babelfishwars
Administrator
Posts: 1152
1/3/2017
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I've copy-pasted the bulk of the Jenny School posts here. Please be aware this is a discussion of Fate Locked Content. And please keep it polite. Thanks!
Note: remember, if a player wishes to post in character, please make this clear in the post, or post in Mr Pages’ Fabularities.
Posted originally by Anne Auclair / http://community.failbettergames.com/viewprofile.aspx?UserID=14332 :
So it seems that Sinning Jenny’s school is largely a scam after all :P
Or, at the very least, it’s an institution designed principally for the benefit of Jenny’s private interests rather than the fulfillment of its stated mission.
I have divided the problems with the school into four categories.
1. Personal Profit
Jenny uses her faculty and students to beg donations for her school and hence herself. She also uses her faculty and students to guard the Parlor of Virtue, a private business, during VIP visits. Jenny obviously benefits politically and financially from these two arrangements. To the extent that Mr Wines is partnered with her, he benefits as well.
2. Jenny’s Friends
There are four preferred students: the Urchin, the Bohemian, the Nun, and the Anarchist. So 50% of the regular students are from groups that Jenny is personally connected with: the Nuns of Abbey Rock and the Bohemians of Veilgarden. Neither group is part of the poor or excluded. There’s no reason the opulently garbed Sisterhood couldn’t hire its own instructors, while the Bohemians are members of the educated middle classes and always seem to have echoes available for wine and honey.
Both groups have already visibly benefited from Jenny’s administration. The Sisterhood’s influence has been clearly enhanced and the Mayor probably gifted them the refurbished Mutton Island lighthouse that was the original site of her school (and how's that for administrative competence - spending money refurbishing a building and then radically redesigning the project). Then there's the Ministry of Public Works, which was explicitly dreamed up by the Mayor in order to provide her Bohemian friends with good jobs. This favoritism is not surprising as both groups fought the hardest for Jenny during the election.
Preferential selection at the Finishing School is but the latest example of this official favoritism. The Nuns get a place where their novices can prepare for intrigues in London. The Bohemians get what amounts to artistic training/rehab. It’s also worth noting that neither of these efforts actually seems to benefit London. After graduation the Nun returns to her isolated island convent and the Bohemian delves right back into feeding her honey addiction. So the schooling the Nun receives principally benefits her order, while with the Bohemian it has no effect at all.
It’s also worth noting that the Nun and the Bohemian both have connections with Mr. Wines and are capable of setting up meetings with him. So Jenny’s allies are also allies of Mr. Wines.
3. Favors for Revolutionaries
Jenny also uses the school to gain influence among the Revolutionaries by providing training to hardened Anarchist terrorists. There is a reason Sinning Jenny is “delighted” when you accept the Veteran Anarchists application. The Veteran Anarchist is no dilettante, like say the Photographer or the Starving Poet. He’s experienced in explosives and a true believer in the Liberation of the Night. Over the course of the term you train him to be better at propaganda and infiltration and upon graduation he vanishes without leaving a forwarding address, no doubt with every intention of putting these new skills to terrible use.
This might explain why Mayor Jenny is not getting any active opposition from the Revolutionary quarter. In player terms she’s using the school to earn Revolutionary favors and renown and then cashing those in. It’s also possible she’s promoting the Revolutionaries in an attempt to weaken the Masters hold on London in order to open up space for her own social reforms. Or perhaps it’s just a ham handed attempt to balance out her furthering of the Masters schemes. Whatever the reason, it’s a very rather dangerous strategy. The Veteran Anarchist is not one of the August’s people, he’s clearly a follower of February or April. It’s fair to say that Jenny will have a fair share of responsibility for every bit of Anarchist violence going forward.
4. Openness to Influence
Although the school’s official purpose is to help the disadvantaged of London, members of the advantaged classes – wealthy children, wealthy surface visitors, and government spies – are perfectly capable of gaining access provided they have an advocate on the inside who has some pull with Jenny. This is partly because Jenny only manages her school part-time and correspondingly gives her staff considerable discretion in the selection of students. A teacher desiring to, say, improve their connections with Society will be incentivized to make places for the children of the rich.
edited by babelfishwars on 1/3/2017
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Mars, God of Fish; Leaning Tower of Fish
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Kaigen
Posts: 530
1/4/2017
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To add to the response to point 4: My memory may be faulty, but I do not remember it being claimed that Jenny's school was for the sole benefit of the disadvantaged (If I am incorrect, please do let me know). Consider the implications, though. In a stratified, largely class-bound society, Jenny's school takes urchin and wealthy alike and trains them together equally. What sort of awareness might this inculcate in wealthy scions? What connections might the poorer students be able to draw upon among their former classmates in order to make their way in the world? The school's willingness to provide a quality education to anyone is arguably its most radical aspect, and the one most likely to encourage broader social change.
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Just a simple doctor with a chess habit. Publisher of The Flit Dispatch.
"One must remember that the impossible is, alas, always possible."
-Jacques Derrida
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aegisaglow
Posts: 202
3/1/2017
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The thread title is a false dichotomy.
