath is a TARDIS)
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 Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how.
(Most social actions are welcome. Please no requests to Loiter Suspiciously and no investigations of the Affluent Photographer)
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Raiseth Ascendant
Posts: 27
1/4/2017
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Sorry, Sorry, forgot my Astronomy. While I in no good faith could argue whether the Neath is actually located in fixed position underground in Northern Hemisphere, I could add that the highest levels of the Taste of Lacre say: in the loneliest of seasons, lacre overflows.
It could be pretty metaphorical, then, or harbor no greater sense. It could be even that there is no "true" answer, even placeholder one, as Alexis would put it.
I guess I was a little entranced by romanticism of the situation or my brain froze over, ( It was rather cold yesterday ) but I still think I am onto something. Inexplicably.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Desole%20Terrek
Writer, Seeker, Correspondent. Ocassionaly, a good conversationalist.
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CALLNXW
Posts: 116
1/4/2017
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The bazaar cries tearrs of Lacre at winter, because it makes a cool winter&christmas-related event.
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/Profile/Call%20Now
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PJ
Posts: 210
1/4/2017
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You all are getting hung up on the word "winter", when really December is when the Earth is farthest from the sun, and also when the lacre falls.
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Peter%20James
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Siankan
Posts: 1048
1/4/2017
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PJ wrote:
December is when the Earth is farthest from the sun
Again, not exactly. However, you do bring up a good point. Even if we assume the Neath is somewhere under the Northern Hemisphere (which is exceedingly likely, I think, given the Cumaean Canal if nothing else), the heart of winter up here is January, not December, so lacre is unlikely to be directly connected to winter, per se.
CALLNXW wrote:
The bazaar cries tearrs of Lacre at winter, because it makes a cool winter&christmas-related event.
Oh, certainly, certainly. However, have you ever known Fallen London to be arbitrary, as regards its setting? Even if the original reason is so prosaic, it would be highly uncharacteristic for it to not have been given an in-world explanation.
Perhaps we are simply thinking of this wrong. PJ points out that lacre is a December event, not a winter one, and Raiseth points out that it overflows in "the loneliest of seasons" (though it is not, of course, clear from whose perspective that is written). It is probably the Christmas season, not winter, that is being referred to. Why is it "the loneliest of seasons"? Uncertain. However, Christmas is certainly very lonely up on the Surface for those who have lost loved ones or otherwise have no one to celebrate with. There's nothing like watching everyone else be happy and joyful to depress those who are not. Does this apply to the Bazaar? Again, uncertain. However, we certainly know the Bazaar's insatiable desire for stories, and the Masters themselves are feeling pretty wistful and nostalgic, if the Mr. Sacks dialogues can be believed. Indeed, Mr. Sacks-not-Pages-I-promise made some statements that link lacre to the stories he's collecting. So perhaps this is a direction we need to be thinking in.
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Prof. Sian Kan, at your service.
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Chubaka
Posts: 15
1/4/2017
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PJ wrote:
You all are getting hung up on the word "winter", when really December is when the Earth is farthest from the sun, and also when the lacre falls.
Good Sir, what might You be referring to! Is it possible that no-one here is aware that we
are on a thin disc, where the three world-elephants are holding onto the Neath between
them, bringing the world together at a whim of the great Masters? The Mollusks live on
the Greaturtle and are bubbling and dripping onto the little speck we are as seen from
them!
How are You not ashamed to proclaim such arbitrary un-science which even the Church
down here does not concur with!
...
Ahaha, pardon me.
But, No.
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Addendum: Why, it was a little thoght here of all yours, that may not be wrong in its heart,
though; the nothern winter being the time the Earth is being closest to the Sun, yet why
would it be in December, then, as was now pointed out by Siankan? It would make sense
if it was at the end of winter, when the Bazaar leaves the proximity to the Sun again. May-
be it cries, for it is not allowed to reach out, even if it is this close... so it collects the L__-
stories, to take it in intstead. But this is of course nonsense.
It may or may not have to do with the distance, at all, though.
edited by Chubaka on 1/4/2017
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Raiseth Ascendant
Posts: 27
1/4/2017
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Alright. Then I propose this little tidbit, actually completely unrelated to the issue: what if December is the time of the year the Bazaar fell on Earth?
Well; to be attached to a certain period of time located and indicated by semi-sentient inhabitants of the rock they call Earth and to bit several links below the Chain would seem a tad... sentimental. Still, why not?
Maybe Christmas is something else in this universe. If Judgements are Gods are Suns, then Jesus could be...
Never mind. That is, never my mind boggled quite as much.
Well, that is my last theory. I think.
edited by Raiseth Ascendant on 1/4/2017
edited by Raiseth Ascendant on 1/4/2017
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Desole%20Terrek
Writer, Seeker, Correspondent. Ocassionaly, a good conversationalist.
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Barse
Posts: 706
1/4/2017
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EDIT: As Plynkes pointed out, I confused the Bazaar's arrival with London's Fall: oops! Leaving this here anyway because it's semi-relevant. Lacre is a weird thing with lots of hidden snippets of lore that I am not nearly organised or knowledgable enough to hunt down, but the answers may well be out there.
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Interesting to note that London fell somewhere around early February 1862, judging by the date on this very early piece of advertising artwork:
That's still winter-ish, though!
edited by Barselaar on 1/4/2017
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 The Scorched Sailor, up for most social actions and RP. Not as scary as he looks.
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Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
1/4/2017
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An interesting and creative idea, but I'm pretty sure the Bazaar's appearance on Earth predates Christianity a thousand years or more.
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