She's a sinner. She's a saint. She does not feel ashamed.
I know I wouldn't want it any other way.
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Mx. Aglow. Glazier, hedonist, devil-teaser, Paramount Presence. Pursuing their Heart's Desire.
Ms. Lilian Leith. A lady of proper standing, which seems like an increasingly ludicrous thing to give a rat's ___ about. Known (to some) for her Light Fingers.
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Mr Sables
Posts: 597
1/3/2017
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Anne Auclair wrote:
So it seems that Sinning Jenny’s school is largely a scam after all :P
[...]
I have divided the problems with the school into four categories.
1. Personal Profit
Jenny uses her faculty and students to beg donations for her school and hence herself. She also uses her faculty and students to guard the Parlor of Virtue, a private business, during VIP visits. Jenny obviously benefits politically and financially from these two arrangements. To the extent that Mr Wines is partnered with her, he benefits as well.
How do you think schools are run?
Where do you think money comes from in terms of tuition, food, rents, textbooks, materials, travel, etc.? It's quite normal for Jenny to want and need some form of profit in order to provide a service for these people. How much profit does Jenny actually get? I mean, even headmasters get a wage and some profit for running a school at a large? Was your headmaster a scam artist? Was your school a capitalist beacon of unethical profit-mongering? I think this is stretching things a bit . . . I mean, yes, Jenny benefits, but that's necessary in order to provide for the school. We also don't know how she uses her funds; if the Parlour of Virtue sends money back to the school, it makes sense for the school to protect it in turn.
2. Jenny’s Friends
There are four preferred students: the Urchin, the Bohemian, the Nun, and the Anarchist. So 50% of the regular students are from groups that Jenny is personally connected with: the Nuns of Abbey Rock and the Bohemians of Veilgarden. Neither group is part of the poor or excluded. There’s no reason the opulently garbed Sisterhood couldn’t hire its own instructors, while the Bohemians are members of the educated middle classes and always seem to have echoes available for wine and honey.
[...]
Preferential selection at the Finishing School is but the latest example of this official favoritism. The Nuns get a place where their novices can prepare for intrigues in London. The Bohemians get what amounts to artistic training/rehab. It’s also worth noting that neither of these efforts actually seems to benefit London. After graduation the Nun returns to her isolated island convent and the Bohemian delves right back into feeding her honey addiction. So the schooling the Nun receives principally benefits her order, while with the Bohemian it has no effect at all.
It’s also worth noting that the Nun and the Bohemian both have connections with Mr. Wines and are capable of setting up meetings with him. So Jenny’s allies are also allies of Mr. Wines.
Jenny gets a pool of applicants . . .
If you had a choice between a blatant spy threatening to destabilise society as you know it, and a nun that you worked with and know is a very good person in terms of character -? Pretty sure you'd choose the nun, too. There were eight applicants, if I remember rightly, and four were blatantly unsuitable (whether well-off, or spies, or whatever else) . . . so can you blame Jenny for picking the others? Also, notice she greatly favours the urchin, who is poor and broke . . . seems her priorities are straight to me. This isn't favouritism, as - if you want to argue favouritism - the favourite was clearly the urchin . . . the others were just the better of two evils and more 'deserving'.
How do you know how the school benefits people? What if the nun or Bohemian pass what they learn onto others? Find a better sense of purpose? Eventually change careers down the road or are trying to infiltrate their societies or whatever else -? Look at university graduates. A lot - if not most - go into low-paid or unpaid jobs when leaving, before working their way up . . . is that their universities failing them or being 'benefited' or whatever else, or just a reflection of the poor economy and social mobility of the times?
So they're allies of Mr Wines, too?
Like, seriously, Jenny was trying to separate herself from him, and even if they know him, it doesn't mean they like him enough to have Sunday lunch and trade gossip about their weeks . . . people have connections to all sorts of people, but it doesn't always imply 'ally', and we have enough spies in London (and the Nun is primarily against a specific Master, so I doubt she'll be too chummy with that Masters' pals) to know that not everything is as it seems.
3. Favors for Revolutionaries
Jenny also uses the school to gain influence among the Revolutionaries by providing training to hardened Anarchist terrorists. There is a reason Sinning Jenny is “delighted” when you accept the Veteran Anarchists application. The Veteran Anarchist is no dilettante, like say the Photographer or the Starving Poet. He’s experienced in explosives and a true believer in the Liberation of the Night. Over the course of the term you train him to be better at propaganda and infiltration and upon graduation he vanishes without leaving a forwarding address, no doubt with every intention of putting these new skills to terrible use.
This might explain why Mayor Jenny is not getting any active opposition from the Revolutionary quarter. In player terms she’s using the school to earn Revolutionary favors and renown and then cashing those in. It’s also possible she’s promoting the Revolutionaries in an attempt to weaken the Masters hold on London in order to open up space for her own social reforms. Or perhaps it’s just a ham handed attempt to balance out her furthering of the Masters schemes. Whatever the reason, it’s a very rather dangerous strategy. The Veteran Anarchist is not one of the August’s people, he’s clearly a follower of February or April. It’s fair to say that Jenny will have a fair share of responsibility for every bit of Anarchist violence going forward.
If you admit she's so delighted to have an anarchist . . . isn't that contradictory to her being aligned with the Masters?
I mean, a certain Master was killed by this same group in one destiny, so . . .
You even literally just suggested 'she’s promoting the Revolutionaries in an attempt to weaken the Masters hold on London', and - well - that's at blatant odds with how you always paint her as the Masters' lackey, especially with the above points that you made that she's an ally of Wines and so forth and so forth . . . you're contradicting yourself a lot. You then suggest she could be doing this for the Masters, admitting you have no idea why she took this guy on, but still claim it's because she's evil incarnate and selfish as heck. This point was pretty bizarre.
4. Openness to Influence
Although the school’s official purpose is to help the disadvantaged of London, members of the advantaged classes – wealthy children, wealthy surface visitors, and government spies – are perfectly capable of gaining access provided they have an advocate on the inside who has some pull with Jenny. This is partly because Jenny only manages her school part-time and correspondingly gives her staff considerable discretion in the selection of students. A teacher desiring to, say, improve their connections with Society will be incentivized to make places for the children of the rich.
The key word in the story was 'applicants'.
Jenny can't take on the disadvantaged, if the disadvantaged don't apply (or don't want to join).
Also, it's natural for a headteacher to leave some of his/her work to the deputy heads, other teachers, and other staff (including governors and so forth) . . . do you really expect her to run the school, gather funds, teach, hire teachers personally, and so forth and so forth, on top of being a mayor and businesswoman and other duties? Seriously? All establishments are open to influence. Arguably it's a sign of a good school, because they the students are privy to a wide-range of beliefs/attitudes/opinions.
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Kaigen
Posts: 530
1/6/2017
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I find it interesting that the Bohemian is labelled as affluent on the basis of her vices. This despite the fact that the chief drink of the Bohemian set is Greyfields 1879 (aka the Cheapest Swill in a Bottle) and honey, the former of which can be traded for the latter at between a 2:1 and 1:1 exchange rate. These are not expensive vices. Zailors gamble away jade and glim of equivalent value on a regular basis (to say nothing of their drinking), and they are still somehow deserving. If the only poor who are deserving are those without vice, one will not find many deserving poor in London, I'm afraid.
And if the Bohemian does not immediately find success upon graduation, well, very few artists are lucky enough to be an overnight sensation. Thanks to her training at the school, she knows how to defend herself, and she knows how to attend to every detail necessary to putting on a salon to promote her work. Anything beyond that rests on her own resources and the fickle attention of the public. The fact that she still partakes of honey does not mean she isn't using these skills. A friend of mine self-published a novel and has a book deal for a second, yet he still smokes and drinks on a regular basis.
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Just a simple doctor with a chess habit. Publisher of The Flit Dispatch.
"One must remember that the impossible is, alas, always possible."
-Jacques Derrida
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PSGarak
Posts: 834
1/6/2017
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Anne Auclair wrote:
It's not even clear whether these students are the same people you taught formerly or completely new...
I'm sure we're supposed to perceive them as new students each time. They're shown making progress in their lessons, which their replacements don't have. E.g. each new Urchin has never even heard of a bath before.
Also their descriptions are less specific than Fallen London titles that refer to individuals. If the orphan were someone specific, he would be called "the Malodorous Orphan" or "the Hopeful Orphan" or "the Sympathetic Orphan." Since the orphan is only called "the Orphan," their identity must be generic rather than specific.
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http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/PSGarak
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Passionario
Posts: 777
2/27/2017
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OctaviaCrowe wrote:
No bloody clue why she likes anarchists, though.
Now that I think of it, the groups corresponding to non-Urchin favored students (Revolutionaries, Church and Bohemians) also correspond to the three mayoral candidates. So maybe the mechanical side of the Finishing School was planned in advance even before the election results, and the flavor was written in later. Whichever candidate won, they would eventually launch their particular scheme to allow the players to grind Favours/Connections, with the three candidate factions being given preference.
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Passionario: Profile, Story, Ending
Passion: Profile, Appearance
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Passionario
Posts: 777
2/27/2017
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Anne Auclair wrote:
The real question though is why the Anarchist is a favored student, while the Zailor isn't.
Oh, that one's simple. Jenny is a Mayor of London, not Mayor of the Unterzee. Whatever else the Anarchist may be, he is undoubtedly a Londoner, while to the Zailor, London is merely another exotic island among many.
The real question is why would you prefer the alternative approach, wherein educational establishments would routinely screen the prospective students' political views and mark anyone who is unwilling to toe the ruling party's line as dangerous and unfit to learn?
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Passionario: Profile, Story, Ending
Passion: Profile, Appearance
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Omega8520
Posts: 102
2/27/2017
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You train him to be a better everything (depending on the other students you take). The ones learning revolutionary techniques are the other students in the class with the rev, and there's no proof that they're using them for revolutionary purposes.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Omega8520
A Correspondent of measure and restraint, not-withstanding a tendancy to rush into things.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Menacing%20Seeker
Northwards with Noman. At least they'll have company.
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Diptych
Administrator
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2/27/2017
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The undesirable students are all undesirable because they're wealthy and/or well-connected, and generally not in need of charity. The zailor isn't a lowly deckhand - he's a captain's son, who travels about on voyages of trade and exploration, picking up a not immodest collection of riches along the way.
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Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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Passionario
Posts: 777
2/27/2017
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Anne Auclair wrote:
You train him to be a better terrorist!
That's a very cute slogan, but it doesn't answer my question: why do you believe that education should only be provided to staunch supporters of the incumbent political regime?
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Passionario: Profile, Story, Ending
Passion: Profile, Appearance
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Passionario
Posts: 777
2/27/2017
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The school's services are not reserved for any groups, they are provided to specific individuals on a case-by-case basis, with each class being carefully assembled to ensure diversity of backgrounds and opinions. The Bishop and the Contrarian may only see fields of burning roses, but Jenny pays attention to each unique petal.
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Passionario: Profile, Story, Ending
Passion: Profile, Appearance
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Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
2/27/2017
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Anne Auclair wrote:
It's worth pointing out that if the Mayoral office is a total masquerade used to deceive and pacify the plebs, then Jenny is either a very happy participant in this or among those who have been taken in by it :P
Which applies to all the candidates, including the one you prefer 
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Hotshot Blackburn
Posts: 110
2/27/2017
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Anne Auclair wrote:
What's happening in your city wrote:
The fashion of inviting beggars into luxurious salons, so that the wealthy might better display their compassion, continues to decline after another anarchist ruined a priceless carpet with an excess of bloodletting.
Hmmmm. Isn't our beloved Mayor's wonderful little school training Anarchist terrorists in how to infiltrate the houses of the wealthy?
edited by Anne Auclair on 2/27/2017
I am certain I have no idea what you are talking about. The Mayor's school trains fine upstanding individuals to take an active interest in politics and learned skilled trades highly demanded in today's industrial factory jobs. That the despicable practice of mocking the poor and dispossessed by inviting them into exclusive salons and then parading them as an act of 'charity' is waning cannot be denied, but calling out individuals who are merely aiding in the founding of a knowledgeable, united, strong and well-armed citizenry is really stretching your claim.
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Hotshot Blackburn: Messidor, Aspirant to the Calendar Council. Paramount Presence. Seeker of the Name. A firm believer in kindness, solidarity, and sufficient use of force and firepower.
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Frederick Metzengerstein
Posts: 69
1/5/2017
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It's an interesting question, I think.
On the one hand, only one out of every classroom of three is an urchin, not that education doesn't benefit young people of every social level. I do not think the school predominently teaches the most deserving in Fallen London.
On the other hand, when I taught the urchin, he learnt to bathe and of the benefit of bathing (basic hygiene), more or less managed to write out all the letters of the alphabet (very, very basic literacy), and after his work experience was completed got an apprenticeship with the customary place to stay and a bed (gainful employment, at least for now). Going from itinerant and indigent poor to an apprentice is a substantial increase in class. So the school does good, no doubt about it.
(That was on one playthrough. There may be more storylets revealing more benefits. I'll teach a few more urchins and find out.)
I'm sure that Jenny is corrupt and her school enriches herself and her allies, but this is Fallen London.
As for Jenny and the Masters: reluctant as she is to have ties with them, I did recently receive a huge diamond from an agent of the Bazaar for not undermining their favoured candidate...
edited by Frederick Metzengerstein on 1/5/2017
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DeserterKalak
Posts: 94
1/3/2017
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She still takes in penniless waifs, and there's no evidence to suggest that they are having a hard time getting in, due to places being given away by conniving teachers looking for favours.
Her school is a fine institution. The fact that her students can undertake paid work for her as part their finishing exams doesn't count against her.
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/DeserterKalak
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Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1784
1/6/2017
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I agree. This is the nature of most carousels after all - we are not supposed to think that the same informant gets lost in Dante's Grill 7 times per day, when we go through the Velocipede Squad carousel!
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Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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Estelle Knoht
Posts: 1751
2/27/2017
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Anne Auclair wrote:
You train him to be a better terrorist!
On a successful run, you teach the anarchist that he is an anarchist because of his social ideals (of equality and some such), not because he needed an excuse for chaos and destruction. You also train him on writing mean words instead of bombing better.
The anarchist seems to be attending the Finishing School to learn to be more intellectual and less volatile - on paper, it does sound like a way of pacification. Of course, that doesn't mean they become less dangerous, but it is probably an improvement.
Anne Auclair wrote:
I think the Doyalist explanation for the Anarchist is that the Empress's Shadow called for an Anarchist character. The real question though is why the Anarchist is a favored student, while the Zailor isn't. They could easily have flipped these two, with the Zailor a favored applicant and the Anarchist a risky prospect ('Sinning Jenny frowns. "Goodness, don't let him blow anything up."). They went with the Anarchist as a favored student for a reason and the reason is that Sinning Jenny's School favors them. Why she does this is something of a mystery...but then it's far from the only mystery in the Neath.
That bit with the zailor is indeed quite strange, since the Docks faction are more involved with Jenny's campaign and generally represent the labourers among her target audience.
I guess a possibility is that they had to use a well-traveled zailor instead of just a local docker in order to make the option of Judgement's Egg available for the sake of that story, and then decided that Jenny's less interested in educating people who doesn't plan to stay around in London?
Considering her previous behavior you'd think Jenny would have no objection to milking the Surface Visitor and the Eldest for that sweet sweet tuition fee to feed the others, but eh.
As for the urchins, well, I think teaching futureless children seems pretty on point for the school regardless of who is in charge.
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Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady.
I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
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Omega8520
Posts: 102
3/2/2017
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Anne Auclair wrote:
Post lengthy remarks rebutting me so I can post even lengthier arguments in response.
So you're arguing purely for the sake of arguing? That's a bit disingenuous, isn't it?
edited by Omega8520 on 3/2/2017
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Omega8520
A Correspondent of measure and restraint, not-withstanding a tendancy to rush into things.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Menacing%20Seeker
Northwards with Noman. At least they'll have company.
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maleclypse
Posts: 259
3/3/2017
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So my understanding from the writers (I may have imagined this) was that anyone who won would only win for one year. My interpretation from reading Lydia's companion storylet is that Jenny is done as Mayor soon and will just be running her school which, whatever you may think of it does bring literacy and useable (spy) skills to it's students whomever they may be. Or is next year meant as her being brought back to run again in 2018? I got the impression that the writers wanted to use this to write new stories and that it would be multiple years if ever before any candidate who wins will be allowed to run again? My biggest concern right now regarding the Mayor's office is that I worry that the since the favors conversion hasn't finished yet the Mayor's card will give a bunch of connected but basically be worthless because there aren't any favors for the factions that back whatever new Mayor London gets. She built a school she advanced the plot she served her purpose. Now we get to see some other figure of London.
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Maintaining a controlling interest in my soul requires a pretty constant negotiation between the various shareholder interests. Thankfully the Fingerkings 23% control makes a pretty good foil to unite the other factions enough to get to 51%.
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
3/10/2017
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Grenem wrote:
I'm not Anne, but this is what I want:
Not vote for her next year, not complain that she isn't in the election next year, not unfavorably compare the new batch to her...
I wouldn't actually mind people unfavorably comparing future candidates to Jenny :P First, that's one thing people do during elections - compare current politicians to past politicians. Second, she's London's first mayor, so it's only fair that she have some sort of legacy and all future candidates be compared to her. I personally hope we hear a bit more about that Office of Public Works she started. Like, will future Mayors fire the artists and hire different people?
Also it would be nice if the Mayors, when they left office, left a sort of physical legacy that players could view via future Mayoral influence cards. So you'd have 1. Support the Mayor, 2. Plot Against the Mayor, 3. Investigate the Mayor, and 4. Remember London's Previous Mayors. Option 4 would accumulate more text as the elections added up.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Teaspoon
Posts: 866
3/2/2017
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Y'know, there's a very good bit in Douglas Adams' "Mostly Harmless" in which, after a journalist eviscerates the inanity of astrology, the astrologer she was interviewing comments “So when you got so, I don’t know, so emotionally focused on stars and planets this morning, I began to think, she’s not angry about astrology, she really is angry and unhappy about actual stars and planets."
It came to mind is all.
(If you're invested in anti-Jenny arguments because it's your form of RP, fine, if it's a proxy for RL stuff, fine, and in fact it's none of my business why you're doing this, but you do seem to be very angry. Is being this angry fun for you? Given why we're all here: for a game, which is fun.)
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Truth lies at the bottom of a well.
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Alt%20Ern
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Teaspoon
Posts: 866
2/27/2017
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In a city where bloodshed is on much the same level as a cutting snub, why get so worked up? Violence is a regular part of London's social structure.
Sure, it's not great, but the soul trade is dubious, the Rubbery racism is dubious, the regular fights at the Docks are dubious...there's a lot of dubious stuff going on. These things happen.
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Truth lies at the bottom of a well.
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Alt%20Ern
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Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
1/6/2017
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Those issues could just be a case of gameplay/story segregation though. The writers clearly wanted to give us a variety of different students and personalities to work with in this particular storylet, so they gave us applicants from all walks of life to mix and match for our class. Possibly, this isn't what a typical class at Jenny's school looks like, just what our character's class happens to look like in the interest of making the mechanics more interesting.
Storywise, perhaps there was simply a particularly wacky batch of candidates that week, and normally the classes at packed full of needy urchins. Or maybe other teachers got the regular candidates and the player's character wanted to look at the more atypical candidates in the interest of having a more diverse/useful class to carry out their mission.
Or maybe Jenny's an a-hole. I don't doubt that it is very possible :P
edited by Kukapetal on 1/6/2017
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Amalgamate
Posts: 435
1/5/2017
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Yeah, I played through the empress' shadow story and it seemed that the school was legit. You taught orphans, and it was stated that that was Jenny's preferred pupil. You could also teach various other people who clearly could use the education. If the school was a scam, we'll need to wait for another story to see, because in this one it seemed like the school was legit.
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http://www.fallenlondon.com/Profile/amalgamate
Social invitations of all kinds welcome, especially games of chess and deadly sparring!
Also happy to help with nightmares, send sips of Cider, and plant battle.
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Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1784
1/5/2017
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Ambiguity is one of Jenny's stated characteristics. She is sinner and saint both - we know that.
As for the school, I would say that if you are a passionate idealist it would fall short of your expectations, but if you are someone in need, such as the urchin or the anarchist or even the bohemian, you would be very glad for the opportunity. Does it serve her own purposes too? Undoubtedly, but it does not make it less worthy to those helped.
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Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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Richard Gordon Lethbridge-Stewart
Posts: 30
1/5/2017
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I had the feeling that jenny wanted to defend dockers and zailors against the abuse of the masters against them. Nevertheless, the zailor is among the "bad" applicants.
Has someone an explanation ?
There are high chances I only missed one bit of information, but it would be nice to know which one.
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" All shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well". *
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
1/5/2017
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Ironically the zailor is arguably the one who puts his education to the greatest effect. He had trouble interacting with London society because of his alienating experiences at zee. Re-familiarized, he's able to persuade the well-to-do to contribute funds for an exploratory journey into the far east. But instead of favoring the zailors, who have a real need and use for a finishing education, Jenny prefers to help self-isolating nuns and honey mazed bohemians :P There's a reason for this and it's not because the nun and bohemian are better people than the zailor.
The fact that the school sometimes teaches urchins does not mean it's not principally self-interested in design or intent. The Tweed Courthouse is still being used today, even though Boss Tweed built it principally to line his pockets and help his friends. Another example, a corrupt police force is better than no police force as it will enforce some law, but this fact does not negate said police force's corruption. Similarly, a school principally designed to benefit its headmistress's interests can do some good, but this does not negate the fact that said school mainly helps Jenny politically and financially.
And the Anarchist cannot be classed among the deserving. He's an unrepentant terrorist who wants to snuff out all light. If you let him put his finishing education to good use with the Shadow he promptly indoctrinates her in the Liberation of the Night. Presumably he does similar recruitment among London's upper class. The only explanation for him being classified among the deserving is that it serves some political purpose.
edited by Anne Auclair on 1/5/2017
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Pumpkinhead
Posts: 516
2/27/2017
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Anne Auclair wrote:
For instance: the Vake might be a murderous monster that regularly tortures, kills and eats people, but there's lots of torture, murder and cannibalism in the Neath. So what's the big deal about the Vake? These things happen.
Ah, the Vake. Yes, perhaps we should do something about the Vake. A reckoning is past due, after all...
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McGunn/Bsymstad is on the slow boat, waiting to see if he can find out what death is. (I'm done with London for now. Thanks for everything!)
Amanda Albright is a *spoiler* now, like she always wanted.
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Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
2/27/2017
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Anne Auclair wrote:
For instance: the Vake might be a murderous monster that regularly tortures, kills and eats people, but there's lots of torture, murder and cannibalism in the Neath. So what's the big deal about the Vake? These things happen.
Flesh-Stick: BECAUSE OF MY SNUFFER!!! BAWWWWWWWW!!!!!!
THEN AGAIN, JENNY HASN'T DONE ANYTHING ABOUT THE VAKE YET EITHER.
I WANT MY VOTE BACK.
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Jolanda Swan
Posts: 1784
1/9/2017
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Some bohemians were exactly that - others came from the lower classes to begin with. Think artists' models, or creators too avant-garde to actually sell a lot, or people who prefered travelling instead of trying to do PR. In such cases the hedonistic lifestyle could also be solace against the harshness of life. Perhaps the finishing school can teach them how to take more advantage of their gifts. Think of them trying to become Picasso instead of Modigliani.
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Lover of all things beautiful, secret admirer of ugly truths, fond of the Parabola Sun... and always delighted to role play.
http://fallenlondon.com/profile/Jolanda%20Swan
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
2/20/2017
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Her mayorship will end, yes, but presumably the school will continue its operations, and, perhaps, continue to receive seasonal updates?
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Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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OctaviaCrowe
Posts: 137
2/20/2017
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I could argue that educating artists and poets is to the benefit of society, enriching Londons frankly ossified Victorian culture. Art is, after all, a vehicle for social change, and Jenny pretty clearly wants to change the landscape of London culture.
No bloody clue why she likes anarchists, though.
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Ms. Octavia Crowe, the Hellfaring Mystic, former keeper of the Books of Brass. The Seeking... the Name... it has devoured... everything.
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Grenem
Posts: 2067
3/2/2017
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Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook wrote:
Anne, what do you want us to do with this information? Impeach Jenny? Execute her? Have everyone who voted for her branded with a "J" to mark them for evermore as fools and traitors?
edited by Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook on 3/2/2017
I'm not Anne, but this is what I want:
Not vote for her next year, not complain that she isn't in the election next year, not unfavorably compare the new batch to her. Don't go gallivanting after the next bohemian who promises to improve the plight of the poor just because they make kinder promises than their peers.
Ideally, have next election be closer than this one, but then, I'm a dreamer. That is too much to ask for.
--
Married!:http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/takuza
I will accept all social actions that do not consume free evenings- and i will provide patronage to anyone who requests it, though it will be split between all requesters.
On psudeo-hiatus. Will be inactive and active and fluctuate without warning.
Grinding Favors without cards: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic22266-storylet-favors-grinding.aspx
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Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
2/27/2017
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(he was in love with the Vake's henchman because he's stupid :P )
In all seriousness though, the Mayor position was always just a useless figurehead position. I doubt the Masters would have let any of the three candidates bring about any meaningful social change, so I'm not sure the blame can be laid completely at Jenny's feet.
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Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
2/27/2017
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I think so, yes. The Masters are the absolute rulers of the city, so they're the ones with the say in what does or doesn't happen. The mayor won't be allowed to pursue any agendas that aren't in their favor, and any agendas that ARE in their favor are something they are more than capable of implementing without a mayor's help or permission. The position of mayor is there to placate the masses by giving them the illusion that they actually have a say in how their city is governed.
edited by Kukapetal on 2/27/2017
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
2/27/2017
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Well, if you don't like Jenny, there'll be another election in a few months, and you can vote in a new figurehead.
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Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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Rasvarmo
Posts: 54
2/28/2017
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I see that the latest series of exceptional stories is called the "Season of Stones" and apparently involves upset and unrest among London's less-privileged citizens. I'm wondering how Sinning Jenny relates to this? She campaigned on a platform of improving the lots of London's unfortunates, and to me it seemed she was fulfilling her promises. Is this a sign that she is not succeeding? Or does this involve a different group of unfortunates that she is unable to help?
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Rasvarmo - a lady of distinction and ambition. Open to social exchanges.
"No records. No writings. Words can be treacherous. If a story is important, it will be remembered."
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Estelle Knoht
Posts: 1751
3/1/2017
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Rasvarmo wrote:
I see that the latest series of exceptional stories is called the "Season of Stones" and apparently involves upset and unrest among London's less-privileged citizens. I'm wondering how Sinning Jenny relates to this? She campaigned on a platform of improving the lots of London's unfortunates, and to me it seemed she was fulfilling her promises. Is this a sign that she is not succeeding? Or does this involve a different group of unfortunates that she is unable to help?
It involves a group of unfortunates that no mayors can ever help because the Season of Stones can occur at anytime of a player's choice/payment, independent of what mayor is in charge and who they are helping.
That said, currently the first group of unfortunates are Clay Men, which none of the candidates expressed much of a desire to help, and Jenny really didn't address it either, so if you are looking at the Season with Jenny's reign in mind, that's one strike on Jenny, or half a strike since no mayor can anticipate a cray cray clay mad scientist switching limbs that's been on the job before Election is a thing.
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Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady.
I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
3/2/2017
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Anne, what do you want us to do with this information? Impeach Jenny? Execute her? Have everyone who voted for her branded with a "J" to mark them for evermore as fools and traitors?
edited by Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook on 3/2/2017
--
Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
3/29/2017
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Estelle Knoht wrote:
If nothing else, I think Anne can roleplay as the Jovial Contrarian perfectly and would like to remind people not to get too frustrated over this and try to enjoy the debate.
I'm pretty sure I've mentioned in the past that I think the writers have made the Mayoral storyline purposely ambiguous, leaving it to the reader to determine what exactly is going on. I just choose to interpret the evidence as negatively as possible, because why not? But I could easily make the opposite argument. However, given the overall ambiguity, I don't think either the positive or negative view is complete. But I also don't think we'd get the full feel for the story by starting with a search for the golden mean or whatever. So this calls for bare knuckle political debate.
Also, thanks for the compliment ^^
edited by Anne Auclair on 3/29/2017
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Estelle Knoht
Posts: 1751
3/13/2017
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If nothing else, I think Anne can roleplay as the Jovial Contrarian perfectly and would like to remind people not to get too frustrated over this and try to enjoy the debate.
But yes, it is a neat prospect to have some reminders of previous mayors! And Jenny probably won't be running again, if Lydia's sweet talking is any indication.
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Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady.
I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
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Mordaine Barimen
Posts: 670
3/1/2017
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The only one of the three to have ever spoken on the Clay Condition would be the Jovial Contrarian, and, well, he will speak up for them and condemn them according to whatever will stir up the most discord in a given crowd. Like every other matter, he sees their welfare only in terms of what will amuse him the most at the moment.
--
I'm sorry, but due to policy clarifications, I will no longer be giving detailed mechanics advice on the forums.
If you still need help, try the IRC channel.
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Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
3/1/2017
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By the same token, if the possibility exists that the Contrarian is neither a dupe nor an accomplice of a tyrannical government and is instead using their figurehead mayor position to advance a positive agenda of his own, then the same possibility applies to the other candidates as well, including Jenny.
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Shadowcthuhlu
Posts: 1557
2/27/2017
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That's why you should vote for Dirae Erinyes - who will kill a vake and anything else in order to secure your vote!
Too bad the Masters keep turning down my paperwork. . .
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Dirae%20Erinyes. Closed to calling cards, but open for all other social action. I also love to roleplay.
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PSGarak
Posts: 834
3/2/2017
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Anne Auclair wrote:
Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook wrote:
Anne, what do you want us to do with this information? Impeach Jenny? Execute her? Have everyone who voted for her branded for evermore as fools and traitors?
Post lengthy remarks rebutting me so I can post even lengthier arguments in response.
Can I get a brand anyways? I think this "J" thing could be next season's fashion.
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http://fallenlondon.com/Profile/PSGarak
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Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
3/2/2017
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*rips her hair out in frustration, admits defeat and pours herself a glass of wine*
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
2/28/2017
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I just realized something. The School will probably have a special card during the elections festival that will allow us to gauge student political opinions regarding the various candidates.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
3/2/2017
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Jenny's platform and Jenny's agenda may well be two very different things, same as any of the candidates.
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
3/2/2017
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Kukapetal wrote:
Jenny's platform and Jenny's agenda may well be two very different things, same as any of the candidates.
Her public platform, her associations and her private interests were on full display during the election, same as the other two candidates. Jenny's whole candidacy was based on her supposed ability to deliver tangible goods to London's less fortunate (the public promises) and her friends (the private promises). So if the office of Mayor really is a useless just for show figurehead, "there to placate the masses by giving them the illusion that they actually have a say in how their city is governed," then Jenny is a completely useless figurehead who merely props up said illusion, wittingly or not.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Teaspoon
Posts: 866
2/27/2017
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So?
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Truth lies at the bottom of a well.
https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Alt%20Ern
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Prospero Rune
Posts: 68
2/20/2017
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Aren't Jenny's days as mayor numbered? I thought there would be another mayoral election soon, before the Zee Festival.
edited by Aardent Lore on 2/20/2017
--
Prospero Rune.
Alice Tintin-An Extraordinary Mind.
Claude Frollo-A Shattering Force.
Drake Maijstral-An Invisible Eminence.
Aardent Lore (Gone North).
Surface business will draw us away from FL for an undetermined period of time. Forgive us if we cannot respond to social requests in a timely manner.
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Pumpkinhead
Posts: 516
2/27/2017
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Kukapetal wrote:
Anne Auclair wrote:
For instance: the Vake might be a murderous monster that regularly tortures, kills and eats people, but there's lots of torture, murder and cannibalism in the Neath. So what's the big deal about the Vake? These things happen.
Flesh-Stick: BECAUSE OF MY SNUFFER!!! BAWWWWWWWW!!!!!!
THEN AGAIN, JENNY HASN'T DONE ANYTHING ABOUT THE VAKE YET EITHER.
I WANT MY VOTE BACK.
If you want someone who will do something about the Vake, perhaps you should look into the matter of Mr. Eaten? Can we count on your vote for him next election?
--
McGunn/Bsymstad is on the slow boat, waiting to see if he can find out what death is. (I'm done with London for now. Thanks for everything!)
Amanda Albright is a *spoiler* now, like she always wanted.
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Anne Auclair
Posts: 2215
2/27/2017
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Estelle Knoht wrote:
I guess a possibility is that they had to use a well-traveled zailor instead of just a local docker in order to make the option of Judgement's Egg available for the sake of that story, and then decided that Jenny's less interested in educating people who doesn't plan to stay around in London?
Perhaps. But the Zailor's pathological inability to interact with London Society, caused by prolonged isolation at Zee, is exactly the sort of thing that Jenny's School was designed to alleviate. Also, Zailors live dangerous lives and could always use some self-defense lessons. In contrast, the Eldest Daughter is simply bored, the Surface Visitor merely ignorant, and the Foreign Officer too wrapped up in her job.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Anne%20Auclair
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Kukapetal
Posts: 1449
1/6/2017
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That's definitely a good point. I forgot that you can still teach at the school, because I haven't done it since the end of the seasonal story. If those are the students who are always available, then you're right that they probably are representative of the types of people who usually apply there.
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Shadowcthuhlu
Posts: 1557
1/6/2017
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Take my words with many grains of salt, while I have seen much, I have also forgotten much.
One thing that stands out about the bohemian is that you teach her self-defense. Maybe the reason they are giving priority is because there one of the more vulnerable populations to the more physical monsters of the neath?
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https://www.fallenlondon.com/profile/Dirae%20Erinyes. Closed to calling cards, but open for all other social action. I also love to roleplay.
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suinicide
Posts: 2409
1/5/2017
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He does start fights if you take him in, so probably because of that. Can't have the school's reputation immediately crushed
edited by suinicide on 1/5/2017
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/sunnytime
A gentleman seeking the liberation of knowledge, with a penchant for violence.
RIP suinicide, stuck in a well. Still has it under control.
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